Covenants will ruin Shadowlands.

[Aucald]

We've seen the general direction these abilities go with obvious BiS choices for certain types of content/certain situations and we have the confirmation that switching between covenants will be punishing. How is that not enough information to judge this system when it's literally the only information Blizzard has decided to release and it's still very obviously flawed at a conceptual level?

Abilities that are before balance passes and insofar as our information, prior to Beta or even Alpha iteration. Again, I'll wait for the playable Beta to make a firmer determination - trying to pass judgment on them now is jumping at shadows. By all means point out the issue with BiS issues and so forth, but it's highly unlikely they'll remain the same as the pre-Alpha information we were made privy to. As for them being punishing to switch, I'm actually okay with that - I like the idea of having to make semi-permanent and impactful choices when it comes to gameplay and story elements. Adds variety to alt play, and makes said choices more meaningful. Puts me in mind of the old Aldor/Scryer choice back in TBC, which was also an impactful one when it came to the expansion story.

[ercarp]

This is more of a player problem than anything else. People need to get out of this min-maxing mentality where they'd sacrifice their own enjoyment of the game over a trivial power increase.

[Seranthor]

Was waiting for this one.

Just wait for Alpha.
Dude it's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
Come on dude the game just launched, give them time.
Just wait for x.1 dude they'll fix it.
They said they'll fix it next expansion.

The cycle never ends with you fanboys, does it?

Folks might be inclined to give you a fair hearing, if
1) you could point to what you are complaining about (but you aren't, you are just crying to cry)
2) you offered some solution whatever it is you are complaining about (you cant, because you cant even identify what you are crying about)

[Egomaniac]

Oh good. Another "Feature X will ruin Expansion Y" thread.

[Seranthor]

play
a
different
game

The game they are playing is called 'Shit on Blizzard then cry'

[Kyphael]

Good plan! I am leveling another DK atm to have as main. But i have a DK at 120 from before, (its Horde) and since the tombstone is awesome as well I need to have both DKs at max in SL! :P

I am going to try to have Covenants that fits either race or class, or both.

For me it will be like this, not necessarily after cloak transmog
Necrolord: Velf DK Main (deffo cloak that drives this decision!)
Venthyr: Belf DK Alt, Velf Mage, Velf Rogue(maybe change to your choice on that)
Bastion: Lightforged Holydin
Night Fae: Velf or Vulpera Hunter, Night Elf Demon Hunter LOL(DH wings+butterfly wings = magic)

Thats my plan for now. More chars to decide. Major expansion plan is to have 4 chars on each covenant, all the different armor set, 4 times 4.

Just to clarify, wowhead has tombstone for necrolord and bone legs for venthyr. But I cant see thats correct? I mean its a win win for me if the bone leg one is Venthyr when I like them the most overall, but the tombstone is so venthyrish and I see people point out on wowhead and other pages that they are indeed wrong. But I can't really confirm.

That's cool and well thought out, I'm planning something similarly. I only have one DK at 120, but I do have two warlocks as 120, and the Necrolord/Venthyr back transmogs will definitely be going to them, as well as the rogue.

Bastion will be for paladins and my priest, Night Fae for night elves and druids. I have like 15 120's so yeah, sorting them into the 4 Covenants will be most fun.

[Seranthor]

Imagine actually believing they listen to feedback.

But you aren't offering 'feedback', you are offering tantrums and tears.

- - - Updated - - -

You keep quoting this completely bullshit 1-2% number.

Are Essences within 1-2% of eachother?
Are Azerite traits within 1-2% of eachother?
Are Talents within 1-2% of eachother?


What a fucking laughable thing to try to argue.

We aren't talking about excellent balance in Dota 2 here. This is World of Warcraft. They're fucking awful at balancing things.

- - - Updated - - -



Infinite Stars.
Twisted Appendage.
Twilight Devastation.

LOL.

If you can invent bullshit numbers, why cant everyone else?

[Doffen]

That's cool and well thought out, I'm planning something similarly. I only have one DK at 120, but I do have two warlocks as 120, and the Necrolord/Venthyr back transmogs will definitely be going to them, as well as the rogue.

Bastion will be for paladins and my priest, Night Fae for night elves and druids. I have like 15 120's so yeah, sorting them into the 4 Covenants will be most fun.

My warlock is a void elf(surprise) and she is going Venthyr or Necrolords for sure. Will see the whole transmog set before I decide on that. I do love the plate sets that we have seen. Both Necrolords and venthyr sets screams Death Knight to me so can't really go wrong on that one.

Just waiting for more alpha datamining now. I do look forward to see all the new customization and transmog stuff they are bringing to Transmoglands.

[Eurhetemec]

And all the other big mmo makers are rejoicing and thanking you for your subs you lost lol.

Wow, welcome to 2007-era anti-Blizzard insults. Jesus that's old-school.

If you don't like having to deal with "competitive" people, then don't play or associate with them. However, you also don't get to call them shitty because you don't like how they play(unless they're being ToS-breaking, or actively rude and offensive in a general social sense).

I think it's fair to say they're probably absolutely terrible players if they're doing what you're discussing in anything less than current-content Mythic raids or high key M+. Which is what you're totally not getting. What you're describing is absolutely symptomatic of incompetent and bad-natured players. They are the leading exponents of what you describe.

If you have a situation where someone doesn't like the choices you've made on your character, even if it's only 2%, then deal with it. Find players more to your liking. But don't call them "Shitty people" or "shitty players".

Granted, the people who are also asking you to step up and get that 2% should also be civil about it as well. There's no cause to be rude to someone because they aren't "optimized". Just let them know you're looking for performance, and if they can't meet that standards, then the group isn't for them.

This is what I meant by "everything wrong with the game". The rampant tribalism where anyone who doesn't immediately agree and conform is viewed as second class. or the enemy, or "bad".

Your first sentence here literally tells him to engage in tribalism, then your last sentence complains about tribalism. This is VERY VERY internet.

[Seranthor]

why do people who think this game is so goddamn miserable still play it?

A brilliant question that will eternally go unanswered

[Ielenia]

"We want to reduce the RNG of titanforging and make iLevel matter."

Corruption does the exact opposite in both cases.

Except corruption does exactly what was promised: reduce RNG. You have less RNG to get your "optimal corruption" than you needed to get your "optimal titanforge".

Not to mention you need EVEN LESS since you don't want corruption on all your pieces of gear.

[mvaliz]

A brilliant question that will eternally go unanswered

The more brilliant question I have is why even bother having a gaming forum if nobody wants to discuss ideas or problems they have with it, when others just tell them to "go play another game"?

[Adam Jensen]

Oh good. Another "Feature X will ruin Expansion Y" thread.

Alliance getting blood lust was going to ruin WoW
Horde getting paladins was going to ruin WoW
Paladins becoming raid viable tanks was going to ruin WoW
Removal of attunements from raids was going to ruin WoW
Phasing quests was going to ruin WoW
Flying in old world was going to ruin WoW
LFG/LFR was going to ruin WoW
Pandas were going to ruin WoW

I could keep going . . .

[Relapses]

The shear number of people defending this flawed design is astonishing. No wonder Blizz gets away with these craps. There is an addict fan base who Blizz can feed upon, no matter how shitty their products are.

The fucking expansion isn't even in Alpha yet. Are we supposed to collectively picket Blizzard headquarters until they change literally fucking everything before the expansion is even conceived???

[Frolk]

You don't know shit.

With Blizzards current trackrecord we shouldt trust blizzard, im highly worried on how fucked Covenants will end up with nerfs and buffs of the abilities, unless they change that.

[Jastall]

The more brilliant question I have is why even bother having a gaming forum if nobody wants to discuss ideas or problems they have with it, when others just tell them to "go play another game"?

I mean, while you are right that dismissing criticism is never good, at some point one wonders why people like the OP bother talking about a game that they really don't like made by a developer that they viscerally hate. I have no love for Bethesda RPGs (save Skyrim, s'alright), but you don't see me ranting over at their official forums all day long and assuming everyone who disagrees is a mindless drone.

The stock answer is "well I care about the game still, despite despising every facet of it!" and I'm not sure that's the healthiest attitude. Some people have to learn to let go.

As for the topic, I'm of two minds. I do think tying up abilities and player power to such an immutable choice isn't a very good idea. I wouldn't like for, say, the Night Fae abilitiy to be the best for DPS warriors when the covenant holds nothing of interest to me in terms of theme and I'd much rather side with Venthyr or Necrolords. But on the other hand, from those we've seen the abilities are basically DPS cooldowns, which account for a decent portion of one's damage but are highly unlikely to make or break a build by their lonesome. it would be equivalent to using your BiS essence vs the second or third best one; most players would balk at such a notion, but the actual difference in practice won't be very significant unless you're pushing the very highest tiers of content.

Still, I'd rather Blizzard decouple the abilities from the Covenants. Make them a talent tree. Maybe give a slight buff or flavorful addition if you use the ability of your chosen Covenant.

[SirCowdog]

I just do both."l

If you call them shitty for their preferences with groups, then you also have no grounds to stand on when they call you shitty(or casual) for not being optimized(whatever that happens to be in their eyes).

Do you see my point here? It's all subjective. And by firing back you actually addd to the toxicity of the game instead of, at the very least, remaining neutral.

I mean we have two sets. Both have a similar structure but which covenant is which varies by class.

1 ST power
1 AoE power
1 hybrid AoE/buff power
1 more PvP oriented/situational power.

Hybrid aside (will likely come down to individual classes), the other three have clear situational merits. In PvP that gives you a clear choice between the PvP utility power and the ST for burst. In PvE you have the choice of specializing in ST or AoE at minimum.

Sounds good on paper. But a lot of stuff does when coming from Blizzard. We'll see what happens when players get their hands on the live version.

[WowIsDead64]

Unless they've done a complete 180 on Covenant design since the reveal(lol nope). Then they will be the Azerite of Shadowlands.

We all know Blizzard is absolutely awful at balancing. Locking player power behind a choice that should be for cosmetic and story purposes is absolutely moronic.

There will be a BEST Covenant ability for your spec/class. It will be the best by a long margin. There will also be an absolute worst.

Then - nerfs and buffs will happen and the pendulum will swing again. But Blizzard has already said they're going to make it extremely hard to switch Covenants.

Why can't these morons open their eyes?

Two things:
1) Covenants are just Class Halls 2.0, cuz yeah, we need to rehash more or less successful ideas from Legion. Same rep grinds, sets, mounts, etc.
2) Blizzard actually try to force players to play at least 4 alts. There is no choice - you will need to have all 4 and grind all crap for them to be optimal.

[catalystical]

Two things:
1) Covenants are just Class Halls 2.0, cuz yeah, we need to rehash more or less successful ideas from Legion. Same rep grinds, sets, mounts, etc.
2) Blizzard actually try to force players to play at least 4 alts. There is no choice - you will need to have all 4 and grind all crap for them to be optimal.

As a filthy casual those are good things. At least Blizzard forcing us to play the game is actually a good thing and not spending gold on the AH like D3 back in the day. I know there are four story lines for me to do across my alts instead of doing the same thing 12 times. But we'll still have to see how the game turns out, of course.

[FelPlague]

Well, we've already seen an example for a DK covenant ability that will basically be must have for PvP.

we havnt seen what the other 3 are, they may be also really good for pvp.