I can't be the only one predicting a permanent level 60 cap

[DechCJC]

This is the only thing that makes sense, the leveling squish becomes irrelevant otherwise. I can see people complaining that they lose power every expansion, but I think it's the lesser evil for overall longevity.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The only problem I see with it is that classes get some spells (or spell ranks) from 50 to 60. So would you just lose those every expansion and have to regain them?

True, so far that tid-bit is actually the only thing that speaks against it.

[Onikaroshi]

You would still have to level every xpac. Just, EVERY xpac you'd be levelling from 50 to 60. End of xpac ---> Dropped to 50 and everything rescaled.

That's not fun, set it back once, and never touch it again.

[Selah]

I wouldn't be surprised if 60 was the cap. I mean, I don't think it's a secret that the Legion artifacts, HoA, and now Anima have been testing the waters for a more permanent system. I can't help but also wonder if this was why we didn't see a new class this expansion. Perhaps they're going to take the GW2 route and open up weapon trees to expand class fantasy?

[Chickat]

Thats exactly what Ion said. When WoW was created the developer didn't think about the game 10 years ahead, but now they do. So they setup systems that allows them to have a scalable future for WoW.

We will be scaled back every new expansion now to level 50. They add the last expansion to the 1-50 leveling pool and the new expansion to 50-60. Infinite system - build to last forever.

Id rather they squish every 3 expansions. Sl 60, 10.0 70, 11.0 80, 12.0 60 etc.

Sometime in the next few expansions it would make sense to revamp the world and let players level there from now on.

[khazmodan]

This is the only thing that makes sense, the leveling squish becomes irrelevant otherwise. I can see people complaining that they lose power every expansion, but I think it's the lesser evil for overall longevity.

I think what they are doing with professions being leveled up for each expansion pack might be something that is applied to our character level so that people get something out of going back and finishing content in older expansions. This is of course a BIG can of worms that creates a ton of questions like; what content will progress those expansion specific levels and what benefit can be created that makes it worth working on?.

[LorDC]

Permanent level cap of 60 is a very possible future IMO. But kicking players back to level 50 each expansion feels really clunky.
I think they'll just give up and implement a second leveling system akin to Diablo or rather Overwatch. We will have an infinite paragon levels on top of our usual ones with the first few levels gained each week giving us some expansion specific power and after that you'll gain cosmetic rewards and/or emissary-style chests.

[Amerissis]

I wouldn't like that. I don't mind a squish every now and then, but to be put back to 50 every expansion? That makes leveling feel so worthless that I wouldn't continue doing it. That's just so not the same as getting a squish after 15+ years.

[Segus1992]

That's not fun, set it back once, and never touch it again.

Ah yeah, this level squish fixes the problem forever. Ten expansions from now when we're 150? All cool dude, the SL level squish fixed it.

They'll either have to do the level squish in the same manner as ilvl/stat squish - every few years - or make it permanent in some manner. Being reset to 50 every expansion isn't going to feel great, but it isn't really that much different to leveling 110-120 and then 120-130: "I was the mightiest hero of the planet at 120, now I have to kill boars to get more powerful again?". It's just that we're used to the latter.

[Venziir]

20th level has been the cap for D&D for decades. Nobody seems to mind.

Epic levels in D&D have been a thing since 1983 though it wasn't named "epic levels" until 2001 with 3E.

[VinceVega]

i Think that is the best solution. Infinite Levels are annoying.
This way they can keep the story straight for newcomers and legacy good for everyone else while also keep the leveling in check that it does not get so out of hand as it is right now.

The moment BFA gets into Legacy mode they can squish down the iLvls for that expansion. E.g. difference between normal and heroic raid gear only 1 iLvl as it is not needed anymore. So the iLvl Inflation is worked against.

The whole "i don't feel more powerfull" is only for the first two weeks anyway as you get used to the new numbers quite fast.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't like that. I don't mind a squish every now and then, but to be put back to 50 every expansion? That makes leveling feel so worthless that I wouldn't continue doing it. That's just so not the same as getting a squish after 15+ years.

Hasn't leveling always been worthless... since the fiorst expansion nearly the whole game was in endgame. Levelign was just a tool to get there and pace the story exposure. Also to make sure you get all of the story. Basically you get tunneled into a way of progression they need you to take to understand what is happening. Otherwise poeple would skip half of it and complain that they don't understand what is going on.

Also to work as a reset so everyone is at the same level and players can catch up.

[MrLachyG]

snip.

honestly it kinda makes sense moving forward for this to happen. I definitely agree that this will happen in 10.0, I am glad of it because it makes sense and won't be hard for them to do - 9.0 might be slightly wonky but once they have ironed all the kinks out 10.0 will be smoother.

[dragnipur]

NTY, leveling is part of an RPG

Expansion doesn't mean level cap increase.Horizontal progression is not something new.GW franchise is a perfect example.

[RangerDaz]

i would like every xpac to restart at 50 and the previous expansion going to the 10-50 leveling bracket as all the others.

[RobertMugabe]

I don't think I've seen this discussion hashed out since the leveling revamp was announced, and that surprises me.

So... I don't know where I got the impression, but it's in my head from somewhere that Ion Hazzikostas was put where he is partially to future proof WoW for the perpetuity that, really, they never expected for this game, once and for all. Whether that's his doing or not is debatable, but it's absolutely a thing that's happening.

As much as he claims not to want things to get too formulaic, you can see these efforts here and there: Flight/Pathfinder is an expected formula now, the patch cycle is relatively standardized with some wiggle room, legacy loot is a hard coded and necessary promise for those playing the transmog long game, and our expectations between main patches and "point five" patches have formed a straight line that has us anticipating timewalking right on time each expansion.

So let's look at the leveling overhaul in this vein.

You have your starting area bracket, your "legacy content" bracket, your "immediately prior expansion" designation for a smooth transition for new players being told a flowing story, and then your 10 levels for the current expansion. Pathfinder becomes something you do at the X.2 mark if you wanna fly in current content while it's current, and that achievement becomes of lesser import by the time that content goes legacy if not in the immediately following expansion. That's all very neat, tidy and as soon as we live through it once, going from 60 to 50 to climb it again, it's precedent.

...And it potentially happens again, every two years, as everything slots into its new place on the climb from 1-60. On schedule. Forever. Or as long as the game keeps going anyway.

It's so elegant it seems a sure bet at this point. How the hell does a "level 60-70" 10.0 even fit into this? It doesn't. We'll be 50 again for 10.0, Shadowlands will be the non-optional 10-50 game for new people, and BFA goes fully into the legacy pool of leveling options for veterans.

That's gotta be how this is going, right?

Right?

To be clear, I'm not complaining, but I haven't seen this accepted communally, this... nigh inevitability I'm seeing unfolding here.

That's what I'd expect to happen as well. I'm slightly confused with your wording tho ^^

[Aenigma84]

I don't think I've seen this discussion hashed out since the leveling revamp was announced, and that surprises me.

So... I don't know where I got the impression, but it's in my head from somewhere that Ion Hazzikostas was put where he is partially to future proof WoW for the perpetuity that, really, they never expected for this game, once and for all. Whether that's his doing or not is debatable, but it's absolutely a thing that's happening.

As much as he claims not to want things to get too formulaic, you can see these efforts here and there: Flight/Pathfinder is an expected formula now, the patch cycle is relatively standardized with some wiggle room, legacy loot is a hard coded and necessary promise for those playing the transmog long game, and our expectations between main patches and "point five" patches have formed a straight line that has us anticipating timewalking right on time each expansion.

So let's look at the leveling overhaul in this vein.

You have your starting area bracket, your "legacy content" bracket, your "immediately prior expansion" designation for a smooth transition for new players being told a flowing story, and then your 10 levels for the current expansion. Pathfinder becomes something you do at the X.2 mark if you wanna fly in current content while it's current, and that achievement becomes of lesser import by the time that content goes legacy if not in the immediately following expansion. That's all very neat, tidy and as soon as we live through it once, going from 60 to 50 to climb it again, it's precedent.

...And it potentially happens again, every two years, as everything slots into its new place on the climb from 1-60. On schedule. Forever. Or as long as the game keeps going anyway.

It's so elegant it seems a sure bet at this point. How the hell does a "level 60-70" 10.0 even fit into this? It doesn't. We'll be 50 again for 10.0, Shadowlands will be the non-optional 10-50 game for new people, and BFA goes fully into the legacy pool of leveling options for veterans.

That's gotta be how this is going, right?

Right?

To be clear, I'm not complaining, but I haven't seen this accepted communally, this... nigh inevitability I'm seeing unfolding here.

i reckon they are making these changes with a view todards the future for a inevitable upgrade in wow engine or essentially wow2 hopefully without restart in a few years
eventually they wil have to do it even if the game is stil fine now

[Lubefist]

Nobody minds it that much in D&D because most campaigns don't even reach that level. Aside from that, D&D has had rules for Epic Levels (taking the cap to level 40) for decades. Baldurs Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal allowed some classes to reach level 40 and that ended with asking the player whether they wanted to go back to a mortal life or literally ascend and become a god.

It's not really a good comparison to make to a game where 95% of its content is packed at the maximum level.

I just got the shivers man. I've played BG so much back in the day, so many playthroughs. Also soloed it many times.

Need to re-visit definately, one of the best game series ever made.

[Great Destiny Man]

If they can find an alternate solution to squishes they'll probably take it. They haven't really been shy in saying squishes are an inelegant solution to the problem. Either way we're at a point where there's no really point pandering to the "level numbers have meaning" crowd at all as they've already been screeching all over the place about going from 120 -> 60.

[Onikaroshi]

Ah yeah, this level squish fixes the problem forever. Ten expansions from now when we're 150? All cool dude, the SL level squish fixed it.

They'll either have to do the level squish in the same manner as ilvl/stat squish - every few years - or make it permanent in some manner. Being reset to 50 every expansion isn't going to feel great, but it isn't really that much different to leveling 110-120 and then 120-130: "I was the mightiest hero of the planet at 120, now I have to kill boars to get more powerful again?". It's just that we're used to the latter.

Rofl, like WoW will last 10 more expansions. They should stop doing squishes at this point honestly and let us have our constant power increase again.

[Mrbleedinggums]

I'm fine with that. Make it so that it's 1-60 with 1-50 being any previous expansion and the new zones being scaled from level 50-60. Also make a permanent AP style system for each expansion so that there is an alternate progression path that is exclusive for that expansion. That way level 60s can still do the current expansion and "level" up, gaining access to new abilities and modifiers. Level 50 can still get the alternate progression experience as well as their regular experience.

You can even make it so that mobs have an aura that makes it so they take reduced damage and deal more damage (or make it so that aura effect in on the players instead) at the start of the expansion to present that "you're in a new zone and you have to become stronger" feeling. As you rank up levels in the alternate progression path, you slowly start reducing the effect that this aura has. If they did this, they should put a dampen effect to prevent people from burning out on grinding levels up so quickly. Maybe have their alternate progression system at a 10-20 level cap as well? So you'd be level 60 (and up to AP level 10) until the first raid came out.