If TBC becomes a thing, Blizzard needs to make "change" to prevent faction imbalance

[Thundering]

Nah you go play on shitty private servers, you have had your no changes with classic. Itd be a better game if it was improved upon. And i played during TBC

#No Changes in Classic wow never happened there is loads of changes.....

[Joker of Muerte]

#No Changes in Classic wow never happened there is loads of changes.....

Did you have blizzard change how certain classes played? Like make Ret paladins or Moonkins viable? how quests are done? XP? if not, thats nochanges.

anything else isnt part of the game in terms of gameplay which is what gives classic its playability.

Again , go play private servers if you want the archaic stuff from 2004-2006.

yall keep choosing different goal posts to be unhappy about with classic.

[Shiira]

What part of no changes don't you understand? No changes means no changes, I don't know how to describe this in a way that is easier to understand. Blizzard made changes. If you want to play a game that is designed by blizzard as they are in 2020, play retail. Many of us who play classic are doing so because we no longer like the decisions of the company that blizzard has become.

[Mosha]

What part of no changes don't you understand? No changes means no changes, I don't know how to describe this in a way that is easier to understand. Blizzard made changes. If you want to play a game that is designed by blizzard as they are in 2020, play retail. Many of us who play classic are doing so because we no longer like the decisions of the company that blizzard has become.

No that’s not what nochanges meant... it is literally impossible to make ‘nochanges’. They couldn’t just make the game run on the same platform as 2004 so saying this is what no changes meant is asinine.

When classic was first announced, people who didn’t advocate for it started chiming in with their opinions like “let’s make balance druid talents better so they can be competitive” and “let’s add transmog and lfr so it’s easier to play” and this is what sparked no changes. The goal wasn’t to make the server structure and the back end of things and the patch cycle completely 1:1, it was to fight against the ideas that classic needs ACTUALLY changed.

[Shiira]

The poster I was responding to was saying no changes were made because blizzard didn't buff ret and balance. A true no changes experience is obviously not possible, but blizzard aren't even trying to pretend they are trying to maintain as much vanilla parity as reasonably possible any more.

[Sardoc]

It depends what "No changes" means.

If it means more or less the same classes, progression, design etc., then yes, the core of Classic is #NoChanges.

But if you dig a hole deep enough to get to China, then no. We got 1.12 talents, didn't go through the stat changes on T1 gear, won't get "pre-nerf" (read: bugged) C'Thun, etc. etc.

Do I mind? No, of course not. Come on, apart from the puritans who want everything exactly as it was (probably including artificial 10 fps caps and 500 ms delay to emulate the hardware and bandwidth at the time), I think the majority is pretty happy with what we got.

Classic doubled WoW subscription count for a reason.

I'd still switch to TBC in an instant, sorry not sorry Vanilla fan(atic)s

[schwank05]

I tried to play on a PVP server and within a few weeks after getting into STV I instantly figured out why I hate forced PVP and have played on Normal servers since 2005. I quit when I was playing after 2 months because I couldn't stand leveling via Instance grinding anymore because you couldn't go anywhere in the world without being killed by a random raid size group of Horde characters that were killing any Alliance they saw. So the second they allowed transfers to non PVP realms I swapped my level 48 Warlock over, because Fuck rerolling and doing that God awful level grind from scratch again.

But the seconds I learned that TBC was more or less going to happen I stopped wasting my time on Classic, because I hated it when it was current and still do, but TBC was my best times in WOW, so when I know what will be happening hopefully lvl 58's Ill jump in that game and play it for sure without hesitation and never touch Classic again.

[enigma77]

No they don't. Let players play the faction they want, trying to force them to balance out leads to nothing but trouble. Just look at the mess Activision's musical war mode bonuses have caused in retail.

This is the biggest joke ever.

Horde racials are absurdly broken and overpowered. The game makes the choice FOR YOU.

Playing Alliance in TBC is willfully gimping yourself.

[Zero Wing]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems relevant here as well. The impression most people have that TBC populations were tilted toward the Horde seems possibly mistaken. To counter that, I'm going to give some Internet Wayback Machine links to WowJutsu, which was the WowProgress of its day.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071010...tsu.com/world/

There are a fairly balanced number of Horde vs. Alliance guilds in the top 100 and there are MORE total Alliance guilds and MORE Alliance ranked guilds according to the sidebar on the left.

Population balance appears to be similar between regions:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011...wjutsu.com/us/
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011...wjutsu.com/eu/

With the US being more Alliance-heavy than the EU, but both being Alliance-heavy. Keep in mind that this is over halfway through TBC, as the top guilds have cleared BT and MH. Now, Classic-TBC servers might end up being heavily unbalanced in favor of the Horde, but it doesn't appear that they were back when the content was new.

[sibut]

/laughs in PvE server

[Will]

All they need to do is give humans EMFH and both faction Paladins both Seals like they did in Wrath. Problem solved.

[deenman]

No Changes crowd had their say for Vanilla. This time around they can sod off. No changes is not only unrealistic, but it's a terrible idea. I don't want them to launch TBC based on end-of-expansion boss and dungeon tuning, class power and assistance buffs. I DO want Alliance Paladins to get Seal of the Martyr. I DO think racials should be tweaked a bit. If they don't, it's going to be a complete mess. Why? Just so you can brag about it being authentic? No. This is a perfect opportunity to improve some things.

wile i do agree that some changes are good for a smoother experience,stuff like changing actual spells?no thats going to far,might as well implement lfr at that point

[kenn9530]

What part of no changes don't you understand? No changes means no changes, I don't know how to describe this in a way that is easier to understand. Blizzard made changes. If you want to play a game that is designed by blizzard as they are in 2020, play retail. Many of us who play classic are doing so because we no longer like the decisions of the company that blizzard has become.

But you do like the changes blizzard have made or you wouldnt be playing classic, there is not much difference other than content compared to classic or retail, the game is pretty much the same as it always has been.

Classic doubled WoW subscription count for a reason.

it nowhere near doubled the subs, it boosted subs up a large amount but it nowhere near gained 3-4 millions subs just because of classic, but has lost most of those subs it gained in a few months.

[Vampyrr]

What part of no changes don't you understand? No changes means no changes, I don't know how to describe this in a way that is easier to understand. Blizzard made changes. If you want to play a game that is designed by blizzard as they are in 2020, play retail. Many of us who play classic are doing so because we no longer like the decisions of the company that blizzard has become.

Yea but only the crazy fans really wanted that. Majority of players would like balance and some changes to overall improve things

[Jurwi]

What are the reasons for this? Outside of subjective reasons like blood elf aesthetics or faction psychology, the main reasons for faction imbalance on TBC servers stems from the fact that horde racials are considered slightly better for PvE and much better for PvP. But one of the largest difference is in Paladins as the Horde Seal of Blood is a huge buff over Alliance paladins. This means that from an objective point of view, both PvP and PvE players have no reason to roll Alliance.

Actually the main reason is just Alliance races are simply super sissy compared to the Horde. I always figured only the hardcore Legolas-fans and 50 year olds that find orcs and trolls silly while playing from their nursing homes roll Alliance.

[Thundering]

Did you have blizzard change how certain classes played? Like make Ret paladins or Moonkins viable? how quests are done? XP? if not, thats nochanges.

anything else isnt part of the game in terms of gameplay which is what gives classic its playability.

Again , go play private servers if you want the archaic stuff from 2004-2006.

yall keep choosing different goal posts to be unhappy about with classic.

They Changed Prot pvp paladins massively since now reckoning stacks don't hold when you go out of combat, you can't prestack it anymore then use on a target of your choising.
This has destroyed that game style entirely.

But since this is change to the Alliance and paladins they dont care about the complaints. As an example.

We have the "removal" of Av "premades" also a change of gameplay, this was Classic Av for everyone that where not a random per. in Classic.... and so on

[AeneasBK]

I don't understand why they don't have a "Pick my server for me" option at character creation, for that % of players who *haven't* started with friends already playing. When I first picked up the game it chose Hellfire server for me before it knew what faction I wanted, how was that the sensible way to go about it, I had no knowledge of what Hellfire server was going to be like, I was new to the game.

I'm sure Classic and "TBC Classic" or w/e they call it will be comprised nearly entirely of people who have played before but there has to be a marginal portion who aren't really fussed about the server. Use these players to as "filler" for servers that are starting to become unbalanced. Roll a Tauren shaman? X server needs more horde, a Nelf hunter? Y server needs more Alliance.

Frankly I'd cap any new characters on a new account from rolling one faction if that server was unbalanced, "just say No." but I probably underestimate how much people only play this game as something to do with their online crew, rather than for the game itself, or meeting new people; and how many people would ragequit if they found they couldn't roll yet another horde on Magtheridon :P

[Zarator8]

Frankly I'd cap any new characters on a new account from rolling one faction if that server was unbalanced, "just say No." but I probably underestimate how much people only play this game as something to do with their online crew, rather than for the game itself, or meeting new people; and how many people would ragequit if they found they couldn't roll yet another horde on Magtheridon :P

At the very least, it begs the question of why this system should be employed for anything other than PvP servers. What would the point of using it on a PvE server be?

[Sardoc]

it nowhere near doubled the subs, it boosted subs up a large amount but it nowhere near gained 3-4 millions subs just because of classic, but has lost most of those subs it gained in a few months.

Quoting J. Allen Brack:

Given the content updates for modern WoW, and the cadence that we have for Classic, we exited our year with a subscriber base that was double what it was at the end of Q2

I'm sure retail content updates contributed something, but it's pretty obvious it was mainly due to Classic. There are 43 Classic realms on my realm list, and only 4 of them say "Low" population. Everything else is Meduim/Full, and 8 are Locked (meaning completely full). What, do you think there aren't 3-4 million people playing on all these servers? I'd say there easily are 3-4 million people playing on them.

"Lost most of those subs"? Clearly not.

[AeneasBK]

At the very least, it begs the question of why this system should be employed for anything other than PvP servers. What would the point of using it on a PvE server be?

I'm not sure if you mean the paragraph you quoted, (which I don't necessarily think is what they *should* do, it's just what I'd have done; but like I say I probably underestimate how many people that would upset ) or the other part of my post; but ye, it wouldn't be really needed for PvE servers; but the storyline at least makes more sense (maybe not Vanlla/TBC as the faction war wasn't as front+centre as it was Wrath onwards) if the factions are slightly equal, even on them.