[UK] General Election 2019

[[Apok]]

If you think there reading the sun for political news I think your suffering from intelligence bias. There not interested at all in politics, there after the boobs and the sports section.

The start and end of there politics is when something randomly floats across there feed or convorsation shared by some one the know and they giver the 2cent on it and then get another pint, we both know that.

The extent of the media's influance on the working class is greatly overstated. Word of mouth is still very much king even if its in WhatsApp groups now.

One could say thats nought but opinion really, but thats the wonder of debate.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I didn't vote nor hae ever voted tory so your kinda barking up the wrong tree with what you said there. Dribbles should be along at some point, likely to gloat or something if you want to send it to him.

You are the one defending the people that voted Tory against their own interest. You are also the one stating with certainty that the media can't influence anything, while spouting multiple of their baseless talking points they've rammed home in the last couple of years. You are the one talking about how Labour have to change to get those votes back, even though you aren't really clear about how they should change. Except "be a bit more Tory". I'm talking to you because of your posts. I'll deal with dribbles in due course.

[Monster Hunter]

You are the one defending the people that voted Tory against their own interest. You are also the one stating with certainty that the media can't influence anything, while spouting multiple of their baseless talking points they've rammed home in the last couple of years. You are the one talking about how Labour have to change to get those votes back, even though you aren't really clear about how they should change. Except "be a bit more Tory". I'm talking to you because of your posts. I'll deal with dribbles in due course.

So ti's the old defence is support chestnut?

So a lawyer defending a murderer supports murder?

[JohnBrown1917]

Who knew it was the boomers all along?

So you think Labour can win elections without changing?

If those changes involve turning back to the blair days, its pointless. Policy over power.

[tehealadin]

Yer nae talking pish.

Gonnay no dae that.

Eh? You aren't talking pish, going to not do that....so don't not talk pish, therefore you are saying "talk pish". Eh?

[LeGin Tufnel]

Fuck this leftist navel-gazing.

Can we stop passing this off as some great triumph of democratic legitimacy, please, and concentrate on the numbers:


- UK population ~ 66m

- 47,587,254 turnout

- Total votes for Conservatives = 13,966,565

- Total votes for Labour = 10,269,076

- Total votes for Lib Dems = 3,696,423

- Total votes for Greens = 835,579

- Votes per Tory seat (365) = 38,265

- Votes per Labour seat (202) = 50,837

- Votes per Lib Dem seat (11) = 336,038

- Votes per Green seat (1) = 835,579


Conclusions:

- BJ and the Tories will implement the result of a 51.9% - 48.1% referendum on the basis that less people who voted for Remain have voted for the Tories in this election. They will claim this is legitimate.

- Fuck FPTP. This is not legitimate.

- This country is truly fucked, and I will be delighted - delighted - when it all goes to shit.

Cue usual suspects saying everything will be ok, and it’s not nice to be angry or a bad loser. England will still be a nice to place a live!!! Happy, smiley face

[JohnBrown1917]

What use is policy if you never have power to affect it?

What use is power if you only use it to make the country worse/austerity/war crimes?
You try to gain power without voting in a party leadership that is opposed to you, thats how.

[Huehuecoyotl]

So ti's the old defence is support chestnut?

So a lawyer defending a murderer supports murder?

You aren't a lawyer. You aren't a political commentator. You are just a random person that's decided to defend people that have voted for the Tories because they've swallowed media lies. If a lawyer defends a murderer, that's one thing. If a lawyer defends the concept of being allowed to murder, I'd start to question whether he should be allowed to practice.

Spectacularly failed analogy though. I didn't think it was possible to miss that badly.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Awesome, you will never get to enact your policy and improve lives, but you have your integrity! Congrats.

Congrats, you have the power to enact a slightly milder version of the same policies as your opponents. Talk me through what difference that's going to make? Apart from leaving a generation of people believing they don't have a party that represents them, of course.

[JohnBrown1917]

So the UK under a Third Way Labour is worse off than the UK under Tories?

No meaningfull difference, aside from slowing down the rot.

[mojojojo202]

What use is policy if you never have power to affect it?

What's the point in power if you don't intend on doing anything with it?

[Huehuecoyotl]

So the UK under a Third Way Labour is worse off than the UK under Tories?

Third Way Labour lost voters every election they went into. And what change they managed was so slow it would have taken centuries to unpick the damage of the previous 18 years of Tory rule, not that they made much effort.

Any party that allows a slimeball like Mandelson anywhere near the levers of power can't call itself the party of the working class.

[Monster Hunter]

You aren't a lawyer. You aren't a political commentator. You are just a random person that's decided to defend people that have voted for the Tories because they've swallowed media lies. If a lawyer defends a murderer, that's one thing. If a lawyer defends the concept of being allowed to murder, I'd start to question whether he should be allowed to practice.

Spectacularly failed analogy though. I didn't think it was possible to miss that badly.

It's a perfectly sucicant analogy because I'm defending the people not the torys.

But your too blinded by anger and arrogance to even see which one of your feet your shooting off. Do you even want to win elections?

Because from my view it looks like you care more about being able to be pissy at people on the Internet than you do about getting rid of the Conservatives.

You sit there at your desk, shout profanity's at people, call them every abalist slur under then sun whilst some how calling your self left wing probly because it was cool in uni to call your self that, head of the to the voting booth only to some how loose the election, get your self confused, blame every one else but your own camp and then do it all over again...... Its long now gone beyond frustrating, the behaviour of you so called socialist left wing has has reached a level of pathetic that makes us snowflake liberals look down right grown up. I say so called because for left wing supporters you seem damn set on sabotaging any and every chance we get to at least get power even if it isn't on your terms.

[[Apok]]

Eh? You aren't talking pish, going to not do that....so don't not talk pish, therefore you are saying "talk pish". Eh?

More like you're talking sense, we don't do that here.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Cool, because if you want a majority, you cannot be the party of the working class. The majority of the population is not working class in advanced economies.

What? Please tell me you are kidding me. The majority of the population isn't working class? What are they then? Chopped liver?

I'm in the top 10% of pay in this country. I (almost) own my own house outright. I have savings, a decent pension pot. I'm working class. Want to know why? Because if I lose my job, I'll need to get another one. I won't be able to live on an income from assets.

Are you suggesting that over half the country are in a better position than that? Because I call bullshit.

[JohnBrown1917]

Cool, because if you want a majority, you cannot be the party of the working class. The majority of the population is not working class in advanced economies.

Sorry to break it to you, but they are. And the majority does not benefit from a conservative government(or conservative lite for Red tories)

[Monster Hunter]

Integrity.

So now your talking about integrity when a few threads back you were defending lowing the left to using right wing tactics?

[announced]

It's funny, the mainstream media is up to their usual tricks saying the only reason BOJO won was due to Russian collusion.

Article here https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...mpression=true

The op-ed published in the British newspaper fails to disclose that both Simpson and Fritsch were paid enormous sums of money through The Democracy Integrity Project to find (or manufacture?) evidence that Russia interfered in Britain’s Brexit campaign.

They have yet to prove their case. Instead of admitting they were wrong, they will simply claim Russia collusion every time they lose an election.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You sit there at your desk, shout profanity's at people, call them every abalist slur under then sun whilst some how calling your self left wing probly because it was cool in uni to call your self that, head of the to the voting booth only to some how loose the election, get your self confused, blame every one else but your own camp and then do it all over again...... Its long now gone beyond frustrating, the behaviour of you so called socialist left wing has has reached a level of pathetic that makes us snowflake liberals look down right grown up. I say so called because for left wing supporters you seem damn set on sabotaging any and every chance we get to at least get power even if it isn't on your terms.

"abalist slur"? What multiple ableist slurs have I used? I've called people stupid for voting Tory, but that is a comment on what they are doing, not what they are. And as an autistic father to an autistic son, I resent the suggestion that I would behave that way. Also never been to Uni, but seeing your batting average in this thread for getting things right, I'm not surprised you got that one wrong as well.

[Monster Hunter]

No meaningfull difference, aside from slowing down the rot.

Except its still closer to what your end goals are.

If you can't understand how a step is easier than a jump and at this moment any movment to the left is something we shouldn't be turning down then I don't even know why your bothering because it's a Completly unwinnable position for you.

If you actualy wanted to change society to how you think it's best you would support anything that brings it closer even if it's only a small movment because it makes it easier for your own position to reach its goal.

It's a damn sight easier path to go from a blairite typed goverment to where you want to be than a right wing tory gov.

I'm starting think you and a few others are actualy right wing trolls playing some game to make the left look incompetent. There is absolutely no way you could act like such a petulant child at turning down progress just because it's not full blown what you want right now.

- - - Updated - - -

"abalist slur"? What multiple ableist slurs have I used? I've called people stupid for voting Tory, but that is a comment on what they are doing, not what they are. And as an autistic father to an autistic son, I resent the suggestion that I would behave that way. Also never been to Uni, but seeing your batting average in this thread for getting things right, I'm not surprised you got that one wrong as well.

Considering I predicted and warned of this result. That's a large statment to say I'm batting low. Might have taken a few overs to get my eye in but that's a good half century so far.

Further more I have seen in this thread you supposed left wing people using the term retard and mentally challenged and using those terms in a derogatory way and you should be fucking ashamed that your hate and vitriol has driven you to be exactly like the people we should be fighting to stop.