Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Logwyn]

Is there any other country that protects the right to own firearms?

Not to the extent the US does. There are a few that have laws and not constitutional amendments. Like Guatemala or Honduras says that its a protected right but only if the firearm is legal by law. Didn't Switzerland require firearms in all homes due to universal conscription?

[Kellhound]

Not to the extent the US does. There are a few that have laws and not constitutional amendments. Like Guatemala or Honduras says that its a protected right but only if the firearm is legal by law. Didn't Switzerland require firearms in all homes due to universal conscription?

Members of the Swiss military can keep their service rifles in there homes, but universal ownership is not a requirement. It is a country that shows large numbers of military rifle ownership does not equal a high murder rate.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Not to the extent the US does. There are a few that have laws and not constitutional amendments. Like Guatemala or Honduras says that its a protected right but only if the firearm is legal by law. Didn't Switzerland require firearms in all homes due to universal conscription?

It's a by product of our militia-based military. We are issued a personal weapon at boot camp with which we train, and later bring back home during our ~10 years or part-time service (3-4 weeks a year), while having mandatory shooting practice as civilian once a year outside of military service. Once we're done, we can ask to keep the weapon for a minimal fee if you show minimal interest in sport shooting, at which point it will be converted to semi-auto.

During my first years of service I had to carry in public transport my full auto capable rifle in the open at least 3 times a year : when going to my base for a period of service, when heading back to civilian life, and when having to attend my mandatory shooting practice. Until the late 2000s we were even issued a can of 20 rounds in case of war.

The mandatory shooting practice made it a requirement that most villages have a normed 300m shooting range, most of the time maintained by local shooting associations which are subsidized notably with official ordnance, and which have a significant tradition of Youth Shooters, particularly in the countryside, where teenagers practice shooting as a sport with actual service weapons (but in semi-auto), the most adept would even have their weapon lent to them and be able to bring it back home.

While there are much fewer people serving in the army now, for a total population of 8 Mio, before 2004 the total fighting force was 400'000 strong, and even 800'000 prior to 1995. Each and every men being issued a personal weapon they'd keep at home during (and often after) their 10-15 years of service. While I was a young teen they even offloaded the stockpiles of WW2 era rifles, my dad got me one for $100 at the time, he could have bought 2 with no check other than showing his identity card.

Due to new post-terror attacks EU policies, procurement of weapons is a bit more annoying now (not that its gonna be much use, given that illegal, quality AK from former Yugoslavia are widely available in countries like France...). But the quantity of weapons in the country is still massive, and shooting is still a popular sport, albeit a more niche one than it used to be in the past.

[Mayhem]

I don't know about Portugal's gun laws specifically, but where guns are available in Yurop, very thorough police and psychiatric evaluations are required in order to obtain a license. That's not the case for cars and trucks. Surely we don't wanna compare deaths caused by irresponsible drivers to those caused by irresponsible gun owners (or downright criminals) in Europe, do we? Even in the US, that's pretty moot, imagine over here.

What point are you trying to make?

160k died to accidents in the EU back in 2016 (majority of them in the home).
3.2k died from assaults in that same year.

US numbers for assault are about 6 times that of the EU while the EU has 4/3 of the US' population.

Fun fact, the number of accidental deaths in the US in 2016 was 160k.

[Ghostpanther]

Yes, common sense. The fanaticism for unlimited "rights" to all kinds of weapons is pretty weird.

US citizens do not have unlimited rights to all kinds of weapons. I do not know of any private citizen which has a nuclear weapon. In Ohio, it is illegal to carry a switchblade concealed. Also to carry a firearm without a permit, concealed.

And this article sort of touches on the joule (?) limits on firearms from your country....https://www.foxnews.com/us/botched-h...nd-dead-report

A pregnant woman and her boyfriend were fatally shot inside their Staten Island home Monday by a convicted killer during a botched home robbery, *sources said.

The suspect Philip Moreno, 45, allegedly stormed into the home in Arlington at about 5 p.m. and gunned down both victims in the living room, according to law-enforcement sources.

Ana Desousa, 33, who was pregnant, and her partner, Alafia Rodriguez, 46, were discovered dead on the floor by police.

Cops quickly found Moreno nearby allegedly carrying a gun and zip ties he apparently intended to use on the couple, the sources said.

Moreno, who allegedly was carrying a 22-caliber Ruger when cops caught him, was arrested in July 1992 for the murder of *Theodis Watson on Staten Island, sources said.

I am sure the .22 caliber round would fall under the terrible destructive power of high powered militaristic weapons.

One of my wife's cousins, was killed by a guy defending himself against him, with a .22 cal. revolver.

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It's a by product of our militia-based military. We are issued a personal weapon at boot camp with which we train, and later bring back home during our ~10 years or part-time service (3-4 weeks a year), while having mandatory shooting practice as civilian once a year outside of military service. Once we're done, we can ask to keep the weapon for a minimal fee if you show minimal interest in sport shooting, at which point it will be converted to semi-auto.

During my first years of service I had to carry in public transport my full auto capable rifle in the open at least 3 times a year : when going to my base for a period of service, when heading back to civilian life, and when having to attend my mandatory shooting practice. Until the late 2000s we were even issued a can of 20 rounds in case of war.

The mandatory shooting practice made it a requirement that most villages have a normed 300m shooting range, most of the time maintained by local shooting associations which are subsidized notably with official ordnance, and which have a significant tradition of Youth Shooters, particularly in the countryside, where teenagers practice shooting as a sport with actual service weapons (but in semi-auto), the most adept would even have their weapon lent to them and be able to bring it back home.

While there are much fewer people serving in the army now, for a total population of 8 Mio, before 2004 the total fighting force was 400'000 strong, and even 800'000 prior to 1995. Each and every men being issued a personal weapon they'd keep at home during (and often after) their 10-15 years of service. While I was a young teen they even offloaded the stockpiles of WW2 era rifles, my dad got me one for $100 at the time, he could have bought 2 with no check other than showing his identity card.

Due to new post-terror attacks EU policies, procurement of weapons is a bit more annoying now (not that its gonna be much use, given that illegal, quality AK from former Yugoslavia are widely available in countries like France...). But the quantity of weapons in the country is still massive, and shooting is still a popular sport, albeit a more niche one than it used to be in the past.

And I am sure that rifle stills looks and functions the same as before, with the exception it is only semi-auto afterwards?

[omeomorfismo]

So, one can be a car enthusiast, but only a gun fetishist, because guns are bad and "fetishist" is pejorative? How puritanical.


It's not the same kind of medical evaluation. The one required for guns requires a certificate from your doctor, an examination from a state or military doctor, and you're automatically denied the license if you take (or have ever taken) a plethora or medications (legal medications, that is). It's also automatically rejected if you've ever been caught using illegal drugs, even after the depenalization for personal use. It gets so complicated it often requires a commission of five specialist state doctors if you've taken legal medications for, say, blood pressure or insomnia, even 20 years prior to the application, or have various health conditions, of which much more are taken into consideration if compared to those checked for a driver's license - the only similar thing is perhaps the eyesight test (if your sight ain't that right, you won't be denied a gun license, but just like in the driving one, you'll be compelled to use glasses or contacts).

As to police background checks, if you've ever been caught w/o a ticket on public transportation or got a parking ticket, that's already ground enough to have your gun license denied - your conduct must be "irreprehensible and not prone to potentially anti-social behaviours". Your family and friends are also checked for criminal activities, including minor ones (though I suppose they'd let a parking ticket your grandpa got slide).
TL;DR if the same criteria applied to driving licenses no Italian citizen would drive.

As to your story, did you both have the same amount (i.d. within the limit for personal use) on you, and/or in your system? If yes, you could've/should've pursued legal action for racial discrimination.

the drive license is denied in the case of impairing medical drug use and technically even for illegal ones (in fact i had to go to the SERT to prove my not addiction, otherwise i would have my license automatically taken in the "commissariato del governo"). and if you have driving related records (i hope this is the right term in english) your license is denied...
but then, clearly the criterias are different, one is for driving, the other is to have deadly ranged weapons. the amount of driving casualties is so smaller in relation of the total use compared to weapon usage that "grazie al cazzo" there is a so deep difference for the license...

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

And I am sure that rifle stills looks and functions the same as before, with the exception it is only semi-auto afterwards?

The bolt-action rifle in 7,5 × 55 mm GP11 is untouched, and so are the pistols wielded by officers (except maybe for a stamp). For many Lt and some specialists who get a pistol, it sometimes is a little personal drama to part with their personal rifle, as they are allowed only one personal weapon IIRC. Similarly a lot of former police pistols end up on the civilian market, with Kanton marking distinguishing them.

On automatic weapons such as the Stgw57/SG510 and Stgw90/SG550, only the firing mechanism is changed to semi-auto only, down from selective fire. All the rest is unchanged with full length rifle barrel, bayonet&rifle grenade compatible muzzle, built-in bipod, 20-rounds magazine and foldable stock for the latter. I could even keep the bayonet.

IIRC they had to make an exception in the EU-inspired new legislation for the 20-rounds magazine. I think there are also more restrictions on the procurement of compact shoulder weapons, but like for automatic weapons I've read somewhere that it is still possible to obtain special permission.

There were a number of changes in legislation these last two decades, and in when I finished my service for good and got to keep my rifle, I had to apply for an authorization (essentially a background check that you file with the police). Now you have to sort of justify it, and as aforementioned "special" weapons and big magazines fall under exception rule.

Given that I acquired my right under the previous regulations, I might still retain my "special" privileges.

I haven't had much time to shoot the last years with 4 babies in a row, but I look forward to bring them soon to the range :
-from age 5 children are allowed in and can shoot pellet gun like in the kermesse
-age 10 they can start with .22LR (we probably did that a bit younger while in our family's cabin in the woods)
-age 12 they can start with the actual military assault rifle, and take shooting as a sport.

There is even an ancient competition where only minors 13 to 17 compete in shooting with military assault rifle : the Knabenschiessen. We also have the Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen every year, where during a week-end, pretty much all the shooting societies organize a nationwide shooting competition open from age 15.

[Coolthulhu]

What point are you trying to make?

160k died to accidents in the EU back in 2016 (majority of them in the home).
3.2k died from assaults in that same year.

US numbers for assault are about 6 times that of the EU while the EU has 4/3 of the US' population.

Fun fact, the number of accidental deaths in the US in 2016 was 160k.

Did France have a knee-jerk reaction and ban trucks, or more reasonably implemented more stringent background checks for truck rentals and such (which didn't stop more vehicle-ramming attacks from happening, obviously, but at least none similar in magnitude to the Nice one)?
Do your "fun facts" constitute properly differentiated and sourced data, or is it just something you slammed there out for the sake of arguing, disregarding intellectual honesty entirely?

the drive license is denied in the case of impairing medical drug use and technically even for illegal ones (in fact i had to go to the SERT to prove my not addiction, otherwise i would have my license automatically taken in the "commissariato del governo"). and if you have driving related records (i hope this is the right term in english) your license is denied...
but then, clearly the criterias are different, one is for driving, the other is to have deadly ranged weapons. the amount of driving casualties is so smaller in relation of the total use compared to weapon usage that "grazie al cazzo" there is a so deep difference for the license...

The underlined part is false, because it's not an automatic decision, it goes on a case-by-case basis, and the legislation on the matter is a very grey area. What I know for a fact is that it's forbidden to drive if your psycho-physical state is impaired. If it's not impaired one can drive. Take this here example: epileptics can drive if they haven't had a seizure in 2 years. Anticonvulsants are under the category of meds that potentially impair one's ability to drive. But, again, epileptics can drive if they're psycho-physical state isn't impaired and haven't suffered seizures in 2 years (which requires taking anticonvulsants, which are potentially impairing meds, so you see, it's all much more complicated than a simple "you can" or "you can't" when it comes to meds - it's easier with illegal drugs for obvious reasons).

I'm not sure about the bolded part. I thought Italy had a point system and you could regain them by attending to courses, so that's not quite correct either. As a friend of mine put it, "you have to really fuck up in order to have your driving license taken away". He's a cop, so who am I to state he's wrong.

Your last point doesn't make any sense, sorry. A car can be as deadly as a rifle, and cars are used everyday, everywhere, by everyone. Have you ever seen people other than LE strolling around with a AR-15s, or even just handguns, in Italy? Because I haven't. You say deaths by vehicles are so much smaller in relation to their total use compared to weapon usage... how so? Wanna know how many people lost their lives in shooting ranges in the last two years? 0. That doesn't seem a lot, compared to the 3.334 fatalities and 242.919 wounded in car accidents in 2018. Of course there have been some gun-related deaths too, mostly hunting accidents and suicides, with violent forearms use amounting to ~30% (of which the vast majority perpetrated with illegal weapons, which is a point very often overlooked by the hoplophobic lot: people who own guns legally extremely rarely use them to harm others, and no ban can stop criminals from acquiring them, this is even truer in Yurop than it is in the US for the simple fact that Yuropean gun ownership tends to be a privilege, whereas in the US it's a constitutional right) [source].

- - - Updated - - -

IIRC they had to make an exception in the EU-inspired new legislation for the 20-rounds magazine. I think there are also more restrictions on the procurement of compact shoulder weapons, but like for automatic weapons I've read somewhere that it is still possible to obtain special permission.

There were a number of changes in legislation these last two decades, and in when I finished my service for good and got to keep my rifle, I had to apply for an authorization (essentially a background check that you file with the police). Now you have to sort of justify it, and as aforementioned "special" weapons and big magazines fall under exception rule.

Correct. It's nonetheless easy, albeit rather bureaucratically painful, to obtain authorizations for "high capacity magazines" (i.e. those with capacity higher than 20 and 10 for handguns and "long guns" respectively IIRC, as per the infamous 2017 EU directive). Sporting and collecting are valid reasons in both Switzerland and Italy, although you might be imposed some additional security measures (alarms, armored doors, certified gun safes, all stuff I already had anyways).

[Svifnymr]

And I am sure that rifle stills looks and functions the same as before, with the exception it is only semi-auto afterwards?

I think they used to just swap the selectors to a semi-only, but with the newer EU regulations (since they're part of one of the plans, I forget which) not sure if further modifications are made now.

That said, there's a guy on one of the gun boards from Switzerland that posts about his purchases sometimes, and they can buy machineguns with a license. Much cheaper than ours too. Has some real nice Colt M16's, and they also get a good bit of other foreign stuff (like Israeli machineguns) that can't be imported into the USA after 1968.


The regulations are different, but hard to judge "better or worse".

Czech Republic also has a pretty active gun community, but is getting increasingly plowed over by the EU regulations that keep escalating.

Before this latest batch of bans, Canadian law made it easier to get a SBR there than here also. Anything less than 16" (or maybe 18) was considered a pistol, which required a license of course, but was different than the NFA laws here.

[omeomorfismo]

The underlined part is false, because it's not an automatic decision, it goes on a case-by-case basis, and the legislation on the matter is a very grey area. What I know for a fact is that it's forbidden to drive if your psycho-physical state is impaired. If it's not impaired one can drive. Take this here example: epileptics can drive if they haven't had a seizure in 2 years. Anticonvulsants are under the category of meds that potentially impair one's ability to drive. But, again, epileptics can drive if they're psycho-physical state isn't impaired and haven't suffered seizures in 2 years (which requires taking anticonvulsants, which are potentially impairing meds, so you see, it's all much more complicated than a simple "you can" or "you can't" when it comes to meds - it's easier with illegal drugs for obvious reasons).

I'm not sure about the bolded part. I thought Italy had a point system and you could regain them by attending to courses, so that's not quite correct either. As a friend of mine put it, "you have to really fuck up in order to have your driving license taken away". He's a cop, so who am I to state he's wrong.

Your last point doesn't make any sense, sorry. A car can be as deadly as a rifle, and cars are used everyday, everywhere, by everyone. Have you ever seen people other than LE strolling around with a AR-15s, or even just handguns, in Italy? Because I haven't. You say deaths by vehicles are so much smaller in relation to their total use compared to weapon usage... how so? Wanna know how many people lost their lives in shooting ranges in the last two years? 0. That doesn't seem a lot, compared to the 3.334 fatalities and 242.919 wounded in car accidents in 2018. Of course there have been some gun-related deaths too, mostly hunting accidents and suicides, with violent forearms use amounting to ~30% (of which the vast majority perpetrated with illegal weapons, which is a point very often overlooked by the hoplophobic lot: people who own guns legally extremely rarely use them to harm others, and no ban can stop criminals from acquiring them, this is even truer in Yurop than it is in the US for the simple fact that Yuropean gun ownership tends to be a privilege, whereas in the US it's a constitutional right) [source].

frankly i dont know the specific, but time ago my mum took some experimental drug for migraine and couldnt drive for some time.
sure, italy has point system, but there are violantion that simply cut all the points. then maybe is because im living in the north, but i know plenty of people that cant drive anymore because they are found too many times drunk (oh clearly, the license is retired every time, but the duration is increasing)

? even you aknowledge the biggest difference, a car *can* be deadly as a weapon. and still the probabilites to survive a sicko crashing with the car is still higher than surviving a bullet.
and sure i never saw nobody around with a weapon. thats something simply non cultural here in italy, i dont even know anyone with firearms.
then number are useless without context.
sure, the absolute numbers of fatalities with cars are higher than weapons, but you know, how many time cars are used compared to weapons? at least in italy?
try the calculous for micromort for driving and shooting. then you will know why in europe we stuck with obvious firearm legislation

[Coolthulhu]

frankly i dont know the specific, but time ago my mum took some experimental drug for migraine and couldnt drive for some time.
sure, italy has point system, but there are violantion that simply cut all the points. then maybe is because im living in the north, but i know plenty of people that cant drive anymore because they are found too many times drunk (oh clearly, the license is retired every time, but the duration is increasing)

Alcohol is treated differently than a prescribed med, legally, which makes sense - alcohol is a recreational drug (albeit legal), not e necessity. An experimental med is likewise treated different than an already approved one.

? even you aknowledge the biggest difference, a car *can* be deadly as a weapon. and still the probabilites to survive a sicko crashing with the car is still higher than surviving a bullet.
and sure i never saw nobody around with a weapon. thats something simply non cultural here in italy, i dont even know anyone with firearms.
then number are useless without context.
sure, the absolute numbers of fatalities with cars are higher than weapons, but you know, how many time cars are used compared to weapons? at least in italy?
try the calculous for micromort for driving and shooting. then you will know why in europe we stuck with obvious firearm legislation

There's no difference between a car and a gun. Both are tools, they don't have a mind of their own: their deadliness depends on the intent of whoever uses them. And the typical legal gun owner is very likely not to have any criminal intent, having subjected himself to that throng of checks (as far as criminals are concerned, it's way easier to get get weapons on the black market, or to steal them, since you know, criminals don't care about laws by definition).
As to the chances of surviving a car ramming vs. a bullet wound, there are too many factor to make such blanket statements, and it's a non sequitur anyway.
Last but not least, it boggles my mind when you say guns are not a cultural thing in Italy, especially in the North. Where do you think Beretta, Benelli, Tanfoglio, Uberti, Zanardini and others are from? You're ignoring five centuries worth of firearm culture, my dude.
Do you never go out and about in the countryside? Because if you did, you'd hear the gunshots in the hunting season. Northern Italy and Switzerland have a gun culture. Whether you see it or not, that's another thing. My business is Milan-based, and most of the people I know from Milan, Bergamo, Brescia and the zones around them own guns. There are plenty of private shooting ranges, too. Approach just about any abandoned mining facility in Lombardy and you'll hear gunshots in the weekends.

[Mayhem]

Did France have a knee-jerk reaction and ban trucks, or more reasonably implemented more stringent background checks for truck rentals and such (which didn't stop more vehicle-ramming attacks from happening, obviously, but at least none similar in magnitude to the Nice one)?
Do your "fun facts" constitute properly differentiated and sourced data, or is it just something you slammed there out for the sake of arguing, disregarding intellectual honesty entirely?

Those are official CDC and EU numbers and as has been mentioned already, you might also want to compare time-in-use before you make comparable claims, firearms never look good when compared to cars.

[Coolthulhu]

Those are official CDC and EU numbers and as has been mentioned already, you might also want to compare time-in-use before you make comparable claims, firearms never look good when compared to cars.

"EU numbers". Curious to see those. And no, you don't get to "it's been mentioned already" - if you say there are numbers, and have a thesis about these numbers, you have to post sources, because your word alone, well, you can probably guess how much it's worth. I could say that my other numbers (source: unspecified) tell a whole different story (and lo and behold, the sources I posted do tell a very different story). But I've learned that it's pointless to argue such things with people so ideologically tainted who think they know the Absolute Truth but refuse to provide any tangible proof whatsoever.

[Mayhem]

"EU numbers". Curious to see those. And no, you don't get to "it's been mentioned already" - if you say there are numbers, and have a thesis about these numbers, you have to post sources, because your word alone, well, you can probably guess how much it's worth. I could say that my other numbers (source: unspecified) tell a whole different story (and lo and behold, the sources I posted do tell a very different story). But I've learned that it's pointless to argue such things with people so ideologically tainted who think they know the Absolute Truth but refuse to provide any tangible proof whatsoever.

CDC you have to agree to the terms to view CDCs numbers so you'll have to look them up yourself.

Here's the EU link. click for information

[Coolthulhu]

CDC you have to agree to the terms to view CDCs numbers so you'll have to look them up yourself.

Here's the EU link. click for information

And what does it prove other than the three states with the most permissive gun laws (CH, CZ, IT) being on the right side of the curve exactly?

[Mayhem]

And what does it prove other than the three states with the most permissive gun laws (CH, CZ, IT) being on the right side of the curve exactly?

You asked for the links. Are you somewhat incapable of following what was being discussed?

[Coolthulhu]

You asked for the links. Are you somewhat incapable of following what was being discussed?

I could ask the same of you, given how you asked me what point was I trying to make, and then posted a link that only backs up my point of view. I knew there would've been fun to be had in coming back to these forums.

[Ghostpanther]

The bolt-action rifle in 7,5 × 55 mm GP11 is untouched, and so are the pistols wielded by officers (except maybe for a stamp). For many Lt and some specialists who get a pistol, it sometimes is a little personal drama to part with their personal rifle, as they are allowed only one personal weapon IIRC. Similarly a lot of former police pistols end up on the civilian market, with Kanton marking distinguishing them.

On automatic weapons such as the Stgw57/SG510 and Stgw90/SG550, only the firing mechanism is changed to semi-auto only, down from selective fire. All the rest is unchanged with full length rifle barrel, bayonet&rifle grenade compatible muzzle, built-in bipod, 20-rounds magazine and foldable stock for the latter. I could even keep the bayonet.

IIRC they had to make an exception in the EU-inspired new legislation for the 20-rounds magazine. I think there are also more restrictions on the procurement of compact shoulder weapons, but like for automatic weapons I've read somewhere that it is still possible to obtain special permission.

There were a number of changes in legislation these last two decades, and in when I finished my service for good and got to keep my rifle, I had to apply for an authorization (essentially a background check that you file with the police). Now you have to sort of justify it, and as aforementioned "special" weapons and big magazines fall under exception rule.

Given that I acquired my right under the previous regulations, I might still retain my "special" privileges.

I haven't had much time to shoot the last years with 4 babies in a row, but I look forward to bring them soon to the range :
-from age 5 children are allowed in and can shoot pellet gun like in the kermesse
-age 10 they can start with .22LR (we probably did that a bit younger while in our family's cabin in the woods)
-age 12 they can start with the actual military assault rifle, and take shooting as a sport.

There is even an ancient competition where only minors 13 to 17 compete in shooting with military assault rifle : the Knabenschiessen. We also have the Eidgenössisches Feldschiessen every year, where during a week-end, pretty much all the shooting societies organize a nationwide shooting competition open from age 15.

Interesting. Thanks for the information! And see, allowing all that has not turned your country into what some anti- gunners feel it does. And maybe you guys need a Swissexit. lol!

It is not just scum humans we need to protect ourselves from.....https://www.foxnews.com/us/georgia-d...itch-pack-dogs

A Georgia doctor found dead in a ditch on the side of the road was likely killed by a pack of dogs, police say.

Dr. Nancy Shaw, 62, was found dead in a ditch on the side of a road in Lyons, about 80 miles west of Savannah, in the early morning hours Thursday, WTOC reported.

She was a longtime internist at the Meadows Regional Medical Center located in the next town over in Vidalia, Ga. An autopsy confirmed she died from an animal attack, the Lyons Police Department said.

[omeomorfismo]

Alcohol is treated differently than a prescribed med, legally, which makes sense - alcohol is a recreational drug (albeit legal), not e necessity. An experimental med is likewise treated different than an already approved one.


There's no difference between a car and a gun. Both are tools, they don't have a mind of their own: their deadliness depends on the intent of whoever uses them. And the typical legal gun owner is very likely not to have any criminal intent, having subjected himself to that throng of checks (as far as criminals are concerned, it's way easier to get get weapons on the black market, or to steal them, since you know, criminals don't care about laws by definition).
As to the chances of surviving a car ramming vs. a bullet wound, there are too many factor to make such blanket statements, and it's a non sequitur anyway.
Last but not least, it boggles my mind when you say guns are not a cultural thing in Italy, especially in the North. Where do you think Beretta, Benelli, Tanfoglio, Uberti, Zanardini and others are from? You're ignoring five centuries worth of firearm culture, my dude.
Do you never go out and about in the countryside? Because if you did, you'd hear the gunshots in the hunting season. Northern Italy and Switzerland have a gun culture. Whether you see it or not, that's another thing. My business is Milan-based, and most of the people I know from Milan, Bergamo, Brescia and the zones around them own guns. There are plenty of private shooting ranges, too. Approach just about any abandoned mining facility in Lombardy and you'll hear gunshots in the weekends.

no difference? one is used to go around, the other is used to at minimum injure someone. sure, tools dont have minds, but you know, the minds behind a gun are deadly for definition, you dont shot to switch off lights...

many factor? a weapon is optimized to kill/injure someone, unlike a car that is optimized to cause less injures possible (at least now).

and yes weapons arent a cultural thing. surely there are bubbles with a concentration of gun enthusiast (in the north mostly fascist weirdos and lega nord old guard), but they are what? 1% of population?
then industry... i mean, italy even produce tons of componets for germany, but i doubt that anyone can say we are obsessed by little stuff for germans, most of weapon industry is for export. probably a standard italian could only name beretta... and surely im ignoring 5 centuries of culture, thats something so niche that probably even most gun weirdos doesnt know...
even hunting gun licenses are in steadily decline, in the last 50 years we lost 2/3 of them (from 2,3M to like 700K) with more or less 10M more people.

[Coolthulhu]

no difference? one is used to go around, the other is used to at minimum injure someone. sure, tools dont have minds, but you know, the minds behind a gun are deadly for definition, you dont shot to switch off lights...

many factor? a weapon is optimized to kill/injure someone, unlike a car that is optimized to cause less injures possible (at least now).

and yes weapons arent a cultural thing. surely there are bubbles with a concentration of gun enthusiast (in the north mostly fascist weirdos and lega nord old guard), but they are what? 1% of population?
then industry... i mean, italy even produce tons of componets for germany, but i doubt that anyone can say we are obsessed by little stuff for germans, most of weapon industry is for export. probably a standard italian could only name beretta... and surely im ignoring 5 centuries of culture, thats something so niche that probably even most gun weirdos doesnt know...
even hunting gun licenses are in steadily decline, in the last 50 years we lost 2/3 of them (from 2,3M to like 700K) with more or less 10M more people.

Really? That's interesting, because I use my weapons for sporting purposes (and if you think a .22 LR such as a 1827F Fortner is "optimized to kill", I can only laugh at your ingenuity and lack of knowledge). Besides, who says an AR-15 or a Kalashnikov can't be used for sporting purposes? Practical Shooting is a CONI-recognized sport, you know. And even if I wanted to indulge in some plinking, where's the harm in that exactly? Are you an animist or something?
But I get it. You must be one of those people who think Italy's only national hallmark is soccer (who do you think won pretty much every shooting discipline in the last Olympics?) and holds completely unrealistic and ideologically tainted views in regards to gun owners (your words: they're "gun weirdos", "fascist weirdos"). Well, let me tell you something: the true weirdos are those who cling to baseless generalizations and hold their ignorance high with pride, and brand those who aren't ignorant as "weirdos". A standard italian... what even is a "standard italian"? Didn't you complain of getting discriminated against because of your racial background Do you realize how similar you sound to whoever it is that allegedly punished you for being a mestizo?
Oh, and just for the record: the number of gun licenses issues has been increasingly steadily for years now. Hunting licenses grew by 59.632 in 2017 compared to 2016, and sporting ones by 101.979. Perhaps you should refer to reliable sources such as the Ministry of the Interior instead of pulling numbers straight out of your imagination. So at the end of day... you're wrong. On all accounts.