Is Classic too easy?

[Lolites]

Yeah because of 15 years of experience. Mc is between normal.and hc difficulty. New raids are all a out nukr as much as you can certain things if you don't you wipe. All about the gear and now corruption shit. Having a good corruption bonus on rank 3 can mean a dps increase of 10-20% or even more. That is just retarded.

could you read what i wrote before responding? 2/40 people had experience with bwl, and that wasnt 15y of experience but experience from 15years ago... they run through it with ease bcs its EASY... and wtf have corruption to do with classic being easy as fuck?!

[Feral Druid ist Op]

I feel that the community kinda lied to the players that came in fresh. Classic was painted as this hardcore super difficult game compared to a dumbed down super easy retail when in reality it's the complete opposite. Classes have like two buttons to press if they're lucky and bosses have almost no mechanics.

Unless you're extremely horny for the best gear in the game with as little challenge as possible I can't really see how anyone could enjoy this version of raiding for very long. Struggle is kinda important for things to feel meaningful, even in a video game.

No remotely successfull Retail Raider/pvper said that, only bad players/"nerdcasuals" ( with nerdcasuals i refer to people that are online all day but not successful at the game ) did so asmongold and the privat server dudes

[Kralljin]

Lfr generally takes an hour per wing, minimum, not per raid, and that's assuming no major disruptions. Wipes are extremely common and it is very rare to get a full clear with no wipes.

Now imagine that content done by actually decent players.
Like, a good chunk of LFR raiders are AFK during trash (or even on boss fights) anyway.

The hardest classic bosses are about the same as the hardest lfr bosses, and the easiest classic bosses are much, much easier than the easiest lfr bosses.

Stand in front of Wrathion in LFR, see what happens.
Now do the same on any Dragon Raid boss in Classic.

[arkanon]

Now imagine that content done by actually decent players.
Like, a good chunk of LFR raiders are AFK during trash anyway.



Stand in front of Wrathion in LFR, see what happens.
Now do the same on any Dragon Raid boss in Classic.

And a good chunk of classic raiders are afk during bosses. Classic difficulty is an absolute joke to anyone who plays / played both. It's not a problem though, I think it's a good thing. But anyone trying to claim classic raids are difficult in any way is simply showing they have extreme bias and a strong agenda to stick to.

[Lolites]

BWL is normal-level. It's easily cleared by hardcore guilds, it'll be easily cleared after a few wipes by decent guilds, it'll be cleared after some progression by regular guilds.

it was cleared by over 1600 guilds already, doesnt seem like much of a "progres"...

[Daymanmb]

sure, but after MC falling like house of cards forums were flooded with people claiming that MC was easy it will take weeks for casual guilds to take BWL down, and here we are, casuals clearing it in 3-4h instead of weeks...
and now ofc the goalpost is moved to AQ being the raid that will take weeks to clear, and im sure after first day of AQ the new goalpost will be naxx

Idk who these people are that youre arguing against, but I havent seen anyone here make that claim. I certainly havent.

[arkanon]

it was cleared by over 1600 guilds already, doesnt seem like much of a "progres"...

Cleared by a lot more than that! Last I looked over 1000 had LOGGED a clear, but I don't know many / any casual guilds that bother logging, and they are all clearing it. And obviously the countless pugs clearing it are not logging either.

[Kralljin]

And a good chunk of classic raiders are afk during bosses.

So?
Considering your argument was about the time it takes to clear an LFR wing and the nature of this thread, you are implying some comparison to the BWL clears.

Which is obviously laughable because i doubt any of those 40 people were constantly AFK on trash and bosses.

But anyone trying to claim classic raids are difficult in any way is simply showing they have extreme bias and a strong agenda to stick to.

The fundamental flaw of this discussion is that people ignore the relativity of difficulty.
Retail has four difficulties, so that already makes it more problematic to find a common ground.

I've told you this before, Classic raid bosses have like two mechanics but one of the two is generally a deadly one.

LFR Bosses might have more than three mechanics, but their tuning is so abysmal that it barely matters.
Even if you by any chance wipe on an LFR boss, Determination kicks in until you can brute force it.

Let alone that Classic has an extremely diverse playerbase in terms of skill, especially those tryhard guilds generally have a handful of people with a hardcore raiding background.
Whereas LFR has bottom of the barrel player quality, because most people that are better players choose higher difficulties.

[Lolites]

Idk who these people are that youre arguing against, but I havent seen anyone here make that claim. I certainly havent.

somehow i doubt you didnt notice like 95% of classic forum... but its not that hard to look through older threads, any that mention raid have people in it claiming how awfuly long it will take to clear raids in classic, and with releases of raids its always the next one

[Daymanmb]

somehow i doubt you didnt notice like 95% of classic forum... but its not that hard to look through older threads, any that mention raid have people in it claiming how awfuly long it will take to clear raids in classic, and with releases of raids its always the next one

So go argue with them lol.

[Akka]

it was cleared by over 1600 guilds already, doesnt seem like much of a "progres"...

Reading is hard ? Do you actually understand the words you quote or not ?

[Thage]

Fun Fact: Back when WoW was released, back in the age of FF11 and Everquest, it was considered "The casual MMO".

It was actually a popular meme on the EverQuest forums to make fun of WoW as 'baby's first MMO' due to the easy death penalties and relatively lenient raiding requirements (including personal instances other guilds couldn't invade)... at least until EQ started hemorrhaging players for WoW, as WoW had been designed ground-up to poach EQ's casual and midcore audience.

On-topic: Maybe? But that's the nature of the beast. Classic isn't a super complex MMO, and most of what makes it fun isn't an abundance of streamlined systems. There's a certain je ne sais quois to the exploration-based gameplay, a slower pace, world-spanning quest lines, and big dungeons that feel like enemy strongholds rather than environment maps, wrapped up with a bow that encourages socializing and making friends.

A lot of what people remember as being difficult in Vanilla was the result of private servers having to guesstimate a lot of things that weren't stored clientside, and in the case of one whose core became popular for use as the go-to core, the developers intentionally overtuned everything to keep it fresh and challenging for veteran private server players. That combined with less familiarity with the game at the time, and leveling feels harder because good gear is harder to come by prior to your mid-30s when dungeons are less stingy with good loot drops and there's plenty of options available for all four armor tiers.

[arkanon]

So?
Considering your argument was about the time it takes to clear an LFR wing and the nature of this thread, you are implying some comparison to the BWL clears.

Which is obviously laughable because i doubt any of those 40 people were constantly AFK on trash and bosses.



The fundamental flaw of this discussion is that people ignore the relativity of difficulty.
Retail has four difficulties, so that already makes it more problematic to find a common ground.

I've told you this before, Classic raid bosses have like two mechanics but one of the two is generally a deadly one.

LFR Bosses might have more than three mechanics, but their tuning is so abysmal that it barely matters.
Even if you by any chance wipe on an LFR boss, Determination kicks in until you can brute force it.

Let alone that Classic has an extremely diverse playerbase in terms of skill, especially those tryhard guilds generally have a handful of people with a hardcore raiding background.
Whereas LFR has bottom of the barrel player quality, because most people that are better players choose higher difficulties.

LFR is the common ground - retails LOWEST difficulty is the same as the hardest content classic has to offer - read this thread, talk to people who have done both - its really beyond doubt at this point. Twist it however you want, its been discussed to death and anyone without an agenda

[Daymanmb]

LFR is the common ground - retails LOWEST difficulty is the same as the hardest content classic has to offer - read this thread, talk to people who have done both - its really beyond doubt at this point. Twist it however you want, its been discussed to death and anyone without an agenda

If ToT lfr AND BWL released simultaneously as brand new content, you think youd still have that opinion?

[Kralljin]

LFR is the common ground - retails LOWEST difficulty is the same as the hardest content classic has to offer - read this thread, talk to people who have done both - its really beyond doubt at this point.

"People who say the things i like, are correct".

[markos82]

Enjoy

So I need to "exploit" mobs and how they walk/run on order to aoe lvl where there is water, because water is everywhere where we lvl and we can do that all the time while doing quests, right?

[arkanon]

If ToT lfr AND BWL released simultaneously as brand new content, you think youd still have that opinion?

Yes, without a doubt. What specific mechanic in BWL do you believe would cause issues progressing through as "new" content right now?

[Stormwolf64]

What a question. Everyone and their dog knows these fights inside out. Of course it's going to be easy.

[Daymanmb]

Yes, without a doubt. What specific mechanic in BWL do you believe would cause issues progressing through as "new" content right now?

You could do with more doubt in your life, bc youre living in a fantasy world.

[arkanon]

You could do with more doubt in your life, bc youre living in a fantasy world.

And you could respond to questions asked instead of responding with childish attempts at "humor". Just answer the question - What ability to you believe would roadblock guilds in BWL?

- - - Updated - - -

What a question. Everyone and their dog knows these fights inside out. Of course it's going to be easy.

Again, this is just untrue. This is why guilds are clearing it in 30-45 mins. HOWEVER, many groups with little to no knowledge and ZERO experience are pugging it in under 3 hours. Casuals cleared it day one in 2-3 hours.

The content is being cleared because class design and encounter design are EXTREMELY simple - designed for young teens just starting out on their mmo journey. As others have pointed out, wow was specifically designed to target those who found FF and EQ too difficult - it was ALWAYS intended to be extremely simple and easy to play.