Does anyone else feel this tier was just....

[Akka]

Common sense and logic have no place in this conversation!

That's a pretty nice case of proving what you rail against.

[Mysterymask]

Can you point to another time, in the past, when boes were as impactful on power levels, as they are/have been in this current tier?

Easy Chinese guild back in Mists bounced between servers to raid the BMAH...was a HUGE scandel at the time

Lets not forget everytime a darkmoon trinket was BIS...like in Wrath

[Amaterasu65]

Yes it was a lot of pay2win for the top guilds. 250m gold debt for Limit, Method will also be around that amount, maybe less.
World First progress was forgettable on the first 11 bosses, pre-last boss died on less than 70pulls, which is BS. And N'zoth was a bugfest. Indeed this tier was horrible. The secret phase happening once mid-fight on a reused area (compared to Archimonde mythic) and the lack of a proper cinematic makes it even worse. A bad end to a bad expansion. At least Horrific Visions holds my interest til I get the Faceless achievement.

[f4ncybear]

This is only a problem when Method loses apparently. Limit faction transferred back and forth just 2 raids ago.
https://twitter.com/maximumwow/statu...47016239247361

[Okacz]

Ye, or you sell your car and buy boe's and do 3 times as much damage. Back in the days buying powerups for real money was called p2w.

Pay to Accelerate at best, to be precise. It's not Pay to Win unless you literally can't obtain a power-increasing item that you would be able to buy.

[Tradu]

Honestly, I think everything should be a possible upgrade. Just because you raid Mythic doesn't mean all other options should be negated. By having a possible chance at upgrades everywhere it encourages you to continue branching out into other content and gives older content longevity instead of becoming instantly useless after you hit magic numbers.

Hard disagree. The hardest content(mythic raids) should give the best rewards full stop. Easier content should never give rewards that are comparable or better.

[Reyuna]

Yes, the "WF Race" is literally a pay to win, brute force shit show. Oh what's that? You just pumped in hundreds of hours and have hoovered up all the best BoE's and are massively in debt? Oh jee, you managed to beat the content. Good for you. So gud mejt, teach me senpai.

[Voij]

Because that is for this tier only. I think it is something that should be implemented into a profession so its available from start to finish. Not just those who grind forever and only get to use it for a little bit.

It's one of those items people will buy last because they want the mount and transmog back along with all the research. For the most part its just there as a way to use up excess if you get that high.

Ahh, gotcha. So basically you want the ability to reforge gear, but tie it to professions.

I know, weird leap in logic, but hear me out: By enabling people to simply craft sockets, you're effectively turning ALL equipment into items with sockets. Just requires some non-gated crafting materials or gold.
This, in turn, means that all items will be "current stats" + "50 of your strongest secondary stat", which is - for all intents and purposes - no different from just having "current stats + 50" and the ability to reforge those 50 points.

This is a great idea for Jewelcrafters, Blacksmiths and Miners who wish to generate more profit from their professions. For everyone else, it becomes a mandatory expense for each piece of gear they acquire, even worse than reforging. (Because when your item had perfect stats, you didn't need to reforge it. Now you WILL need a socket.)
Even then, this is only hypothetical, because Blizzard has determined that Reforging detracts from the gameplay experience instead of adding towards it, so they've chosen to not implement it again. Making sockets available on every piece of gear falls into the same category. There's no longer an actual feeling of reward or achievement tied to getting an item with a socket, but rather a liability to have to put sockets on all items at all times.

[Zantos]

That seems quite passive-aggressive. I'm aware what P2W is, this tier was literally that, you could buy gear better than higher-tiered raid gear, there is no more of a clear example of P2W.

Can you get equal or better gear in the game without spending money? Yes? Not pay to win.

This tier was in no way, shape, or form p2w in Any sense of the word. Under tuned for a final boss, sure. Disappointing with no cinematic? For sure. We can only hope next expansion is better.

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Pay to Accelerate at best, to be precise. It's not Pay to Win unless you literally can't obtain a power-increasing item that you would be able to buy.

Exactly. They could easily earn better gear. However, for the race, they spent gold to try to get as far as they did faster. Nothing more. They could have still killed the bosses without spending any gold just by playing. It was just for speed. if anything, this highlights the crappy corruption design of this tier. Titan forging sucks, but this was just worse on every level. Hopefully they get rid of that next expansion

[Daedius]

I suppose what I mean is, rather than looking to raid upgrades, you look to AH upgrades or even WQ upgrades which let's be honest if you're a mythic raider, WQ's should never be an upgrade this far into an expac.

Got a 415 ring with my stats (crit and haste) with a socket and Void Ritual corruption trait off a WQ. Flat out beats my 460 ring, just less stamina.

[Keltas]

Can you get equal or better gear in the game without spending money? Yes? Not pay to win.

This tier was in no way, shape, or form p2w in Any sense of the word. Under tuned for a final boss, sure. Disappointing with no cinematic? For sure. We can only hope next expansion is better.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. They could easily earn better gear. However, for the race, they spent gold to try to get as far as they did faster. Nothing more. They could have still killed the bosses without spending any gold just by playing. It was just for speed. if anything, this highlights the crappy corruption design of this tier. Titan forging sucks, but this was just worse on every level. Hopefully they get rid of that next expansion

'


You can spend $100 on a BoE pair of gloves that give you 20k+ dps, or you can do hundreds of M+ and never see the same corruption.

Sure, you can't buy a "better" item than anything you CAN get as a drop, but that doesn't change that the odds are extremely against the player to get a drop. Especially with most sources of gear being on a weekly lockout.

Arguing semantics about what is P2W is stupid. This is how they get away with more and more intrusive systems to milk money out of us. If we keep accepting these little steps then by the end of next expansion they really will be selling corruption orbs in the shop. Since you can "get them in game too".

[Zantos]

'

Sure, you can't buy a "better" item than anything you CAN get as a drop,

Look, this is the crux of the situation. Anything else is just irrelevant when this one statement is true. Not semantics, just fact. The corruption system added this tier is horribly designed and just made this tier horrible as a final expansion raid. Get something with a better effect and it trumps raids and other such things. Its dumb.

They need to come up with a better system. Nothing money about it.

[justandulas]

A better example of pay to win is if one of the new allied races was so OP they mostly all race changed and got the kill

I’m no defender of bfa at all, I left it for classic and never went back, but you can’t just cry wolf about pay to win without knowing what it means

Edit: your posts about the corruption gear, dailies, and bad final boss design are all valid points tho

[Daymanmb]

Easy Chinese guild back in Mists bounced between servers to raid the BMAH...was a HUGE scandel at the time

No power upgrades from BMAH

Lets not forget everytime a darkmoon trinket was BIS...like in Wrath

Are you really trying to say that dmf trinks were as powerful, or were more of a power upgrade than corrupted BoEs?

[arr0gance]

No power upgrades from BMAH

This controversy happened in early-WoD during Highmaul when the BMAH would occasionally have Mythic BRF-quality items on it. The controversy occurred mostly because server transfers were free in China and it seemed to give Asian guilds a leg-up on their competition. It was bad enough that wowprogress released a statement which essentially banned any guild which participated in this practice.

How the turntables have turned since then. :-)

[Daymanmb]

This controversy happened in early-WoD during Highmaul when the BMAH would occasionally have Mythic BRF-quality items on it. The controversy occurred mostly because server transfers were free in China and it seemed to give Asian guilds a leg-up on their competition. It was bad enough that wowprogress released a statement which essentially banned any guild which participated in this practice.

How the turntables have turned since then. :-)

Oh I didnt know that.

[Ghostile]

Still a hundred times better than dragon soul from raider perspective

[Asrialol]

One of the better tiers, tho not better than Ulduar, ICC or Antorus imo.

[Mysterymask]

Are you really trying to say that dmf trinks were as powerful, or were more of a power upgrade than corrupted BoEs?

Actually yes...during Wrath Darkmoon Card Greatness was actually best in slot for pretty much all melee until ToC when blizzard decided to just make the same trinket with a higher ilvl

[Daymanmb]

Actually yes...during Wrath Darkmoon Card Greatness was actually best in slot for pretty much all melee until ToC when blizzard decided to just make the same trinket with a higher ilvl

I dont agree with you. While dmf decks were BiS for a long time in Wrath, they were not on the same level of power increase that were seeing with corrupted gear. Also, it was in Wrath, so I think its a moot point anyways, you couldnt buy gold with real money then.