To whom who agreed that accessibility was healthy for WoW

[Lolites]

This is completely insane. Your point is inherently contradictory. If two games are roughly the same but one ""forces"" you to interact with other players whereas the other one doesn't, the former is always going to be the more social game.

thats... not how it works... being forced to be social somewhere in the middle of the spectrum (bcs its not social or no, you know, its not a fucking switch) or choice to be social anywhere on the spectrum, so some people will be extremely social some extremely associal...
people will be people, they will choose what they want, but the game itself is not LESS social just bcs people want to be less social...

whatever, key to happines is not to argue with morons so ill just ignore you and move on

[Elias01]

thats... not how it works... being forced to be social somewhere in the middle of the spectrum (bcs its not social or no, you know, its not a fucking switch) or choice to be social anywhere on the spectrum, so some people will be extremely social some extremely associal...
people will be people, they will choose what they want, but the game itself is not LESS social just bcs people want to be less social...

whatever, key to happines is not to argue with morons so ill just ignore you and move on

I am.not social social player. Only thing i do on retail is lfr/lfg content. Do i enyoj it? Absolutly not. Its boring hollow single player experience.

When i play classic despite not being social player i force myself to find and create groups for classic content. Do i like to create groups for it? No. Do i end up having fun in content i forced myself to create group for it and interact with other players? Absolutly yes.

[Nerovar]

I am.not social social player. Only thing i do on retail is lfr/lfg content. Do i enyoj it? Absolutly not. Its boring hollow single player experience.

When i play classic despite not being social player i force myself to find and create groups for classic content. Do i like to create groups for it? No. Do i end up having fun in content i forced myself to create group for it and interact with other players? Absolutly yes.

Pretty much this. Forcing people out of their comfort zones allows them to experience things they'd otherwise miss out on. That's what makes it so good.

[Asrialol]

Typical example of a OP taking a Blizzard statement and then manipulating the statement to suit his agenda.

Nice one, OP.

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I am.not social social player. Only thing i do on retail is lfr/lfg content. Do i enyoj it? Absolutly not. Its boring hollow single player experience.

When i play classic despite not being social player i force myself to find and create groups for classic content. Do i like to create groups for it? No. Do i end up having fun in content i forced myself to create group for it and interact with other players? Absolutly yes.

So you're saying you have issues, basically. Playing a game where you absolutely don't enjoy the main content you do. Wow. Seek help.

[Elias01]

Pretty much this. Forcing people out of their comfort zones allows them to experience things they'd otherwise miss out on. That's what makes it so good.

This is exactly what people here dont understand. Best and most fun things always happens after you force yourself out of your conmfort zone.

When i move out from my parrents i had to find new job, move all my things, find apartment, it cost huge amounth of money and time. It was stresfull and not fun. Do i eynoj being on my own with my gf? Absolutly yes.

Making things less acessible so players.do not have to adapt and they can play withing their confort zone will never create fun experience. Never. Players should adapt to the game and no game to players.

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Typical example of a OP taking a Blizzard statement and then manipulating the statement to suit his agenda.

Nice one, OP.

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So you're saying you have issues, basically. Playing a game where you absolutely don't enjoy the main content you do. Wow. Seek help.

I dont play it just like majority of players what have alredy quit. And anything above lfr/lfg isnt main content. At that point you have alredy beating whole wow content. All you do is repeating it on higher difficulty and that is not new content.

[Asrialol]

This is exactly what people here dont understand. Best and most fun things always happens after you force yourself out of your conmfort zone.

When i move out from my parrents i had to find new job, move all my things, find apartment, it cost huge amounth of money and time. It was stresfull and not fun. Do i eynoj being on my own with my gf? Absolutly yes.

Making things less acessible so players.do not have to adapt and they can ppay eithing their confort zone will never create fun experience. Never. Players should adapt to the game and no game to players.

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I dont play it just like majority of players what have alredy quit. And anything above lfr/lfg isnt main content. At that point you have alredy beating whole wow content. All you do is repeating it on higher difficulty and that is not new content.

I said main content "you do". I never talked about content above lfg or lfr as you didn't mention that you did that content. Weird defence mechanics you got there.

Some people like classic and that's fine of course. It actually makes sense that the people who mainly do the easier lfr / lfg content likes classic as well, since classic content is quite simple.

[Lolites]

I am.not social social player. Only thing i do on retail is lfr/lfg content. Do i enyoj it? Absolutly not. Its boring hollow single player experience.

When i play classic despite not being social player i force myself to find and create groups for classic content. Do i like to create groups for it? No. Do i end up having fun in content i forced myself to create group for it and interact with other players? Absolutly yes.

tell me ONE just ONE FUCKING REASON why you cant force yourself to create group in retail? bcs if you have to FORCE YOURSELF into it in classic you definitely can force yourself into it in retail, so as i said milion fucking times already, ITS NOT GAME ISSUE, ITS PEOPLE ISSUE

if you dont want to be social, dont be, but dont blame the game for choice YOU MADE

[Nobleshield]

There's no reason you can't have the same social aspect in Classic (which isn't that amazing as it's made out to be) in Retail. Nothing stops people from being social in a Dungeon Finder group. Nothing stops people being talkative and coordinating in Raid Finder. Yet people don't want to do it often.

That's a people problem not an accessibility problem. If you don't want to be social because you may not see someone again (which you know you can friend people cross realm and talk to them) then you're just an antisocial person and it's not the system's fault. I talk in dungeon groups. I don't rant about nothing but I'll be friendly or helpful and I've never had anyone mind. Even in LFR I'll broach conversation especially about coordinating things.

People are just selfish and don't care about "strangers", that's 100% the issue.

[Nerovar]

tell me ONE just ONE FUCKING REASON why you cant force yourself to create group in retail? bcs if you have to FORCE YOURSELF into it in classic you definitely can force yourself into it in retail, so as i said milion fucking times already, ITS NOT GAME ISSUE, ITS PEOPLE ISSUE

if you dont want to be social, dont be, but dont blame the game for choice YOU MADE

You just don't want to understand it, do you? There's a difference between forcing yourself to do something despite knowing that there's an easier, more convenient way of approaching things and forcing yourself to do something because it's the only way you're going to get somewhere. People will usually take the path of least resistance. Just look at the dungeon finder. If you can form a group and get transported to a dungeon by the press of a button why would you go out of your way to manually find people for your group by talking to them, inviting them and then travelling to the dungeon together like you do in classic (which also rewards you less loot/xp in retail).

In one of these examples the game clearly promotes player interaction whereas the other one doesn't.

Players don't interact with each other in a vacuum but in a very specifically designed environment that is there to steer them in a direction. It's not a player problem, it's a game design problem (which is also why these experiences differ vastly in retail and classic).

[mysticx]

Than you clearly never played classic.

Um yeah, i did play Classic, from EU release on in, any talking going on was pure business, the "LF1M: Strat scarlet"-search, calling out CC for mobs (Markers weren't there yet, mages would spam "Detect magic" to tag mobs with the spell effect), the always fun "Do that optional boss or i'm leaving", divvying up loot (Or "Is there an enchanter in the group?", as the case may be), a lot of talk, but nothing i would call "Social", and funny enough, except for marking CC, Blizz automated it all over time, the only time actual conversation came up was when the group stalled for some reason and we had time to kill waiting for a replacement.

[Lurker1]

I can only speak for myself, but I somehow managed to continue playing with the same people for the entire history of WoW. I don't think it's Blizzard's fault if you're antisocial.

Your confuseing antisocial with antibullshit sir .

[Sansnom]

I am.not social social player. Only thing i do on retail is lfr/lfg content. Do i enyoj it? Absolutly not. Its boring hollow single player experience.

Then don't do LFR. There are other forms of raiding.

When i play classic despite not being social player i force myself to find and create groups for classic content. Do i like to create groups for it? No. Do i end up having fun in content i forced myself to create group for it and interact with other players? Absolutly yes.

Group contents still exist in retail. What group contents exist in classic that do not exist in retail?

And you can still interact with people in retail when in a group. What is stopping you from talking to people in retail but not in chat? Spamming trade chat looking for a PUG is not my idea of social interaction.

LFR and LFG are just tools to ease the process of finding people to join a group. Once in a group, you can still interact. Why does the tool for forming groups is important in social interaction? Spamming trade chat is better?

[WowClassic]

Just play Classic, it's where all the cool kids are. I haven't thought about retail for a long time.

[rrayy]

You just don't want to understand it, do you? There's a difference between forcing yourself to do something despite knowing that there's an easier, more convenient way of approaching things and forcing yourself to do something because it's the only way you're going to get somewhere. People will usually take the path of least resistance. Just look at the dungeon finder. If you can form a group and get transported to a dungeon by the press of a button why would you go out of your way to manually find people for your group by talking to them, inviting them and then travelling to the dungeon together like you do in classic (which also rewards you less loot/xp in retail).

In one of these examples the game clearly promotes player interaction whereas the other one doesn't.

Players don't interact with each other in a vacuum but in a very specifically designed environment that is there to steer them in a direction. It's not a player problem, it's a game design problem (which is also why these experiences differ vastly in retail and classic).

Wrong. It's a player problem., If once can force themselves in classic, they can force themselves in retail. Thee game doesn't promote anything. Not a game problem at all.

[Beefhammer]

No it doesnt happend today. You dont have to do any of that stuff in lfr, lfg and world content.

Not its you who act lile socializing = having fun party with friends thats not what people want back. They just want back feel that they play with real players and not just bots tp fill your party.

You didn't have to do any of it back then either is my point. People did then and people do today. Also nothing prevents anyone from from playing with server people, or people on their friends list or even making friends in runs and adding those players to make a list to pull from later.

[Elias01]

You didn't have to do any of it back then either is my point. People did then and people do today. Also nothing prevents anyone from from playing with server people, or people on their friends list or even making friends in runs and adding those players to make a list to pull from later.

Yes you had to. You actualy had to otherwise you wouldt finish content.

[Kolvarg]

Random people outside one’s guild were *always* replaceable to the point of being little more than NPCs anyway, it was just a huge pain in the behind to replace them (Kick them out, hearth back to the city to find a replacement, travel back, all the time praying the trash doesn’t respawn in the mean time), so you were forced to endure more of their shit, so social...

People hardly ever talked back then either, *maybe* during a “Damn, the healer left, try to find another one”-pause, but not when the run was actually progressing.

If it's harder to replace someone, then they are by definition less replaceable.

And exactly because of this the game by design incentivized more social contact (especially long term), since the least resistance path was either joining a guild or at least building a healthy friend list of known players.

When it's super easy to replace people, the path of least resistance for a lot of people becomes just joining and leaving enough groups until they can get into one that can do whatever the player wants to do. Whether that's better or worse is completely dependent on the player and their playstyle, but imo it's undeniable that it is by design a less social experience.

Now whether this actually translated in a noticeable difference on average is hard to know for sure. Logic dictates it should, but realistically it also dictates it could vary wildly from server to server and ultimately any one person's experience was their own and not necessarily reflective of the average reality.

[Elias01]

Wrong. It's a player problem., If once can force themselves in classic, they can force themselves in retail. Thee game doesn't promote anything. Not a game problem at all.

You have to force yourself in classic and you dont have to force yourself on retail thats that difference.

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Then don't do LFR. There are other forms of raiding.



Group contents still exist in retail. What group contents exist in classic that do not exist in retail?

And you can still interact with people in retail when in a group. What is stopping you from talking to people in retail but not in chat? Spamming trade chat looking for a PUG is not my idea of social interaction.

LFR and LFG are just tools to ease the process of finding people to join a group. Once in a group, you can still interact. Why does the tool for forming groups is important in social interaction? Spamming trade chat is better?

Group content you talk about are higher difficulty levels which majority of players do not do.

[Rune B]

Blizz only gave people what they asked for. But it's their responsibility to know when that's a good thing, and when it's not.

The problem is not that LFG & LFR make things too convenient - it's that there's little tangible benefit to guilding up and playing with the same people over and over unless you're playing really difficult content.

No one is prohibited from playing the game the way everyone used to. It's just that most people will choose convenience over what may or may not be a positive experience with a group of other people.

It's time to bring guild bonuses back, as well as the option to guild accounts rather than just individual characters (note that I said option, not obligation).

[Kolvarg]

Nothing stops people from being social in a Dungeon Finder group. Nothing stops people being talkative and coordinating in Raid Finder. Yet people don't want to do it often.

Nothing stops people from joining a book club and do group readings. That doesn't make book reading social.

While ultimately players will do what they want, it's undeniable that game design influences how players behave and interact with the game and, in this case, with other players. If no other reason then at least by the simple fact that different designs will attract and hold different types of players.