Flying ruined warmode

[Fenzha]

That must be why Classic PvP servers are filled to the brim, because everyone hates world PvP.

My experience on Retail with warmode was 90% people only there for the bonus and nothing but people camping flight points or large groups roaming round killing solos.

Classic world pvp was fine with no incentives. You came across someone, you fought and then you carried on.
As soon as the honor system came in with its rank/gear incentives coming, the game became a giant shitshow with nothing but people camping flight points or large groups roaming around killing low lvl/solos.

Bgs are introduced giving people a place to focus their efforts and that same day world pvp mostly dropped back to being fighting the occasional person you come across and moving on.

Classic world pvp works because it isnt forced or incentivized heavily so that players who dont like it can stay pve and not feel forced to do it.

[Yarathir]

"Flying ruined warmode"


And?

Right?

Honestly, if you need to get rid of features and make sure people are locked in place in order for World PvP to be healthy and alive, then perhaps World PvP is already on its death bed to begin with.

[Jikate-Stormrage]

Also wanted to add:

You try to correlate WM currently with the PvP phase of Classic; but that isn’t as straight forward as you think.

Back in Vanilla WPvP was organic. It wasn’t huge zergfests. The players were spread out, so you may encounter (and fight) the same person multiple times in the same day. Eventually you either decided they got beat enough, or they left; both of you moving on. Overall it felt more organic in nature. Two combatants encountering each other on a road. There were larger battles near raids, but players simply waited to move out all together to properly meet the resistance.

In current Classic, everyone has already gotten to max level. There were fights along the way, but no a huge number. But now? The raids have come and gone, and PvP is now THE content available for now. So yeah, go figure that PvP is happening.

Crazy part is, the main difference isn’t flying or the lack of. It’s the expectations. This IS the content available. Players knew this going in. So many flocked to PvP servers knowing there would be large gaps in other content. Knowing they would partake or have to log out until a new raid was released months later. Not difficult to understand their choice. I would make the same choice.

Hell, I PvPed a great deal in Vanilla. Honestly it just plain felt better back then. Too many changes since have made it feel less so. If anything, look at how incentivized WPvP is in retail; then look at the incentives in Classic. You might find the real differences there. Classic PvP is currently more popular because it feels better. It’s more organic. Not because of no flying.

[Stelio Kontos]

Adding PVP to WoW was a bigger mistake than adding flying was.

[Tradu]

Adding PVP to WoW was a bigger mistake than adding flying was.

Not wrong. There's other games that do it much better. There was even Bloodline Champions which tried to mimic WoW's best PvP format(3v3) and it died because of lack of interest. Maybe if people tried those actual PvP games instead of trying to force WoW PvP to work, those other games would do better(and WoW would be better too)

[Seranthor]

Adding PVP to WoW was a bigger mistake than adding flying was.

I cant disagree here either.

[Jikate-Stormrage]

Not wrong. There's other games that do it much better. There was even Bloodline Champions which tried to mimic WoW's best PvP format(3v3) and it died because of lack of interest. Maybe if people tried those actual PvP games instead of trying to force WoW PvP to work, those other games would do better(and WoW would be better too)

I’ve long felt that the best way for Blizzard to handle PvP is to have PvP realms that function solely on PvP. Next to no PvE content available on those servers.

You would start at level 1, and head to the gladiator arena in your factions city. To level, you would fight your way through single, small team, and mass battles gaining experience instead of honor (with similar totals as current retail).

You would travel to other cities/factions and have world objectives to fight over. But no instances or raids.

These servers would be separate from the other pool (just like tournament realms). No crossover, no character transfers and no boosts.

A WoW license would give the player access to both pools or realms. Each could be balanced around themselves instead of in spite of each other.

At least thats how I feel they should have been handled.

[Vinzora]

I see no problem here. Why does it matter if wpvp happens or doesn't? Let those who want to avoid engaging in it avoid engaging in it.

Because world pvp is actual gameplay content and is meant to happen in warmode. Just flying over and skipping everything including world pvp isn't. Warmode feels bland ever since flying was unlocked. It may as well just be a single player game since the world is empty.

[Seranthor]

Because world pvp is actual gameplay content and is meant to happen in warmode. Just flying over and skipping everything including world pvp isn't. Warmode feels bland ever since flying was unlocked.

And there's a solution for that 'blandness'... but you refuse to avail yourself of that. Sounds very much like a problem of your own creation. What do you suppose would happen if there was no incentive at all for WM? What then?

[Trend]

I don't want to feel forced to play a 15 yr old game just to experience the true world PvP. Do you think flying in warmode increases or reduces world PvP?

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but people have avoided wPvP in WoW that carried personal risk since 2004. What you are describing is a symptom, not a cause.

[Kyphael]

Ideally, this is what flying in WoW should be like.



Just a thousand other players and NPC's and flying machines shooting at each other, and you can get shot down according to RNG.

I don't even want to be able to distinguish friend from foe, just rng. That'll have people on ground mounts appreciating the landscape pretty quickly.

[Linuriel]

But the people indulging it for the bonus aren't there because they actually find wm enjoyable. That's the point. It's attempting to coerce people who don't enjoy in an activity to participate for the enjoyment of those that do like said activity. Nah. Leave it to be as naturally successful or unsuccessful as it would be without incentives.

And you think when literally no one participates in warmode, then it would be a success?

What is your solution here?

You people can only complain, but you never have a solution.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, so it's a failed experiment that relies on people who don't want to participate participating anyway because of the rewards. Just like so many current systems.

So what is your solution.

[Jikate-Stormrage]

Because world pvp is actual gameplay content and is meant to happen in warmode. Just flying over and skipping everything including world pvp isn't. Warmode feels bland ever since flying was unlocked. It may as well just be a single player game since the world is empty.

I beg to differ. You seem to not enjoy flying; and that’s perfectly fine. But flying is no less content than WPvP. People have quite literally spent months working on obtaining flying. It’s the same as finally achieving BIS raid gear a few expansions back; a long term goal you work towards. CONTENT.

WPvP is also content, although it has by and large existed as a player driven feature. Blizzard has attempted a few times to system-ize it; but has generally failed. As early as BC players could fight over nodes in the world to gain zone wide buffs for a few hours. Utterly failed. Wintergrasp however was really good, but suffered from latency issues and bugs. But ultimately a success. They tried to recreate that in ashran (assram) but it was horrible until very late expansion. In legion they created WQs around towers, which was fine and worked out alright. The main problem I had with it was the PvP levels. It felt like a thrown together system and it was. It got further devalued with kill trading in Darkshore with ppl getting rank 500 in just a few days (when it should literally take anyone doing it the way it was designed at least a year). Did Blizzard ban them? Did Blizzard reset their levels? Did Blizzard take back the rewards? No to all of those.

But that was where warbands truly took flight. A souring precursor to WM. If it weren’t for heavily incentivizing players to turn it on, it would have been dead on arrival.

Main points: if you have a problem with PvP in general, I completely agree. PvP is still an after thought in the developers minds.

But WPvP is not the box you should stand on. WPvP has always been a reflection of the player base and NOT Blizzard.

It is the ever changing systems of Blizzard that killed WPvP. Such as adding arenas, rated battleground (because they had to incentivize these, and players flock to incentives).

Every expansion includes class changes and MAYBE a new battleground (rare) or arena map. That’s about it for you all. There it is. They even stretched the legion PvP level system and added a few more cosmetic rewards (and I do mean only a few).

So in reality, Blizzard views PvPers as second rate citizens who must play PvE if they hope to have meaningful content and progression. Otherwise, if you don’t arena, you just collect your easy gear and do nothing.

The writing is on the wall my friend, Blizzard is at their wits end when it comes to PvP. Their ideas are as stale as a can of pringles opened two months ago. Hell, let’s be honest. The ONLY reason they put any effort into incentivizing WPvP this expansion is because this expansion was their “phone a friend”... it was THE war expansion. Congrats on believing they would deliver quality PvP content. Your $60+ was appreciated.

[Vakna]

I agree with you that some people like to complain about minor issues, but flying in warmode isn't trivial. It completely changes the game. It seems counter-intuitive to have it in warmode because it reduces world PvP by at least 90%.

I'm not sure where you got that statistic from, but I'm always seeing some form of PvP going on in Warmode. If it truly is reduced by 90% then I imagine before flying there was fights going on across literally every square inch of the zone, that must have been madness not being able to run 10 yards without seeing a fight.

[BeepBoo]

And you think when literally no one participates in warmode, then it would be a success?

I don't want it to be a success. I have 0 stake in the race. It could continue to exist (without rewards) or die. I don't care. The only people who wish the reality matched their desires (when it clearly doesn't, because no one or next to no one would use WM without rewards) are people who WANT world pvp. They need to accept they're such a small minority that it's literally not worth having it in the game, because you can't build a successful system the way they want without obligating people who don't want to do it.

[Relapses]

Ideally, this is what flying in WoW should be like.



Just a thousand other players and NPC's and flying machines shooting at each other, and you can get shot down according to RNG.

I don't even want to be able to distinguish friend from foe, just rng. That'll have people on ground mounts appreciating the landscape pretty quickly.

I see your epilepsy-inducing gif and raise you the last half of me!me!me!

[Tradu]

And you think when literally no one participates in warmode, then it would be a success?

What is your solution here?

You people can only complain, but you never have a solution.

- - - Updated - - -



So what is your solution.

Let it die. Either get rid of it or let the couple of people who like it play it.

[Vinzora]

I'm glad that those of you who want flying to stay in warmode are revealing your true colors by saying you're glad that flying kills world PvP, which goes against the spirit of warmode completely. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wants world PvP to be a success. You clearly hate the game and just see it as a chore which is why you want your teleport skip button to stay in the game.

[Minikin]

Warmode used to be so active in BFA with skirmishes and group wars taking place everywhere, but then it all disappeared the day flying came out. Why? Because all players now just zoom around in invincible mode in the sky from point A to point B and only land for objectives before taking off again. This really destroys the essence of world PvP in warmode. I guess pleasing the farmers who see the world as an obstacle they'd rather bypass to get their WQ chores done asap is worth destroying the immersion and joy of world PvP? I'm not sure. Also I had so much fun with the non-stop world PvP during the first month of Classic. That wouldn't be possible with flying. I really wish they would just remove flying from warmode.

"I want more WPVP remove Flying!"
"I dont want to play classic to engage in WPVP! Make it happen in retail! Change the game for me!"
"I most probably just go about ganking people in raids and call it WPVP!"


Stop your weeping. Realize that you are in the minority and either go with the solution you already got (Classic) or just continue posting what sounds like a 2year old.

[clevin]

And you think when literally no one participates in warmode, then it would be a success?

What is your solution here?

You people can only complain, but you never have a solution.

- - - Updated - - -



So what is your solution.

Not sure about them but my solution would be this - Warmode has no other perks aside from being a PVP mode, exactly like /pvp was on PVE servers. Turn it on, you can be targeted by others who have it on. Turn it off and wait 5 mins without PVPing and you're in non-Warmode. Toggleable from anywhere, none of the "go to a given capital city" BS. When Warmode is on, you cannot fly.

Done. For the people who want to PVP they can. It's annoying because you're at a 1 to 5 disadvantage or you just want to quest? Turn it off.

The problem is that instead of modeling it after the /pvp flag on PVE servers, they loaded all this other crap onto it with PVP skills, XP bonuses, etc. All that did was entice people who aren't really into PVP into turning it on.

And to anticipate the But then no one would participate - that's up to the community. If no one really wants to do wpvp, that should tell everyone something.