Why can't gear just be gear? Why all these shitty systems?

[Raisei]

There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

No no, you only complain about every piece of progess that has happened in the game in the last 5 years... like daily and "poorly received" is your own opinion. People loved the Legion Artifacts.

Highest content still gives the highest gear, the Corruptions are just a bonus that has a pricetag in the form of increasingly heavy drawbacks. They are an incentive to keep playing as the corruption resistance will keep growing and allow for more and more to be used. That is a form of power progression. That the corruptions themselves are RNG is not great, I admit, but there has always been RNG to gearing.

So you think that doing mind-numbing, monotonous, repetitive content for infinitesimally small rewards (50 rep for a daily lmao) is game design that should be encouraged? Ok, I guess we deserve the state of MMOs then, if we encourage companies to make such shitty content and then defend them for it.

We know you hate the game from the hate threads you post every two days. What we don't know is why you cannot just leave us alone. Collect stamps or something and post your hate on their forums. With the frequency you are posting these threads I can`t help but wonder if you are paid by some other gaming company.

[Dracullus]

WoD had a severe lack of endgame.

You don't get around a severe lack of endgame by making loot way more frustrating. That's just pseudo-gameplay rather than meaningful gameplay.

For example TBC had fixed gear and yet people seemed to feel engaged with plenty to do. That's because, instead of generating re-playability through shitty RNG-fest systems, they instead chose the far superior option of "let's keep adding meaningful content", which is why TBC had so many dungeons and raids of a high calibre.

On top of that, they had other ways to engage players. Much more useful professions. Grindier PvP. Slower leveling.

In essence, both examples are ways to keep players on the treadmill, but the former is cheap, shitty and unengaging, whereas the latter is actually fun.

Yeah, let's talk in two years when people will sit in Shattrath doing nothing but raids once a week.

To all people that responded to me - I'm not defending any specific system, I just say there is need for some progression system beyond gear that gives reason to do at least some of activities during week.

[Specialka]

Agreed.

People in this thread are the reason why WoW is so unfriendly to alts nowadays. You can never just be done and enjoy another class without feeling like you're gimping your main and your alts, because your main stops progressing and your alts need a ridiculous time investment to perform well, e.g. essences and shit.

It's the main reason why I've mostly moved on to FFXIV. Weekly Valor cap so you can actually move the fuck on for the week at least, devs that encourage you to quit between patches if you want to. The only thing I truly miss from WoW is the seamless open world.

And challenging high end pve. There is no challenge in Savage raid in FF 14

[MasterHamster]

Every content update is designed to be "self-sufficient" and Blizzard has evidently concluded that introducing a new mechanic is a key feature to get people hooked back in.
Try the new X system as you explore Y!

When added content was more like another step on an ever-growing ladder to climb, just stats and some bonuses was enough
Now the game "begins" in the very latest patch and you are simply assumed to be bored with everything else already.

[munkeyinorbit]

nice question.i anwert fast.becuse it is a tactic for u spend more time playing,so more time subs eurs.this is a shi t really...

Typical response on mmo these days. Game is shit because there are things to do. There's always Classic. Apparently doing nothing all week is more rewarding because you have to "work" for your tiny upgrades or some shit. Go do Classic.

[Justpassing]

Typical response on mmo these days. Game is shit because there are things to do. There's always Classic. Apparently doing nothing all week is more rewarding because you have to "work" for your tiny upgrades or some shit. Go do Classic.

Nah it's more like "There are things to do but I don't wanna do them, so there's nothing to do and the game is shit. And that's a widely accepted fact."

[Clozer]

Nah it's more like "There are things to do but I don't wanna do them, so there's nothing to do and the game is shit. And that's a widely accepted fact."

Blizzard: "here are 50 dailies to kill 50000 boars each day - enjoy!" You: "Nah it's more like "There are things to do but I don't wanna do them, so there's nothing to do and the game is shit. And that's a widely accepted fact.""

I hope you realize that quality does not come with quantity.

[keldarepewpew]

Good for you. Now stop trying to take the possibilty to grind indefinitely from those who prefer it

id rather make 10 level 100 POE chars then grind AP.

[Ghostile]

So you think that doing mind-numbing, monotonous, repetitive content for infinitesimally small rewards (50 rep for a daily lmao) is game design that should be encouraged? Ok, I guess we deserve the state of MMOs then, if we encourage companies to make such shitty content and then defend them for it.

Considering its not mandatory, its not that bad.
Having something to work on is a better alternative to not having a reason to log on.

If they made complicated optional content, people would complain its wasted effort, If it was mandatory people would complain like they whined about early bfa azerite farm

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id rather make 10 level 100 POE chars then grind AP.

So youd rather do brainless farm on one game than another?

Logic

[Justpassing]

Blizzard: "here are 50 dailies to kill 50000 boars each day - enjoy!" You: "Nah it's more like "There are things to do but I don't wanna do them, so there's nothing to do and the game is shit. And that's a widely accepted fact.""

I hope you realize that quality does not come with quantity.

Except I do, that's why I'm not subbing this tier, but you won't see me making five threads a day telling people not to like what I don't like. I'm just playing something else instead. It might be an old notion but I'm a firm believer of voting with your wallet instead of preaching to echo chambers on the internet. I know there's no way of knowing for sure but even if the half of the forum doomsayers are still subbed it's just sad.

[keldarepewpew]

Considering its not mandatory, its not that bad.
Having something to work on is a better alternative to not having a reason to log on.

If they made complicated optional content, people would complain its wasted effort, If it was mandatory people would complain like they whined about early bfa azerite farm

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So youd rather do brainless farm on one game than another?

Logic

Correct cause playing the class in one game is fun whereas the other game has shitty class design atm. Just goes to show how important it is the classes feel right.

[Monolithi]

Yes? I don't understand how this question comes up every single time a topic like this gets created. Of fucking course i'd rather have nothing to do and quit. I want to be able to ""complete"" the game, at least temporarily, to free up time for other things, other hobbies. No game should keep you on the hook the entire fucking time. Why would you not want that? Do you want to be addicted? To play the same game every single day?

I would say you set your goals too high and now you are frustrated you cant reach them in “reasonable” time.
After my hardcore/younger phase, I gone chill mode and much happier now, no frustration from game. Game became just a game, big relief in the end.

[Ghostile]

Correct cause playing the class in one game is fun whereas the other game has shitty class design atm. Just goes to show how important it is the classes feel right.

Poe and good class design dont really overlap, unless you somehow consider using one skill a better alternative

[Nerovar]

The goal of these systems is to make gear a more interesting, exciting factor when playing the game and I genuinely think they've succeeded in making it more exciting. Now, would these systems be less exciting if they weren't tied to obscene amounts of RNG? We shall never know.
What we do know is how their current take on itemization affects gameplay and it doesn't look awfully pretty. No one can tell me that having 60% (in some cases) of your damage coming from passive sources (most of which have nothing to do with your class) is fun gameplay. People can meme all they want about Classic one-button rotations but at the very least you're still pressing that one button and see the immediate outcome of your action.

[Mirishka]

There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

And yet they haven't learned at all. Instead they seem to be doubling down, creating even shittier systems. It's like when they say they'll get rid of a certain annoying part of the game, they somehow make it worse. Like with removing titanforging which was supposed to make the game less RNG, to adding corruption which is more RNG. Is this company just completely out of touch? So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.

Another day, another Ano2024 Whinepost™ for our viewing pleasure*.

This may come as a surprise, but MMO-champion is not your personal blog. We don't need to know about every little thing the game does that hurts your feelings.






*that was sarcasm.

[La]

Because somewhere along the line Blizzard decided to try to make everyone happy in every aspect of the game rather than simply focusing on one or two. This causes everyone to be unhappy because it doesn't focus on the people it was meant for, but also on people it was never meant for at all.

[Biomega]

Two basic options are in play when it's "just gear":

1) Closed gear system: there's gear up to a certain level, which you can get through various means (usually raiding, now also M+). This inevitably means there is a "BiS" list that you can attain, after which you've completed the gearing part of the reward loop and are now left with less things to do. This used to be the system in place in the past, and led to people quitting in between tiers because they either got all their gear, or got enough of it that the last few pieces didn't matter enough for them to stay subscribed. Obviously it's a problem for any company if their customers stop paying.

2) Open gear system: there's gear, and it just keeps scaling (either in fact or in practice, where a cap might be technically in place but be realistically unachievable). You can always get better gear, either by putting in more effort, more time, or through RNG. There is no true "BiS" list because gear can always be upgraded, so the gear reward loop remains in place forever. This is effectively what they had with Titanforging. The problem is RNG, which makes many people very annoyed with either them not getting high drops, or others getting them undeservedly (like WQ items scaling to mythic raid level). This system also runs into issues of power inflation, where the higher ceiling inevitably leads to conflicts with content balancing (the whole problem of people being living gods slaughtering the hapless masses in quests whenever new content comes out).

Option 1) we had for a long time, but is economically problematic for the company because it has an inherent tendency to lose them subs. Option 2) has other problems, such as heavy RNG elements and power inflation. Ironically, the "shitty systems" like Azerite etc. actually helped keep Option 2) in check somewhat, because it reduced the number of slots that can scale to ludicrous levels somewhat.

Corruption is effectively under Option 2), however it also has a particular way of implementing it that introduces heavy RNG elements - both because corruption acquisition is so random, and because the impact of corruption increases the variance spread considerably (with some corruptions increasing player damage by ridiculously high amounts).

There's various little details in the implementation of systems and sub-systems, but this is the general gist of it. And also why those systems are not going to go away anytime soon.

[Raunchy]

bring back titanforging atleast it gave u a reason to run low mythic keys

[dragi]

For me it's pretty cool, we getting skills and buffs through gear. Since they almost removed gems, removed half enchants, removed hit chance, removed "old way reforging". Removed dodge and parry stats from gear. We almost lost all weys to have fun with changing stats etc. I know, it's "robot site" and other sites showing best options, but always you had to work with gems and enchants after changing gear piece, for best stats. Now in most cases i just changing for better ilvl....Corruption is some option to have fun from gearing. Who remember calculating hit chances for pvp or bosses? Haste thresholds for rdruid?

[Xath]

"Worked for ages". Of course you don't remember growing "nothing to do" and "AFKing in capital" problem that reach it's peak during WoD. Now you don't even have to remember this, just watch what 60s usually do in Classic.

It's not a problem to be able to scale back how much you play wow and it's terrifying that people think it was. FF14 knows people will drop to one day a week after clearing the raid and they are fine with it wow used to be as well.

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So you would rather have nothing to do and quit?

I would rather be able to log on once a week to raid after content is clear and work on alts or play other games yes

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People complained they ran out of things to do, so they implemented a way for you to level up a certain piece of gear that doubled as a way for trivial content to always give you something that could progress your character.

You say things were fine before, that there was nothing wrong with it, why did they change it. Well, people once upon a time weren't fine with it. They complained up through the ceiling about running their tiers dry in the first weeks of release, having their full BiS lists and then having nothing else to do until the next raid released.

Because blizzard in typical fashion refused to admit their fit over flying is what the userbase cratered from mop and blamed it on "not have anything to do" rather than admit that people liked flying because it sped up the chores let them do the parts of the game they found fun then go do other stuff besides just one game.