Datamined race intros shows Blizz set on whitewashing Horde.

[Minikin]

That horde only ever existed in Warcraft 3. Majority of current horde players interested in lore are there just for edgy elf content.

that is EXTREMELY offensive to my
- silver haired blood elf hunter named XlegolazX
- silver haired blood elf paladin named XSephirothzX

[Orby]

Entire societies don't change this quickly. Especially since in-lore even less time has passed.

Well I never said they did it well :P

[Feanoro]

If Lordaeron is 10000% horde territory and forsaken are the true people of Lordaeron, why the hell would the Alliance have to feel responsible for anything Lordaeron did? Let the blood elves and forsaken solve it between themselves.

Because the core identity of the Horde is shifting the blame for absolutely everything onto anyone and anything not in the Horde. You can see how well that ideal has been taken up by its fans.

[Varodoc]

That horde only ever existed in Warcraft 3. Majority of current horde players interested in lore are there just for edgy elf content.

Hehe, right.

Tries to hide void elf main.

[bowlink]

and this is getting locked now

[Nagawithlegs]

People keep memeing about the shovel quests, but haven't realized that new players (which these descriptions are meant for) literally CANNOT do that quest on their first character. And likely will not pick Cataclysm to level in on subsequent playthroughs.

This points to an old world questing overhaul more than anything.

[Kalarm]

Wow, it's almost like there's consequences to making one of the two playable factions the evil faction for an expansion.

It's almost like people kept saying there would be a jarring and awkward transition from that point onwards, as the playerbase is expected to just move past the fact that the other playable races committed severely terrible acts and now simply walks away. Because in order for the story to go on, that would NEED to happen.

If you're still surprised, you shouldn't be.

- - - Updated - - -



Unfortunate. The Horde isn't an evil faction, never was, never planned to be, never will be.

The evil factions belong to the non-playable characters.

Sad but true. Now, whatever they do with the NE story, it's always going to be a bitter ending. The NE's got fucked and now were supposed to all hold hands.

If Tyrande and Malfurion turn a new leaf, it's gonna suck because they really shouldn't. They are right to be angry as fuck. Their fucking main world was destroyed with a ton of people on it.

If Tyrande and Malfurion refuse to turn a new leaf and ultimately become raid bosses... It's also gonna suck because they are totally right to not want to.

So lore wise, what is left? (I'm all hears BTW). NE should lore wise still kill horde on sight. If the alliance cannot respect that, they should just leave the alliance to keep killing horde on sight. They might still have some sort of friendship with the alliance in the form of... trading and not killing them on sight.

Like... The moment we saw the burning we knew it was gonna suck. Whatever would happen, it would never change that one terrible act. I've said it when we saw it and I stand by it. Whatever the alliance does, whatever the NE does to the horde from that moment. It's all justified by what the horde did. Yes, it was Sylvanas's horde... But it was still the horde. Our character was part of it even. Even if the NE's become genocidal maniacs, it's all justified by what happened to them.

The horde has no right to be respected right now. The horde as no right to even live on. The horde should of been purely and totally eradicated. They should be living under the boot of the alliance under the menace of being killed. Plot armor happened tho, so apparently the horde was able to withstand internal discourse AND a war.

Another way I could of seen this more quickly resolved would of been if the other horde "leaders" would of seen the burning and immediately and swiftly stroke Sylvanas down. Then the horde would of had to bow down to the alliance.

But now... All is good now because Saurfang said "Muh honor" and Sylvanas hurty the feelings by saying "You are all nothing". WTF was that... "I followed the mad queen when she burned teldrassil because I thought she was my waifu! But now I realize senpai didn't notice me so me change mind".

BFA is so frustrating. They say they think of 2-3 expansions in the future. They are probably already planting the seeds for the next expansion or the one after (The light = evil) but BFA is still incredibly bad and the story feels like it's just forced. BFA story could of been good. That's the worst of it. If alliance would of done something to warrant Sylvanas's actions, it would of been much more different. Or if the burning would of been caused by some other agent. Sylvanas would of still gone to war for Azerite and all but that part was more understandable. Which would all not fit into that idea that she is working with the jailer and all... And yet... We might end SL with a reveal that Sylvanas was playing 4D chess and was doing the right thing. I wouldn't be surprised at all... And it would still be a bad ending. That's also part of the problem. Either Sylvanas was just evil, meaning we really had no reason to think there was good in her during BFA and should of been killed ASAP. Or she turns out to be good and gets a "Draenor is free" moment which equally sucks.

I'm hyped for SL TBH. I think there is a lot of interesting stuff... But I have serious doubt that the NE story, Sylvanas's story and the Horde's consequences story are going to lead anywhere interesting.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

For doing nothing other than trespassing on land that they had no way of knowing was occupied. Yup, totally deserve death for that.

From a troll perspective I’d say so ya.

[bowlink]

People keep memeing about the shovel quests, but haven't realized that new players (which these descriptions are meant for) literally CANNOT do that quest on their first character. And likely will not pick Cataclysm to level in.

This points to an old world questing overhaul more than anything.

yes a new player can't do the cataclysm zone. however as of right now exiles reach happens before BFA proper. which means if the person does the war campaign they might not as the relevant quests happen 120 right. during those you still raise 3 people into undeath Amelia Stone Zellig and Derek Proudmore. only one of those is given the choice Zellig. Amelia is borderline Galighted and Derek may or may not have been turned into a sleeper agent. and when Zellig realised he made the wrong choice and tried to stop the active torture and brainwashing of a fellow forsaken IE Derek. he was killed to be made an example off.

The Majority of the forsaken didn't have change of heart untill after Sylvanas Left them like the soggy moldy sandwich they are. oh yea then their that Night elf BBQ that is teldrassil. that should be mentioned in the intro atleast.

[korijenkins]

Kind of like how Blizzard glosses over all the terrible things the Alliance has done so....meh.

All 3 things.

Most of this talk stems from "Garithos was mean" and "Blood elves died in Dalaran"

That's it. That's the "bad" things Alliance did. JUST Theramore alone outweighs everything the Alliance have done that could be considered bad.

[Schattenlied]

From a troll perspective I’d say so ya.

Then I'd say the trolls got what they deserved for being hyper-violent a-holes.

[Life-Binder]

how much do i need to pay to join Sylvanas/death/Legion etc. faction ?

anything where i'm "bad" and can slaughter my enemies and bathe in their blood

[nexellent]

pretty obvious blizzard wants to forget bfa ever happened as much as the players do

[Friendlyimmolation]

Then I'd say the trolls got what they deserved for being hyper-violent a-holes.

The same way the night elves deserved to be stomped because they attacked the orcs when the orcs showed up in Ashenvale.

[Soon-TM]

Honestly the High Elves should just abandon the humans and join the Horde. Going home has to be better than living in Dalaran and Stormwind surrounded by humans

You can't stop once you are addicted to Human Potential™. That !@#$ is as bad as fel, except that you don't grow horns or hooves. But you lose any personality and original traits, to become yet another Anduin groupie - because if you don't, you are immediately mauled with the villain bat. It reminds me of that episode from the Simpsons when Flanders rules the world.

[Minikin]

There's a lot wrong with this statement:

1.) It's not: Forsaken Players may-or-may-not see the appeal of making new forsaken.

2.) Is transforming people into forsaken really that much worse than just killing them? Which the other Horde races have no problem with. This is a medieval fantasy game. You, as a player are constantly killing people, but you demand a much larger level of ethical scrutiny to everything the Forsaken do.

3.) Whitewashing things the Alliance do has always been something the narrative has done: For example, everyone comes together for deposing Sylvanas, and then there is peace, but absolutely no conversation about the Alliance assassinating Talanji's father for no ethical reason or strategic purpose.

Lol what? Please when they finally get the balls to let alliance actually kill civilians en mass then perhaps there might be some comparison. At this point even if the alliance actually goes and slaughters everyone at the crossroads it still will look whitewashed compared to teldrassil, darkshore, astrannar and brennadam.

No ethical or strategic purpose?

He was sheltering the Horde military in his capital city and allowing them to use it as a staging point to conduct military operations against the Alliance...

He's got nobody to blame for that but himself.

Theramore: Garrosh did nothing wrong!!!!! Jaina was assisting alliance forces! It was right to be bombed!

Dazaralor: OMG why would they kill Ratakhan!!!! He did nothing wrong!

[bowlink]

All 3 things.

Most of this talk stems from "Garithos was mean" and "Blood elves died in Dalaran"

That's it. That's the "bad" things Alliance did. JUST Theramore alone outweighs everything the Alliance have done that could be considered bad.

ill list them because i know them by heart by now.

Interment camps happend post wacraft 2 alternative was slaughter all the orcs. would have been a better choice in my opinion. if this applies blame horde for orcish horde misdeeds.

Garathos being mean to the blood elves. 1 bloodeves weren't part of the horde yet so that point is moot. 2 Lordaeron and by extention Garathos's Family was left high and dry during the second war when the High elves refused to help with the horde untill they were literal at Quel'thalas's doorstep. also predate WoW same rule aplies as the interment camps.

Camp Taurajo: Basicly The Horde's Alamo basicly a bunch of mud huts outside mulgore. the alliance commander left an opening for the civilians to leave not realising it lead right into a quilboar camp. the civilians were promply killed. the alliance commander was branded a butcher by the horde eventho he was fed false information that the tauren were plotting an attack. the looters are mercs overstepping there bounds. this one is justified. so first official one.

The Dalaran "Massacre" <---- notice the air quots there. Pretty mutch Jaina and Silver Covanant Acting alone. Alliance did not condone it and seeing as dalaran a Sovereign nation not mutch Varian could do aside from yelling a jaina. the jist Garrosh sunreaver sympathizer smuggled the Devine bell through a neatral city under Jaina nose. after some other Garrosh sunreaver sympathizer made a magical WMD using the Focusing Iris to Nuke Jaina's new home of Theramore.
so this one is heavely disputed.

The Destruction of Brill. Sylvanas and horde pissed of the alliance so not justified.

The attack of Dazar'alor: alliance was just trying to occupy the city Talanji's Throne warmer wasn't having it and decided to solo a raiding party his mistake.
soldiers were orders to leave civilians alone. because what are we the horde. ill give this the second offical justified.

[ChairmanKaga]

All 3 things.

Most of this talk stems from "Garithos was mean" and "Blood elves died in Dalaran"

That's it. That's the "bad" things Alliance did. JUST Theramore alone outweighs everything the Alliance have done that could be considered bad.

Bwahahahahah

[Nagawithlegs]

The fact that Alliance/Horde players get so mad when people call them evil is why they are whitewashing all the races.

[gcsmith]

The same way the night elves deserved to be stomped because they attacked the orcs when the orcs showed up in Ashenvale.

"Showed up..." Yeah, that's all they did, after a genocidal invasion, murdering their guards in prison and then chopping down the sacred forest of the NE...