Do raiders think dungeons are beneath them?

[potis]

I mean kinda.. When I'm 30 ilevels above you and 12/12 Mythic I feel like that should give me a little more credibility than the average low io score noob.

Granted I haven't played much BFA but it happened a lot in Legion where people would decline me because my IO score was low because I CBA to do all the dungeons everytime they reset the season or w.ebut the dungeon I'm applying too I've timed an 18 or something.

There is no context or brainpower put into accepting people besides 'high score good, low score noob'

But thats an outlier, the reality has many more variables.

Realistically, i very rarely pug, might have literally pugged someone for M+ maybe 20 times in 4 years that it exists as content.

I remember 3 of those times, 2 in Legion, 1 in BFA that i picked "good early Mythic progress , he cant be that shit", and all 3 times they were absolute shit, for my standards, i expect someone that has such progression rather early in the tier to know how the fucking dungeon works, what to interrupt, when to do what and how to survive a bursting and similar shit, generally, play the fucking game properly apart from "Dodge the red fire".

And by good Mythic progress i mean something thats actually decent the second/third week the raid is open, as example the BFA one, was a DK alt, with mains progress at Mythic Mekkatorque the second or 3rd week of Mythic BFD if i recall, so they were stuck at Stormwall probably.

Said DK was also decked out in HC BFD full clear gear etc etc, sure his single target DPS was decent, but his overall was horrendous, his overall knowledge and performance was horrendous in that Waycrest, considering he got overall outdpsed by the 3rd alt of a HC-only raider and barely overall outdpsed one of the worst players in my HC guild, my BM hunter gf :P

"He would probably do better on his main if he was an alt", can be used, thats its a cheap excuse you know, you expect better quality from such players you know?

He was an outlier too, but you get the point of my post.

[Jotaux]

Tbh I’m hesitant to invite someone with really high io because as soon as there’s one bad pull they are more likely to leave. Had a 16 kr this week, dropped it to a 15 when someone left. 4 manned the 15 when the new person left (we had one wipe to the trash after the first boss)

[Orkysaurus]

Tbh I’m hesitant to invite someone with really high io because as soon as there’s one bad pull they are more likely to leave. Had a 16 kr this week, dropped it to a 15 when someone left. 4 manned the 15 when the new person left (we had one wipe to the trash after the first boss)

This...
I'm part of a group which does key carrys. We routinely 4 man 15s and 16s timing many of them.... with 4. That's 20% of the team not doing anything. Try that in Nyo mythic raid... not happening anytime soon

[antelope591]

Tbh I’m hesitant to invite someone with really high io because as soon as there’s one bad pull they are more likely to leave. Had a 16 kr this week, dropped it to a 15 when someone left. 4 manned the 15 when the new person left (we had one wipe to the trash after the first boss)

This is true too. I had a high IO DH leave a group once because the leader was too slow to put the key in and it messed up the timing of his meta. Stuff like that happens all the time too. Imo IO is not the major issue because its helpful in sorting out what kind of groups people want. More chill groups > super hardcore > inexperienced and so on. Class balance is far more important in M+ and Blizz has not come close to achieving that.

[Aeula]

Yes, heroic I get 99-100% parses for item level as well. Heroic overall is kind of a joke and always has been.

I dunno man, hitting 50k DPS in a Mythic+ feels pretty easy compared to late heroic bosses. I do that pretty much every run but I've yet to find a group that can down anything after Wrathion.

[Trend]

Tell that to me after you stop losing on overall dps from a warlock as a dh/rogue and outpaced on mechanics, on a +15 where you think that getting a fotm is better than warlock for some goddamn reason. Or because I have completed 5 different +15s, and one of them is not the one you are doing. Like I am sorry that I am hunting down an achievement, and I need DIFFERENT dungeons. And ofc I won't have 3k RiO, when I devote my time to top 100 instead. And yes, a 15 is beneath me dude, because a 15 is a joke. Would I say the same about a 20? No, definitely not. But you also don't compare HC to mythic, right? Why should I compare a meager +15 to the experience I've gotten from years of cutting edges, and recently a top 100 achievement. (As horde ofc, alliance top 100 is like top 1k world lol).

It's pretty telling that you don't understand why warlocks are going to have very limited spots in mythic+. It is exactly this kind of thing that makes me tend not to take mythic raiders without significant key experience ... because they have this elitism without even understanding how dungeons work.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I dunno man, hitting 50k DPS in a Mythic+ feels pretty easy compared to late heroic bosses. I do that pretty much every run but I've yet to find a group that can down anything after Wrathion.

I've pugged the last two bosses it's honestly not hard. Corrupter is just one of those fights were 75% of the group gets it but 4 people. So your stuck their for two hours. The amount of things you need to do to be successful are small but two or three people just struggle. Wraithion heroic or mythic? I heard skitra was easy.

I've been that person on fights as well but that's honestly the hardest part about raiding. Is pushing a boss on mythic for two weeks to a month because 4-6 people are struggling but everyone else gets it.

[Soluna]

It's pretty telling that you don't understand why warlocks are going to have very limited spots in mythic+. It is exactly this kind of thing that makes me tend not to take mythic raiders without significant key experience ... because they have this elitism without even understanding how dungeons work.

Are you unable to read? I have completed 5 +15s in time, and outperformed in most of them all the fotm classes, brought an interrupt, gate skips, healthstones, single target purge with short cd. Every time I did a 15 in time this season, it was easy as fuck as long as people invited me. I have the utility, and I have the dmg, so what else is missing? Your precious TD rogue gate keys? You are pathetic dude. 'It's pretty telling that you don't understand that +15s are piss easy'. But go on and keep thinking that you are some special snowflake cause you can complete a +15 on time with an unholy dk, a dh and a bm, along with a holy paladin healer and prot paladin tank, and think you are a gaming god. KEKW

[Trend]

Are you unable to read? I have completed 5 +15s in time, and outperformed in most of them all the fotm classes, brought an interrupt, gate skips, healthstones, single target purge with short cd. Every time I did a 15 in time this season, it was easy as fuck as long as people invited me. I have the utility, and I have the dmg, so what else is missing? Your precious TD rogue gate keys? You are pathetic dude. 'It's pretty telling that you don't understand that +15s are piss easy'. But go on and keep thinking that you are some special snowflake cause you can complete a +15 on time with an unholy dk, a dh and a bm, along with a holy paladin healer and prot paladin tank, and think you are a gaming god. KEKW

You can rant on and on and the more you say the more clear it is you do not understand dungeons. Warlock brings all the utility needed? LMAO have you ever actually done a key without getting straight up carried? But yeah, I'm sure you'll come back with how amazing your dps is LOL. You are exhibit A for exactly why mythic raiders without dungeon knowledge are shit invites and why many people such as myself take a hard pass when they see your app.

I play a boomkin, so your theory about how I think I'm good because I play FOTM is just as stupid as all the rest of the things you say.

15's are so easy for you and yet here you are blowing a gasket about not getting PUG invites because plebs are not sufficiently impressed by what a massive mythic raider you are. But seriously, who the fuck would be any kind of mythic raider and be dependent on PUG invites? Any real mythic raider with any social skills whatsover should have no problems doing a 15 each week without PUG'ing. Really no reason to cry here.

[Mokuna]

15s are casual content you can boost or bring undergeared alts in(and you don't even need to time them to get the most relevant reward), they're really here just to gear up, it's not comparable to the last mythic bosses where pretty much any personal mistake leads to a wipe and dps/healing requirements are pretty harsh, so yeah +15s aren't really relevant to any advanced raider and they'll likely perform way better than an heroic raider spamming keys all day tryharding to get 2k rio even if their own io is really low.

Really high keys (20+) are something else, but it's way more about knowledge and cheesing than actual gameplay, they're a content of their own with virtually no reward since titanforging has been removed.

At the end of the day if you think a +15 and clearing mythic are even comparable you're just delusionnal.
As for pugs, as for any content the expectations have to be pretty high to have a reasonnable chance to complete the key given the average level of players(and the amount of dps queuing when you're creating a group for a 15+), so if you're not playing a fotm class and/or have a high score you're never gonna get invited, but that's what guilds are made for.

[Bae]

Only if i have to go down to reach the entrance

[Miyagie]

Mythic+ is not beneath me but the try hards i saw during a few years of random M+ are.
Iam doing a weekly 10 or just some 7-9+ runs for fun on my HC geared Blood DK and its always the same...
If you dont use the same way some 15-20+ players do you are a noob.
If you dont pull X amount of trash you are a noob.
If you die because of teeming or bursting you are noob.
Iam just tired of it, having all CCs on cooldown all the time and pray they become rdy when needed again, fighting to survive "easy" mobs because people dont know a to play certain debuffs, out damage 2 of the 3 dds on aoe pulls because i use CDs right + prepot and atlast my favourite the 10 Item level higher Mythic+ only player adds more mobs because following a dk tank is hard.

[Soluna]

You can rant on and on and the more you say the more clear it is you do not understand dungeons. Warlock brings all the utility needed? LMAO have you ever actually done a key without getting straight up carried? But yeah, I'm sure you'll come back with how amazing your dps is LOL. You are exhibit A for exactly why mythic raiders without dungeon knowledge are shit invites and why many people such as myself take a hard pass when they see your app.

I play a boomkin, so your theory about how I think I'm good because I play FOTM is just as stupid as all the rest of the things you say.

15's are so easy for you and yet here you are blowing a gasket about not getting PUG invites because plebs are not sufficiently impressed by what a massive mythic raider you are. But seriously, who the fuck would be any kind of mythic raider and be dependent on PUG invites? Any real mythic raider with any social skills whatsover should have no problems doing a 15 each week without PUG'ing. Really no reason to cry here.

Yeah, would be easy to get my mythic raider friends who have quit WoW since 8.2 to come with me and do +15s. Uhm no. That's not how it works, so I decided to take it casual this patch and get a +15 for all dungeons to get the mount instead of going ham into mythic progression. Keep thinking that you are special for completing a +15. If you think that a +15 requires a certain degree of high skill to do in time you are wrong, and you most likely have done shit, because you also keep getting declined for being a boomkin.

It's frustrating though when people like you think that a +15 is the top end content for m+, when in fact it's just your 'weekly standard' set by blizzard to get the best possible loot. I literally bring a group of chill friends with our 430 alts and can do +13 in time, I somehow doubt my 468 ilvl warlock will have a hard time in a 15. But keep talking like you know it all kiddo. The guy commenting right below you gets it, you don't.

[ArmatisUlv]

The big difficulty in raids, always has been, and still is, making a larger group of people work together in sync, not perform great feats of mechanical skill.

Can I see your mythic raid progress?

[Kaver]

I see alot of raiders especially on forums thinking they should be served up a invite to a +15 on a silver platter because they toped dps in a heroic raid or something or have some mythic raiding achievment (that could of just been traded for) whill also having a mediocre IO score, when of course we know this will never happen

I get the suspicion that raiders think dungeons are just "mini raids" even on some very high keys and just because they did the latest nyolotha raid that somehow makes them fit to get a instant invite to a +15 fortified tol dagor on sanguine week, when its furthest from the truth if all you do is raid and only do one +10 a week for the chest, has anyone else seen this type of attitude from raiders especially on forums?

I do both high keys and mythic raiding. I have to say that some of the raiders from my mythic group sucks in M+ because their reactive abilities are really bad. Mythic raiding is much more about doing things on a planned schedule and doing the same thing over and over again.

[Jotaux]

Mythic raiding is much more about doing things on a planned schedule and doing the same thing over and over again.

That’s how I see M+. It’s just M+ is beneath those raiders so they don’t have the repetition down. But they can still fumble their way through for the 15 of course.

[CrawlFromThePit]

I see alot of raiders especially on forums thinking they should be served up a invite to a +15 on a silver platter because they toped dps in a heroic raid or something or have some mythic raiding achievment (that could of just been traded for) whill also having a mediocre IO score, when of course we know this will never happen

I get the suspicion that raiders think dungeons are just "mini raids" even on some very high keys and just because they did the latest nyolotha raid that somehow makes them fit to get a instant invite to a +15 fortified tol dagor on sanguine week, when its furthest from the truth if all you do is raid and only do one +10 a week for the chest, has anyone else seen this type of attitude from raiders especially on forums?

There are people like that. Just like there's people who think they should be invited to a 15 because they did a 10 once in time, just like there's people who get anxiety attack from the M+ timer, just like there's people who only do LFR. There's all sorts of people. Not all raiders think dungeons are beneath them.

[gallamann]

Beneath? Nope, I do dislike the m+ culture though. In my experience there's lots more elitism and ragequits than in mythic raiding.

Hmm, experienced both. Problem with M+ is when that douche quits for whatever reason, key is usually wasted. There are sometimes where we were able to have someone run out and switch roles and finish but majority it is a wasted key. Those people are NEVER punished for their behavior, personally I think it should lock them from M+ for a day. Can you blame folks for being elite when one douche bag can waste their key?

Now contrast that with a pug mythic raid, no big deal when the typical 2-5 quit after a pull, just list and get more. Yeah it wastes time, but it does not waste the run.

Edit - after reading the thread;

I'd like to add how amusing it is to me to see Mythic raiders state +15 is easy... I fucking hope so, as you are out gearing the content.

Do agree mythic raid takes way too much time commitment, it's probably the biggest reason most never clear while current. Then within that time commitment is time wasted because a person (often differing person over multiple pulls) failed a mechanic. It's why some raid bosses take 100's of pulls.

In contrast...

Most here have probably pugged a raid, it's crazy how many leave after one wipe! There just isn't a large number of players left in WoW willing to wipe 10 times, let alone the 1000's needed to complete a mythic tier.

[js3915]

At the end of the day if you think a +15 and clearing mythic are even comparable you're just delusionnal.

Think you are... You cant compare a group that runs with everyone under 430 ilvl running a 15 to a group that is 460+ running a 15. The same goes for raids. a raid group running mythic at 450 will be harder than raid group at 470 and one-shotting every boss carrying pugs.

Point is mythic +15 is just as hard as mythic raid depending on how geared your group is. If your overgeared both Mythic + and Mythic raids are stupid easy.

[Marrilaife]

Point is mythic +15 is just as hard as mythic raid depending on how geared your group is. If your overgeared both Mythic + and Mythic raids are stupid easy.

Last season I've seen 2,5k r.io players not being able to pass mythic Orgozoa not even mentioning about full clear, and that was after all the nerfs. So makes me wonder why players who are clearly above +15s can't get cutting edge when it's supposedly equally easy. At that point everyone has maxed gear too.