Seriously, f**k Hunters Mark

[froschhure]

I'm okay with it coming back. but it really shouldn't be on the GCD.

Yeah take stealth off the gcd too

Lul, no thanks

[Yarathir]

I'm sincerely worried, seems they're not reworking classes as much as simply returning lots of shit to press. Guess that's what happens when the loudest screecher's feedback never amounts to anything more substantial than "TOO FEW BUTTONS TO PRESS!!"...

No but how will people know I'm really smart if I don't push six inconsequential buttons? I can't just push four, because then people will call my class braindead!

[Eapoe]

firemages need to put much more work in their dps than a bm,so no not rly,people cry about bm because of how easy their life is,and wile they arent always nr1,they arent really far away...look at surv hunter or windwalker or feral,specs far harder to play and they have seen zero tier where they arent bellow middle

False equivalency. WW, Feral, and Aff Lock put in more work than Fire Mage, so by your logic they should be way above Fire Mage, which they aren’t. I’m assuming you are also comparing melee to rdps? Again, doesn’t work. There have also been tiers where rdps SV, Feral, and WW have been better than middle of the pack.
So, your argument is literally working against you right now.
Bottom line is any time BM actually plays well people flip out about them being 100% mobile and act like it’s so unfair, yet when BM is dogshit or even just slightly behind others people don’t give a rats ass. Let me guess, it’s because people want to use the excuse of equals out, it then where’s the equality to others? As per your own opening line, why aren’t harder specs rewarded more? Go ahead, I’ll wait for the justification thru mental gymnastics. You didn’t even address the main point, let alone all of them, except locking onto 1 specific part about fire mages to something you could make a statement about. This meant you glossed over every single main point while picking a side topic.

[Jamais]

I like how after how many pages, people are still unable to properly elaborate why a debuff with 100% uptime and a gcd is somehow better than having that damage baked in to your abilities, thus not needing the garbage gcd.

Let's just bake every spell into a single ability, after all, why just not have everything baked in then. What is the point of cds, timers, resourses etc.

GCD is an ok tradeoff for an flavoursome, fitting ability which gives a flat 5% dmg increase and breaks stealth.

But who am i talking to anyway, this is the same community who screeched that BfA Marksman is garbage because they have to stand still 20% of the time to cast an ability called AIMED shot and who's whole ''make hunters great again'' mantra is just a cover for ''give me everything instant and on the move''.

People really need to stop parroting this idea that GCD makes or breaks class design. It was prevalent in more than a half of this game lifespan. Game will never, NEVER go back to that shitshow of a spammy clusterfuck that was MoP class design. Only on MMO champ is the expansion with such button bloat, absurd cchains, one shot macros, instant spells and straight overpowered specs (like whole of warlock class) considered a pinnacle of class design.

Blizzard reasoning on GCD change were spot on.

[tru]

False equivalency. WW, Feral, and Aff Lock put in more work than Fire Mage, so by your logic they should be way above Fire Mage, which they aren’t. I’m assuming you are also comparing melee to rdps? Again, doesn’t work. There have also been tiers where rdps SV, Feral, and WW have been better than middle of the pack.
So, your argument is literally working against you right now.
Bottom line is any time BM actually plays well people flip out about them being 100% mobile and act like it’s so unfair, yet when BM is dogshit or even just slightly behind others people don’t give a rats ass. Let me guess, it’s because people want to use the excuse of equals out, it then where’s the equality to others? As per your own opening line, why aren’t harder specs rewarded more? Go ahead, I’ll wait for the justification thru mental gymnastics. You didn’t even address the main point, let alone all of them, except locking onto 1 specific part about fire mages to something you could make a statement about. This meant you glossed over every single main point while picking a side topic.

On that notion tho Blizz themselves said before when they actually cared about talent trees that a active ability should be more rewarding than a passive on the same row. Which clearly isnt the case. But think back to Glad Wars with over 100 APM... it worked yea it was far from being a top contender tho. But should a 40 APM assas rogue still do more damage? It all comes down to balance and the niche something is supposed to fill.

ArP stacked MM was the most fun ive ever had on a hunter. So many things i HATED about changes over the years, dont even get me started on sidewinders. The last thing that comes to mind is hunters mark and a gcd. To each their own.

[Qstall]

lol this thread is ridiculous

[shade3891]

1) Either get it of the GCD so we can macro it and forget about it. (stupid solution imo)
2) Have it apply to the last target that got hit by auto shot. (stupid solution imo)
3) Make it a cooldown: Increase the range of all your abilities by 15y and reduce the focus cost of your abilities against the marked target by 75% for 12 seconds. (1.5min CD)
4) remove the skill

[Queen of Hamsters]

its always amusing to me to see this,when they pruned abilities people cried,when they add em back people cry,it just shows that blizz can never please even half the playerbase,and that people will always find something to complain about,btw im not saying your wrong or right,just an observation

Well, I was not one of those people. I've never been on the pruning whinge-train, I've been on the shitty-class-design-whinge-train. :3
And simply unpruning won't a fun class make. Playing whack-a-mole might stimulate some people, I prefer some synergy and engaging gameplay.

[Eosia]

Why should it matter if it is on the GCD? Where it will actually count, in dungeons/raids chances are you are not going to be moving it around so much. And using it does not cause aggro so it can be applied before the pull. It should not be on the GCD I agree but it could be if they reduce the Hunter GCD to match the Rogue/Feral/Monk GCD.

It was removed and "baked in" when they started pruning in Cata I want to say. I'm fine with it returning but it can also stay baked in. I would rather more active abilities be brought back. I want Aim Shot to be how it was in Wrath. I want Explosive Shot back how it was in MoP/WoD. I would like to see Expose Weakness return as a talent. Stings returning would be cool along with Wrath Chimera Shot. Having Readiness back would be cool. Black Arrow from Wrath would be cool too.

I want MM to be able to move again.

[Fetacheese]

I'm not a big fan of it. It doesn't feel like it adds damage - I only notice it when I have to switch targets and don't have it applied.

[Adam Jensen]

I like how after how many pages, people are still unable to properly elaborate why a debuff with 100% uptime and a gcd is somehow better than having that damage baked in to your abilities, thus not needing the garbage gcd.

Because more abilities on your bar proves classic > retail . . . or something

[Acidbaron]

I mean by that logic, we might as well bring bullets and arrows back.

Not sure if this will survive the testing phase. Doesn't seem to be a good argument for it currently.

[Kehego]

Nice hyperbole bro, great arguments.

He didn't provide an actual answer in his rant, so I just overlooked it

- - - Updated - - -

Let's just bake every spell into a single ability, after all, why just not have everything baked in then. What is the point of cds, timers, resourses etc.

GCD is an ok tradeoff for an flavoursome, fitting ability which gives a flat 5% dmg increase and breaks stealth.

But who am i talking to anyway, this is the same community who screeched that BfA Marksman is garbage because they have to stand still 20% of the time to cast an ability called AIMED shot and who's whole ''make hunters great again'' mantra is just a cover for ''give me everything instant and on the move''.

People really need to stop parroting this idea that GCD makes or breaks class design. It was prevalent in more than a half of this game lifespan. Game will never, NEVER go back to that shitshow of a spammy clusterfuck that was MoP class design. Only on MMO champ is the expansion with such button bloat, absurd cchains, one shot macros, instant spells and straight overpowered specs (like whole of warlock class) considered a pinnacle of class design.

Blizzard reasoning on GCD change were spot on.

Now that you got your rant out, you have an actual point? I don't disagree with 90% of the gcd changes, but hunter's mark is, has been, and will always be a nonsense ability lost in time.

Hunter's mark was "good" for rogues in warsong gulch and making the worst geared hunter in the raid put it on so you didn't have to. Dassit.

[wildcardNS]

Man, having to press my buttons to do DPS is so 2007. Blizzard should just give me the debuff automatically.

I wouldn’t bother debating these people man. You’ll notice most MMO-C forum posters absolutely despise the old days of WoW.

As true as this is, we all have a vested interest in retail succeeding. The current design philosophy I believe reduces how successful the game can be.

I'm always mindblown by these arguments that the old talent style isn't "fun" or were "fake choices," it's like these people have never played any other RPG but post-Cata WoW. One of the greatest RPGs in the last decade was Witcher 3. Guess what it had? Go ahead, go look, I'll wait.

but hunter's mark is, has been, and will always be a nonsense ability lost in time.

Lost in time? This argument makes no sense.

[Eapoe]

Man, having to press my buttons to do DPS is so 2007. Blizzard should just give me the debuff automatically.



As true as this is, we all have a vested interest in retail succeeding. The current design philosophy I believe reduces how successful the game can be.

I'm always mindblown by these arguments that the old talent style isn't "fun" or were "fake choices," it's like these people have never played any other RPG but post-Cata WoW. One of the greatest RPGs in the last decade was Witcher 3. Guess what it had? Go ahead, go look, I'll wait.



Lost in time? This argument makes no sense.

It’s not really a button to dps though. It’s a button to do more dps, just like AotW and BW. The issue is players (not all) don’t want to press multiple buttons getting ready to do something instead of being able to just do it.
Does The Witcher not have cookie cutter builds, like everything else? If you spread talents around in The Witcher willie nillie do you actually have a great character or just something so-so that can finish the game?
As I stated a ways back, single player games with talent trees are still usually able to be completed by making completely bonehead choices and still not have as much of a problem. They are also very easy to restart if you make a bad character build that you then struggle with later. WoW talents are not permanent and easily changed. I’d also love to see a 40 man raid with people who just talent themselves however they want. Those are probably the same guilds that are struggling with the 2nd boss in BWL while still trying to prepare for ZG, or the ones getting stomped in BGs.
I will never agree with talent point systems in an ongoing game like WoW. Mainly because one of these things happen: either we continue getting points and fill every point in, meaning no meaningful choice exists that people love to talk about. The other is Blizz keeps adding talents, which then just continues cookie cutter builds and risk button bloat or no fun points of “gain 1% Crit with X ability.” Or Blizzard continues to squish talent points down so you are stuck with what you already have anyways.
Maybe instead of pointing out single player games, find some successful mmorpgs that use a talent free system like that of Classic WoW and see how many there actually are that have viable trees for however you want to build.

[trapmaster]

I don't want it in Shadowlands. It's boring and using a gcd on it hurts my stomach everytime.

i agreed, i kinda wish those marks are passive auto marked on target you are hitting even you multi shot and it's auto marked till death expect for pvp *only one mark*

[Galaar]

Pro of hunter's mark is on a raid boss fight it's a nice damage buff. However, you could just bake the 5% buff into the spec. Or, instead of it being a GCD ability either take it off GCD (so target switching add priority doesn't feel punishing) or make some of our abilities place it on the target like we had with vulnerability in Legion.

[Ollith]

Hunter's mark is great for pvp. At a 100 yard range you can cast it on a stealth class before they notice which gives you a big advantage. Bgs/ Arenas/ World pvp all benefit the hunter for having an ability that lets you see stealth targets. You will almost always get the opener unless they waste Vanish, which again will give you a big advantage.

I can see why for pve it's not as useful but I don't think that was the intention of it being brought back as baseline. A class should have tools for both pve and pvp and be viewed in that light as well.

[xnickybx]

Ya'll don't macro it to /petattack?

Well really you macro pet attack to hunter's mark, so while it's effective for using pet attack, it does nothing to help with hunter's mark being a boring button on gcd. Plus I find it much easier to just macro smack/bite/etc to most of your damage abilities, not only does it get your pet attacking, itll sometimes force your pet to use smack/bite/etc a little earlier than when it would have done so on its own.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn’t bother debating these people man. You’ll notice most MMO-C forum posters absolutely despise the old days of WoW. You can see they didn’t even play during them and they all came after Cataclysm or MoP. So to them those versions prior to MoP have nothing good at all. Luckily for us the sub numbers kind of proved the type of game the majority liked since numbers constantly rose more and more year after year until the game had changed far too much and it was time for the drop off the cliff. Blizzard are realizing now though that they need to start catering a little more towards us. Look what they recently said, how the Asian players love classic so much and that type of gameplay. That combined with how every company caters to China now means were likely to keep seeing the type of game we like come back over time.


PS: Since I’ll be leaving after I post this as anytime I make a comment that is remotely positive about the older versions of WoW I get 20 negative responses let me just add one more thing. Don’t bother debating the hamster person. I’ve only ever put one person on ignore in my decade plus time on this website and it was that person for being... “special” if you catch my meaning. That person spends I think at the very least two hours every single day on here raging against classic. It seems to take it as an insult that people are playing classic so it spends all its time trying to bring everyone down into the muck.

Lol you talk about someone spending all their time on this website and then speak as though you've analyzed every post on here. Classic projection, pun intended.

[Mardux]

If you want to talk sub numbers, the sub numbers are on the side of player agency, which includes things like having to press a button that increases your DPS. Let's not pretend retail is devoid of toxicity when anonymity in queues is 90% of the gameplay. Want to know how to reduce perceived toxic encounters? Make sure your customers don't have to have any encounters.

I will keep playing classic. I will level the skills, place the talents, press the buttons, all to get the maximum out of my character. I will enjoy doing so because each step is one more box checked to that optimum build. That progression, that achievement, feels meaningful to me.

+1 for admitting that all of that is subjective and based on your feelings. Now if we could work on allowing retail players to have feelings of their own. Baby steps I guess.