Iowa Caucus 2020 - MegaThread

[NED funded]

Sanders represents the political desires of millions of Americans. He may be the one changing the party lately, but it was coming regardless. Conservative dems can't just kick them out and ignore what people want. Well, they can but it will just make it easier for people like Trump to win.

It's like old school dems just expect everyone to shut the fuck up and vote for who they choose. If they keep taking that kind of position they'll just kill the party or get kicked out themselves by new blood.

Do lefty people just hope old school dems line to their demands?? This sentiment is super weird. The people voting for Buttgieg or Biden might not like Sanders and the message being sent is that its ok to not vote for him and let Trump take the presidency.

[Masark]

They absolutely need to prevent his democrat-for-day stunt and blacklist anyone who worked with his campaigns in 2016.

Should they be exiling Bloomberg too or do the wealthy get a pass on that?

[Somewhatconcerned]

Do lefty people just hope old school dems line to their demands?? This sentiment is super weird. The people voting for Buttgieg or Biden might not like Sanders and the message being sent is that its ok to not vote for him and let Trump take the presidency.

They're between a rock and a hard place...if they finally let Bernie thru, his supporters will rejoice but he likely doesn't have enough appeal to moderates and independents to flip key states. If the DNC denies Bernie...well you know what the Bernie Bros are going to do. Vote Trump or stay home and either way, it's a big loss of votes.

[starlord]

Do lefty people just hope old school dems line to their demands?? This sentiment is super weird. The people voting for Buttgieg or Biden might not like Sanders and the message being sent is that its ok to not vote for him and let Trump take the presidency.

the constant threats from bernie bros about trump is what makes them so distasteful. like they think they can hold people hostage to get what they want.

[Telogrus]

Oh, yeah, that news makes some of the chaos make sense.

But what has Perez done specifically that bugs you? I wasn't hot on him to begin with, but he helped oversee the 2018 Blue Wave and he's toned down his "I'm gonna be hip by swearing during speeches!" nonsense. He seems to be doing a fine job overall, he can't control campaigns or state parties and that seems to be where the issues are more often than not.

Is Perez really that responsible for the Blue Wave? It shouldn’t be that hard to sweep Congress when Trump had proven himself to be a terrible president

[Milchshake]

Is Perez really that responsible for the Blue Wave? It shouldn’t be that hard to sweep Congress when Trump had proven himself to be a terrible president

See the DNC is set up more to help congressional races than the presidential ones.


Bernie on the other hand, spent 2018 trolling the blue wave. Again, grinding his axe that "Dems are doing it wrong". His supporters calling Neera Tanden a shill, republican, etc. Tanden was another essential supporter of the blue wave.

Here's Bernie just weeks before the 2018 midterms crapping on the Blue Wave. Two weeks before the vote, Democrats were out motivating voters to show up to the polls while Bernie Sanders was out there casting doubts.



Bernie was predicting his Our REvolution wave was coming...
Our Revolution Candidates completely wiped out against GOP opposition. 0-27 I believe.

A precursor to Iowa 2020. Bernie claims to have this magical suuport from the masses. They never show up.

[Sorshen]

"crapping on the Blue Wave", you've become a caricature, lmao. He expresses reasonable doubt and in the same video he's promoting a democrat...

[Skroe]

Should they be exiling Bloomberg too or do the wealthy get a pass on that?

Bloomberg has done nothing besides spend enormous amounts of money on actually attacking Trump in swing stares, to the tune of $30 million a week.

This makes him far more useful an active participant in the point of ALLLLLLL OF THIS *motions around * than, ya know, Justice Democrats, Our Revolution and the like.

Or let me put it this way. What patriotic American with $30 billion who detests Donald Trump would so differently than Bloomberg. He is making a mistake running for President, but he’s doing exactly what I think a lot of people would fantasize that they would do if they could.

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"crapping on the Blue Wave", you've become a caricature, lmao. He expresses reasonable doubt and in the same video he's promoting a democrat...

The blue wave was almost entirely a Nancy Pelosi-built construction that saw a rebuilt Blue Dog Democrat group prevail in Trump-won purple and red districts. Progressive democrats have tried to take credit since five minutes after it arrived, but that’s bullshit. For the most part they only won where Democrats always win. They have basically been lying and taking credit for a house majority they played no role in building because they think the rest of us are idiots and wouldn’t, ya know, check.

There is no fucking revolution coming out of the Bernie Sanders circle jerk. Revolutions don’t come from 20-25% support of one party political campaigns that can’t even decisively win one major state in 2016 or 2020.

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Is Perez really that responsible for the Blue Wave? It shouldn’t be that hard to sweep Congress when Trump had proven himself to be a terrible president

Perez is mostly responsible for DNC reforms. The election Calendar, fund raising. National-stare Party coordination. Candidate recruitment is would be handled by a subgroup of Democrats operating out of the house that uses the DNC as infrastructure.

The person most directly responsible is Nancy a Pelosi. If Perez did anything but it was backing her determination that the way to win in 2018 is to let candidates craft messages that resonate within their districts rather than have a monolithic national campaign message.

For the record many BernieBros around here argued against exactly that approach in the run up to the 2018 campaign, predicted disaster and demanded a national platform.

They’re really clueless when it comes to winning, they’re that far up their own ass with their political ideology.

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the constant threats from bernie bros about trump is what makes them so distasteful. like they think they can hold people hostage to get what they want.

Which is why I say that is people who intend to vote Democratic regardless of candidate even if they nominate an inanimate object to the following:

(1) first give the BernieBros the finger. ..|..
(2) tell them to go fuck themselves.
(3) plan to win without them because they can’t be relied upon.

Really. They are basically taking a hostage. Remove their power by telling them they don’t matter and aren’t expected to turn out.

Because here’s the thing: even if Trump wins in 2020, the way to wining and reform in 2024 STILL isn’t through them, even though they’ll insist it is, largely to advance their own power.

Really. The worst thing the Democrats can do is normalize the BernieBro. They need to ostracize them and let them whither away. They’re so linked to Sanders and the cult of personality his people built around him that when he’s gone and they age, and distance from 2016 is created, they’ll basically die off from lack of fertile soil.

The core problem the Democratic Party has at this moment is that It’s a free for all. They need to get their house in order and an essential avenue if that is puttting BernieBros into the proverbial guillotine.

[Themius]

As others have stated before, despite obviously being the first primary - it's always an initial indicator of where the country stands as it has generally picked the winner.



No, not like this - NOTHING ever like this! >_<

There's always debates on quibbling things, but never an outright week-long oholyshitdebackle like this. And, yeah, there's plenty of calls at this point to punt the concept of the Iowa Caucus as a focal point now.

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I'm agreeing with you - I'm just saying it's going to be shorter than months. ;P

The country is defined by a 90%+ white non-diverse state in a country that is extremely diverse? Also the way caucusing works makes it quite hard for a lot of people to even take part in it. Who is to say Bernie or Butti would have ended up where they were in a proper primary?

Caucuses bring out the most passionate people, so a populist like Bernie, or a radical change candidate like gay Biden (*I'm gay mods, btw, the guy is literally like Biden.. but gay... and far less experience...) gets people excited.

But in a normal primary, or even an election when people are thinking "who will take this to him" they may have lower numbers. Maybe people will say "I really love Bernie and Butti, but Biden seems the best to win over moderate democrats and republicans"

I am a gay progressive guy, I would love Warren. But I won't be mad with Biden or Bloomberg. I want money out of politics, but if we want that, we first need to win. So I have no qualms about using Bloomberg and his billions to hammer Trump across the nation backing whomever is the democratic nominee.

An aside: Whole lotta B's

Biden
Buttigieg
Bernie (this is like the only one were people call him by his given more than his surname)
Bloomberg.

[beanman12345]

Give someone the finger, tell them to fuck themselves, then call them unreliable. That kind of logic is gonna make trump and russia very happy.

[Elegiac]

Give someone the finger, tell them to fuck themselves, then call them unreliable. That kind of logic is gonna make trump and russia very happy.

On the contrary.

If the Republican Party had taken exactly this attitude towards Trump's true believers Trump and Putin would be very unhappy.

Do y'all seriously not see the parallels in a cult of personality holding the rest of the party hostage if they don't fall in line behind the Chosen One? I'm seriously starting to think a lot of the accusations of a cult of Clinton were just projection.

[beanman12345]

Yes, if the republicans or whoever told a large portion of their base to fuck themselves trump likely would not be happy right now. If the democrats or whoever told a large portion of their base to fuck themselves, trump will be very happy. logic.

[Thelxi]

Yes, if the republicans or whoever told a large portion of their base to fuck themselves trump likely would not be happy right now. If the democrats or whoever told a large portion of their base to fuck themselves, trump will be very happy. logic.

He doesn't just tell them to go fuck themselves, he holds a knife to their throat and demands they sell their soul.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'll have to second this.

the amount of vitriol I have seen thrown at them in this thread is just stupidly ridiculous.

I haven't read most of this thread, but I know the Bernie Bros made a really really REALLY bad image for themselves in 2016 with all of the dumb conspiracies about everything being rigged against them. You ask them exactly how Hillary cheated or how it was rigged, and the only answer they can ever come up with is a vague "Well the media liked Hillary more!"

The people who will only vote Bernie, and will otherwise stay home and not vote against Trump are by far some of the most deluded and angry posters out there. They also have many of the same faults that the Trump cult has. They see the presidency as everything, as if the president holds absolute power to do anything he wants. They believe Bernie can implement their perfect ideals as the head of the executive branch, when in reality every single big change they want from Bernie would only come about with full support of the legislature - which you know he wouldn't get.

Most of the extremists on both sides, left and right, seem to have no clue what the duties of the executive actually are. They don't realize the duties and limitations the president has to effect policy and decided long ago that they don't want to learn. Perhaps it's true that there's a ton of vitriol towards Bernie Bros, but they earned it with their epic temper tantrums in 2016.

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On the contrary.

If the Republican Party had taken exactly this attitude towards Trump's true believers Trump and Putin would be very unhappy.

Do y'all seriously not see the parallels in a cult of personality holding the rest of the party hostage if they don't fall in line behind the Chosen One? I'm seriously starting to think a lot of the accusations of a cult of Clinton were just projection.

If you look a little closer, you'll find a whole lot of similarities between the Cult of Bernie and the Cult of Trump. Their core political beliefs and messiah may differ, but their logic, thought process, lack of knowledge of civics, inability to read articles beyond the clickbait title, and many other features are shared.

[Skroe]

I feel the need to point out that Bernie and Buttegieg will be getting almost exactly the same number of delegates. The actual winner - looking like Pete - might win like 1 more.

So in the end this is a big functional nothing burger for the Bernie campaign. But for the cult it is a blood insult that becajse the political revolution *gasp* been beaten by another center-left message. Which is of course super serious. Because the greatest enemy of any radical movement is the apostasy of what should be their fellow travelers. True “enemy within” is always the worse one.

[Telogrus]

I haven't read most of this thread, but I know the Bernie Bros made a really really REALLY bad image for themselves in 2016 with all of the dumb conspiracies about everything being rigged against them. You ask them exactly how Hillary cheated or how it was rigged, and the only answer they can ever come up with is a vague "Well the media liked Hillary more!"

The people who will only vote Bernie, and will otherwise stay home and not vote against Trump are by far some of the most deluded and angry posters out there. They also have many of the same faults that the Trump cult has. They see the presidency as everything, as if the president holds absolute power to do anything he wants. They believe Bernie can implement their perfect ideals as the head of the executive branch, when in reality every single big change they want from Bernie would only come about with full support of the legislature - which you know he wouldn't get.

Most of the extremists on both sides, left and right, seem to have no clue what the duties of the executive actually are. They don't realize the duties and limitations the president has to effect policy and decided long ago that they don't want to learn. Perhaps it's true that there's a ton of vitriol towards Bernie Bros, but they earned it with their epic temper tantrums in 2016.

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If you look a little closer, you'll find a whole lot of similarities between the Cult of Bernie and the Cult of Trump. Their core political beliefs and messiah may differ, but their logic, thought process, lack of knowledge of civics, inability to read articles beyond the clickbait title, and many other features are shared.

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks...436032?lang=en

This is Tom Perez, the current DNC chair, talking about how he plans to drive a fork in Latino support for Bernie in 2016.

What about Donna Brazille coming out and saying that the DNC was playing favorites with Hillary (with Donna herself leaking debate questions to Hillary)?

What about Tulsi Gabbard, the former DNC vice-chair before the 2016 primaries, becoming a pariah amongst the DNC and feeling the need to resign just because she endorsed Bernie instead of Hillary? There was even one leaked email showing a DNC elite saying some pretty nasty stuff to Tulsi for endorsing Bernie.

What about the media refusing to cover Bernie?

What about all the other nasty stuff that Wikileaks exposed about the 2016 primaries?

These are all facts. Denying that the DNC was helping Hillary win the primaries is just denying reality.

[Skroe]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks...436032?lang=en

This is Tom Perez, the current DNC chair, talking about how he plans to drive a fork in Latino support for Bernie in 2016.

What about Donna Brazille coming out and saying that the DNC was playing favorites with Hillary (with Donna herself leaking debate questions to Hillary)?

What about Tulsi Gabbard, the former DNC vice-chair before the 2016 primaries, becoming a pariah amongst the DNC and feeling the need to resign just because she endorsed Bernie instead of Hillary? There was even one leaked email showing a DNC elite saying some pretty nasty stuff to Tulsi for endorsing Bernie.

What about the media refusing to cover Bernie?

What about all the other nasty stuff that Wikileaks exposed about the 2016 primaries?

These are all facts. Denying that the DNC was helping Hillary win the primaries is just denying reality.

DNC vice chair is more of an honorific than a functional day to day job.

Also tulsi turned out to be a nut. So there’s that.

As for the rest of this drivel, Hillary won the majority of delegates in 2016 fair and square. The political revolutions appeal, as it turns out, is limited.

[Telogrus]

DNC vice chair is more of an honorific than a functional day to day job.

Also tulsi turned out to be a nut. So there’s that.

As for the rest of this drivel, Hillary won the majority of delegates in 2016 fair and square. The political revolutions appeal, as it turns out, is limited.

You didn’t actually counter anything I said. Vice-chair being an honorific doesn’t change the fact that Tulsi had to resign for endorsing Bernie.

Even if Hillary would have won the nomination without any unfair help from the DNC, the DNC aiding her in beating Bernie is still wrong. Nixon didn’t need Watergate to beat McGovern in 1972, but cheating is still cheating.

[Sorshen]

https://twitter.com/tripgabriel/stat...60407423627264

Math is opinion now.
They'll supposedly issue an update on monday.

[Skroe]

You didn’t actually counter anything I said. Vice-chair being an honorific doesn’t change the fact that Tulsi had to resign for endorsing Bernie.

Even if Hillary would have won the nomination without any unfair help from the DNC, the DNC aiding her in beating Bernie is still wrong. Nixon didn’t need Watergate to beat McGovern in 1972, but cheating is still cheating.

Yeah I really don’t care what the DNC did to Bernie in 2016.

If the Bernie Bro’s want to stay home when he loses the nomination again in 2020, fuck em.

Really what’s your endgame here? To express your continued outrage over 2016 and the dastardly DNC. Then stay the hell home and let the adults in the room take on Donald Trump without you.

I’ll just say it again BernieBRo: take hostages at your peril. It won’t end well.