Stupid myths about lore of Warcraft

[Shinrael]

Oh bullshit, Metzen said it was literally the "bible" of Warcraft, meant to contain the exact lore as checked by the internal writers/historians at Blizzard in 2012. To coincide with the Diablo Lore book.

The book came out in 2016. It wasn't even said it was meant to be from "the Titans perspective" and not until after many People had pointed out how new storylines and in-game stuff had gone against the books which were meant to be used as a solid foundation of lore going forward.

Stop defending them for making up shitty excuses to cover up shit tier writers.

Do you know what the Bible is? Like, do you think it is canon or what? :3

[Mardux]

Do you know what the Bible is? Like, do you think it is canon or what? :3

It's pretty obvious. Any chance on you enlightening us, though? Since you think you know more this than everyone else (including metzen).

[sam86]

they were also shocked and surprised by Sargeras' betrayal.

Aman'thul, as the Time Titan, didn't really see anything in the future nor he tried to stop it before Sargeras even became evil.

so people trying to justify it with Well, he saw it coming since he is a time ruler should possibly rethink that.

u can twist it that even if he knew, he didn't want to believe it
but yeah the 'titans pov' for chronicles is bullsh8t, i pre-ordered chronicles 1 and at least until very recent on amazon description it was saying as the definite version of lore, nothing about from any random out of their a88 pov (maybe still same description, but i feel too bitter to even check it)

As for that angry guy shouting, half of them are nonsense, because blizz retconned and sh8tconned on lore so much that u don't even know what is official anymore, easiest example: Shadowlands
If u say that we are first mortals to go shadowlands as they officially stated, it doesn't make sense, we will go shadowlands thanks to shadow priest artifact, which is official lore, and we get it by going - as mortals - to shadowlands, to rescue a human priestess from there, so 2 living mortals at the very minimum went there, if u want to shitcon and remove it, then how did we get the dagger to be able to go to shadowlands next exp?
but hey it sounds 'kooler' to say we are first mortals to go shadowlands, even if it creates a loophole, screw it, just make it sound 'kool'

[Daronokk]

2.We fought only with the avatars of the Old Gods. One of the oldest and most stupid myths. People are too accustomed to think about the great power of the Old Gods and consider it inconceivable that the players defeated them. But the thing is that these were Old Gods weakened by their imprisonment and even after liberation they were very weak. The Chronicles explicitly states that Ktun was very weak after his release and that if he regains full strength, no army can stop him. One of the main arguments of this myth is the size of the Old Gods, because they are too small in the game. Well, you have to remember that we saw the Old Gods the size of a planet, so most likely the size of the Old God is related to his strength. The weaker the Old God, the less he is.

The War of the Ancients books are still canon and state that if freed the Old Gods would defeat Sargeras and let him beg for death.

So either Sargeras is a little bitch or the player characters are gods themselves who make Sargeras and the Old Gods look like jokes. But the Old Gods not being anywhere near a threat to Sargeras in-game reinforces the avatar myth. Couple that with loads of quotes stating that the Old Gods can't die and are outside the cycle of life and death it does make a very solid argument that we only fought their avatars.

Blizzard might state time and again that we did defeat them for real, but none of the stuff in-game reflects that idea. The opposite is seen in quotes and lore.

[sam86]

Stop defending them for making up shitty excuses to cover up shit tier writers.

exactly /10 char

[darkoms]

Oh bullshit, Metzen said it was literally the "bible" of Warcraft, meant to contain the exact lore as checked by the internal writers/historians at Blizzard in 2012. To coincide with the Diablo Lore book.

The book came out in 2016. It wasn't even said it was meant to be from "the Titans perspective" and not until after many People had pointed out how new storylines and in-game stuff had gone against the books which were meant to be used as a solid foundation of lore going forward.

Stop defending them for making up shitty excuses to cover up shit tier writers.

Well, actually Diablo books are just someone’s opinion. This is the opinion of Cain, Tyrael and Adria.

[DemonHunter18]

u can twist it that even if he knew, he didn't want to believe it

yeah, true but I would be a strawnman if I go that route haha.

[Super Kami Dende]

Do you know what the Bible is? Like, do you think it is canon or what? :3

You realise the Word "canon" literally comes from the Bible, since Biblical Canon was meant to be the strictest and utmost truth of writing?

- - - Updated - - -

Well, actually Diablo books are just someone’s opinion. This is the opinion of Cain, Tyrael and Adria.

Yet is considered to be the concrete lore of the game as said by Blizzard.

Like holy fuck Blizzards own Website had it's description listed as "World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1 is a journey through an age of myth and legend, a time long before the Horde and the Alliance came to be. This definitive tome of Warcraft history reveals untold stories about the birth of the cosmos, the rise of ancient empires, and the forces that shaped the world of Azeroth and its people.

Do you know what Definitive means? Like I've already said, Stop defending them for making up shitty excuses to cover up shit tier writers.

[Kyphael]

To me, underrating Lich King Arthas' power, their most popular and marketable character BY FAR, because it's the cool thing to shit on the alpha dog of a franchise, is stupid.

[darkoms]

To me, underrating Lich King Arthas' power, their most popular and marketable character BY FAR, because it's the cool thing to shit on the alpha dog of a franchise, is stupid.

LK's fans are so funny when it comes to their deity
After all, he must be the coolest, the smartest, the most cunning and, most importantly, the most powerful
But in fact, he is even weaker than Lei Shen

[Shinrael]

You realise the Word "canon" literally comes from the Bible, since Biblical Canon was meant to be the strictest and utmost truth of writing?

- - - Updated - - -



Yet is considered to be the concrete lore of the game as said by Blizzard.

Like holy fuck Blizzards own Website had it's description listed as "World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1 is a journey through an age of myth and legend, a time long before the Horde and the Alliance came to be. This definitive tome of Warcraft history reveals untold stories about the birth of the cosmos, the rise of ancient empires, and the forces that shaped the world of Azeroth and its people.

Do you know what Definitive means? Like I've already said, Stop defending them for making up shitty excuses to cover up shit tier writers.

It's pretty obvious. Any chance on you enlightening us, though? Since you think you know more this than everyone else (including metzen).

It is canon to the Christians who wrote it and those who worship God, yes. Is it canon to me? No. Is it canon to Muslims? No. Is it canon to Atheists? No. And it's not canon to a hell lot of people.But it is still canon for some. For them it is the TRUTH. They genuinly believe in it.

Sounds strikingly familiar, huh? Just like Chronicle. Which also happens to be someone's "truth", but twisted in their own vision. And to the void, it is all just lies.

None of this means it is not canon. None of this means that it is not "truth". It simply has some... "plot holes" so to say. Intentional holes. Which anyone, who wants to relay the truth but still twist it in his own benefit, would do. It is still the "definitive tome of Warcraft history". But history too is written by the victors. It is not whole. It is not complete. Definitive, yes, but not the whole truth.

@Mardux this isn't about knowing more or less than everyone else. The guy quoted Metzen's words that the Chronicle is like WoW's Bible, but that argument simply was not in his favour.

[Powerogue]

Sounds strikingly familiar, huh? Just like Chronicle. Which also happens to be someone's "truth", but twisted in their own vision. And to the void, it is all just lies.

And, significantly more important and less likely to derail the thread, it's universally accepted as fiction. Blizzard are writing a story that they find interesting and entertaining. When they think they can make it more of those things, they can and will change it.

It's only been in recent years that they've even bothered trying to have a central, cohesive source for WoW story. I think it's a positive step to having the story be more believable and coherent, but they're certainly not holding themselves to it ironclad.

Several of these "myths" haven't even been defined in canon since Shadowlands isn't out yet. We see these things change sometimes even between PTR and release. Don't tinkle your trousers over them.

[Aucald]

Let's avoid discussing real-world religion and spiritual beliefs and keep the conversation grounded on the mythology and religions of the Warcraft universe.

[Piamonte]

In continuation of my topic about Sveta, I decided to create a theme with all the silly myths about Laura Warcraft, which for some reason are very common among the community and which constantly appear in various discussions.

1.Light is God. Reviewed here https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ght-is-not-God

2.We fought only with the avatars of the Old Gods. One of the oldest and most stupid myths. People are too accustomed to think about the great power of the Old Gods and consider it inconceivable that the players defeated them. But the thing is that these were Old Gods weakened by their imprisonment and even after liberation they were very weak. The Chronicles explicitly states that Ktun was very weak after his release and that if he regains full strength, no army can stop him. One of the main arguments of this myth is the size of the Old Gods, because they are too small in the game. Well, you have to remember that we saw the Old Gods the size of a planet, so most likely the size of the Old God is related to his strength. The weaker the Old God, the less he is.

3.Galakrond is stronger than Aspects. Also a pretty old myth. Apparently, it’s too difficult for people to read the Dawn of the Aspects or at least open Wowpedia and read that the Aspects fought with Galakrond when they were proto-dragons. That was BEFORE they became Aspects. Also a variation of this stupid myth is the claims of Arthas and the Scourge fans that if Arthas could resurrect Galakrond, he would easily defeat the Aspects or Deathwing. No. This is nonsense. Galakrond, dead or alive, has no chance against any of the Aspects, especially against all at once.

4. Aspects received power from the Keepers. Another nonsense from people who can not open the Chronicles. The Keepers only acted as guides for the Titans, they transferred precisely the power of the Titans, and not their own. In the Chronicles it is written that
Ra CHANNELED the powers of Aman'thul
Freya CALLED Eonar
Freya BESEECHED Eonar
Loken CALLED Norgannon
Archaedas ASKED Khaz'goroth

5. The power of Arthas. One of my most hated myths. Many people for some reason are sure that Arthas is some kind of god of death and he is incredibly powerful, because he killed us. Firstly, Arthas did not play with us in battle, he fought with all his fury (Chronicles) and it was a long and difficult fight. Secondly, the same Illidan in the Black Temple quite easily defeated the heroes and Akama, stunned them and prepared to kill them, but Maiev saved them. Thirdly, our help against Arthas was not as steep as against the rest of the bosses. For example, to defeat Ki'lJaeden, who didn’t even come to the full, needed the help of blue dragons and the avatar of the Sunwell, and she could only stun him for a while, sacrificing her life. Well, do not forget that 1 to 1 Arthas is weaker than Lei Shen, as mentioned on Twitter.

6. The Chronicles are not canon. A rather new myth, but no less stupid. In one of their responses, Blizzard called the Chronicles the opinion of the Titans. But after they were asked whether this means that the Chronicles is not a canon, they answered that the Chronicles are still canon, and their answer meant that not all information was disclosed in the Chronicles and therefore there is so little information about the Black Empire and the Shadowlands, but the information that already known is still canon.

7.Azshara was equal in power to Archimonde at the time of Wota. Stupid myth that went from misquoted from Wowpedia. The book itself said that only Archimonde and Sargeras were stronger than Azshara. It was never said that she was equal to Archimonde.

8.Undead are immune to the effects of the Void. Many people think that because the Scourge was immune to the whispers of the Old Gods, all undead have such immunity. No. The Scourge did not hear Yogg-Saron because the Lich King's voice was louder than the whisper of Yogg-Saron. however, do not forget that it was Yogg-Saron, far from its full strength. In one of the Horde quests, there is a Forsaken who complains of a dark whisper, and in the book Storm Fury, the Forsaken and Sylvanas personally were exposed to the Nightmare.

9.The Void is afraid of Death/Sylvanas. Another relatively new myth that emerged from the comic strip about Sylvanas. In this comic strip, Nether creatures shouted for Alleria to kill Sylvanas because she serves a true enemy. But many forget that everything looked as if the Void distorted Alleria's own thoughts. For example, the creatures claimed that Silvermoon's throne belongs to Alleria, but this does not mean that it is true. I mean, the Void wasn’t particularly worried about the endless army of demons with fallen Titan, but Sylvanas? Oh yes, it scares all Void creatures.

10. All undead go into the Maw. The stupid myth that Sylvanas fans came up with based on Edge of Night. It’s easier for them to think that all undead go into the Maw after death than to admit that Sylvanas is so bad that she deserves to be in the Maw.

So, maybe I forgot something, so if you know any other myths, please write.

Arthas is pretty powerful even if leishen can beat him 1v1, undeads are inmune to the void, as they continúe to use saronite far after they broke free from the lich King and we dont know what happens with an undead once it dies, so this is not a myth until proved otherwise.

The Void seems afraid of silvanas, thats for sure.

[Mehrunes]

People (Pyromancer) have been telling you for YEARS that the Chronicles are written from the Titan's perspective and you shat on them and when Blizzard finally confirmed it true, "ermagerd that's just an excuse to make more stories"... Are you for real???

Except it's not even remotely what the Chronicles were marketed as so obvioussly there was nothing to support the notion that it was anything about Titan' perspective. So Pyromancer was talking out of his ass. Blizzard didn't confirm anything here, they outright changed it. And someone being right only because of a retcon doesn't mean they were right prior to the retcon. Never mind that Pyromancer has a cred for making completely unsubstantiated claims and conclusions that don't follow his evidence.

You know, maybe it's just you that and the people like you who weren't smart enough to figure out the *obvious* hints that Blizzard gave us? If you have no clue about the lore ofc every single plot twist will seem like an asspull.

You mean subtle hints like Blizzard's own advertisement? So do tell me more of these subtle hints that only you are smart enough to see. Obviously it can't be the case of you valiantly defending Blizzard no matter what for the hundredth time.

Aman'thul is the being who gave Nozdormu his foreknowledge and access to chronomancy, so it's highly probable the Titans pretty much know everything, past and future, in as much detail as they desire. Given that "the Titans' perspective" is itself nearly omniscient in that sense, it's really not any kind of real demotion in terms of canon. Additionally, we had canon well before "Chronicle" ever existed, so the fact that it's from the Titans' perspective changes nothing insofar as discussing lore is concerned.

Right. That's why that nearly omniscient perspective was already retconned. Which is the very reason why the question about whether Chronicles are still canon or not was even asked in the first place.

Do you know what the Bible is? Like, do you think it is canon or what? :3

Where do you think the word "canon" in context of fiction came from?

Sounds strikingly familiar, huh? Just like Chronicle. Which also happens to be someone's "truth", but twisted in their own vision. And to the void, it is all just lies.

This is not what canon means in literature... The in-story Void doesn't have its own canon.

[Shinrael]

1) Except it's not even remotely what the Chronicles were marketed as so obvioussly there was nothing to support the notion that it was anything about Titan' perspective. So Pyromancer was talking out of his ass. Blizzard didn't confirm anything here, they outright changed it. And someone being right only because of a retcon doesn't mean they were right prior to the retcon. Never mind that Pyromancer has a cred for making completely unsubstantiated claims and conclusions that don't follow his evidence.

2) You mean subtle hints like Blizzard's own advertisement? So do tell me more of these subtle hints that only you are smart enough to see. Obviously it can't be the case of you valiantly defending Blizzard no matter what for the hundredth time

3) Where do you think the word "canon" in context of fiction came from?

4) This is not what canon means in literature... The in-story Void doesn't have its own canon.

1) & 2) Pyromancer has tons of videos about it. If you are curious about the hints, you can watch one of his videos about it. He was not talking out of his ass. He was reading Chronicle line by line and was analyzing it all, pointing out the places which seemed to contradict each other. It's okay to not believe him that Chronicle was written from the Titan's perspective. You have your own opinion, that is fine. But you cannot deny that he was claiming it to be so and you cannot deny the fact that he argumented himself with reasonable examples. It is all there, in his videos. You are simply too proud to accept it or too lazy to even check it out.

3) & 4) I don't understand how your statements relate to the thing I was quoting? The person quoted Metzen saying that Chronicle was WoW's Bible and he used it as an argument that the Chronicle is supposed to be the ultimate truth. But the thing is that the Bible is not an "ultimate truth". It is a biased book written from the "perspective" of someone. So his example only served to prove my point. So what's your point?

[Mehrunes]

@Mardux this isn't about knowing more or less than everyone else. The guy quoted Metzen's words that the Chronicle is like WoW's Bible, but that argument simply was not in his favour.

Except for the part where it most certainly was in @Super Kami Dende's favor. You know what else is in their favor? Blizzard referring to it as an encyclopedia of wow lore and as codification of it. Both of which stand in contrast with an unreliable narrator. Or, I dunno, the part where one of Chronicle's writers flat out said that (unlike the book of Cain) it's not written by a character in the story.


[QUOTE=Shinrael;52216264]1) & 2) Pyromancer has tons of videos about it. If you are curious about the hints, you can watch one of his videos about it. He was not talking out of his ass. He was reading Chronicle line by line and was analyzing it all, pointing out the places which seemed to contradict each other. It's okay to not believe him that Chronicle was written from the Titan's perspective. You have your own opinion, that is fine. But you cannot deny that he was claiming it to be so and you cannot deny the fact that he argumented himself with reasonable examples. It is all there, in his videos. You are simply too proud to accept it or too lazy to even check it out.

I'm sorry, but when have I been denying that he claimed it to be so? Spare me your remarks about how I'm to lazy when you can't even be bothered to properly read what you are replying to (making said remark rather ironic). Meanwhile in the world of things that have actually been said, what I actually claimed is that his entire position contradicted the way Blizzard itself presented and sold the Chronicles, making it irrelevant prior to Blizzard changing their mind. Which part of that didn't you get the first time? I thought you were supposed to be smarter than everyone doubting Blizzard's "totally not a desperate attempt to justify the retcons they already made to the Chronicle".

3) & 4) I don't understand how your statements relate to the thing I was quoting? The person quoted Metzen saying that Chronicle was WoW's Bible and he used it as an argument that the Chronicle is supposed to be the ultimate truth. But the thing is that the Bible is not an "ultimate truth". It is a biased book written from the "perspective" of someone. So his example only served to prove my point. So what's your point?

Except for the part where it is the ultimate truth in its own context. Which is precisely how the word canon gained its usage in wider literature (and later other mediums concerning storytelling like movies and video games). I.e. to describe what is absolutely true for a given setting.

[Shinrael]

Except for the part where it most certainly was in @Super Kami Dende's favor.

Can you though be more specific or will you keep repeating the same thing?

You know what else is in their favor? Blizzard referring to it as an encyclopedia of wow lore and as codification of it. Both of which stand in contrast with an unreliable narrator.

It still IS an encyclopedia. Norgannon was a lorekeeper. He wrote journals, discs of lore, etc. I guess that includes encyclopedias as well. It doesn't contradict it as much as you think. There are biased encyclopedias IRL as well. There are tons of outdated ones too.

And in the end, Chronicle doesn't present us lies. It presents us facts, only that they are missing certain elements which is meant to make us draw wrong conclusions so the Titans or whoever wrote it benefits from it somehow. Or maybe the Titans simply believe it the way they wrote it and aren't aware of their bias, just like how you aren't.

Or, I dunno, the part where one of Chronicle's writers flat out said that (unlike the book of Cain) it's not written by a character in the story.

Source?

[Mehrunes]

10. All undead go into the Maw. The stupid myth that Sylvanas fans came up with based on Edge of Night. It’s easier for them to think that all undead go into the Maw after death than to admit that Sylvanas is so bad that she deserves to be in the Maw..

Which brings me to my next myth. The idea that undead automatically go to hell. This is a false claim and there is literally no indication whatsoever in the story. It's just a lie Sylvanas fanboy come up with to try and justify why Sylvanas went to hell.

The hell are the two of you about? The claim that all undead go to hell predates the revelation about the Maw and other Shadowlands-related stuff (or even Edge of Night, one of the earliest "examples" in "favor" of that claim I can think of is the Crusader Bridenbrad questline) by years and comes from Alliance posters, with Sylvanas/Forsaken fans repeatedly arguing against it. I know "SyLvaNaS fAnBoIs" are literally the boogeyman to some but trying to pin everything you don't like on them is still ridiculous. The actual argument by Sylvanas fans (though not just them) in regards to how Sylvanas going into the Maw is hamfisted by Blizzard is the fact that Kael didn't and he was objectively worse than her when she killed herself.

[Aleksej89]

As long as sylvanas looks more sexy in each video/patch nothing else matters really.

Bring on those hormone pleasing shapes on that undead wench.