Is food at restaurants really generally cheaper than in Europe?

[AeneasBK]

It's not me that's having problems to keep up. Saying it's common for people to make 10k per month or 80k per year isn't mutually exclusive. Both can be common. You're acting like they're mutually exclusive statements when they aren't.

Okay hun .

[Deathknightish]

In a number of European countries, the dominant business model is for main dishes to be relatively cheap, as in there's very little markup compared to the price of ingredients and manpower, the higher margins being chiefly on drinks (I'm talking non alcoholic ones even), as well as desserts and sides.

I've seen that in other countries it is not the same, as while travelling I was many times surprised at the low cost of drinks. Have you compared prices for drinks between Europe and the US?

Otherwise my country's prices are a bad reference as $20 is considered normal for a dish, and $15 cheap (the likes of Doner Kebab or Big Mac menu being barely on the $10 mark (we might still top the Big Mac Index)).

That I haven't, as I always drink either soda or milk with my meals. If I go for a beer or so, it's always a thing of it's own.

Edit: Didn't notice you mentioned even non-alcoholic ones. I honestly don't remember the price for drinks in the U.S, but in Sweden I pay like 3 dollars for a soda.

[Puupi]

And followed it up with the justification that 80k/year was common in those cities.

I'll let you work it out from here, it was a throwaway pisstake and if you can't keep up thats not a problem.

If 80k is average, anything from 40k to 120k can be considered common, following a standard gaussian curvature.

But I guess this is just one of those things you don't need to know about.

[AeneasBK]

following a standard gaussian curvature.

Well thank goodness wages do that, one only has to look at how the median and the average are the sam_ oh no wait. Looks like it's not normal distribution, that wasn't immediately obvious to assume.

Looks like it is less common to be above average than below, how could that be?

This is dull; by all means maintain that $10k/mo is "common" in NY, because 80k a year is the average.

[Mihalik]

I live in Madrid. Pretty expensive city.

There's a common lunch menu custom here, which is basically a 3 course meal+a drink which can be soda, beer, wine whatever and sometimes a coffee on top of it (people here have a coffee after lunch).

It usually ranges between 12 to 17 euro depending on location and restaurant, if it's gonna be steak or seafood it's usually in the 15 to 17 range.

Something I would call a reasonably priced dinner is around 25 euro per person.

It's important tho to note that eating out in the US and eating out in Spain are a bit different. Portion sizes are different with smaller portions in Spain but with more courses.

Then there are tapas which are again a different experience. Tapas can go for anything from 2 to 5 euro each (sometimes served free with the purchase of things like wine or beer). They are individually quite small but the idea is to have several small servings of various different things.

It's very very rare in Europe for your portions to be so large for you to need a doggy bag and if you do you typically over ordered. I can never finish meals in the US anymore and I feel like part of what I'm paying for is either waste or microwaved leftovers for next day.

I would say prices in Madrid are comparable to NYC or LA, but you actually get a more varied but smaller meal. And honest to God, the fact that you get a smaller meal IS NOT A BAD THING FOR FUCK SAKE, there's no reason for your lunch or dinner to be fucking 2600 to 4000 calories, as it is fairly typical in the US. I would say an average Spanish lunch or dinner is around 1200 to 1600 calories, which is beyond reasonable.

Of course if you want you can get your 12 euro 3000 calorie burger and fries too if you want, but that's a bit silly.

And it's similar across much of Europe, the only places in Europe where I felt I was overpaying for food was London, Ireland (and holy fuck I was overpaying for booze) and Paris.

[Gaidax]

From my experience European restaurants are generally cheaper for the quality. During my Eurotrip several years ago, I really had a lot of good experiences with that for a fair price - I know that at home to get same level of quality from your standard mid-tier and even entry-tier restaurants - I'd have to pay roughly 1.5x.

EXCEPT for UK, ma boi, their prices are through the roof and hotels are as shit as in Japan - super small rooms for the prices they command. Japan's food is dirt cheap though, but so is China, while China's hotels are very roomy for similar price.

So overall if one would like to travel a bit - I'd say, my first recommendation is Shanghai, then Eurotrip - Spain in particular high points (do skip UK though, except for amazing Carrot Cake from a coffee shop under London Eye it was a somewhat boring and expensive experience) OR Japan, especially if you are a weeb-lite like me - Akihabara was smaller than I imagined, but Maid Cafes are a thing, especially if you look for more quality experience like Cure Maid which was great and classy and not that McDonald's of Maid Cafes - Maidreamin'.

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I live in Madrid. Pretty expensive city.

In my case I found Madrid to be OK, even on cheap side prices-wise. But we're getting ripped off hard where I live, genuinely insane prices.



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BTW, for OP, best way is to use some site that gathers the data. It's really different experience for many there.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

[Coolthulhu]

I'd say yes, with a few exceptions. Japan for instance - sure, cheap and good food everywhere. But it's one thing if you hit an izakaya or some ramen or kare raisu chain, another entirely if you go for high-end kaiseki, don't be surprised if the bill is ¥30 to 50k (which to be fair is no higher than Michelin-starred restaurants in Europe). The US feel a lot cheaper, even with the tip included, if you're somewhere in the middle of nowhere. In NYC/Seattle and the like, I've never noticed a significant different from big European cities (except for London, I've always found London to be awfully expensive food-wise, and with a bad price:quality ratio at that).

Otherwise my country's prices are a bad reference as $20 is considered normal for a dish, and $15 cheap (the likes of Doner Kebab or Big Mac menu being barely on the $10 mark (we might still top the Big Mac Index)).

In which Canton is that? I don't know about kebab or big mac because I'm not a fan of either, but I'm used to dishes ranging from $20 to $50 (a good fillet with sides for instance) in GR. Sure, I can as eat a full meal (drinks included) for ~$20 in a ski-trail Imbiss, but I was thinking proper restaurants.

As to drinks, well, I've very rarely been able to find good wines and/or beers in the US outside of very fancy venues (whereas you can find the good stuff in most restaurants around these parts without having to go search for Michelin starred ones), so I suppose that explains the different pricing.

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I live in Madrid. Pretty expensive city.

[...]

Something I would call a reasonably priced dinner is around 25 euro per person.

25 EUR for an entire dinner and you consider Madrid expensive? Holy Moly.

[Mihalik]

25 EUR for an entire dinner and you consider Madrid expensive? Holy Moly.

It can be, trust me. Also that's what I said was a reasonably priced dinner at a reasonably priced join with no drinks included. If you wanna go a bit higher end it goes up pretty fast.

Thing about Spain is that normally people eat out very very often, so going for dinner isn't something you do once a week but almost daily (and people dine very late, dinner service starts around 21:00) so the pricing is more in line with lunch prices although with the difference of not having lunch menus.

[Coolthulhu]

It can be, trust me. Also that's what I said was a reasonably priced dinner at a reasonably priced join with no drinks included. If you wanna go a bit higher end it goes up pretty fast.

Thing about Spain is that normally people eat out very very often, so going for dinner isn't something you do once a week but almost daily (and people dine very late, dinner service starts around 21:00) so the pricing is more in line with lunch prices although with the difference of not having lunch menus.

I hadn't considered that, makes much more sense now. Dining out daily isn't something people can afford to do here nor where I'm from (drastically different contexts, big international city vs. tiny secluded mountain town) - unless they're loaded or settle for shitty junk food chains that is.

[Kathandira]

New York, Miami/Orlando, San Francisco, Santa Barbara and Los Angeles,

Are you comparing US major cities to European major cities?

In New Jersey, a burger at a restaurant (not fast food) could cost between $6 - $12 pending on how up scale the place is. In NY City it could cost between $10 - $25 pending on how up scale the place is.

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Remember that having a 10k monthly income (or more) is common in the US, and they are not paying 50% income tax on it.

Buying a 10 dollar meal is cheap then.

$10,000 a month is $62/hr. That is absolutely not common. That would be upper middle class in places with higher salary rates.

I see further in the thread, this was moved down to $80k/yr as average. That is $42/hr. That is a bit more common in high income areas, at least as a household income and in some cases an individual income.

[Rathwell]

Remember that having a 10k monthly income (or more) is common in the US, and they are not paying 50% income tax on it.

Buying a 10 dollar meal is cheap then.

Only 7% of Americans make that much money. 70% of employed Americans make less than $50,000 a year (~$4166 a month)

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

In which Canton is that? I don't know about kebab or big mac because I'm not a fan of either, but I'm used to dishes ranging from $20 to $50 (a good fillet with sides for instance) in GR. Sure, I can as eat a full meal (drinks included) for ~$20 in a ski-trail Imbiss, but I was thinking proper restaurants.

As to drinks, well, I've very rarely been able to find good wines and/or beers in the US outside of very fancy venues (whereas you can find the good stuff in most restaurants around these parts without having to go search for Michelin starred ones), so I suppose that explains the different pricing.

I am talking for a big chunk of Western Switzerland, chiefly the Lemanic area, as I live in Lausanne but relatively often have professional appointments as far as Geneva, Neuchâtel, Fribourg and Sion, with as many opportunities for eating out at lunch, bot in the city and in the countryside.

If we're talking about proper restaurants yes the prices are more in the 20 to 50 range, but it can be a little under that if you go for the lunch specials. A nice piece of meat will indeed be more past 40 in most places (outside of potential lunch specials). In a nice restaurant, a full course with wines can quickly reach the 100 mark I'd say.

Relatively "simple" foods in proper restaurants is nowadays drifting towards the 25 mark : talking about usual local fares, pasta, "real" pizzas, "gourmet" burgers and the ubiquitous cheese fondue.

In simpler, worker catering, restaurants it is possible to have a proper dish for under 20, sometimes with a salad. The 20 to under 10 range itself is the realm of Fast-Food, be it a Self-type cafeteria, Kebab or cheap take-out pizza places.

Beverage prices vary a bit depending on how central the place is located, but nowadays a standard drink is around 5, be it a mineral, soft, beer or wine (I've seen cases where the beer was cheaper than the soft or bottled water). In cheaper places it might be around 4, but of course specialty beers, particular wines and local juices can quickly get more pricey. Even take-outs will easily charge you 4 for a bottle taken out of the fridge.

We often cross the border to visit family in neighboring France and Germany, and the food over there is much cheaper. The exception of course was Paris, which was very expensive, much more than Tokyo for example (and in particular for the beverages).

[xenogear3]

Someone who makes $20k a year is classified as "middle class".

The makeup is mainly from drink, french fried and cake.
The burger and main dish may not have makeup.
It depends on the business model.

[Mayhem]

BTW, for OP, best way is to use some site that gathers the data. It's really different experience for many there.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

Ha, what a fun website, why the hell is McDonalds so much cheaper in Vienna? I mean, it's cheaper than in Madrid, while having 22% more purchasing power.

[Shadowferal]

$10k a month is common? Excuse me?

Took the words I was already typing.

[Queen of Hamsters]

A 2-person lunch at a low-rated place in Stockholm, can set you back 150 euro, and that's seen as "fair"... In my city (Umeå), I can eat for 30 euro at a VERY nice restaurant and yes, there's no tipping required.

I've always been of the impression that even with tipping culture, the US has lower prices than comparable restaurants in the big cities here in Sweden.

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Someone who makes $20k a year is classified as "middle class".

The makeup is mainly from drink, french fried and cake.
The burger and main dish may not have makeup.
It depends on the business model.

Was not aware of that difference... I'll be making 23k EURO/year in a couple of months when I go up to full-time, and I'll still be considered lower-class scum... o.O

[Coolthulhu]

I am talking for a big chunk of Western Switzerland, chiefly the Lemanic area, as I live in Lausanne but relatively often have professional appointments as far as Geneva, Neuchâtel, Fribourg and Sion, with as many opportunities for eating out at lunch, bot in the city and in the countryside.

If we're talking about proper restaurants yes the prices are more in the 20 to 50 range, but it can be a little under that if you go for the lunch specials. A nice piece of meat will indeed be more past 40 in most places (outside of potential lunch specials). In a nice restaurant, a full course with wines can quickly reach the 100 mark I'd say.

Relatively "simple" foods in proper restaurants is nowadays drifting towards the 25 mark : talking about usual local fares, pasta, "real" pizzas, "gourmet" burgers and the ubiquitous cheese fondue.

In simpler, worker catering, restaurants it is possible to have a proper dish for under 20, sometimes with a salad. The 20 to under 10 range itself is the realm of Fast-Food, be it a Self-type cafeteria, Kebab or cheap take-out pizza places.

Beverage prices vary a bit depending on how central the place is located, but nowadays a standard drink is around 5, be it a mineral, soft, beer or wine (I've seen cases where the beer was cheaper than the soft or bottled water). In cheaper places it might be around 4, but of course specialty beers, particular wines and local juices can quickly get more pricey. Even take-outs will easily charge you 4 for a bottle taken out of the fridge.

We often cross the border to visit family in neighboring France and Germany, and the food over there is much cheaper. The exception of course was Paris, which was very expensive, much more than Tokyo for example (and in particular for the beverages).

I'm on the very opposite side, never really been more to the West of Zürich to the North and Locarno to the South, save for a school trip in Geneva, but yeah, it adds up when you put it like that. I don't really know about France because I hate the place (and the food), but yeah food is generally quite cheaper in Southern Germany (but not in Austria nor Italy, at least not in Tyrol/Südtirol, and anything on either side the Lake Maggiore (unless you know how to avoid the omnipresent tourist traps at least). Around those parts specialty beers are more on the 6-8 range, wines... well wines can go from 5 per 750 ml bottle or 8-10 per glass. Never had to worry about bottled water because I'm a big fan of the tap, tastes better than bottled water up there.

No idea about Paris, only been there a couple of times for work and never stayed more than strictly necessary, so I didn't pay much attention to the prices, but yeah food in Tokyo (whole of Japan, really) is generally cheap unless you go for the very fancy stuff, perhaps the cheapest in the North of the World, especially when taking the quality/price ratio into consideration. It's not the only thing that's very cheap there either, everyday commodities are cheaper too. What's pricey there is space.

Someone who makes $20k a year is classified as "middle class".

Where?

[Shadowferal]

Was not aware of that difference... I'll be making 23k EURO/year in a couple of months when I go up to full-time, and I'll still be considered lower-class scum... o.O

Middle class wages are $40,500 up to $122,000.
$20k...is abyssmal.

[Acidbaron]

Middle class wages are $40,500 up to $122,000.
$20k...is abyssmal.

Depending on what nation you are in you could have "free" healthcare. Belgium has an income tax of 55% i believe but our health care is "free".

[Queen of Hamsters]

Middle class wages are $40,500 up to $122,000.
$20k...is abyssmal.

I'd imagine so in the US, sounds like very little to live on over there.

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Depending on what nation you are in you could have "free" healthcare. Belgium has an income tax of 55% i believe but our health care is "free".

Yep, 20k/year where I live goes a long way, lets you own a house and save and consume. No worries about healthcare costs etc.

In a couple years I'll have completed an education that lets me further increase the income by 10k/year. And that education is basically free, I'll have to pay for travel to and from the locale, and my lunch... <.<
Then I'll be considered middle-class, I think? Not sure, not that it matters much.