Sylvanas Character Assassination

[Aquinan]

the fact that those players who went with the loyalist path still root for Sylvanas even after she literally wanted them dead is beyond me

Same mindset as the numpties protesting lockdowns

Infracted.

[Aresk]

The mere use of the blight is toxic to the land. It can take decades for its effects to vanish and the soil to heal. For example, Gilneas is still a toxic wasteland after like 4 years.

The black dragonflight and Gilnean survivors were living in Gilneas at the end of the same expansion it was blighted. Unless Cataclysm took four years, it didn't take that long for the land to be habitable again.

[FlubberPuddy]

Then how is there an assassination, that means she's just always been a pretty bad apple

There isn't lol, that's the big jebait here people are seemingly still discussing.

[Varodoc]

The black dragonflight and Gilnean survivors were living in Gilneas at the end of the same expansion it was blighted. Unless Cataclysm took four years, it didn't take that long for the land to be habitable again.

Before the Storm says that Gilneas is now a desolate and cursed land. Varian sought to cleanse it after SoO but that never happened. The black dragons are cockroaches who can live anywhere, even in the heart of a volcano, so whatev.

[Aresk]

Before the Storm says that Gilneas is now a desolate and cursed land. Varian sought to cleanse it after SoO but that never happened. The black dragons are cockroaches who can live anywhere, even in the heart of a volcano, so whatev.

Humans and worgen were living there too. There's a difference between toxic wasteland and desolate. As far as cursed, Gilneas could be considered a cursed land before the Blight struck with packs of feral worgen running around the countryside, so I'm not too inclined to take the cursed part referring specifically to the blight. As far as I can tell, it take time for things to be able to grow there again, but one doesn't start to melt as soon as they enter the area like one does when Blight is still present (unless that area is Undercity for some reason).

[Martymark]

The writers who created Sylvanas as a nuanced character all retired (Metzen, Pardo, Neilson). The new Actiblizzion writers had their own ideas for her character, and it was "She's the lich king, and the main antagonist for 5 expansions!".

[Ethas]

They ruined her character and any future attempts to develop her for sure. This stupid tree because she acted out of anger? This is soo bullshit.
Still she is the coolest character wow has now. Halving the Helm of Damnation is surely an impressive feat.

[Stelio Kontos]

A character who has been a villain pretty much all along gained more power and thus committed bigger acts of villainy. How is that character assassination exactly?

[FlubberPuddy]

A character who has been a villain pretty much all along gained more power and thus committed bigger acts of villainy. How is that character assassination exactly?

Because they wanted this to happen and it did not:

[kansor]

A character who has been a villain pretty much all along gained more power and thus committed bigger acts of villainy. How is that character assassination exactly?

It's the difference between a nuanced evil character and a KILL HOPE Preachy Sue cartoon villain.

[Yarathir]

A character who has been a villain pretty much all along gained more power and thus committed bigger acts of villainy. How is that character assassination exactly?

She approved of development of plague and experimentation on the living for benevolent reasons. BfA totally assassinated her character.

Also btw Tyrande said "I WILL SAVE YOU MY BELOVED" haha funny what a dumb night elf I hope she dies.

[Varodoc]

It's the difference between a nuanced evil character and a KILL HOPE Preachy Sue cartoon villain.

What's nuanced about "Varimathras, remove the Human infestation of Hillsbrad in my name" or "LET THE GILNEANS ENJOY THEIR SMALL VICTORY, NOT EVEN THEIR BONES WILL REMAIN BY TOMORROW!"?

[kansor]

What's nuanced about "Varimathras, remove the Human infestation of Hillsbrad in my name" or "LET THE GILNEANS ENJOY THEIR SMALL VICTORY, NOT EVEN THEIR BONES WILL REMAIN BY TOMORROW!"?

It's about the whole picture they paint. Up until BFA they were doing a good job of taking her in a more militaristic direction while not all-out villain batting her. She does evil things but for pragmatic reasons, not in service of an intricate and ludicrous Bond villain scheme and not because she was momentarily triggered to outrage. And her tragic past and separation from her real life came in at specific moments to make her, if not sympathetic, a tragic figure. The BFA and Shadowlands writers simply write and portray her badly.

[Varodoc]

It's about the whole picture they paint. Up until BFA they were doing a good job of taking her in a more militaristic direction while not all-out villain batting her. She does evil things but for pragmatic reasons, not in service of an intricate and ludicrous Bond villain scheme and not because she was momentarily triggered to outrage. And her tragic past and separation from her real life came in at specific moments to make her, if not sympathetic, a tragic figure. The BFA and Shadowlands writers simply write and portray her badly.

That tends to happen when you give psychos all the military power. At least before Legion she needed to hide in the shadows, which added some degree of nuance. She was still evil as shit, but she needed to hide it. When she became warchief she could do whatever the hell she wanted, because she's the warchief. So it's really not a surprise that we ended up with the Burning of Teldrassil.

[Necromind]

Are you telling me that we should have let the Lich King be, because from his point of view we were the bad guys and he was trying to safe Azeroth? When Sargeras decided to come to our home and tried to burn it, did we step aside and let him do what he wanted because destroying the universe makes sense from his point? No sir, we did not. We kick the asses of people who are clearly evil and send them burning to their death.

The so-called "Royal Apothecaries" are nothing else. Mad scientists that develop plagues to murder the living for fun, with the reason being either hate, nihilism or something else. They have no more right to exist then the Legion or the Scourge, hell Putricide in Icecrown could just as well BE one of them, there is hardly a difference.

You really don't see the difference between playable Forsaken and freaking Lich King with Burning Legion?
Arthas story was finished, it was finished way before WotLK, he and the scourge were never a real playable faction in wow. They were allways world level threats, big scary monsters on horizon that wanted everyone dead, incompatible with Azeroth existance and alien to players.
Now, forsaken, on a surface level are just like Scourge. The obvious difference is that they are PLAYABLE FACTION with their identity built upon being this uneasy allies even for the Horde. From the very start they were like that, people get attached to faction idelas. Yes, they are damned nazi zombies, but they get shit done, it's nessesary evil that ultimately fights for good of the Horde.
Lawful evil is a fun aligment to explore in the Horde specificaly and i just don't see why Forsaken should change it.

You could just as easily tone down the Forsaken assault on Alliance and bligth use if writers so desired, they could have given them a different enemy to fight in the region. They could have made Alliance to retaliate, forcing a stalemate. They can literally write whatever, possibilities are endless.

Also, apothecaries are not exclusively evil. You woudn't want to get into their hands for sure, but there's more to them than developing the plague variations TO KILL ALL LIVING. They are effectively scientific branch of Forsaken that just happens to specialize on chemical developement.

And @Raisei, don't take it personally, i was replying to different post, remembered yours and misspelled your name in the process. My bad.

So it's really not a surprise that we ended up with the Burning of Teldrassil.

No, it's not a surprise.
Surprise is that Burning of Teldrassil was poorly thought out writing, and off all the possibilities and justifications they have chosen the lamest one.
Remember Azerite? Resource that was compared to nuclear weapons and how factions will fight for it and it will change the war? Not even that was the motivation for Teldrassil Assault. (TBH, nor it was a big point in BfA faction war)
We went from introducing BfA war motivations straight into "Sylvanas is working for someone and just wants to kill a bunch of people", as we find out, the Jailer from Shadowlands.
WOD retconned Burning Legion and Timelines to broadly link it to Legion expantion, but imagine they straight out came out with this crap in pre-patch. "Demons that are now the same across all timelines, Guldan is working with them to invade Azeroth"

People just roll with this. Of course Sylvanas would do it! She was allways evil!
But it's not just about just evilness. It's about how lazily everything was blamed on already evil Sylvanas leading evil Forsaken. They needed a way to start a war, they used "Evil Sylvanas, that's already there" as a cop out and as convinient way to link next expantion.
This forced whole Horde to participate in a really weird war with vague goal to "Claim Kalimdor for the Horde" and Forsaken players rolling their eyes and getting the feeling where this is going ever sice BtS

Even Garrosh didn't get shafted this hard.

[omeomorfismo]

As one of the undead Forsaken, you have been reanimated by dark magic. Though shunned by the living, you tirelessly strive to protect them.

oh god, they did it.
thats the bullshittier retcon they could even conceive.

[Super Dickmann]

oh god, they did it.
thats the bullshittier retcon they could even conceive.

We've reached full circle. The Ebon Blade used to be bargain bin Forsaken and now the Forsaken are bargain bin Death Knights with a less cool leader.

[Combatbutler]

oh god, they did it.
thats the bullshittier retcon they could even conceive.

Dear god this made me actually laugh, the most morally messed up playable race ,with almost their entire screentime dedicated to show them as vile monsters......... defenders of the living

I wonder if they actually have the balls to keep this or if they will remove it, like the human potential XD

[Varodoc]

You really don't see the difference between playable Forsaken and freaking Lich King with Burning Legion?
Arthas story was finished, it was finished way before WotLK, he and the scourge were never a real playable faction in wow. They were allways world level threats, big scary monsters on horizon that wanted everyone dead, incompatible with Azeroth existance and alien to players.
Now, forsaken, on a surface level are just like Scourge. The obvious difference is that they are PLAYABLE FACTION with their identity built upon being this uneasy allies even for the Horde. From the very start they were like that, people get attached to faction idelas. Yes, they are damned nazi zombies, but they get shit done, it's nessesary evil that ultimately fights for good of the Horde.
Lawful evil is a fun aligment to explore in the Horde specificaly and i just don't see why Forsaken should change it.

You could just as easily tone down the Forsaken assault on Alliance and bligth use if writers so desired, they could have given them a different enemy to fight in the region. They could have made Alliance to retaliate, forcing a stalemate. They can literally write whatever, possibilities are endless.

Also, apothecaries are not exclusively evil. You woudn't want to get into their hands for sure, but there's more to them than developing the plague variations TO KILL ALL LIVING. They are effectively scientific branch of Forsaken that just happens to specialize on chemical developement.

And @Raisei, don't take it personally, i was replying to different post, remembered yours and misspelled your name in the process. My bad.


No, it's not a surprise.
Surprise is that Burning of Teldrassil was poorly thought out writing, and off all the possibilities and justifications they have chosen the lamest one.
Remember Azerite? Resource that was compared to nuclear weapons and how factions will fight for it and it will change the war? Not even that was the motivation for Teldrassil Assault. (TBH, nor it was a big point in BfA faction war)
We went from introducing BfA war motivations straight into "Sylvanas is working for someone and just wants to kill a bunch of people", as we find out, the Jailer from Shadowlands.
WOD retconned Burning Legion and Timelines to broadly link it to Legion expantion, but imagine they straight out came out with this crap in pre-patch. "Demons that are now the same across all timelines, Guldan is working with them to invade Azeroth"

People just roll with this. Of course Sylvanas would do it! She was allways evil!
But it's not just about just evilness. It's about how lazily everything was blamed on already evil Sylvanas leading evil Forsaken. They needed a way to start a war, they used "Evil Sylvanas, that's already there" as a cop out and as convinient way to link next expantion.
This forced whole Horde to participate in a really weird war with vague goal to "Claim Kalimdor for the Horde" and Forsaken players rolling their eyes and getting the feeling where this is going ever sice BtS

Even Garrosh didn't get shafted this hard.

Lol, they basically said Garrosh would be a raid boss after 5.2. You might have not liked Sylvanas arc in BfA, but you would have hated it much more had Blizzard said from the beginning that Sylvanas was a villain you would have to kill.

[omeomorfismo]

We've reached full circle. The Ebon Blade used to be bargain bin Forsaken and now the Forsaken are bargain bin Death Knights with a less cool leader.

and the funny thing is that the last forsakens we saw are the ones plaguing darkshores and the group in nazmir discussing how they didnt go too far murdering the godless (or whatever are called in english the snakemen enemies) with some random artifact