Void Elf Paladin and Zandalari Warlock

[FlubberPuddy]

Alliance still needs another druid race.

Zandalari can sit out. They can pretty much be anything. They can handle not being locks.

Alliance also needs about 2-3 more Paladin races to match how many Shaman options there are on Horde. It's ridiculous frankly.

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Also, Alliance already have somewhat broad selection of paladin races - humans, two kinds of dwarves, two kinds of draenei. I would rather see another shaman or druid race tbh.

What? How is that broad?

Do you know that the Horde has more Shaman options AND an actual broader variety of them? 2Orcs, 2Trolls, 2Tauren, 1Goblin, 1Vulpera

8 Shamans to the iconic Shaman faction yet only 5 Paladins to the iconic Paladin faction? with essentially 3 options (if you don't like dwarves/draenei, another option does nothing).

[LordVargK]

First of all, I am sorry but Paladins - those Holy Light junkies using Void? That's sacrilege really (insert raging Imperius gif here). At most one could stretch it to "well there were some paladins that decided to study Void to better know their mortal enemy", but that's about it and it's a massive stretch considering the aim of Umbric's group which was basically harnessing the Void to use it for the glory of Belves to begin with. Like, maybe you could say that a bunch of paladins decided to join just to protect their fellow brethren from the void if it would pop and got caught in the blast. That's as far as it goes imo.

Secondly - void powers are reflected in game with your racials. Naturally if we'd go lore pure and what actually is going on - I bet said hunters and warriors can do more than just become emo+ shade once per minute and have blink-lite, after all we seen in BFA intro how whole bunch of Velves just ported in full Protoss style into the Undercity.

It's just that game mechanics can go so far there, because balance is a thing and they aren't really going to reskin abilities for however many classes Velves can use to make them more voidy and such.

There are already void (dark) Naaru. If a manifestation of the light can become void infused, then I don't see why some very powerhungry paladins should not be able to dabble in the dark side.

[Gaidax]

There are already void (dark) Naaru. If a manifestation of the light can become void infused, then I don't see why some very powerhungry paladins should not be able to dabble in the dark side.

They won't be paladins anymore though, just like said Dark Naaru is not channeling light anymore.

[matrix123mko]

They won't be paladins anymore though, just like said Dark Naaru is not channeling light anymore.

Sadly, we don't have void knights yet.

[LordVargK]

They won't be paladins anymore though, just like said Dark Naaru is not channeling light anymore.

Not necessarily. Is it impossible to use both light and void powers at the same time? Did we not do that at the end of Legion to empower our Artifacts via the crucible? Is that not canon? That way a paladin can still call upon the light, while also strengthen his abilities by using the void (like you described for every other voidelf class). That's the whole point about Voidelfs: They don't let the void consume them and only use some void magic to enhance their existing abilities. And the paladins ability to hurt his enemies can certainly be improved by the void.

[FossilFree]

Not necessarily. Is it impossible to use both light and void powers at the same time? Did we not do that at the end of Legion to empower our Artifacts via the crucible? Is that not canon? That way a paladin can still call upon the light, while also strengthen his abilities by using the void (like you described for every other voidelf class). That's the whole point about Voidelfs: They don't let the void consume them and only use some void magic to enhance their existing abilities. And the paladins ability to hurt his enemies can certainly be improved by the void.

It's not impossible at all. Paladins with the ability to use both holy and void at the same time already exist in the lore, they are members of the Twilight's Hammer and use twilight magic (which is holy/shadow combined).

Twilight Vindicator

I see no reason why there couldn't be a shadow order of void paladins opposite the holy order of light paladins, just like how priests can focus on either side of the spectrum it is illogical to say that picking up a sword and shield and donning heavy armor suddenly makes the shadow choice impossible.

There is currently no lore of this shadow order, true. But anything can be written moving forward, and it would be a great lore addition to Void Elves to make up for the lack of lore in general. It could come alongside a rebuilt settlement in Telogrus Rift, with a large void cathedral and accompanying shadow order of Void Knights. I could also see a similar shadow order being retconned into the game for Forsaken Void Knights.

Class skins would make all of this possible by just changing the animations, spell names, and icons for Void Knight paladins to shadowy/voidy effects. It's no different than adding green fire to warlocks as an option.

[Swnem]

Because some insight is a good thing to have. Blizzard is still not at the stage to give all classes to all races, so there is lore reason for sure to why a specific class is simply not a thing for a specific race right now and that reason is solid in case of Void Elf Paladins.

On the other hand, when it comes to priests - it's a case where Void Elf priests are valid in lore and them still being able to be Holy is simply a case of them having that spec - i.e. game mechanics.

I don't think it's a hard concept really.

Oh the concept isn't hard, it's just flawed.
It's called cherry picking. It's lore when it's convenient and it's gameplay when it's not.

What about disc priests then? Are they not lore as well? They cast holy and void spells, including penance wich has both.
I guess they are not convenient either.

[Cronovey]

I don't see the Zandalari, proud as they are, accepting monk teachings after being defeated during the war. I could be wrong sure, but it seems kind of a stretch

Oh don't get me wrong, it's definitely not a great explanation. I'm just saying that the premise exists for them to have monks probably before any other race in the game besides Pandaren. A handful of Zandalari trolls after losing a war and feeling abandoned by their country after potentially being stranded on Pandaria making peace and learning their ways especially when the Pandaren wild gods are so similar to the loa isn't a very big stretch compared to say, Undead being able to find that inner peace and mastery of self.

[KayRule]

Void Elves' cultures don't support Paladins

Same for Zandalar and Warlocks

Zandalari Warlocks have existed since Vanilla

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demoniac

[Budong]

They really should do away with class/race restrictions, the only people who'd be upset are those that hold onto tradition for the sake of tradition.

Even DnD has moved past race/class restrictions in this day and age.

True. At this stage of WoW's life removing restrictions instead of maintaining them should be a priority for subscriber retention and addition. Same for transmog. Artificial barriers no longer serve a relevant function.

Use the class skin idea to smooth away any lore implications and we're set.

[Traveler Voltin]

Zandalari Warlocks have existed since Vanilla

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demoniac

thats a demon hunter not a warlock

[Vaedan]

Alliance also needs about 2-3 more Paladin races to match how many Shaman options there are on Horde. It's ridiculous frankly.

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What? How is that broad?

Do you know that the Horde has more Shaman options AND an actual broader variety of them? 2Orcs, 2Trolls, 2Tauren, 1Goblin, 1Vulpera

8 Shamans to the iconic Shaman faction yet only 5 Paladins to the iconic Paladin faction? with essentially 3 options (if you don't like dwarves/draenei, another option does nothing).

I don't think there has to be some kind of equity in this. We could easily end up in argument wars like "Alliance have more Mage and Rogue option" or "Alliance have more shaman options than Horde paladin options..." which can be only be fixed by lifting race/class restrictions for good.

You know, if there is a trouble in having 5 paladin races on the Alliance, they can easily add paladin class to other race than void elves without creating much additional lore for that. Like Night Elves paladins, which have pretty nicely paved way with one priestess of Elune actually becoming paladin in Legion and Tyrande herself transformed into a weapon of vengeance and retribution (wielding a melee 2H weapon and wearing armor resembling plate...), or Kul Tiran paladins, which I was surprised are missing, since you know, they are just humans and while they were shown to have great devotion to the sea, some of them choose to follow the path of Light...

As I said, I would be hyped for ren'dorei void knights, if class skins ever happens. For pure paladins, night elves and kul tirans are more interesting option to be honest.

[Kayze]

Lets get rid of any immersion and finally make it a shameless farming simulator instead.

It'll help for when WoW becomes a mobile game.

[FlubberPuddy]

I don't think there has to be some kind of equity in this. We could easily end up in argument wars like "Alliance have more Mage and Rogue option" or "Alliance have more shaman options than Horde paladin options..." which can be only be fixed by lifting race/class restrictions for good.

You know, if there is a trouble in having 5 paladin races on the Alliance, they can easily add paladin class to other race than void elves without creating much additional lore for that. Like Night Elves paladins, which have pretty nicely paved way with one priestess of Elune actually becoming paladin in Legion and Tyrande herself transformed into a weapon of vengeance and retribution (wielding a melee 2H weapon and wearing armor resembling plate...), or Kul Tiran paladins, which I was surprised are missing, since you know, they are just humans and while they were shown to have great devotion to the sea, some of them choose to follow the path of Light...

As I said, I would be hyped for ren'dorei void knights, if class skins ever happens. For pure paladins, night elves and kul tirans are more interesting option to be honest.

It's not really about an 'arms race' of equitable classes it's more in the context of the very limited classes (paladin/shaman/druid) and that alliance is in further need of more paladin options before shaman or druid.

And as much as we don't want it to be about "ok we need to balance classes between factions" that's how Blizzard is dealing with it, there is an equal amount of total classes available to both Alliance and Horde.

It's just when you take into account the limited classes (Paladin/Druid/Shaman), the Alliance has lesser druids and shamans, and while it has more paladins it's not by much + the options aren't broad. Contrasted with broader options among Horde side, hell even with 3 Paladin options on Horde they're all unique (it's not simply another existing race like Draenei to LF Draenei).

And yeah I wouldn't mind at all Night Elves and Kul'Tiran getting those options, it was just strange to me that you commented more druid/shaman options would be needed over Paladins.

As an iconic class for Alliance, it's actually really weird how few Paladin options there actually are on Alliance side. Compared to Shaman iconic class on Horde side.

[A Chozo]

Zandalari Warlocks have existed since Vanilla

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demoniac

That's many things, especially a Demon Hunter, but it's not a Warlock.
Every Zandalari Warlock has been found as an exile in Vol'dun, which means it's a forbidden pratice - which makes sense, since it's sacrificial magic and the Loa are probably afraid of being turned on and used as fuel, like Rezan, Shadra and the Drakkari Loa were.

[Vaedan]

It's not really about an 'arms race' of equitable classes it's more in the context of the very limited classes (paladin/shaman/druid) and that alliance is in further need of more paladin options before shaman or druid.

And as much as we don't want it to be about "ok we need to balance classes between factions" that's how Blizzard is dealing with it, there is an equal amount of total classes available to both Alliance and Horde.

It's just when you take into account the limited classes (Paladin/Druid/Shaman), the Alliance has lesser druids and shamans, and while it has more paladins it's not by much + the options aren't broad. Contrasted with broader options among Horde side, hell even with 3 Paladin options on Horde they're all unique (it's not simply another existing race like Draenei to LF Draenei).

And yeah I wouldn't mind at all Night Elves and Kul'Tiran getting those options, it was just strange to me that you commented more druid/shaman options would be needed over Paladins.

As an iconic class for Alliance, it's actually really weird how few Paladin options there actually are on Alliance side. Compared to Shaman iconic class on Horde side.

I will elaborate my PoV a little.

When we are talking about classes, there are gameplay classes and lore classes. In some cases, these two categories match, for example Human Paladin matches original Silver Hand paladin archetype. There are lore classes which can be represented to some degree with gameplay classes without notable differences between the two, for example Draenei Paladin as manifestation of Draenei Vindicators. In fact, draenei didn't came to be paladins as humans, they are not essentially the same thing, but they are so close that you can impersonate Vindicator by paladin and leave it as it is, without much other questions. Then there are lore classes which can be represented by gameplay classes, but at the cost of some characteristics of that class, for example Zandalari Paladins as Zandalari Prelates. We all know that Zandalari draws their power from loa, so their source of power is different to humans, draenei, elves. Zandalari Prelates are their own thing, but their uniqueness is not supported by paladin class.

Now, back to the topic. Alliance represents faction of iconic paladins, as said. Alliance gave birth to Silver Hand and when we look at paladin class, it's gameplay and visuals have been modeled around it. For that matter, Alliance races shows that they came from this origin and I don't think there is anything more you can add to reinforce this. Alliance have also access to draenei and lightforged draenei paladins, which opens them an option of more exotic paladins, which fits in the theme of the class pretty well. To sum up, Alliance have access to standard archetypal paladins and also have option of some more outlandish ones.
If you look at the Horde, you can see that all their paladin races didn't have their origins in Silver Hand, which was chosen to be made as an archetype of gameplay paladin class. Blood elves started as Blood Knights, which drained Light from Naaru, basicly abusing the Light for their own needs. Tauren paladins are Sun Druids who took more warlike approach of their teachings. Zandalari paladins are chosen of Loa of Kings and they draw their power from it. We can see that all of them does not match lore and gameplay class. It feels weird to have tauren or zandalari paladin throwing hammers, reciting from holy librams while casting heals, etc. Horde has pretty great access to more exotic paladins, but they are pretty limited when it comes to good oldfashioned Silver Hand paladins. I admit that Blood Elves evolved to fill that role in the Horde lately and the game shown us that even blood elves joined paladin factions.

I'm not sure if I explained myself better, but all those things I just wrote are my personal opinions and you are free to disagree. For me, the list of Alliance paladins fullfils what I expect from the class on that faction, and while I won't deny that there could be more options to be had, I am OK with the way it is now.

On the other hand, when it comes to let's say druids, alliance side is centered mostly around cenarian druidism with only kul tirans displaying anything different, while Horde have cenarian druidism (both tauren races), dinomancy (zandalari) and loa worship (darkspear).

[Alanar]

Well, if Blizzard will ever want to add Void Elf paladins, they will find a way. There are possible loops. We all know that light and void are somewhat connected

We can say or use that argument with anything.. doesnt mske it very strong. Sure if blizzards wants they can make silvermoon a floating city, doesnt mean its a good idea.

They are connected in a way they need to eachother to excist. Thats it. They are not forces who work together in the way you think. Its more like + and - or jing and yang.

Holy priests for that matter excist because of gameplay reasons, mind you this is not something you can use as argument to make void elf paladins make sense.Paladins are all about the light, its a pure holy class..in a normal world we wouldnt even be talking about this, but now some people started pushing it, now we know void elves get fair skin option.

It still doesnt make sense and I am shocked this need explanation.

[THEORACLE64]

Void Elves are finally able to become high elves, elves also have a connection to light, like Paladins
-> void elf paladin needs to happen if and dark iron paladins are a thing already

Zandalari need to be warlocks and the scales are evened out.

Appearance means shit. You can still be a "void elf" without looking like one i.e. Alleria. They've still given themselves to the void, thus being Paladins would be dumb.

[FlubberPuddy]

I will elaborate my PoV a little.

When we are talking about classes, there are gameplay classes and lore classes. In some cases, these two categories match, for example Human Paladin matches original Silver Hand paladin archetype. There are lore classes which can be represented to some degree with gameplay classes without notable differences between the two, for example Draenei Paladin as manifestation of Draenei Vindicators. In fact, draenei didn't came to be paladins as humans, they are not essentially the same thing, but they are so close that you can impersonate Vindicator by paladin and leave it as it is, without much other questions. Then there are lore classes which can be represented by gameplay classes, but at the cost of some characteristics of that class, for example Zandalari Paladins as Zandalari Prelates. We all know that Zandalari draws their power from loa, so their source of power is different to humans, draenei, elves. Zandalari Prelates are their own thing, but their uniqueness is not supported by paladin class.

Now, back to the topic. Alliance represents faction of iconic paladins, as said. Alliance gave birth to Silver Hand and when we look at paladin class, it's gameplay and visuals have been modeled around it. For that matter, Alliance races shows that they came from this origin and I don't think there is anything more you can add to reinforce this. Alliance have also access to draenei and lightforged draenei paladins, which opens them an option of more exotic paladins, which fits in the theme of the class pretty well. To sum up, Alliance have access to standard archetypal paladins and also have option of some more outlandish ones.
If you look at the Horde, you can see that all their paladin races didn't have their origins in Silver Hand, which was chosen to be made as an archetype of gameplay paladin class. Blood elves started as Blood Knights, which drained Light from Naaru, basicly abusing the Light for their own needs. Tauren paladins are Sun Druids who took more warlike approach of their teachings. Zandalari paladins are chosen of Loa of Kings and they draw their power from it. We can see that all of them does not match lore and gameplay class. It feels weird to have tauren or zandalari paladin throwing hammers, reciting from holy librams while casting heals, etc. Horde has pretty great access to more exotic paladins, but they are pretty limited when it comes to good oldfashioned Silver Hand paladins. I admit that Blood Elves evolved to fill that role in the Horde lately and the game shown us that even blood elves joined paladin factions.

I'm not sure if I explained myself better, but all those things I just wrote are my personal opinions and you are free to disagree. For me, the list of Alliance paladins fullfils what I expect from the class on that faction, and while I won't deny that there could be more options to be had, I am OK with the way it is now.

On the other hand, when it comes to let's say druids, alliance side is centered mostly around cenarian druidism with only kul tirans displaying anything different, while Horde have cenarian druidism (both tauren races), dinomancy (zandalari) and loa worship (darkspear).

It's not about 'these races have different lore attached to them' for the frank majority of the playerbase, people don't care about the lore when it comes to character options.

They look at it like "ok I can be a human paladin, or a dwarf paladin, or a draenei paladin" . There isn't a distinction for many between dark iron dwarf paladin and dwarf paladin. Like I said, if someone doesn't already like a dwarf, they're not gonna care that a LF draenei is 'exotic'.

Same for Horde side, people didn't care that Zandalari paladins are different from Silver Hand origin, they just wanted troll paladin and use lore to justify it, not make it out to be "lore should be respected and thus the class option should be there"

If that were the case you would not have people complaining and agitating that Zandalari should be warlocks when Blizzard said they don't have it because it's not part of their society/or looked down upon I forget the exact reasoning they said, but people still want ZD warlock because they're not stuffed about the lore.

And none of this was ever about arguing against your PoV, just the statement that more shaman/druid option should come before more Paladins. In context of how many Shamans there are on Horde, it's weird there's so little Paladins on Alliance side.

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Appearance means shit. You can still be a "void elf" without looking like one i.e. Alleria. They've still given themselves to the void, thus being Paladins would be dumb.

Tauren Paladins are "Sun Druids" in lore, Paladin is just a gameplay mechanic because Blizzard isn't going to make a literal one-off class just for Tauren.

So "classes" in a sense mean shit too. Lore will always explain why an option is given and new lore can always be made. OR Blizzard can also just not give a shit and give it as well, just like they've done with blue eyes and fair skin for void elves.

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You guys are thinking way too hard for this when Blizzard themselves don't.

[THEORACLE64]

Tauren Paladins are "Sun Druids" in lore, Paladin is just a gameplay mechanic because Blizzard isn't going to make a literal one-off class just for Tauren.

So "classes" in a sense mean shit too. Lore will always explain why an option is given and new lore can always be made. OR Blizzard can also just not give a shit and give it as well, just like they've done with blue eyes and fair skin for void elves.

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You guys are thinking way too hard for this when Blizzard themselves don't.

Completely different. Blood Elves have Paladins, they exist. Void Elves are Blood Elves that defected and took in the void. Just because they can now look like their former selves i.e. not blue, it doesn't mean they retain the same abilities. Taking in the Void is literally the opposite thing of what Light is, so it makes zero sense that they'd still be able to be Paladins. Just because Taurens have a different way of accessing the light it doesn't mean it's different all together, it's still the light. Being consumed by the Void is quite literally the polar opposite to that.

You also seem to be the one thinking *way* too hard into it. It's pretty simple and straight forward why Void Elves can't be Paladins - it's in their name.