Stupid myths about lore of Warcraft

[Shinrael]

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You have perfectly disproven yourself here. The point is that the Chronicle was not written from the Titans' perspective, it was written from Blizzard's perspective as they wanted to present things.

So you'd be completely right, if your premise was true - but it's not. Chronicle was a book written from the POV of Blizzard narrators, not Titans. The whole Titan POV thing was retconned into it later, to justify other retcons.

But that's the thing, you do NOT know that. Blizzard said that it was written from the Titan's perspective. Who are you to claim it is not? If multiple people were able to figure out that it was indeed written by the Titan's perspective, then that means Blizzard didn't retcon that just now. It was always there. YOU didn't catch it. Just get over yourself.

[DeltrusDisc]

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[sam86]

The please give me an example of a retcon, and I asure you that I can explain to you why it is just your lack of knowledge on the subject.

really ? u REALLY want to challenge us in that?
explain how demons are one and same across all universes, yet their own boss - Sargeras himself - who is more powerful than the rest of legion, has a new version in each universe
Explain why demons act as total retards like they never learned anything from fighting us, yet they still 'keep memories' from our encounter
Explain why killing Tichondrius is a big deal in wc3, when it was merely a setback (and same for every single demon in wc3, how did Arthas avenge himself by killing Malganis when it was merely a setback?)
Explain why illidan decided to enslave the broken who already swore to serve him willingly in first place
Explain why Argus has a world soul (aka titan), when it was stated multiple times even during Legion that there is no known titan beside Azeroth outside of the pantheon ?
Explain why Sylvanas was even self thinking in a way that is opposite to how she acts in BFA, was she trying to trick her own inner mind or she knows that we players are reading her thoughts ?
Explain Garrosh change in-lore, not using the actual quote from Alex himself that 'half of team didn't get memo' in interview with wowjoystick at Nov 11 2014 (website sadly down but i still bookmarked it), because even blizz own lore team flat out admit they just forgot he became anti-hero in cata and actually care about horde and decided to make him MoP main villain while developing it
Explain how the FUCK is chronicles - that had the tagline definite edition of wow timeline/lore and i fucking pre-ordered it for that reason - is from titans 'pov', when titans died in first place ages ago and no way in egypt know half of the stuff that happened in azeroth in first place, specially since chronicles confirm that (we have depressed Ra'den for that reason if u forgot)

Seriously don't even try to explain their shit when they themselves admit they fucked up many times, since TBC when they decided to make illidan the villain because - literally their own words - 'he drop epics' (and then u get banned on official forums heh)

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You have perfectly disproven yourself here. The point is that the Chronicle was not written from the Titans' perspective, it was written from Blizzard's perspective as they wanted to present things.

So you'd be completely right, if your premise was true - but it's not. Chronicle was a book written from the POV of Blizzard narrators, not Titans. The whole Titan POV thing was retconned into it later, to justify other retcons.

it is called shitcon not retcon
retcon is improving, like what wc3 did to wc2 generic story, or i admit half of what wow did
the problem is the other half, they shitconned so hard it ruinned everything, even wc2 generic boring story is now far better than wow lore overall

[Shinrael]

You're the one who capitalized The Bible and made an obvious jab at it as if to say it isn't true, which none of us are here to debate, I respect your opinion on it, that's not what I care about. What you obviously aren't understanding is how it was phrased, to be the bible of something IS to be the ultimate source of knowledge.
The Titans might come close, but we all know they have their biases, too. They have their enemies in the story - i.e. the Void and the Burning Legion (Fel).
Chronicles was originally supposed to be a compendium of the history of the Warcraft universe, written by the Blizzard narrators. Only sometime later did Blizzard backtrack and say, "oh... oh it's supposed to be from the Titan's perspective."
I think if that had been the case all along, Metzen would have phrased it as such, maybe said "this is The Titan's account of the history" - but it isn't, though I suppose now it is.

I will be honest with you. I defend Blizzard on this particular case, because I would have executed all of this in a similar manner. I would have lied to the playerbase that it is the ultimate truth and later reveal that it was actually written from a character's perspective. I even had this idea that all of WoW's books should have been written from a character's perspective and put into the game world (I think I got that idea from some lore excerpts in the forms of books in-game in the libraries of Stormwind, Scarlet Monastery, etc).

I am not saying that Blizzard lied to us on this. I still stand by the statement that Chronicle being written by the Titans does not contradict the fact it is the "definitive source". I sincerely doubt they just decided to retcon it now though. I appreciate that most of you people don't have much faith in Blizzard, but if you have NONE at all what are you even doing here. This isn't even some incredible plot twist or anything. It is predictable. I thought about it the moment they announced Chronicle. Because that is what I originally had wanted. I simply don't make videos about it because well.. I don't make videos. So unlike Pyro I can't link you my 5 years old video and tell you "haha here see? I did predict it".

BUT even if they did lie when they advertised Chronicle, I don't understand what's wrong with it? It does not take away from the value of the book. One of WoW's lore's charms is the mystery. Up until Chronicle, the Old Gods and the Titans were all largely a mystery, but Chronicle revealed many facts about them. That would have left WoW with 0 mystery to explore. The way they wrote Chronicle is the only way to still keep having mystery in the game. Have some missing information or heck even INCORRECT information. But have a good reason for that incorrect information (the Titan's bias or w/e) or else it'd just be... incorrect information.

So no, I don't think Metzen would have phrased it any different. He was the MASTERMIND behind WoW's lore twists (the IDEA guy, not the writer guy). He of all people must have known that the lore will come in this direction. Heck, they had these ideas 20 years ago when they were creating the first Warcraft games. Who knows how much more twisted their ideas must be now. Their inability to execute them in all their glory ingame is a different topic (on which I make no statements, just don't mix the two up). But let's give them credit where credit is due. If you didn't foresee this twist, then appreciate it and try to foresee the next one. You will see how quickly the supposed "retcons" become well planned plot twists.

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[Chonar]

Who the fuck is Laura Warcraft.

[DeltrusDisc]

I will be honest with you. I defend Blizzard on this particular case, because I would have executed all of this in a similar manner. I would have lied to the playerbase that it is the ultimate truth and later reveal that it was actually written from a character's perspective. I even had this idea that all of WoW's books should have been written from a character's perspective and put into the game world (I think I got that idea from some lore excerpts in the forms of books in-game in the libraries of Stormwind, Scarlet Monastery, etc).

I am not saying that Blizzard lied to us on this. I still stand by the statement that Chronicle being written by the Titans does not contradict the fact it is the "definitive source". I sincerely doubt they just decided to retcon it now though. I appreciate that most of you people don't have much faith in Blizzard, but if you have NONE at all what are you even doing here. This isn't even some incredible plot twist or anything. It is predictable. I thought about it the moment they announced Chronicle. Because that is what I originally had wanted. I simply don't make videos about it because well.. I don't make videos. So unlike Pyro I can't link you my 5 years old video and tell you "haha here see? I did predict it".

BUT even if they did lie when they advertised Chronicle, I don't understand what's wrong with it? It does not take away from the value of the book. One of WoW's lore's charms is the mystery. Up until Chronicle, the Old Gods and the Titans were all largely a mystery, but Chronicle revealed many facts about them. That would have left WoW with 0 mystery to explore. The way they wrote Chronicle is the only way to still keep having mystery in the game. Have some missing information or heck even INCORRECT information. But have a good reason for that incorrect information (the Titan's bias or w/e) or else it'd just be... incorrect information.

So no, I don't think Metzen would have phrased it any different. He was the MASTERMIND behind WoW's lore twists (the IDEA guy, not the writer guy). He of all people must have known that the lore will come in this direction. Heck, they had these ideas 20 years ago when they were creating the first Warcraft games. Who knows how much more twisted their ideas must be now. Their inability to execute them in all their glory ingame is a different topic (on which I make no statements, just don't mix the two up). But let's give them credit where credit is due. If you didn't foresee this twist, then appreciate it and try to foresee the next one. You will see how quickly the supposed "retcons" become well planned plot twists.

Edit: Also I made no jabs at the Bible. If that is how it seemed, I had no such intentions, so apologies. And to me capitalizing the Bible doesn't change the meaning of the word at all. Maybe if I was a Christian it would have, I don't know.

Alright then.

[Jinnobi]

1) Under normal circumstances? Sure. In the context of a fantasy game with twists and tentacles and void gods and mysteries and ancient philosophies... No.

Chris Metzen isn't a Warcraft character.
He is commenting on a real-world book, using real-world, common metaphor.
To call Chronicles the "bible" of Warcraft lore is to say it's the ultimate compendium and the final say.

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6) I mean... I don't know how to argue with your imaginary conspiracies so I will just leave you to it.

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[Shinrael]

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Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

I will be honest with you. I defend Blizzard on this particular case, because I would have executed all of this in a similar manner. I would have lied to the playerbase that it is the ultimate truth and later reveal that it was actually written from a character's perspective. I even had this idea that all of WoW's books should have been written from a character's perspective and put into the game world (I think I got that idea from some lore excerpts in the forms of books in-game in the libraries of Stormwind, Scarlet Monastery, etc).

That's some stellar business plan you got there.

I am not saying that Blizzard lied to us on this. I still stand by the statement that Chronicle being written by the Titans does not contradict the fact it is the "definitive source".

It totally does not contradict the statement of one of its writers that it's not written by a character in the story in the slightest either.

I sincerely doubt they just decided to retcon it now though. I appreciate that most of you people don't have much faith in Blizzard, but if you have NONE at all what are you even doing here.

I'm sorry, is there some requirement that people frequenting MMO-C have to say their Hail Blizzard full of grace (and top notch storytelling, especially in the consistency department) five times a day? I must have missed that change.

This isn't even some incredible plot twist or anything. It is predictable. I thought about it the moment they announced Chronicle. Because that is what I originally had wanted. I simply don't make videos about it because well.. I don't make videos. So unlike Pyro I can't link you my 5 years old video and tell you "haha here see? I did predict it".

Given how you opened this post with admitting that you'd like all warcraft books to be written from a character's perspective (even though it doesn't make sense for the stark majority of them) and would outright lie to the playerbase to achieve that if it were up to you in a similar manner to what Blizzard did about Chronicles (though you also claim that they didn't lie, so kudos for Blizzard-level of consistency) everything you said here falls under your confirmation bias.

BUT even if they did lie when they advertised Chronicle, I don't understand what's wrong with it?

Are you seriously asking what's wrong with false advertising?

It does not take away from the value of the book. One of WoW's lore's charms is the mystery. Up until Chronicle, the Old Gods and the Titans were all largely a mystery, but Chronicle revealed many facts about them. That would have left WoW with 0 mystery to explore. The way they wrote Chronicle is the only way to still keep having mystery in the game. Have some missing information or heck even INCORRECT information. But have a good reason for that incorrect information (the Titan's bias or w/e) or else it'd just be... incorrect information.

Except none of your excuses here are true. Blizzard made it blatantly clear from the get go that Chronicle doesn't cover everything. The addition of new things, including new mysteries, was in no way mutually exclusive with Chronicles as they were initially presented as.

So no, I don't think Metzen would have phrased it any different. He was the MASTERMIND behind WoW's lore twists (the IDEA guy, not the writer guy). He of all people must have known that the lore will come in this direction. Heck, they had these ideas 20 years ago when they were creating the first Warcraft games. Who knows how much more twisted their ideas must be now. Their inability to execute them in all their glory ingame is a different topic (on which I make no statements, just don't mix the two up). But let's give them credit where credit is due. If you didn't foresee this twist, then appreciate it and try to foresee the next one. You will see how quickly the supposed "retcons" become well planned plot twists.

You mean the Metzen that publicly said he was surprised even by events at the start of BfA? And just because you like a retcon doesn't make that retcon more than a retcon. There's no "twist". There's only Blizzard lazy retconning things waaaaaay after the fact. And they did that only to have an excuse for the fact they already retconned the Chronicles. Kinda the reason why that Blizzcon question was asked in the first place. There was nothing to foresee there as you can't foresee a retcon. So what credit where credit is due are you talking about? The due credit here is criticism and mockery of their sloppiness and their craptastic excuses for that. The only way to see Blizzard' incompetence as well planned anything is to gouge out your eyes and flush them down the drain. They can't even keep their story straight in the span of two consecutive patches at times so even if there is a plan they can't stick to it whatsoever.

Which part? I remember "I didn't really want to be warchief, I'd rather do stuff in the shadows like I'm used to." paraphrased. I don't see how that's contradicted in-game. Both were written by the same person. The only contradictions I've found are between people's headcanons that desperately tried to warp her actions as justified and the following expansion.

Given how you can't even keep your narrative about the events of BfA straight and all the versions of it are contradicted by the book (kinda the reason why you keep changing it) you're not exactly in any position to claim anything about the "only contradiction you've found" being people' headcanon.

For god's sake, your own example of Sylvanas being warchief is already one, because in the Blizzcon reveals we learned that she wanted the position and did certain things in order to obtain it. Her motivations for war changed twice since BtS. BtS itself also changed a lot of prior lore like her attitude towards Lordaeronian heritage of the Forsaken, what undead are considered Forsaken (including by Sylvanas) and so on.

You'd think word would spread fast that Sylvanas won the stalemate at Lordaeron by unleashing the former servants of the Lich King...

The former servant of the Lich King leading an entire faction of former servants of the Lich King unleashed former servants of the Lich King? You truly thought this argument against Sylvanas through

We can only really gauge based off the examples they've put in the game/canon. Generally there seem to be different rules agreed upon depending on the participants and situation, with some commonalities.

Movie: No shirts, no weapons. Cheating: Using soul-draining magic that prevents the opponent fighting back.
WotLK pre-event: Typical armor and weapons. Magic allowed, no one used anything that prevented the opponent fighting back. Interrupted by zombie dragons.
Cataclysm book: Melee weapons, can be blessed. Cheating: Poison that prevents opponent fighting back.
WOD: Typical armor and weapons. Thrall himself considered it dishonorable that he used magic to prevent his opponent fighting back. Elements seem to agree with him.
BFA: Melee weapons only. Shadow-imbued daggers maybe questionable, but pulling out hidden mystery magic to 1-shot opponent obviously cheating, and she forfeited by fleeing the scene.

That's not even a full list of Mak'goras and some you left out (your deep knowledge of all lore indicates you did so deliberately) are those that included more magic. There is indication that Thrall's issue is his own mental block (after all, why would Azerothian Elementals give a damn what AU Draeonor' Elementals thought about Thrall' Mak'gora and how would they even learn it). Even that aside, the issue with Elemental magic would be the inclusion of other entities (i.e. the Elementals) into what is supposed to be a 1v1 fight. No one questioned Sylvanas' usage of magic. And how exactly does one forfeit a duel after their opponent is already dead? Also what @Sangris said about the wotlk Mak'gora.

I was referring to the fact that Sylvanas won the Battle of Lordaeron by using Val'kyrs to mass-ressurect former Alliance soldiers and then manipulating them to attack the Alliance. I'm surprised Voss or any other Horde member were so shocked by what Sylvanas did to Derek in BfA when she was already doing those horrible things in Cataclysm.

Except for the part where most of the people raised at Lordaeron were Horde. Not that manipulating people equals mind control.

Another myth is that Sylvanas started using mind-control in BfA with Derek. It's not, she was already mind-controlling undead as far back as Cataclysm. Evidence is Invasion of Gilneas and Battle of Andorhal, where ex-Alliance soldiers started yelling Forsaken war cries upon being raised.

If anything, what is surprising is that people like Voss started being shocked by this only when she raised Derek. Did Voss not hear what Sylvanas was doing in Andorhal?

Dear god. Blizzard outright addressed that issue in Ask a CDev and flat out contradicted you. Trying to mask you fanfiction under the guise of "correcting" "myths" that you made up on the spot is some special kind of peddling headcanon. Never mind that even Derek wasn't mind controlled and Sylvanas' stated goals for him indicated brainwashing him, which is not mind control (especially in the extreme form of it that's mental puppetry that Lich King did to the Forsaken).

"Beyon issuing marching orders" so telling them to kill their former comrades. Blizzard even said they were granted the usual choice Forsaken are given only after the battle was over, and of course only if they were not destroyed in the fighting. Sylvanas violated Forsaken free will long before she started messing with Derek.

None of that even remotely validates your previous claim. And if they were given the choice to join the Forsaken or not only after the "violation", how did she violate Forsaken free will again? Never mind that manipulating someone isn't an issue of free will.

She outsmarted everyone else outsmarting. She was lying even to the writer because she knew her brain was being checked up at that moment.

Maybe Sylvanas' actions and even her thoughts are determined by Randotron from Rick and Morty? That would explain everything! And if that turns out to be true via retcon I'll be top tier theory-crafter /s

Okay, you stuck me with the Eredar thing, you are right on that one. My point is, people on these forums are always screaming "retcon". Illidan is back? Retcon. Helm of Domination was not made by the Nathrezim? Retcon. Sylvanas is stronger than Bolvar? Retcon.

If we really look into the details, we can find inconsistencies, for example before Shadowlands Sylvanas demonstrated everywhere that she didn't want to be Warchief because she needed secrecy to execute her plans, and now it was always her plan to become Warchief. You can do that on every story, the best writers make less inconsistencies but wow's writers were never acused of being good. Yet people on this forums make it like its the end of the world, nothing matters and its impossible to discuss anything because they do whatever the hell they want with the previous lore, which is a straight up lie.

I have asked some people the same question I asked you, and in the end, its always their lack of knowledge instead of actual retcon.

*Acknowledges a retcon provides an example of another retcon*
"In the end it's always people's lack of knowledge of an actual retcon"

Very convincing.

[ravenmoon]

10. All undead go into the Maw. The stupid myth that Sylvanas fans came up with based on Edge of Night. It’s easier for them to think that all undead go into the Maw after death than to admit that Sylvanas is so bad that she deserves to be in the Maw.

So, maybe I forgot something, so if you know any other myths, please write.

Danuser and Afrisiabi are Sylvanas' biggest fans, better start believing the Sylvanas fans, the story writer leads are on their side.

[Aucald]

To reiterate: Avoid discussing real-world religion and spiritual beliefs and keep the conversation grounded on the mythology and religions of the Warcraft universe. If you want to use the term "bible," use it in the secular and non-specific sense. Don't allude to or insinuate any specific real-world religious texts.

[Eurhetemec]

YA-tier? Can you explain what that is? I've read some of her books, but not sure I know what YA-tier means lol

YA novels are "Young Adult" novels, which basically an entire meta-genre of novels, which are mostly themselves genre novels (fantasy, sci-fi, horror, detective, romance, even stuff like spy novels), but ones where the intended audience is like 13-14+, and usually the main characters, are, at least in the first book, 16-24-ish (maybe a little younger, or even rarely a little older).

They have a reputation as being written in a somewhat formulaic way (certain tropes come up a lot) and with straightforward dialogue and so on, but it's still, in general, a level of writing that's higher than computer game writing generally is. So I was saying it's not a very effective insult. The dialogue in modern WoW is better than any other MMO except SWTOR (WoW's nadir, dialogue-wise, was Cataclysm, where most of the writing in the expansion at release was absolutely shit-tier trash, not like YA or whatever, but like "edgy 15 year old trying too hard". No other expansion is even nearly as bad, I have no idea what happened there, though I suspect cocaine was involved).

A good example of a YA novel is The Hunger Games.

[Terongor]

It is up to the person who compared Chronicle to the "Bible" to decide what meaning that comparison holds. It was Chris Metzen who did it and so neither of you can argue whether he meant it as "definitive lore" or as "a biased book that contains some true facts as well".



No, it is speculation. He doesn't lose any credibility or anything. The entire point of his videos is to consider what infinite possibilities there are. Speculation for the sake of speculation. His fans watch him because they enjoy how he can make their "brains tremble". And my brain trembles even more when one of those crazy theories ends up true. That's all there is to it.

I'd say it is too early for all of them. His theories aren't white or black. They contain multiple points which connect to a deeper conclusion. Even if the final conclusion is different from the actual reality, some of his points still stand true. He just drew wrong conclusions based on them.



Not trying to prove anything wrong. I am basing myself off common sense.
And I am not atheist. Not at all. Atheists don't believe in any gods. Whereas I believe in a lot of things. And very strongly. I won't mention anything else here because that will simply get the thread closed.

And I am not "believing" or "praying" to Pyro. I see his theories. I like his theories. I agree with some of his theories. That's all there is to it.

So you are saying his theory about odyn being boss in bfa could still be right? or retunr of Ki'thix? or that the shadowlands "leaked" map was right? or the theory about legion and old gods working together? or sylvanas being agent of n'zoth? or g'huun being a true old god? explain to them how these can be still right in anyway.
Speculation for the sake of speculation is stupid as only people who don't care about being correct listen to it and being correct is the only goal.

[Traveler Voltin]

Thought you were talking about dragging the death knight off to be tortured and brainwashed, which was in a cellar and the only place Sylvanas took off her disguise.

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We can only really gauge based off the examples they've put in the game/canon. Generally there seem to be different rules agreed upon depending on the participants and situation, with some commonalities.

Movie: No shirts, no weapons. Cheating: Using soul-draining magic that prevents the opponent fighting back.
WotLK pre-event: Typical armor and weapons. Magic allowed, no one used anything that prevented the opponent fighting back. Interrupted by zombie dragons.
Cataclysm book: Melee weapons, can be blessed. Cheating: Poison that prevents opponent fighting back.
WOD: Typical armor and weapons. Thrall himself considered it dishonorable that he used magic to prevent his opponent fighting back. Elements seem to agree with him.
BFA: Melee weapons only. Shadow-imbued daggers maybe questionable, but pulling out hidden mystery magic to 1-shot opponent obviously cheating, and she forfeited by fleeing the scene.

So much like the orcish sense of honor, it changes constantly, but there's some vague commonalities to look out for.

Did you play a shaman in legion because it sounds like you didnt.
Thrall lost connection to elements due to self doubt. He felt like he used them for revenge not justice. Its all in his head.

[Powerogue]

Explain why Sylvanas was even self thinking in a way that is opposite to how she acts in BFA, was she trying to trick her own inner mind or she knows that we players are reading her thoughts ?

Everyone's asserting this and no one's providing a quote. Pompous windbags on this forum have made me re-read that book at least 10 times to "prove them right" (and they were wrong, every single time), you guys do it for once.

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Did you play a shaman in legion because it sounds like you didnt.
Thrall lost connection to elements due to self doubt. He felt like he used them for revenge not justice. Its all in his head.

I watched the Nobbel87 video, and it's not clarified which it is. Thrall believes Doomhammer abandoned him because of these things. Doomhammer seems to have at least some ability to act of its own accord as it is protected by a shield of the elements from the Legion until a more worthy master (you) comes in.

[Traveler Voltin]

Everyone's asserting this and no one's providing a quote. Pompous windbags on this forum have made me re-read that book at least 10 times to "prove them right" (and they were wrong, every single time), you guys do it for once.

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I watched the Nobbel87 video, and it's not clarified which it is. Thrall believes Doomhammer abandoned him because of these things. Doomhammer seems to have at least some ability to act of its own accord as it is protected by a shield of the elements from the Legion until a more worthy master (you) comes in.

Well that is your first mistake. Never rely on Youtubers. Always do research yourself.

[sam86]

Everyone's asserting this and no one's providing a quote. Pompous windbags on this forum have made me re-read that book at least 10 times to "prove them right" (and they were wrong, every single time), you guys do it for once

there are too many examples, but ok
She never talk about 'her long dream' to attack stormwind prior to Before the storm, we have her in stories many times, the list is way too long but edge of night talk that her (pre shitcon) dream was to stay alive and secure future for her ppl, something she decide later nah they exist just to fuel maw to make her one shot LK

Before the storm talks about her 'long dream', wow entire timeline is less than 8 years, for an immortal undead who was high elf in first place, 8 years is very short time

Also Nobble is alliance biased and he fails in hiding it, he has his fav characters (like anyone of course) but for someone who claims neutrality he doesn't show it, and if use him as reference he himself mocked many times lot of stuff in wow, including sylvanas BFA behavior

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Danuser and Afrisiabi are Sylvanas' biggest fans, better start believing the Sylvanas fans, the story writer leads are on their side.

Afrisiabi too?
I mean Danuser is well known and documented, but Afrisiabi that's first time, the only thing i recorded from him is his quote about how 'half of team didn't get the memo' when he was explaining why Garrosh changed 180 in MoP and became villain and act exact opposite of his cata version
Any proof about Afrisiabi (also not really needed with how obvious Sylvanas control over lore team)

[Powerogue]

there are too many examples, but ok
She never talk about 'her long dream' to attack stormwind prior to Before the storm, we have her in stories many times, the list is way too long but edge of night talk that her (pre shitcon) dream was to stay alive and secure future for her ppl, something she decide later nah they exist just to fuel maw to make her one shot LK

Thanks for having me re-read that.

That's the best laugh I've had all week.

"Before her waited a grotesque, quivering mass of corpses, their armor piecemeal, their bodies broken, the stench unimaginable. Their plaintive, desperate gazes reminded her suddenly of children. They disgusted her. But their need empowered her."

"I did pity the forsaken." -BFA loyalist epilogue.

Ho-ly crap. I am gutted. That's the best find we've had all thread.

Keep reading, it only gets better. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

[Mehrunes]

Everyone's asserting this and no one's providing a quote. Pompous windbags on this forum have made me re-read that book at least 10 times to "prove them right" (and they were wrong, every single time), you guys do it for once.

Are you trying to reach Olympic gold in dissonance? First of all, every time you've reread that book you somehow got completely different conclusions about whole chapters of it, completely discrediting you and your rereading from the get go. Let alone your ridiculous claims that it's "pompous windbags on this forum" that were wrong "every single time" and you were right. You changing key elements of your claims on the spot and moving the goalposts at light speed is kinda mutually exclusive with the idea that you've ever been right about that book.

Especially since the very reason you had to reread the book in the first place is because those "pompous windbags" provided you with quotes completely destroying your made up narratives like how Elsie died immediately after Sylvanas sounded the horn or how Sylvanas knew for a fact that some of the Forsaken she had killed were innocent. And that contradicts your last remark here about how people "made you" reread the book so that you'd prove them right. That's some severely revisionist bullshit. Even putting aside how you reread the book (and did so on your own volition) because your headcanon has been exposed for what it is no one asked you to prove them right because that's not how argumentation works.

Likewise, plenty of people provided you quotes showing how Sylvanas' own thoughts on things like her reason for war were already different in A Good War, let alone by the time of the Shadowlands reveal and the ending to loyalist questline. Or how she didn't want to be Warchief in Before the Storm but Blizzconn info revealed that she actually did want that and was doing things with that goal in mind. This is industry grade fabrication you've got here. But whatever lets you pretend you haven't been peddling fanfiction about that book left and right.

Thanks for having me re-read that.

That's the best laugh I've had all week.

"Before her waited a grotesque, quivering mass of corpses, their armor piecemeal, their bodies broken, the stench unimaginable. Their plaintive, desperate gazes reminded her suddenly of children. They disgusted her. But their need empowered her."

"I did pity the forsaken." -BFA loyalist epilogue.

Ho-ly crap. I am gutted. That's the best find we've had all thread.

Keep reading, it only gets better. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

Are you seriously trying to stitch up a counterargument to what @sam86 said by clinging to the flashback part of the Edge of Night? The bit you quoted is about Sylvanas organizing the free undead into an army for the first time. Her opinions from six goddamn years prior to the events of Edge of Night itself say squat about her stance of mind right then and there. Not that pity and disgust are even the same feeling so your haphazardly mixed "argument" is a flop on every single count imaginable.

Meanwhile in the actual time period of Edge of Night we had Sylvanas lash out at the idea of Garrosh squandering her people that were hers body and soul. Then in Silverpine in her exchange with Garrosh she was concerned with the plight of the Forsaken and found a solution through Val'kyr to secure their future (you know, what sam86 was talking about). And then in Cities in Dust at the end of Silverpine she's reaffirmed even more than the Val'kyr are the way to go for herself and her people.

If that was the best laugh you've had all week then sorry to break it to you but the joke's on you. Thanks for showing how meaningless you rereading anything is for the validity of your arguments though. It's nice of you to expose yourself how your accusations in the previous post were a bunch of fabricated hogwash.

[Varodoc]

Thanks for having me re-read that.

That's the best laugh I've had all week.

"Before her waited a grotesque, quivering mass of corpses, their armor piecemeal, their bodies broken, the stench unimaginable. Their plaintive, desperate gazes reminded her suddenly of children. They disgusted her. But their need empowered her."

"I did pity the forsaken." -BFA loyalist epilogue.

Ho-ly crap. I am gutted. That's the best find we've had all thread.

Keep reading, it only gets better. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

That disgusting line comes from Edge of Night?

Holy shit, I'm surprised it took her so long to come out and reveal that she didn't give a shit about the Forsaken, when they literally disgusted her.