Cut off the arm to save the body.

[apustus]

Yeah I bet BfA would have absolutely been redeemed by just not having any azerite gear dropping from Battle for Dazar'alor onwards. Are you fucking stupid? Would the classes be fun to play if all you had was your base toolkit, no azerite traits or essences?

[kamuimac]

And in the past you got the same effects with tier gear with zero negatives.

"without idiotic grind that is only there to boost MAU" you meant

[korijenkins]

Good point, if it wasn't "If I personally don't like this, it should be removed"

I mean the general, universal disdain for their game is probably not a case of a small minority being loud and angry. The sub numbers fucking plummeted like a meteor for a reason.

[kaminaris]

Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.

This is how you spot the bullshit.

Tier sets - available from raid only
Azerite gear - available from anywhere, even casuals can get these bonuses

Tier sets - occupies 4-6 slots, once you got them from highest difficulty you will never change it
Azerite gear - occupies 3 slots, some classes can change traits depending on situation

Tier sets - no vendor, raid drop only
Azerite gear - M+ vendor, can buy cheap but random (one of 6), can buy specific more expensive, can drop specific from raid


Azerite gear is superior in every aspect compared to tier sets. Except for visuals. But those could have been solved like ToV did - ensembles not tied to gear.

[Ghostile]

I mean the general, universal disdain for their game is probably not a case of a small minority being loud and angry. The sub numbers fucking plummeted like a meteor for a reason.

"the sub number"

Which we don't know.

[erifwodahs]

Azerite gear is probably the best thing that has happened to gearing.

Tier sets being more fun is a myth. They did the same thing: give you secondary passives.
But they locked you out of 4-8 pieces of gear and only dropped from that one exact boss. You either had it lucky or you didn't. No alternative.
Hc gloves dropping as an upgrade? Nah, normal gloves are set-pieces.

That is what I have been saying. It's not that is not flawed - far from that. It's just that worst case scenario, you are locked into 3 slots of old gear instead of 4. Or like in some cases wearing 4 new set pieces and 2 old set pieces. That is 6 items locked. And if you don't mythic raid - not a problem, you can just purchase your azerite pieces with currency by just pushing 5 man content while in legion if you did not mythic raid but wanted to push keys - bad news for u.

[Spiffums]

You didn't get the point.
You decide with how much corruption you play, you alone.
And this thread already showed players not wanting ANY corruption while others might go to the barely possible/survivable.

That is great!

My friend decides how much corruption I play with.......she's like I'm not healing your butt if you're gonna try running rank 6 Twilight Dev. Maybe I can get her to let me run rank 5........

[Mirishka]

Good point, if it wasn't "If I personally don't like this, it should be removed"

Don't forget "I don't personally like this so clearly, nobody likes it".

[erifwodahs]

The moment a player needs outside resources to play a game, resources not even delivered by Blizzard themselves, you have failed as a game company.

that is player created problem. The strife for perfection. Did blizzard give bis lists for Vanilla players? Instead of hitting a mob for 3 hours testing how +12 hit rating affected your dps compared to +12 crit is dumb, we can let others do the math. Also, addons. WoW was failed since an addon came to existance (like questhelper or mobinfo). "It's not the same! You can read quests!" - Yeah sure, you can hit dummy for 3 hours too! Dummies are placed in towns for those who need to practice and test their gear.
Have you ever used wowhead to find a mob or an item? Have you ever looked up a drop rate of an item or what mob drops it the best? Have you ever watched a boss fight guide? You don't even need to use sims. You can look up combat logs and inspect best performing players to see what they have done and how and replicate that like I used to do back in a day (not checking logs, just watching their rota, but screenshotting gear and talents)

[tankbug]

Azerite gear was a downgrade from the artifact weapons, but it ends there. You can't do vanilla gearing once more and expect people to embrace it. You need to be extend your character in many ways, rewarded for your time every day, not a faint promise of an über item in a month if you work hard and group up with the right people.

[Azerate]

This only sounds good in theory. They created the azerite system and nothing else. If you commited to a system, and you don't have an alternative ready, you can't just delete it and leave nothing in its place...

[erifwodahs]

Player created problem? There is basically NOTHING in the game teaching you. They are getting more lazy by the day, even GM's referencing to websites not owned by Blizzard for answers. How come you can't play the game without add ons? How did a game get so reliable on add ons? Player created problem? Sure...

Players created problem by using addons on simple things. Blizz are creating encounters because MAJORITY of players are using addons. I started in BC and what was first thing I had to do? go to thotbot or WH to find where my quest mobs are. Instead of reading through all the RP of the quests I CHOSE to go to wowhead and then eventually get a questhelper.
Game kills you if you stand in fire, that is how it is teaching you. It has in game boss guides which are not bad.
Have you seen how many games have they walk through online? Runescape is a failed game I guess since day one too.
You can play without any addons just perfect. Bosses have quite good projecting of their attacks and and timers are marked with voice lines.
The secret finding community is player created thing too, is that a failure by blizzard that hundred thousand players are working together to figure something out ?

[Kehego]

Azerite gear was a downgrade from the artifact weapons, but it ends there. You can't do vanilla gearing once more and expect people to embrace it. You need to be extend your character in many ways, rewarded for your time every day, not a faint promise of an über item in a month if you work hard and group up with the right people.

Yeah, the weapons where relics were stuck in and you had to play that one build until you got different relics.
Azerite is akin to having duplicate legion artifacts with different relics.

[Rucati]

This is how you spot the bullshit.

Tier sets - available from raid only
Azerite gear - available from anywhere, even casuals can get these bonuses

Tier sets - occupies 4-6 slots, once you got them from highest difficulty you will never change it
Azerite gear - occupies 3 slots, some classes can change traits depending on situation

Tier sets - no vendor, raid drop only
Azerite gear - M+ vendor, can buy cheap but random (one of 6), can buy specific more expensive, can drop specific from raid


Azerite gear is superior in every aspect compared to tier sets. Except for visuals. But those could have been solved like ToV did - ensembles not tied to gear.

I'm with you 100%, I think Azerite gear is really good now. It was legitimately terrible (borderline broken?) in the beginning because your neck didn't level fast enough, so you couldn't replace your gear with higher ilvl items or you'd lose the traits. That hasn't been a problem in a long time though, and it's way better than tier sets now. You can pick the traits you want for different situation, only uses 3 item slots, and there's tons of ways to get the pieces you need.

In the same way I think essences are really good. They may not be perfectly balanced, but that could be fixed a bit, and they give you some unique ways to tweak your character to fit your playstyle or what type of content you're doing. Again, they were trash at first, but now that they're essentially account wide I really like them.

I just don't get why people look at tier sets so fondly, it was literally 8 pieces of gear you literally never removed once you got until the next raid came out, and even then you wore 4 pieces of it until you collected all 8 from the new raid. And every single person wore it regardless of class, because it was just always really good so it left no variety. Was such boring design.

[VinceVega]

Sure, tier gear was mostly shit secondaries but that's also the case with corrupted items and I don't put that negative on the same level as

Also, Legion legendaries. From each point I look at corrupted gear, I only see a downgraded system.

I like the concept of corruption. The only two things i would change are badluck protection for Infinti stars, Twilight devastation and Gushing wounds and a way for you to "buy" specific corruptions after getting to rank 15 with your cloak.

I still have not ONE of the BIS effects. Still can raid Mythic. Just have to work harder than others. But it is annyoing.

Tier sets on the other hand have always been just annoying (for me)... stupid effects needed to farm LFR until you have the 4-set bonus... and keep them until you get a better piece... nah i have nothing but bad memories from tier sets.
Mechanic wise. Not aestethics. That i truely miss

[StillMcfuu]

Conceptually, I think Corruption and Azerite were great ideas. Their implementation is what's broken. For both Azerite and Corruption there are too many options and unfortunately 1 or 2 "right answers."

You can't introduce a system with 20 options where 1 or 2 are 100% better than the next closest option.
Azerite would have worked better if there were only 5 choices in total, and each one was significant like a 6pc tier set.
Corruption would have been great if there were no on hit damage effects and they actually either lowered a cooldown or procc'ed an ability for an empowered usage.

The current state, they are a mess and there is pretty much only 1 or 2 sets people want.

They also need to start doing empowered tiers through vendors, so what's important is the skill you got, not the skill, and what tier.

[Nnyco]

I literally remove corruption from every character i got.
I aint doing progressive raiding nor top mythic+ so i dont need whatever damage bonuses corruption effects give.

I was trying to find a way to enjoy the corruption mechanic for weeks but in the end just removing it was the best choice for my enjoyment of gameplay.
No bullsh*t slow, no suicide illusions, no purple eye... awful unfun mechanics.

Thats not how corruption works, but sure you do you. But dont complain when youre bottom dps.

[Eosia]

Good point, if it wasn't "If I personally don't like this, it should be removed"

And coming at the end of the expansion when the next major patch is going to deactivate corrupted gear and Azerite.

[lollerlaban]

Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.

It's pretty clear you simply don't understand how game development works. You can't just remove it when you ship it, their entire expansion is built up around it and features like these were implemented 2-3 years ago when they already started building the expansion.

[Nullp0inter]

I like the concept of corruption. The only two things i would change are badluck protection for Infinti stars, Twilight devastation and Gushing wounds and a way for you to "buy" specific corruptions after getting to rank 15 with your cloak.

I still have not ONE of the BIS effects. Still can raid Mythic. Just have to work harder than others. But it is annyoing.

Tier sets on the other hand have always been just annoying (for me)... stupid effects needed to farm LFR until you have the 4-set bonus... and keep them until you get a better piece... nah i have nothing but bad memories from tier sets.
Mechanic wise. Not aestethics. That i truely miss

Agree. I never meant to defend tier set bonuses, but just give some examples that additional gear bonuses were available before without such punishing drawbacks. For example Grand Delusions can literally one-shot you in some cases where you're debuffed or can't escape, because of class or cooldowns. Yes, I get the point you are corrupted and you take the risk for a great reward, it's just quite punishing for what it offers.

Sure you can run without corruption, at least that's an option if all you do is pet battles.