9.0 General Discussion

[Hugnomo]

Did Ion ever say 'no plans for Vulpera?' or did anyone? I mean, Vulpera and Mechagnomes were blatantly obvious as allied races and there were mountains of evidence indicating their inevitable addition, even as far back as the beta for BFA when Vulpera were brought in accidentally flagged as Horde a little early. Only people I found who disagreed seemed to base that belief more in the fact that they didn't want those races rather than a consideration of the evidence, which became increasingly overwhelming as time went on.

But, once again, the Covenant races almost certainly won't be allied races. The fact he went out of his way to offer a lore rationale as to why they wouldn't happen is the big tell. They are 'of the Shadowlands' and simply won't work on Azeorth or other parts of the material world.
That and I figure they want you to look back on your Covenant post Shadowlands and still feel a meaningful connection with the Covenant you ended up with, and that might be spoiled by the Covenant races being able to declare for the Alliance or Horde.

Ion did make a statement at that time. When everyone was saying that they would definitely happen because of the models, animations, customization, etc that we were seeing being added to them, Ion deliberately came out with a statement about how, and I'm paraphrasing, "just because you're seeing models with more customization doesn't mean they'll be playable races! We're actively doing that with npc races to give them more variety". Which was definitely Ion trying to cover up and distract from them being a thing to keep some element of surprise. And again, it was not the first time. When we saw the lightforged draenei in Argus before their introduction as playable it was the same story.
Ion saying covenant races are "not planned" or being ambiguous about it, should not really sway anyone one way or the other. He will actively mislead you about future surprises if there's added benefit to it. And I don't blame him at all, I'd probably do the same. If he just came out and said they'd be added, it would ruin the surprise, plus people would be mad for as long as they were not made available, and even worse if they got delayed (like kultirans and zandalari were).

[Obelisk Kai]

Ion did make a statement at that time. When everyone was saying that they would definitely happen because of the models, animations, customization, etc that we were seeing being added to them, Ion deliberately came out with a statement about how, and I'm paraphrasing, "just because you're seeing models with more customization doesn't mean they'll be playable races! We're actively doing that with npc races to give them more variety". Which was definitely Ion trying to cover up and distract from them being a thing to keep some element of surprise. And again, it was not the first time. When we saw the lightforged draenei in Argus before their introduction as playable it was the same story.
Ion saying covenant races are "not planned" or being ambiguous about it, should not really sway anyone one way or the other. He will actively mislead you about future surprises if there's added benefit to it. And I don't blame him at all, I'd probably do the same. If he just came out and said they'd be added, it would ruin the surprise, plus people would be mad for as long as they were not made available, and even worse if they got delayed (like kultirans and zandalari were).

I remember that statement. Hmmm, in fact the wording itself struck me as odd due to how generic it was. He was saying 'not everything you see is going to be an allied race' yet that go to phrase of his when they've no intention of doing it, 'no plans' was absent was it not? Because clearly there were plans, and his 'commentary' wasn't specific, it was highly generic regarding seeing an allied race in everything (something that has become pertinent as time has gone by).

But in regards to the Vulpera, he didn't specifically say no, nor did he add any kind of qualifier to them seemingly ruling them out as he did with the Shadowlands Covenants (that they are beings of the Shadowlands). And he did use the 'no plans' line in regards to Allied races during Shadowlands whilst specifically noting the Shadowlands Covenant races wouldn't make sense due to their lore (which if he was trying to misdirect people, he wouldn't have done, as that just creates a rod for you own back in future).
So I don't think he is misleading here. He deployed the terminology he uses when he is strongly indicating something won't happen.

No, I don't think the Covenant races will be joining us as Allied races. I think the lore is pretty solidly against it now. I think their desire not to overburden the Alliance and Horde with yet more races so soon is playing a part in that decision as well. And I think it might mar the idea of what a Covenant is if, retroactively, the Covenant you were a part of declares for the Alliance and you are a Horde member. Now I could be wrong on that and I admit that but I would argue, looking at the proposal, the omens are far from promising.

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Ray tracing in and off itself isn't new, just using it for real time rendering of game graphics is.

In fact, first mentions of it are credited to Albrecht Dürer... that is to say, the Renessaince painter.

Absolutely not my area of expertise. I'll probably see it as yet another feature that might make the game look nicer but will it be worth the performance cost? Guess I will see.

[EbaumsTipster]

You keep saying that Ion admits that Shadowlands races are weird and that's why they won't be playable, because of their lore, but then you forget what he says immediately after.

but maybe there's a world where it makes sense for some of them to join the Alliance or the Horde someday, we'll see, but definitely not the start of Shadowlands.

Not only does he confirm that there's a possibility that future lore could accommodate them later down the road, he reinforces that idea by saying the lore isn't that way at the START of Shadowlands. There's no reason he would've mentioned this last part if there wasn't some idea for the lore about the races changing later down the line.

Ion isn't being misleading, people are just ignoring half of what he says. The races don't make sense to be playable NOW.

[vertigo12]

As someone who currently works in the space industry, and formerly worked at a refinery, it's Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Southerners. Californians. New Englanders. you're all the same.

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Vulpera, Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, Nightborne all say hello.

Well most the people nowadays are intellectuals and opinionated so they'll definitely will last out they ain't no stupid person.

[shoc]

When you put WoW with Ray Tracing next to WoW Classic, it is pretty ridiculous how much Blizzard has done with an 18 year old engine.

[FlubberPuddy]

Are y'all hyped for today's news or what?

[Syegfryed]

Not completely up to date with this myself but it seems to be a new kind of technology only supported by certain newer graphics cards that is used for realistic lighting effects. Can leave it off if you don't have a graphics card that supports it or if it noticeably slows performance.

sad, i was hoping for some optimization in the game

Now that you mention it, a lot of realms are still pretty dead despite Ion's promise that they would look into doing further connections at Blizzcon. Seems everyone is gravitating towards the big servers now. My own guild did it just two months ago, left a dying realm we'd been on for over eleven and a half years and moved to one of the biggest servers in the EU. Actually completely rejuvenated the guild with an influx of new members which spurred mythic progression to 8/12 in just a few weeks (with many bosses defeated pre-nerf). They do need to do something about that though, preferably before Shadowlands launches.

most of the south america realms are dead dead yep, wish they could unite all brazil servers by example, numbers are always falling
And the CPU issues you are having is common when there are lots of people in an area, though I haven't encountered in a mythic raid myself. Just chalk it up as another failure of the Corruption system.

Did Ion ever say 'no plans for Vulpera?' or did anyone? I mean, Vulpera and Mechagnomes were blatantly obvious as allied races and there were mountains of evidence indicating their inevitable addition, even as far back as the beta for BFA when Vulpera were brought in accidentally flagged as Horde a little early. Only people I found who disagreed seemed to base that belief more in the fact that they didn't want those races rather than a consideration of the evidence, which became increasingly overwhelming as time went on.

But, once again, the Covenant races almost certainly won't be allied races. The fact he went out of his way to offer a lore rationale as to why they wouldn't happen is the big tell. They are 'of the Shadowlands' and simply won't work on Azeorth or other parts of the material world.
That and I figure they want you to look back on your Covenant post Shadowlands and still feel a meaningful connection with the Covenant you ended up with, and that might be spoiled by the Covenant races being able to declare for the Alliance or Horde.

pretty sure there was word of someone dodging things, saying the vulpera under the allied races things were just something because was more easy to edit then

[FlubberPuddy]

@shoc

The ray-tracing looks amazing. The only sad thing is as much as it makes the game look more lively the world/inhabitants are just for show :/ kinda sucks the immersion out.

I'm not sure why when I play something like the witcher or the newer assassin's creed games, those worlds 'feel alive' compared to WoW's. Maybe there's just more flavorful stuff going on.

They started a bit of this in Boralus/Zuldazar with some out of the way npc cafes/hangouts. But I think they should do more. Maybe it's the random conversations that can be overheard by NPCs in the other games or something. IDK!

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sad, i was hoping for some optimization in the game

It'll be optimized once corruption leaves the game that's Blizzard optimization. They still I think haven't addressed that 8.3 borked all Macs to where you cannot do dungeons on any Mac computer (feels bad for a friend of mine).

[LemonDemonGirl]

When you put WoW with Ray Tracing next to WoW Classic, it is pretty ridiculous how much Blizzard has done with an 18 year old engine.

I mean, WoW was in development the year I was born. It's engine is massively outdated lol

Damn, that would make Nazmir and the Necropolis look gorgeous

[FlubberPuddy]

So I don't think he is misleading here. He deployed the terminology he uses when he is strongly indicating something won't happen.

The dude flat-out lied when speaking on Zandalari getting dino forms saying that wasn't going to happen because "bear form and cat form" are about being those iconic animals or w/e. (paraphrasing)

Also believe he straight-faced lied on Lightforged Draenei as well when it was brought up at a Blizzcon interview but that's too far back for me to care enough to check. Remember the questioner asking him if those customizations would go to players and he said some bs like 'we add those things to npcs to give them a bit more of a differentiation' or something like that.

[EbaumsTipster]

The dude flat-out lied when speaking on Zandalari getting dino forms saying that wasn't going to happen because "bear form and cat form" are about being those iconic animals or w/e. (paraphrasing)

Also believe he straight-faced lied on Lightforged Draenei as well when it was brought up at a Blizzcon interview but that's too far back for me to care enough to check. Remember the questioner asking him if those customizations would go to players and he said some bs like 'we add those things to npcs to give them a bit more of a differentiation' or something like that.

The reason they don't confirm anything about races is because of what you said with the Zandalari druid forms: they changed their mind and it goes against their prior word.

They don't want to lock down on ANYTHING regarding races after the shitfit the Zandalari delay and Alliance race choices caused during BFA. They are going to misdirect and manipulate the audience as much as they want to avoid controversy and going back against promises, that's why they didn't confirm LFDs or Vulpera as well. It's all about making sure you confirm nothing until the time is right and you're sure you can deliver.

Also yeah lol the "customization for NPC" argument is super transparent bullshit, there isn't a single non-subrace NPC race with multiple hairstyles/horns/faces whatever besides arguably Vrykul, and I think most of them have or or two hairstyles.

The fact that Ion has been this transparent about the Shadowlands races is a good sign that they have a chance, considering they never once spoke up about Sethrak demands on Alliance (because they didn't want to give hope).

[Plehnard]

I see tons of mechagnomes.

Maybe you should your eyes get checked then.
http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php
They're by far the least played race.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Maybe you should your eyes get checked then.
http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php
They're by far the least played race.

Not a good source for stats of WoW at all let alone allied races.

[EbaumsTipster]

Maybe you should your eyes get checked then.
http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php
They're by far the least played race.

There being THAT many Undead and so few humans is bullshit.

5% Tauren? LOL, it's the same at 120 too. What the fuck is this?

[FlubberPuddy]

Not a good source for stats of WoW at all let alone allied races.

That website is utter trash yet with the dissolution of WoW RealmPop it's all there is. It's still trash and inaccurate and should not be used to gauge actual race statistics.

Neither that World of Wargraphs site.

RIP RealmPop had the most accurate figures.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The dude flat-out lied when speaking on Zandalari getting dino forms saying that wasn't going to happen because "bear form and cat form" are about being those iconic animals or w/e. (paraphrasing)

Also believe he straight-faced lied on Lightforged Draenei as well when it was brought up at a Blizzcon interview but that's too far back for me to care enough to check. Remember the questioner asking him if those customizations would go to players and he said some bs like 'we add those things to npcs to give them a bit more of a differentiation' or something like that.

While I do think they like to add variety, it was just also true that LF Draenei were coming(See how the super skinny human uses the female Undead rig)

[Auxis]

Are y'all hyped for today's news or what?

What news?

[freernnur5]

What news?

Presumably new build and datamining, then if it unlocks a new area like Oribos, Ardenwealed or Maldraxxus we should get a blog post about the area.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Maybe you should your eyes get checked then.
http://warcraftrealms.com/census.php
They're by far the least played race.

Of course there's that many elves on both factions lol

Aaand shouldn't there be more Zandalari?

[Plehnard]

Not a good source for stats of WoW at all let alone allied races.

It's the only one left and the sample size is big enough to get tendencies fairly accurate.