Horde Catapults too OP

[Mehrunes]

Nah the hord never had a chance of winning that war.

On paper it's very clear the alliance has both a technological and numerical advantage as well as far more advantageous defensive positions.

I can go into detail if you wish, comparing the alliance forces and hord forces at the start of the war, But it would be a lengthy post.

Sylvana's gamble was that she would control the major supply's of Azerite and thus have the advantage of being "the sole nuclear armed super power" but that fell apart when other major sources of Azerite cropped up and the hord could never truly control darkshore or silithus.

Given how there is no solid source on any numbers, good luck going in detail about their numerical advantage. Especially in light of Orcs alone (better yet, just those in interment camps) being numerous enough that Blackmoore planned to overthrow the entire Alliance with them. And succeeded in the alternate timeline where he stopped drinking. Admittedly it was after Gilneas, Stromgarde and Quel'Thalas already left, but on the other hand Lordaeron was still in it and it was the strongest nation that has ever been a part of the Alliance. Or in light of the Horde demolishing the Alliance at pretty much every front during the previous faction war before the Darkspear Rebellion happened. Or in light of A Good War describing Horde's navy as superior prior to BfA. And given the presence of Goblins in the Horde, good luck going in detail about Alliance's technological advantage. Especially after WoD, where they got Blackfuse's blueprints from the rest of the company that followed Garrosh to AU Draenor.

Yea the writers seem to like ignoring that the alliance has.

Tanks, guns, gun siege towers, spaceships, and the same level of mages and shamans as the hord + the racial embodiments of both the light and void.

Bar the Suprise attack on darkshore, in everywhere but the random writers head the alliance was winning. I dunno if they simply over stated the power of the Zandalar navy (as long as that lasted) but the kultiran navy was always called the "most powerfull on azeroth"

But this all using logic ofc, Which dosnt apply.

The Horde also has tanks and guns. The gun siege towers are not even remotely logical on twenty different levels, so you're effectively admitting your going into detail is built upon special pleading and double standards. On top of that Sylvanas destroyed one with an explosive arrow. On top of that other top, there be Azerite war machines. The only Alliance mage of note after Dalaran's latest period of neutrality is Jaina. As opposed to Horde's two mageocracies with at least one magical well (probably two, if the Nightwell is still partially active). In terms of Shamans the Alliance has Nobundo with no real feat to his name as opposed by the Horde who created the Earthen Ring (with Alliance being only allowed to join). And as per the start of BfA, the Alliance reached out to Kul Tiras to balance out Horde's alliance with the Zandalari (on top of their own navy being inferior to Horde's own prior to the war).

[Nnyco]

When it come retro actively , yes .

The catapluts looked like normal ass catapults . The reason they gave is retro pedaling when they figured out they fucked the distance of teldrassil compared to darkshore .

What fuckin retroactive, story and ingame literally came out almost same time.

[Mehrunes]

so i guess avatar the last airbender is the worst shit ever, cause the entire story is "they majik'd it"
seriously, how the fuck is "Magic" bad storytelling, in a world of fucking magic.
i feel like your the kinda person to complain why the car in harry potter flew, or why ANY MAGIC THING HAPPENS in harry potter. "Cause its magic." "Lol they maki'd it, so fucking lazy" dude its a world of magic, of fucking course things are going to be magic.

Ah, yes. The old "it's magic so suspension of disbelief doesn't apply", which couldn't be further from the truth.

why not? with theramore gone he had all settled up, if he actually had that army size he could have done it yes

strangely to believe i know, but Garrosh was a tactician

Because he destroyed Theramore before the start of MoP giving him most of the year of MoP to do anything about it (especially prior to 5.1 expedition to Krasarang) and he still achieved nothing. And you could see the effects of Garrosh's tactics on the way to Twilight Highlands. The result being a fleet wiped by the Black and Twilight Dragonflights.

[FelPlague]

When it come retro actively , yes .

The catapluts looked like normal ass catapults . The reason they gave is retro pedaling when they figured out they fucked the distance of teldrassil compared to darkshore .

yes, they were normal catapults.
the special thign was the shamans standing beside them who then helped the projectile travel after the catapults fired.

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There wouldn't be much of a problem if the catapults where SHOWNED as being magically enhanced , like a glow on them or something.

But they weren't because , guess what , those dumbs writters didn't thought of the distance between darkshore and that big ass tree. Then they realise their mistake afterward and try to fix it with a half assed "shut up it's magic"

the catapults were not magic, shamans and mages simply helped the projectiles fly.

[Aucald]

Given the number of narrative and thematic issues with BfA in the general sense, this has the sense of being one of the pettier hills to die on. Admittedly, the whole "catapults firing across the bay to Teldrassil" is kind of silly - but in a world where magic is a daily fact of life and where the novelization of events explains that magic was used both to enhance the destructive force of the payloads and do whatever else, it's really not that Herculean of a stretch of the imagination to envision the missiles flying further, higher, and faster to a distant target. You could even scotch it and say Horde Mages used Portal magic to shorten the distances, or Shamanic magic to control carry them along the wind further, or whatever - the point is that it's not really that big of a deal in terms of the narrative. If not catapults, Sylvanas could just have easily ordered the commandeered ship chock full of Azerite to ram Rut'theran village, or put the catapults onto said ship and brought them in closer to Teldrassil to fire their volleys. Either way it's not that big of a gaffe, and was more done so as not to belabor the more important elements of the decision to do so and the reactions from Nathanos and Saurfang in light of it.

[Specialka]

Given how there is no solid source on any numbers, good luck going in detail about their numerical advantage. Especially in light of Orcs alone (better yet, just those in interment camps) being numerous enough that Blackmoore planned to overthrow the entire Alliance with them. And succeeded in the alternate timeline where he stopped drinking. Admittedly it was after Gilneas, Stromgarde and Quel'Thalas already left, but on the other hand Lordaeron was still in it and it was the strongest nation that has ever been a part of the Alliance. Or in light of the Horde demolishing the Alliance at pretty much every front during the previous faction war before the Darkspear Rebellion happened. Or in light of A Good War describing Horde's navy as superior prior to BfA. And given the presence of Goblins in the Horde, good luck going in detail about Alliance's technological advantage. Especially after WoD, where they got Blackfuse's blueprints from the rest of the company that followed Garrosh to AU Draenor.




The Horde also has tanks and guns. The gun siege towers are not even remotely logical on twenty different levels, so you're effectively admitting your going into detail is built upon special pleading and double standards. On top of that Sylvanas destroyed one with an explosive arrow. On top of that other top, there be Azerite war machines. The only Alliance mage of note after Dalaran's latest period of neutrality is Jaina. As opposed to Horde's two mageocracies with at least one magical well (probably two, if the Nightwell is still partially active). In terms of Shamans the Alliance has Nobundo with no real feat to his name as opposed by the Horde who created the Earthen Ring (with Alliance being only allowed to join). And as per the start of BfA, the Alliance reached out to Kul Tiras to balance out Horde's alliance with the Zandalari (on top of their own navy being inferior to Horde's own prior to the war).

One word: Vindicaar. But the writers have no memories.

[naeblis495]

yes, they were normal catapults.
the special thign was the shamans standing beside them who then helped the projectile travel after the catapults fired.

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the catapults were not magic, shamans and mages simply helped the projectiles fly.

And that tactic was never used before or again , oddly enough , despite the many advantages of being able to snipe the ennemy from killometers away with mere catapults, can bring to warfare.

That is just like the retarded"Holdo manoeuver" or whatever , they pulled in the abomination that is The Last Jedi .
They just fucked up and tried to correct their mistake because thinking ahead is too much for them .

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One word: Vindicaar. But the writers have no memories.

They can't even remember that the ingame distances are not the actual lore ones.

[Velerios]

In "A Good War" it was stated that the catapults were enhanced by magic from both Horde mages and shamans to increase their range and destructive powers.

And we have another case of: "A mage did it"

[Monster Hunter]

Given how there is no solid source on any numbers, good luck going in detail about their numerical advantage. Especially in light of Orcs alone (better yet, just those in interment camps) being numerous enough that Blackmoore planned to overthrow the entire Alliance with them. And succeeded in the alternate timeline where he stopped drinking. Admittedly it was after Gilneas, Stromgarde and Quel'Thalas already left, but on the other hand Lordaeron was still in it and it was the strongest nation that has ever been a part of the Alliance. Or in light of the Horde demolishing the Alliance at pretty much every front during the previous faction war before the Darkspear Rebellion happened. Or in light of A Good War describing Horde's navy as superior prior to BfA. And given the presence of Goblins in the Horde, good luck going in detail about Alliance's technological advantage. Especially after WoD, where they got Blackfuse's blueprints from the rest of the company that followed Garrosh to AU Draenor.




The Horde also has tanks and guns. The gun siege towers are not even remotely logical on twenty different levels, so you're effectively admitting your going into detail is built upon special pleading and double standards. On top of that Sylvanas destroyed one with an explosive arrow. On top of that other top, there be Azerite war machines. The only Alliance mage of note after Dalaran's latest period of neutrality is Jaina. As opposed to Horde's two mageocracies with at least one magical well (probably two, if the Nightwell is still partially active). In terms of Shamans the Alliance has Nobundo with no real feat to his name as opposed by the Horde who created the Earthen Ring (with Alliance being only allowed to join). And as per the start of BfA, the Alliance reached out to Kul Tiras to balance out Horde's alliance with the Zandalari (on top of their own navy being inferior to Horde's own prior to the war).

What hord navy? They lost most of it at the broken shore and the forsaken New fleet was dashed on the rocks by an alliance gunship.

And what tanks? I've seen a couple of hord Azerite tanks nothing close to the alliance with tons of dwarven tanks not even needed.

We saw exactly what happens when the hord bows and arrows meet the steel of the alliance war machine at lorderon. It took. An Azerite tank and the plauge just to give them an upper hand and even then for there supposed magic power jaina alone was enough. And the alliance hadn't even engaged the void elves, light forge or gnomes by that point.... The hords military is an outdated relic and a joke. And that's how it was shown in game.

The hord have lost 2 wars back to back. And they stood more chance under garrosh but still got ground under the alliance boots in the end.

[Mardux]

When it come retro actively , yes .

The catapluts looked like normal ass catapults . The reason they gave is retro pedaling when they figured out they fucked the distance of teldrassil compared to darkshore .

Jaina and anduin look like normal humans. But she is one of, if not the, most powerful mages on azeroth. And he is a god king with a clairvoyance superpower that can do no wrong.

Your reasoning is just invalid.

[Minikin]

How did the Horde lose the war when they have catapults that can reach a world tree from miles away off shore and actually hit it enough times that a magically enchanted tree sitting in water could catch on fire? I'm honestly impressed. Why didnt we use those strong catapults in lordaeron and elsewhere? We would have won the war in a day.

jetfuel cant melt world trees.

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WoW doesnt follow logic, its mostly plot for everything for the sake of looking cool. Tbh alliance would have already won the war had they used everything at their disposal.

maybe thats why they didnt use the vindicaar. It had to run back to Argus to be out of range of those catapults.

[naeblis495]

Jaina and anduin look like normal humans. But she is one of, if not the, most powerful mages on azeroth. And he is a god king with a clairvoyance superpower that can do no wrong.

Your reasoning is just invalid.

And both look the part they are playing .

[Charge me Doctor]

so i guess avatar the last airbender is the worst shit ever, cause the entire story is "they majik'd it"
seriously, how the fuck is "Magic" bad storytelling, in a world of fucking magic.
i feel like your the kinda person to complain why the car in harry potter flew, or why ANY MAGIC THING HAPPENS in harry potter. "Cause its magic." "Lol they maki'd it, so fucking lazy" dude its a world of magic, of fucking course things are going to be magic.

Because in established setting, an answer to controversial demonstration of power shouldn't ever be explained by "they majik'd it". Look at end times of warhammer fantasy, Skaven destroed fucking moon to shower whole planet with warpstone-meteors, because horned rat said so. What did lizardmen do against that? All Slann used their magical powers to stop it and most of them fucking died from overexertion. Mazdamundi (one of first spawned Slann, most powerful wizard alive) shielded most parts of the world to localize this meter shower to Lustria, he used all his powers in an attempt to save the planet, and even that wasn't enough. And you know what? Lord Kroak (THE most powerful wizard besides Old Ones themselves ever alive) fucking willed himself back into living and blasted most of these meteors with his mind-bullets. That's how "they majik'd it" should be presented, not like here, where fans assume that it was some sort of unique one-of-a-time magic enhancement by some unknown beings that we'll never hear again.

It was shitty writing, there is no other way around that, they did poor job at writing it. It's kinda of "rock falls everyone dies" kind of writing.

I'll reiterate it i guess:
explanation like "it was magic" is bad
explanation what sort of magic was it, who did it, how they did it and what consequences of this show of power is - is good.

[naeblis495]

jetfuel cant melt world trees.

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maybe thats why they didnt use the vindicaar. It had to run back to Argus to be out of range of those catapults.

pffft , haven't your heard ? Mages can now sraight up teleport the catapults's projectiles directly inside the target. The vindicaar will never be safe.

[Faust843]

What hord navy? They lost most of it at the broken shore and the forsaken New fleet was dashed on the rocks by an alliance gunship.

And what tanks? I've seen a couple of hord Azerite tanks nothing close to the alliance with tons of dwarven tanks not even needed.

We saw exactly what happens when the hord bows and arrows meet the steel of the alliance war machine at lorderon. It took. An Azerite tank and the plauge just to give them an upper hand and even then for there supposed magic power jaina alone was enough. And the alliance hadn't even engaged the void elves, light forge or gnomes by that point.... The hords military is an outdated relic and a joke. And that's how it was shown in game.

The hord have lost 2 wars back to back. And they stood more chance under garrosh but still got ground under the alliance boots in the end.

You forgot to mention that Alliance has a fucking demigod on their side (Malfurion)

[Charge me Doctor]

It’s the level of writing then have always been look at any big scene in Warcraft rather it be archamond destroying dalaran the wisp blowing him up with the tree, the litch king raising sindagrosa ect ect ect. It’s always just magic there has never been a logical explanation to any of it as Warcraft isn’t built on logic.

archimonde is an established character of that sort of power level to believe that he was able to do that. Did you miss the whole "oh shit legion is here to destroy this world starting from dalaran" that was mediated in warcraft 3 missions?
Wisps blowing him up with the tree was an out-of-desperation-all-in masterplan that malfurion set up (destroying tree in the process with night elves losing their immortality)
Lich King raising Sindragosa is also not something unbelievable, because he had a plan to raise fucking Galakrond, which we, mere mortals, actually stopped.

See how those things have follow up, or setup or some logical conclusion, while "well magic probably buffed catapults dunno lol" does not?

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Jaina and anduin look like normal humans. But she is one of, if not the, most powerful mages on azeroth. And he is a god king with a clairvoyance superpower that can do no wrong.

Your reasoning is just invalid.

So there was some sort of Jaina-power-level mage guiding and enhancing those catapults? Where exactly you get this from? Maybe i didn't pay enough attention and missed that kinda major point of darkshore event?

[kranur]

How did the Horde lose the war when they have catapults that can reach a world tree from miles away off shore and actually hit it enough times that a magically enchanted tree sitting in water could catch on fire? I'm honestly impressed. Why didnt we use those strong catapults in lordaeron and elsewhere? We would have won the war in a day.

Same way Jaina showed up with a flying fucking boat shooting with magic cannons. And then it was forgotten.
Powerful shit that doesn't make any sense is only available and only works for 1 scene in Warcraft.

[Charge me Doctor]

Same way Jaina showed up with a flying fucking boat shooting with magic cannons. And then it was forgotten.
Powerful shit that doesn't make any sense is only available and only works for 1 scene in Warcraft.

sadly yes, if only writers were more consistent with their writing, the game wouldn't be such a joke from lore perspective

[GreenJesus]

jetfuel cant melt world trees.

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maybe thats why they didnt use the vindicaar. It had to run back to Argus to be out of range of those catapults.

Haha. The vindicaar better watch out. They may have a laser cannon that can hit from out of orbit, but we have infinite range catapults that set anything on fire instantly! The draenai ran scared. Even if they didnt get hit by the catapults they would probably crash the vindicaar in the middle of nowhere.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

archimonde is an established character of that sort of power level to believe that he was able to do that. Did you miss the whole "oh shit legion is here to destroy this world starting from dalaran" that was mediated in warcraft 3 missions?
Wisps blowing him up with the tree was an out-of-desperation-all-in masterplan that malfurion set up (destroying tree in the process with night elves losing their immortality)
Lich King raising Sindragosa is also not something unbelievable, because he had a plan to raise fucking Galakrond, which we, mere mortals, actually stopped.

See how those things have follow up, or setup or some logical conclusion, while "well magic probably buffed catapults dunno lol" does not?

Those are all really weak excuses. If all it takes for them to go “lol magic” is some one being scared of archamond then that applies to the catapults as well as they are sited as a threat in elegy before they ever fire.

The wisp going Nuclear is also something that comes out of no where and is never repeated the Malth setting it up is no different then the horde setting up arcane fire before there assault, again sited in elegy. Also the night elfs losing there immortality was because of the tree being destroyed now the wisp going nuclear.


Galakrond Is no more a justification for sindagoras then Jaina flying in on her boat is for the catapults both happen after the scene in question and both are totally unrelated.


The catapults actually gave more setup then either archamond destroying dal or the wisp exploding and while frostmourn being able to raise the dead is set up way before Sindy even froustmourn is just an enchanted item that works on “lol magic”.