Going from casual to seriously playing still sucks ass

[Thelxi]

That's the reality of WoW today, and probably forever going forward. If you want to play you gotta get on the treadmill and deal with the ever escalating and meticulously calculated time-gating. It might look like chaos or RNG to us, but on their end it is the culmination of years of calculations.

[crakerjack]

oh dont you worry. Blizzard will have grinds in place for SL too. When BfA launched we didnt know half of the grind we would end up with during that xpac. Expect the same in SL. For some reason they want players to have "fun" with these endless grinds were getting gear is just a small factor.

I don't think blizzard will go overboard. Legion showed them that we don't mind grind systems like artifact power. They then created azerite power, but it wasn't as meaningful as artifact power. With artifact power, it felt rewarding to grind it out sometimes because you were close to your next artifact talent and you knew it would make you stronger. At the beginning of BFA, grinding azerite was kind of like "What's the point?". Which leads me to believe that essences was supposed to be the bailout system to give more meaning to azerite. "Well now the significance of azerite power is so you can use more essences." Which was hit and miss with most of the community. I liked essences, but I absolutely hated how they were obtained, especially for alts. They then added the cloak since azerite grind was pretty useless past 80 and then they added corruption. It felt like they were testing the waters, more than they planned for these systems to workout.

Even Ion said in a SL panel that he wants gear to be gear, no more corruption bullcrap. So far the only grind system in place is anima and for the most part, I've seen that play a role in torghast more so than anywhere else. That's just what I've noticed, but it can play more of a role elsewhere supposedly. Eitherway, I don't mind one grind system and I think blizzard realized how bad it is to have one system on top of another, on top of another. I'm optimistic about SL and if they do happen to implement multiple grind systems to the point where playing alts feels like two full time jobs, then I'll simply quit. I'm doubtful they'll repeat the mistakes they made in BFA.

[Elias01]

In other words you want to stop being casual and push harder content but you dont want to put any type of effort to actualy achieve it.

[lollerlaban]

Blizzard needs to ban any type of mod like raider.io, etc. That will help with getting rid of the elite snobs making judgements without even knowing one's skill or ability to adapt at higher levels of play.

Except Raider.io gives the person the ability to know one's skill and ability. The problem is on you not giving a shit in the season prior hence your experience is outdated, why would they bring you instead of the 4k IO reliable 150+ timed +15 runs?

[jellmoo]

But the content is also simple and linear, the difficulty just isn't there. It's mostly replaced by tedium, which is not my personal idea of a good time. If that appeals to someone, sure, not a problem, more power to them.

I'm not disagreeing. The game itself is simpler, though it also has a lot less hand holding, therefore using obfuscation instead of complexity. However, it is an option that the OP may wish to explore.

As for "serious" play, obviously the higher you go the more stringent the demands on your performance. That's always been the case. It just depends on what you consider "serious" in this context. It's very possible to do mythic raiding and M15+ without no-lifing the shit out of the game, but if your plan is to rank, say, World Top 50 or something like that then you'll have to be a pumper.

I think the big problem now is that the point of entry feels ridiculously hard to hit for players returning to the game after a long leave. They may not need the absolute best, but they do need to gear up. And while the catchup mechanics are there, just looking at what you need can be daunting. Blizzard has been using increased power levels in a variety of forms as their "carrot" to incentive people doing content, and it's created a mish mash of a gearing system.

The bigger problem I see is the PvP/PvE overlap, which REALLY pisses me off. PvPers are forced to do PvE content, and PvErs are forced to do PvP content - and it's really bad when someone is in a place they don't want to be, but other people need to rely on them doing well.

Remember that Blizzard doesn't want to have PvP players and PvE players. They want players engaging in all of the content, not just select bits. That's why they mix rewards between the play styles, as well as things like professions and pet battles.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Keep up with the content as it comes out and it wont be a problem.

[dcc626]

Then it means system is working as intended. You shouldn't be required to have alts or even be bored on your main so you HAVE TO resort to creating alts to have things to do.

And I believe wow is still too simple, we should have so much systems so it would be even impossible to understand what is good and what is not. Like PoE tree + crafting + items + stats.

and shadowlands is going to bring us back to boring gearing that a lot of people will love. and some will hate because you wont be handed gear for logging in.

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The answer to this is, as always, making your own group.

not to mention the fact that banning addons wont make people less elitist. they will just find new ways to do it. its the people, not the addons.

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completelly agree,so many gearing mechanics intertwined with one another that change so fast, is just too conterintuitive. I wish i could just log in and do ranked pvp and start progressing and gearing from there without having to learn and farm so much crap.

well then, shadowlands will be better for you. exceptraiding/m+ will have items that are good for you. and if you want legendaries you have to do torghast. but its an mmo, gearing is part of the game.

[Accendor]

For being serious in PvP you gotta have rank 3 in a bunch of essences + the right corruptions. For being serious in PvE it's the same story different corruptions/essences.

I wanna take the game seriously but truth is the game encourages me to not take the game seriously, asks me to farm some mounts and transmogs, and then do my weekly stuff.

Don't bother doing LFR, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Normal mode, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Heroic, you can't link experience to join them. Don't do Mythic, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Don't do PvP, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Forget about doing M+ your RIO rating sucks ass.

Remember to forget about doing your visions if you want to play a healer.

Stick to doing your emmesarries and maybe a weekly +15 chest. Then stop playing. That's what it feels like.

How do you guys break that cycle? You find a Heroic raidnig guild that is willing to carry you or what?

Just start to build up your raider.io
You are a healer, just use your own keys and form groups. Start low, build your score up. As soon as you have 10+ everywhere look for a mythic guild in the middle of the spectrum. Be honest with them, tell them that you want to play serious now and would like to join the main raid team in the long run. Before that you are completely willing to help out on alt runs as a healer, so people can play their DPS if they want. Continue for a few weeks. Do m+ with your guild now. Don't demand that they boost you, just ask if you can come with them, maybe even when they go with alts.
Once they realise you are cool, they will bring you to the farm bosses for mythic. Learn them, play them well, be a decent human being and they will invite you for progression. Boom, you are part of the team now.

[Celvira]

Keep up with the content as it comes out and it wont be a problem.

That would be less of a problem if WoW's loot wasn't tied so intrinsically to how much RNG favors you. Gear in BfA is plagued by a litany of passive bonuses that can cause your damage to skyrocket, which can cause a player with poor luck to under-perform despite having a decent item level.

[Clozer]

That would be less of a problem if WoW's loot wasn't tied so intrinsically to how much RNG favors you. Gear in BfA is plagued by a litany of passive bonuses that can cause your damage to skyrocket, which can cause a player with poor luck to under-perform despite having a decent item level.

Has been like this as long as I can remember. That lucky pleb with the broken trinket/weapon always did way more dmg than the unlucky pleb without, although the same ilvl.

My hunter is 8 days 120 and sims 80k dps. That's more than enough to clear any pve content this game has to offer(except some extreme high end m+).. and no, not a single boost.

[Celvira]

I suppose Legion's legendaries were fairly similar. Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I don't remember WoD or Wrath (i skipped cata and mop) being so detrimental with its RNG. Better items did more for the player, yeah, but that difference seemed reasonable.

[erifwodahs]

Right, after they ban the mod!

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These kids today... they trust everything a compooter tells them!

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Wrong and wrong. It also says NOTHING about that player's willingness to work through snags. I've had better luck without it than I've had relying on it. It's a very childish mod and it should be banned completely.

So you are calling anyone who uses it a kid? You know that many respected players uses it? Many of over 30s people I know uses it and we are actually building the score together as it is cool progression system. It's more like you are acting as a child because other kids play the games the way you don't want them to and throwing tantrums "delete or I will not play"

[Bigbazz]

It's true that going from casual to hardcore is a long road, but for the most part even if you're at a disadvantage you can still get a foot in the door if you have a guild. You will be behind and far from optimal, but nothing is stopping you from taking part and at least making a decent contribution on your way to catching up... But yeah it's not like in WOTLK/Cata where you could come back and gear up in raids for a few weeks and be on pretty much equal footing, these days there is a long shopping list of stuff to do that simply takes time.

For example it takes a few weeks to max level your cloak, if you grinded out absolutely everything dailies wise you could speed that up.. But then when you max your cloak you can only increase your corruption resist by 6 per week, which means nearly 2 months grind to catch up... The reality is that unless you start playing when a patch is new you're gonna be behind.

Nothing stopping you clearing mythic before Shadowlands, you already missed the progression race months ago anyway... Even in MOP blizzard had the subscription extension program (aka legendary cloak) and again in WOD (ring), so this isn't anything new.

[MrKnubbles]

Seriously, all you people who are shitting on RIO are probably people who got a high ilvl through open world content and then you wanna get into M+ and suddenly expect that anyone's gonna invite you to a high key even though you have no experience whatsoever.

If you want to get a good RIO score simply start doing low keys such as +2,+3,+4 and then move higher up. This will result in you getting a good score AND you will actually learn how these dungeons work before they get really hard (how logical right? As if that score you get almost makes sense). A good RIO score doesn't have to mean that you're a skilled player, however it absolutely does tell you who is terrible, because they never did a dungeon even close at this level.

I have 2 chars at 465+ from doing primarily M+ and H Ny'alotha. My raider io score sucks. It's a terrible system that players need to stop using to determine other's skill level. There are several dungeons that I haven't run on my Warrior because he doesn't need loot from them. There are several dungeons that I haven't run on my Hunter because he doesn't need loot from them. That doesn't mean I don't know the fights.

By your logic, I should spend my time running dungeons that I don't need gear from, on difficulties much lower than I'm capable of, to improve an online score which will convince other players that I am good at the game. That's the dumbest shit ever. This game is not that difficult, people need to quit acting like it is.

[kaminaris]

and shadowlands is going to bring us back to boring gearing that a lot of people will love. and some will hate because you wont be handed gear for logging in.

Or just stop playing and start wondering why no one is signing up for heroic raids or M+.
That's a lot more probable to come.

People are really delusional thinking they can go back to old vanilla ways where everything was mystery and whole playerbase was dumb.
Everything is known, you gear will be the same as some other joe gear as you both will be following same guide and you won't even give a single thought about it.
Because everything has been calculated already, even before game will come out.
So you will start your "journey" to collect all the pieces guide said and then what? You will stop playing, at least thats what people do when they achieve their goal.
And if loot will be really rare, people stop before even finish that "journey".

And don't kid yourself, thats exactly whats going to happen.

[OFiveNine]

While the azerite/corruption/essence system sucks massive cock, you gotta grind up to get into "serious" wow

[neik]

Blizzard needs to ban any type of mod like raider.io, etc. That will help with getting rid of the elite snobs making judgements without even knowing one's skill or ability to adapt at higher levels of play.

Mythic plus dungeons require certain level of adaptation and muscle memory that can only be acquired by playing and repeating the keys. Mechanics that people otherwise tend to ignore it, or don't even notice them while playing heroics or low keys, it will easy one shot them, or waste important healing cooldowns. Nobody really want's to deplete keys, unless it's a guild group and everyone is agreeing on learning.

I believe that there would be no mythic plus without an ability to filter out inexperienced players, this is where RIO comes in really handy. And by the way, anyone can start improving their game play and RIO score. Everyone gets a key at the end of normal mythic dungeon, they can slowly start grinding their way upwards, gaining experience, and score in a process. It's that easy.

[Rinaul]

If you make your own groups, such as raids, this isn't that much a problem. People might call you out for being shit dps/heals but if you do mechanics and don't die and the group is killing shit, most won't care.

[callipygoustp]

If you make your own groups, such as raids, this isn't that much a problem. People might call you out for being shit dps/heals but if you do mechanics and don't die and the group is killing shit, most won't care.

Stop forcing people to be social!!!!
/s

[lollerlaban]

Right, after they ban the mod!

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These kids today... they trust everything a compooter tells them!

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Wrong and wrong. It also says NOTHING about that player's willingness to work through snags. I've had better luck without it than I've had relying on it. It's a very childish mod and it should be banned completely.

You can temper tantrum all you want but the facts are out there.

I've had better luck without it than I've had relying on it

Because you're shit at using a tool doesn't mean it's bad