Should raid loggers get low prio on gear?

[Shaetha]

On-topic - I never said they don't deserve loot, or deserve a lower priority on loot. If they show up on time, prepared & ready, and aren't idiotsalthough as others have said I wouldn't give PVP 2handers or important items such as TOEP, Choker, Nef loot to a raid-logger.

Just so you know, this quoted part reads as:

I never said they don't deserve loot or deserve a lower priority loot, but I actually do think that.

[Coldfrostzero]

Isn't your Guild Enchanter responsible for keeping the raiders enchanted at no additional cost? You know, the guy who got +55 healing on weap and +30 spellpower on weap recipes when they dropped in MC. If you're paying Enchanting Fees to randoms, outside the guild, to get your Crusader enchant, your +100 HP on chest enchant and your +5 to all resistances cloak enchant (among others) then your Guild Enchanter is not doing a really good job.

Also, have you tried asking your guild to help you with these enchants? Our warriors/rogues are constantly asking the guild to help them get Orbs from Strat Live to get their Crusader enchants - I dont think ANY of our rogues/warriors has ever bought a Righteous Orb from the AH because we just go help them farm them. First 2 orbs go to the warr/rogue, any other Orbs are rolled for by the assisting 4 members.

A guild is a living organism - if the members don't communicate about their needs to the other members, then the organism will not grow properly.

Well, the first guild I was in fell apart and got absorbed. One of my best friends got the +healing enchant out of MC and was our "guild enchanter" then. Only enchants I bothered with until recently was Stamina to bracer / Strength to gloves / Crusader on both weapons. Guild wasn't very good or serious. The GM would toss me some gold once in awhile to if it was a particularly rough night in MC. Still need to get the libram enchants, but it's fine for now.

In our new guild, it's a little more serious. I farmed about ~200g, bought a ton of dust for my enchants and my friend enchanted what he could for right now. I spent the remaining gold on consumables. As far as orbs go, I can do 2 runs of SM in the time it takes to do one run in Strath Live and just buy the orbs since they hover around 30g. We're still very new to the guild (going on about 3 weeks?) and the MT told me why their other OT left (the one I replaced) was because his friend who farmed him mats stopped playing. I mostly farm my own gold or mats so I'm the perfect replacement I guess.

I'm not the main tank in this new guild and half the time I'm either DPSing in tank gear or the Wing Buffet tank. Only fights I have to realistically tank anything is Razorgore, Broodlord (when MT loses threat), and Chromaggus(if the MT dies). Rest is just trash and the adds on Nef. Granted they had me tank Vael last night, but I had DM buffs, Valentine's day buff (why is that still up?),and elixir of Fortitude on top of being a Tauren my health was over 8300. Ironically, we killed Vael after we wiped once, so those buffs didn't even help.

[Revamp Man]

This, as long as people show up with consumables and do what is expected to clear the raid, you shouldn't really care what they the on their free time.

Missing raids however is something that should be punished.

I think this post is from someone who is angry that they don’t get carried through dungeons or they are angry because they seem to be the only person farming for guild materials and stuff like that or maybe the Raid loggers that he’s talking about our people that only show up for black wing layer and don’t give a damn about Molten core

I mean the original post in the thread

[MrLachyG]

General hot topic is the large amount of raid loggers each guild has and the hidden animosity that brews between them and general players. They might login once or twice a week to raid and then are gone the rest of the week. Not helping the guild in anyway but still getting the same priority on gear that every day players get.

Should they get the same priority on gear since they assisted in the kills or would the gear be wasted on someone who only uses the gear to raid and rarely is on to help the guild out with other parts of the game.

I thought for a second you meant people who log raids. Either way the answer is no, they should get the same chance of loot as everyone else. Sure they only log on for raids but as long as they perform who cares?

[cuafpr]

that's why you use epgp or similar system, those that farm for mats for pots/flask between raids get gear first.

[clevin]

6 pages in and OP hasn't come back. I'm shocked...

The only questions are 1) do they come with expected consumables etc 2) do they show up for most raids, 3) do they carry their weight? If the answer to that is Yes, they're fine. If not, then you address THAT issue, not by withholding loot but by saying "hey, everyone else comes with a flask ready to go... you're not. What's up?" or "Hey, we're seeing that you consistently put out half the DPS of the other people in your class... what gives?" The latter needs to take gearing into account of course (someone in pre-raid gear won't do the DPS of someone in BWL gear) but aside from that, you deal with the issues directly, not by being passive aggressive dicks and playing with loot rules.

[George Costanza]

They should get lower prio since they wont use the gear as much as the others, if all you do is just login for raid you should be lower on the priority list.

[Nitros14]

Luckily no raids in classic require even 20 people really.

Haha good luck with that.

[clevin]

They should get lower prio since they wont use the gear as much as the others, if all you do is just login for raid you should be lower on the priority list.

WTF? It's raid gear. For use in RAIDS. They show up and raid, they just don't do other things.

Do some of you even think before posting this shit?

[George Costanza]

WTF? It's raid gear. For use in RAIDS. They show up and raid, they just don't do other things.

Do some of you even think before posting this shit?

Its not raid gear because it doesnt grant you extra perks in the raid compared to the outdoor world or dungeons.

[jackofwind]

General hot topic is the large amount of raid loggers each guild has and the hidden animosity that brews between them and general players. They might login once or twice a week to raid and then are gone the rest of the week. Not helping the guild in anyway but still getting the same priority on gear that every day players get.

Should they get the same priority on gear since they assisted in the kills or would the gear be wasted on someone who only uses the gear to raid and rarely is on to help the guild out with other parts of the game.

That's not a hot topic, it's something that you're trying to make into a thing.

Gear from raids isn't wasted on people who only use it to raid because gear from raids is there for raid progression. You don't need it for anything else in the game.

[clevin]

Its not raid gear because it doesnt grant you extra perks in the raid compared to the outdoor world or dungeons.

OMG. Just... go back to retail.

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Gear from raids isn't wasted on people who only use it to raid because gear from raids is there for raid progression. You don't need it for anything else in the game.

Precisely. Obviously some of these people need to learn that.

[DazManianDevil]

Obviously this is a Classic thread but I'll give an example from current Modern WoW in my own guild.
One of our tanks, can only raid log and do 1-2 keys a week. He has 2 jobs and is moving into a house with his irl girl friend.
Should he be benched/denied loot (in theory) cause he doesn't "Contribute outside raid"? Fuck no, he shows up when he's needed, not for social hour.

I could give a fuck if a raider doesn't wanna log in and farm herbs for someone else. Any self respecting dps in Classic that's a Warcraft log junky will farm his own consumes without even being asked. One of our raiders came to BFA from Classic and he flasked in MC for this very reason. Not needed but, he liked them Pink Parses.

Every guild I've raided in from Kara to now, has basically only required you to bring your own consumes, be on time and be on your A game for prog. Anything beyond that was appreciated on a social level.

I pity any guild that requires full Flasks and Elixirs in Classic raids, but that's only my opinion. (Yeah if you're into the speed running meta that's an exception, albeit a small minority)

[jackofwind]

I am not a raidlogger. In 15 years of WoW, I have never raid logged, and I always despised the fact people do it. Note: I don't despise the PEOPLE doing it - I despise the ACTION of doing it. That being said, I never had issues with the PEOPLE doing it, as long as they performed adequately in raids and pulled their own weight.

You ask, "What is there to do outside of raiding in Classic?". Here are a few activities I do, as a raiding moonkin, during off-time.

1) I farmed Strat UD and Scholomance to get Argent Dawn exalted, for the shoulder enchant, and for the enchanting recipes that were added in P3, since I'm the guild's main enchanter. The whole guild comes to me for enchants, because I don't charge guildies with Enchanting Fees like I do randoms (duh, obviously). As such, I've farmed all available enchanting recipes in game, only missing +55 healing and +4 to all stats from MC & Ony.

2) My role as Guild Enchanter leads me to my 2nd activity, farming Timbermaw Hold rep and Thorium Brotherhood rep. Again, for enchanting recipes.

3) While all this was going on, I have helped 8 different people get their Onyxia attunements - both the Jailbreak part in BRD and the UBRS part.

4) I have mined SOME Thorium to help out our tanks farm the required Arcanite for Thunderfury. My contribution was only 4 Arcane Crystals, out of 100 needed PER thunderfury, so even though it wasn't much, it's something.

5) I have helped many alts get leveled and geared (while farming my AD rep in Strat UD and Scholo) so that they become raid-ready and become available characters for split-raiding that we sometimes do for MC and Ony.

I raid log generally, other than PvPing with friends rarely if I find time.

1-2. I'm AD Exalted, Timbermaw exalted, AV exalted, Thorium Bros exalted, and all main factions exalted. I'm a guild Engineer, and I provide repair bots. People send me mats and I craft things from them before raid while waiting for Ony/Nef head to drop. Recently I made 360 Thorium Widgets in one shot for someone to flat out buy their Orb of the Darkmoon necklace (that's 1080 Thorium Bars, for reference).

3. My entire guild and all our alts are MC/Ony/BWL attuned, and I was there for those runs. We got that shit out of the way months and months ago, and the day BWL dropped we used a single cleared instance to get the whole guild attuned.

4. I smelt Elementium for the guild and send all my Dark Iron to the gbank. We have no Bindings yet but we have the mats for two TFs already, so there's no real need to do more.

5. As I said before the guild alts are all attuned and geared and we just carry the un-geared ones through MC/Ony anyways because no one needs most of the shit in there anymore.

Still think I shouldn't be raid-logging? Fuck that.

[SkagenRora]

I am curious as to what else one would be doing currently that requires help from the raid loggers

You should farm gold or mats for your raid consumables during the week, A raid logger would never have pots or elixirs.

[jackofwind]

You should farm gold or mats for your raid consumables during the week, A raid logger would never have pots or elixirs.

Patently untrue. Consumes are cheap other than flasks and raiding is a net gain in income, even discounting BOE and crafting mat drops. Guilds make tens of thousands selling carries and BOE T1 gear and can supply raiders with all required raid consumes.

Even if you were to farm gold for your own consumes it would only take a single night of playtime per month which I'm sure wouldn't stop you from being considered a raid logger.

[Hinastorm]

If they get the consumables and buffs that are expected, I don't understand what the problem is.

Maybe if you just recruited a new 60 of a class the raid needed, and they need 5 man runs, maybe? Otherwise I don't really understand.

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Patently untrue. Consumes are cheap other than flasks and raiding is a net gain in income, even discounting BOE and crafting mat drops. Guilds make tens of thousands selling carries and BOE T1 gear and can supply raiders with all required raid consumes.

Even if you were to farm gold for your own consumes it would only take a single night of playtime per month which I'm sure wouldn't stop you from being considered a raid logger.

Lol. We're not all in day one no wipe BWL clear guilds bud, raiding is not a net gain for 99.9% of raiders. I truly and honestly hope you didn't think that that is normal.

I haven't seen a single advertisement for ANY type of raid carry on my heavily populated server even once. And while some gold is made from t1 BoE's (the vast majority were given out to equip in my guild) alot of that went to flasks for MTs for bwl, and sulfuras/TF.

And no, a single night is not enough farm for a month of consumables for a guild progressing in bwl right now, lol. My god.

[jackofwind]

If they get the consumables and buffs that are expected, I don't understand what the problem is.

Maybe if you just recruited a new 60 of a class the raid needed, and they need 5 man runs, maybe? Otherwise I don't really understand.

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Lol. We're not all in day one no wipe BWL clear guilds bud, raiding is not a net gain for 99.9% of raiders. I truly and honestly hope you didn't think that that is normal.

I haven't seen a single advertisement for ANY type of raid carry on my heavily populated server even once. And while some gold is made from t1 BoE's (the vast majority were given out to equip in my guild) alot of that went to flasks for MTs for bwl, and sulfuras/TF.

T1 BOEs were selling on my server for 750+ gold each before BWL was released, and still sell for 200+ gold. MC is an absolute goldmine. We make a similar amount off BOP gear via carries since no one in the guild has needed most items from MC for quite a while. (US-Rattlegore BTW)

My point wasn't that raiding as a net gain in income is normal, just that there isn't this massive amount of time and prep that is required to raid at all. Consumes are cheap, flasks aren't needed unless you're pushing times in BWL, and the most important buffs you can get come from DM, Felwood, and Ony head which are all free.

[bloomy]

this will be different for every raid team, most will say no because you want as many consistent bodies as you can get, even if they only log on for the raids.

most people i know raid log now and so do i, the game offered a TON of fun and content up front in the form of leveling and gearing up with MC gear, but at this point there isn't much to do outside of the raids unless you want to work on alt characters.

[anveena]

Nah. There's nothing wrong with raid logging.