Shouldn't the Alliance have ousted Anduin or force him to abdicate at this point?

[Ardenaso]

I'm going to need you all to stop the Horde vs. Alliance morality #34324322 again and just go back to the topic that whether Horde/Alliance favoritism - Anduin is still a Horde lapdog and has poor leadership skills

[Hubbl3]

Please let me know if I've missed anything. The Alliance won BFA by miles. Horde gained nothing, not close to breaking even either.

Yeah but the one time the Horde dropped a bomb some expansion ago though.

[Soon-TM]

Anduin is still a Horde lapdog and has poor leadership skills

I'd say it's quite the opposite. Current Horde leadership is a bunch of boring, easily interchangeable Anduin cheerleaders, who can barely lift a finger without asking for permission from Stormwind first, as their spiritual leader Honorfang showed.

And Anduin may have poor leadership skills, but that doesn't prevent the narrative from depicting him as the best thing since sliced bread.

[Rend Blackhand]

The alliance couldnt even lose gelbin while we lost 5 leaders!!! Lmao

How could I have forgotten Gelbin? Close to killing an Alliance leader, even one nobody cares about but then he got a Tony Stark rip off story and infected the playerbase with amputee fetish daiper gnomes.

[Soon-TM]

he got a Tony Stark rip off story and infected the playerbase with amputee fetish daiper gnomes.

At least that part is upon Ally players to bear lul.

[Feanoro]

You're just engaging in hyperbole now, and also avoiding the actual point of the argument

Is this your first time arguing with him?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I'm going to need you all to stop the Horde vs. Alliance morality #34324322 again and just accept that whether Horde/Alliance favoritism - Anduin is still a Horde lapdog and has poor leadership skills

"I need you guys to stop having a discussion and just accept my opinion as the correct one" is basically what you just said.

[Aucald]

Is this your first time arguing with him?

This is a particular argument I try not to get embroiled in, but as you can see I'm not very successful. Like the Horde/Alliance conflict itself there's no resolution to be had in it, and in the end the status quo is the only winner.

[Ardenaso]

"I need you guys to stop having a discussion and just accept my opinion as the correct one" is basically what you just said.

Apologies for my forced tone there. I'll edit it now.

[Beerbill Society]

While I fully agree with the last paragraph, the reason for the Alliance to "lose" so many iconic characters (Tirion, Magni, Khadgar, you name it) is... *drumroll* is that Blizzard has never cared to write equally important characters for the Horde. The closest they were to have a Horde lead character* was Thrall back in Cata - and we all know how that went

* = by "Horde lead character", I mean someone with a strong faction affinity, who doesn't go over the rainbow crazy as soon as writers run out of big names to throw as raid fodder.

I mean, i think the characters were there but they didnt use them right:

They had both Saurfangs (father and son were only used as cannon fodder);
Vol'jin has some interesting lore in "Shadows of the Horde" and it made me wish they used more Shadow Hunter related stuff;
Cairne Bloodhoof was wasted and even the Magatha Grimtotem was kinda wasted with the whole Cata chain, She could be Moira Thaurissan of the Horde;
Hamuul Runetotem had it going for him until they forgot that he existed after Cata;
Drek'tar was made into old mad cripple;
Prominent Blood Elfs like Lor'themar Theron and Lady Liadrin only recently started to have more attention;
Chen Stormstount and Rexxar wasted, Chen had to be sacrificed for panda for all and Rexxar was here and there but at the same time he wasnt;
Varimathras was part of the horde at some point and they made him escape goat for Sylvanas/Wrathgate;
And arguably the biggest losts of all are Sylvanas and Garrosh and they completely missed for the sake of making cheap villains, and with Garrosh tainted Grom Hellscream legacy as well;
Finally don't get me started in WoD were they put the last nail in Horde lore coffin, bringing back so many Orc Clans to throw it all away;

I guess if you burn all your characters on meaningless story telling and forsake all character development for years, you eventually reach this kind of problem.

This is probably the reason they had to bring Nathanos Blightcaller (making it the human self-insert) that is completely OP and have to be everywhere for the plot to develop.

[Ardenaso]

snip

meanwhile Nazgrel is still rotting in Thrallmar and Jorin Deadeye doesn't exist anymore

[Powerogue]

(snipped from another thread because it seems more relevant here)

In fact it's pretty funny how much more successful Anduin's conquest of the Horde, using soft power, was than his father's more heavy-handed approach. For one, because Anduin created the rebellion (by releasing and abetting Saurfang) himself, he owned it from the start, whereas Varian never had full control of the Darkspear Rebellion, with the result that an actually pro-Horde leader (Vol'jin) was installed.

I mean when you put it that way Anduin did a pretty damn good job.

Varian bashed down the doors. But the Horde let Anduin in.

[Cherry123]

Anduin needs Anakin treatment, then he will become interesting.

[Ardenaso]

Anduin needs Anakin treatment, then he will become interesting.

I don't think so, he and Baine can stay as the purity sues; I prefer to see someone else grab the throne from Anduin

[Nerovar]

anduin shit i hope he rots in maw

The golden boy is here to stay. Remember Legion? It was ""teased"" that he'll be around until he's old and gray.

TL;DR - the Alliance is sorely lacking in flavour, and instead of being a collection of wildly different races with only their shared connection to the Light and/or aversion towards the Horde tenuously holding them together, the faction has become just 3-5 governing characters existing in a vacuum. Anduin as a character actually suffers in quality because of this, as the character would be objectively more interesting when faced with resistance from his own people and having to adjust and strategize to survive it. Everyone doing what he wants without question (except Tyrande for all of 3 minutes) and understanding his perspective only serves to make him a less interesting character.

I mean, there's been pretty much no world building since classic (or cataclysm if we want to be generous). We've only had stupid plot but the state of the world is pretty much unexplored except for a few very short passages their writers throw into the latest novel.

[Cherry123]

The golden boy is here to stay. Remember Legion? It was ""teased"" that he'll be around until he's old and gray

He and others leaders in shadowlands, datamining said it. Forget this comic, it's not canon

[Nerovar]

He and others leaders in shadowlands, datamining said it. Forget this comic, it's not canon

What are you trying to say here? Just because they will enter the Shadowlands doesn't mean they'll stay they're.

[Niwes]

• Saved Garrosh from death
• Approved Tyrande's call to attack Silithus without any safety nets
• Freed a valueable high priority prisoner -> betrayal of public trust
• Didn't do much effort to save the people in Teldrassil -> why not call in more Hydromancers, Frost Mages, or even the Draenei?
• Attacked Lordaeron right away without safety nets (had to be saved three times by luck)
• Vowed to recover Teldrassil before the Fourth War is over -> Teldrassil is recovered without the help of Anduin or the "main" Alliance Army at all, just the soldiers from Gilneas and Night Elves
• Compared Daelin to Arthas (I know Daelin attacked unprovoked, but it's insensitive and insulting to the Kul Tirans who just recently rejoined the Alliance)
• Refused to hold even the most immediate aggressors accountable (Belmont, Eyegouge, Liadrin, whoever assaulted Brennadam)
• Anything else against the Westfall poor and hungry and homeless?

Why does Velen, Arechron, Vereesa, Mordent, Tyrande, Malfurion, Danath, Three Dwarf Rules, and Turalyon even have to bow down to a 20> year old person who has little to no leading experience? Even in the Battle of Lordaeron, Anduin didn't have any backup plan nor any safety nets and they were just lucky that Jaina arrived. At this point everyone should see that Anduin is a Horde lapdog and he might as well offer Mount Hyjal, Hinterlands, Winterspring, Feralas, and Felwood to the Horde to appease them further. The Alliance needs to have some actual development and more internal conflict to actually mature and the leaders should come to their senses to put someone of wisdom and experience instead to lead them: Tyrande, Velen, or Turalyon.

I don't care what happens to Genn if this happens, but seeing that he gave a middle finger to Anduin to help the Night Elves - it would appear that he would follow Tyrande over Anduin

Wanna know what i read here?

A lot of Bluuurp.

[Powerogue]

He and others leaders in shadowlands, datamining said it. Forget this comic, it's not canon

It's as canon as any other side-story to WoW, or even WoW itself. As in "canon until Blizzard decides it isn't, don't obsess over it." If they wanted to they could kill off Anduin tomorrow by incineration into ashes and bring him back the day after. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Merely_a_setback

[The Butt Witch]

How many of these stupid threads are there?

I swear "Orange Wrynn bad" is the new fad on this forum.

Infracted.