What if Blizzard made Night Elves a power house again?

[Mace]

putting Maiev as the leader would be awesome but also completely unrealistic.

@Kyphael - what this guy said, not the way she is currently anyway - and I presume you don't want her change. I also assume what you really want is night elves kicking ass again and being dangerous - I think they have sentinels, wardens, feral cat druids, Moonguard and Demon hunters that fit that role quite well. Highborne, Moon Priestesses, Balance & Resto druids are the benevolent/noble types - this is the duality that exists in the night elves, you can't really remove one just because the other is needed. What you can do is show more of the side that's been invisible the aggressive side (often referred to as savage or feral) so they appear to have a backbone, Dhs, Moonguard, Wardens and Sentinels show this side quite well.

[Tanaria]

@Kyphael Dhs, Moonguard, Wardens and Sentinels show this side quite well.

Except Wardens and Sentinels are the core representatives, as far as the main Alliance group of Night Elves go.

DH's stay with their Sin'dorei DH Colleagues and vise-versa. Nelf and Belf DH's compliment each other's savagery.
Moonguard is basically over. Only a scattered few in the single digits, remain and they are very diverse in views.

Lothrius Mooncaller expresses an interest in visiting Silvermoon City's vast libraries as well as rewrite the story of the night elves.

[Mace]

Because he is wiser than that and respects both Cenarius and Hamuul Runetotem. I guarantee you the Druids of the Horde don't stand by the actions of Sylvanas, and they were probably the first to join Saurfang in rising up after the War of Thorns. If Malfurion is still in contact with Cenarius, which he could easily be (Emerald Dreaming and all that) then he would certainly have a nuanced viewpoint of events and not want to go scorched earth on the Horde. He's tens of thousands of years old, probably capable of wise leadership.

Correct, AGAIN - man my respect for you is rising. The horde druids were 100% absent from the WoT, you also have to note that the Nightborne and Highmountain were also completely absent, while the void elves and Lightforged were around in the Lordaeron counterattack - certain horde groups you can safely conclude did not agree at all. And this is more realisitc. Not everyone is going to agree or even answer the call to participate in something they're totally against.

Another thing people aren't getting too is the Cenarion circle control Felwood through to Hyjal and Desolace and would work with either faction - from current politics this makes those zones a no go for night elf new home - although things like that won't stop a developer if they want to use it, nor would Suramar and the broken isles having Tauren and night elves in the horde stop them either if that's what they preferred/wanted.

[Yarathir]

Except Wardens and Sentinels are the core representatives, as far as the main Alliance group of Night Elves go.

DH's stay with their Sin'dorei DH Colleagues and vise-versa. Nelf and Belf DH's compliment each other's savagery.
Moonguard is basically over. Only a scattered few in the single digits, remain and they are very diverse in views.

Lothrius Mooncaller expresses an interest in visiting Silvermoon City's vast libraries as well as rewrite the story of the night elves.

Not sure if Night Elf DHs would stay with Blood Elf DHs after Teldrassil.

Considering Night Elves became DHs to avoid shit like the Burning of Teldrassil.

[DemonHunter18]

@Kyphael - what this guy said, not the way she is currently anyway - and I presume you don't want her change. I also assume what you really want is night elves kicking ass again and being dangerous - I think they have sentinels, wardens, feral cat druids, Moonguard and Demon hunters that fit that role quite well. Highborne, Moon Priestesses, Balance & Resto druids are the benevolent/noble types - this is the duality that exists in the night elves, you can't really remove one just because the other is needed. What you can do is show more of the side that's been invisible the aggressive side (often referred to as savage or feral) so they appear to have a backbone, Dhs, Moonguard, Wardens and Sentinels show this side quite well.

Illidari Demon Hunters shouldn't join anyone IMO.

Demon Hunters made on Azeroth (which isn't many) can join but not Illidari.

[Mace]

Except Wardens and Sentinels are the core representatives, as far as the main Alliance group of Night Elves go.

DH's stay with their Sin'dorei DH Colleagues and vise-versa. Nelf and Belf DH's compliment each other's savagery.
Moonguard is basically over. Only a scattered few in the single digits, remain and they are very diverse in views.

Lothrius Mooncaller expresses an interest in visiting Silvermoon City's vast libraries as well as rewrite the story of the night elves.

Okay, you don't have to remind me every time I mention DHs that they're not night elves, , in the context I was using it, I was obviously referring to night elven Dhs who are quite evidently fierce/aggressive and quite night elven. Also Moonguard are still around (even if i'ts a handful, all the leaders, and all their knowledge and technique survived - and don't forget their are former Moonguard amongst the Darnassians - the legendary battle mage can be repopulated - never forget that, it is night elves that made groups like Moonguard, Highborne and Demon Hunters, and that race is still around and each of those groups are also). Also the ones we saw in action were quite emphatically aggressively skilled in magical combat and looked dangerous and powerful which is what most want Night elves to be portrayed as now after 16 years of weak passivity.

[Sagenod]

I would also direct this response to @Kyphael - where else did we see blizzard turn global focused race and reduce them to petty faction squabbles - yep, the very night elves, and leaders like Malfurion and Tyrande - which I would point out to Kyphael, have never been the issue with night elves it's how blizzard has used them.

Malf/Tyrande don't make sense with their track record, leading a group of weaklings that can't seem to do anything, it makes them look weak, especially if you can't use them in most faction conflicts i.e. pre-Bfa, and when you do, WoT/BFA it's hard not to make them overpowered.

Like Illidan, they should play a part in affairs, but should be global affaris, the night elves' solution is simple, take them out of the Horde/alliance (incl Nightborne) and make them largely neutral, keep the player NElves/NBorne just as veteran legends who are loyal to their faction and their race.

But you don't need to kill Tyrande/Malfurion at all - they instead should be leading their classes . Malfurion as the global druid leader, Tyrande as the Order of Elune leader that does influence the night elf affairs heavily, but by now those affairs should have spread to encompass Nightborne and some Thalassians especially Void elves and both Gilnean and new race recommendation Night elf worgen. Night elf leadership should fall to someone like Jarod or if he is restored to life. Prince Farondis - Maiev has many interesting and unique characteristics that make her well liked, but she'd be awful as a leader without either serious retcon or change which will cease to make her the Maiev you know.

Jarod and Shandris would keep Kaldorei lands safe, we can say that much. The Wardens are specialist agents that investigate and root out corruption, they aren't really meant to be in positions of direct leadership. Maiev is probably on a soul-seeking journey since everything that happened with Illidan up to this point has very likely turned her world upside down. She'll be back though and the Wardens would be instrumental in the joint Jarod-Shandris strategy, which I can only imagine entails a series of tactically brilliant guerilla assaults on the key points they want to capture in Kalimdor. Seriously if Jarod comes back the war in Kalimdor won't last much longer. The Horde will end up ceding swaths of land they've claimed over the years and sue for peace with the Kaldorei, which Jarod and Shandris will be happy to oblige.

Malfurion sort of already is in the position you're talking about. Him and Hamuul are effectively the leaders of the Druids on Azeroth. It's respect for Cenarius and Hamuul/the Tauren that will keep Malfurion from taking any particularly drastic actions against the Horde other than defending the land from their destructive antics. Tyrande is on a path that I think we're all concerned about right now. The power of the Night Warrior could very well be consuming her, removing her morality and rationale. Only time will tell, but as it stands I see us losing Tyrande completely, which might break Malfurion's spirit and cause him to lose his grip on reality as well. So the two ancient thearchs of the Kaldorei may not have much longer.

[Vaedan]

Night Elves are not in a position to take Suramar.

Suramar can call on it's closest allies, being the Highmountain, then the Blood Elves who would answer the call and maybe even the Forsaken would join, if Velonara held an influence in the Forsaken and wanted to rebuild connections with the Sin'dorei.
It's also likely the other Horde races would help defend Suramar from the invading night elves of Ashenvale.

Sure, right now, they are not in such position. The whole premise of this thread is "what if night elves are powerfull again", which means they use sources of power at their disposal.

[Mace]

Not sure if Night Elf DHs would stay with Blood Elf DHs after Teldrassil.

Considering Night Elves became DHs to avoid shit like the Burning of Teldrassil.

blizzard doesn't map these things - but yes, exactly that. Although I don't think they would blame their BElf DH brothers for the actions or position of the Belf nation - they seem quite a tight group, view each other as brothers-sisters regardless of which sub-race they are. They are likely to act on purpose and principle.

e.g. the night elf DHs would help the night elves defend their lands, I mean it is avenging their people and saving them that was the motivation for becoming a DH in the first place anyway.. likewise the BELf ones would step in to help if the BElves came under fire.

I say this because this is what we see the DHs doing in night elf areas like Felwood, even though they aren't tursted and viewed as legion friends by their kin during Cataclysm - we see them trying to help out anyway, they know their efforts aren't welcome or appreciated, but they see things differently - they would burn a forest down to destroy the legion threat in it and would unleash fel magic on a sacred grove or temple to eliminate the more dangerous Legion demonic presence there - their kin like the Felwood quests show, are often quite soft and don't really grasp the full threat of the legion they are fighting - you can imagine the DH sneering at their naivete and total underestimation of the enemy they face, especially if they think prioritising a grove over removing that sort of threat is more important.


These night elves trained all the blood elven demon hunters, and judging from Kayn sunfury, the Belf ones are just as passionate about the cause, and would likely act similarly, in fact he Belf ones may even be more protective of their folk against other threats than the night elf ones who's primary beef is demonic threat - the Night elf ones witnessed he fall of their civilization, as Illidan recalls in the video reminding the night elves before him of their cities, towns and villages that were mercilessly burned. The blood elves he recruits similar tragedy is scourge inflicted, legion proxy, so I feel they'd be even more protective of Thalassians from outside threats.

[Sagenod]

Correct, AGAIN - man my respect for you is rising. The horde druids were 100% absent from the WoT, you also have to note that the Nightborne and Highmountain were also completely absent, while the void elves and Lightforged were around in the Lordaeron counterattack - certain horde groups you can safely conclude did not agree at all. And this is more realisitc. Not everyone is going to agree or even answer the call to participate in something they're totally against.

Another thing people aren't getting too is the Cenarion circle control Felwood through to Hyjal and Desolace and would work with either faction - from current politics this makes those zones a no go for night elf new home - although things like that won't stop a developer if they want to use it, nor would Suramar and the broken isles having Tauren and night elves in the horde stop them either if that's what they preferred/wanted.

Well thank you very much! I strive to be as objective as I can when analyzing and speculating on the lore. Every race including the Night Elves has the propensity for both good and evil, it's only a matter of how interesting the devs make it.

We know Desolace, Felwood and Hyjal are all on track to recover, should they be free of anymore disasters. Maraudon has been purified, the aggressive tribes of Centaurs routed and that big ol' oasis in the middle of Desolace will hopefully take things from there. Felwood is effectively free from the remnant Shadow Council and Satyrs, so if the Emerald Circle sticks to it recovery could begin to accelerate. Hyjal pretty much only had the Twilight's Hammer to deal with, who were ultimately responsible for Deathwing and thus the Firelands disaster. It will certainly take time but factor in Nordrassil and the nascent Well of Eternity and the mountain could recover faster than we may think.

[Mace]

Maiev is an exiled traitor and actual psychopathic murderer who got a one-sentence handwave pardon in bfa because blizzard forgot she was still exited in legion and couldn't be bothered developing another warden character. Also, she gets betrayed by her subordinates at an alarming rate.

I think it would be a garrosh tier mistake.

Agreed, Maiev is an excellent wrden, and great at her task, but a leader of a people? Oh no. Military leader, yes, special forces leader yes, loner yes, racial or national leader? NO!! Big no.

Even if she recovers psychologically, the night elves won't trust her or shouldn't, blizz would have to write another book and ake them through a sries of events where Maiev has proved to be sane and competent or the Night elves have no other choice b/c Tyrande, Shandris and most other eligible candidats are dead.

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Lothrius Mooncaller expresses an interest in visiting Silvermoon City's vast libraries as well as rewrite the story of the night elves.

It could mean he joins the horde, or he is just curious to see other elven civilizations that arose. He'sonly known kaldorei ones, and at this point has no reason to mistrust the Blood elves.

It's just a comment too, I wouldn't read too much into it, he just wanted to see it. Unlike the Nightborne who look a little different, he still has the visage of the kaldorei the BElves hate, so who knows. Also many of his former brethren are amongst the Darnassians too, some may be Highborne now if they were picked by the Shen'dralar and took the offer.

[Tanaria]

- - - Updated - - -
It could mean he joins the horde, or he is just curious to see other elven civilizations that arose. He'sonly known kaldorei ones, and at this point has no reason to mistrust the Blood elves.

It's just a comment too, I wouldn't read too much into it, he just wanted to see it. Unlike the Nightborne who look a little different, he still has the visage of the kaldorei the BElves hate, so who knows. Also many of his former brethren are amongst the Darnassians too, some may be Highborne now if they were picked by the Shen'dralar and took the offer.

Accept Blood Elves don't hate all Night Elves.

They hate the hypocrisy the Night Elves of the Alliance showed by accepting the Shen'dralar, but still treating them as second-class dirt, despite everyone knowing what the Shen'dralar were doing for thousands of years. (Feeding off a demon.)

Lady Liadrin's Magi were very open to talk with Lothrius, as the Moonguard in Suramar were not part of the Night Elves who had the Blood Elves' ancestors, exiled.

Not sure if Night Elf DHs would stay with Blood Elf DHs after Teldrassil.

Considering Night Elves became DHs to avoid shit like the Burning of Teldrassil.

Why wouldn't they?
Blood Elf Demon Hunters weren't involved with the Burning of Teldrassil.

In fact, the Night Elf Demon Hunters were with the Blood Elf Demon Hunters, at the time of the disaster. The point is; they are all Demon Hunters. They share a core value, regardless of whether they are Thalassian or Darnassian.

Plus, if the Night Elf ones want to leave, fine. The Blood Elves can lead the Illidari, with the Broken, Naga and Shivarra.

[Mace]

- Suramar will probably never happen. Neither Malfurion nor Tyrande cares about it like that from what we've seen. They probably see it as a bleak reminder of the darkness they crawled their way out of. For such similar things to happen there again during the events of Legion would likely only create more disdain for Suramar. Now if the Night Elves entered into open warfare with the Horde on an international scale I could see them targetting the Broken Isles, but not unless the conflict grew to such immensity.

Existing lore reasons don't usually determine these things, and how a character will react or chooses to is often entirely down to the writer, which is why it was never inplauusible for Nightborne to pick the horde despite being a night elf sub-race, we would assume or think hey would have gone Nelf, just like Highmountain went Tauren, and Lightforged went with Draenei, but like void and blood elves, they went with races in the opposite faction to that of the group the kin they are from was, and this based on a choice they made based on how they were written to feel or behave.

As a druid, I don't think Malfurion or any true druid cares much about cities - they love nature, and they want nature the undisturbed paradise they see in the dream they spend thousands of years in - nature is their world and beauty, their beloved - they are not going to want cities, whether Suramar, or wood elf type tree /forest cities - in fact they are likely to prefer non forest lovers to focus in high concentration areas like cities where there disturbance or intrusion of nature is kept to a minimum (, However being humanoids themselves and benevolent types, they will equally recognise the right for sentient beings to live, requiring homes etc that are not purely part of nature, but would prefer they do so in towns/cities imo and I think they would prefer they use stone, marble, glass for these instead of trees too - so much for the tree house theories). I think some don't mind working the parks and gardens there (like in Stormwind for example finding new places for nature to flourish and adapt). There main goal is really harmony, you can have cities but live in harmony, even if their preference is undisturbed raw natural beauty.

Tyrande on the other hand, is not pissed off at Suramar at all, it's her city of birth, not to mention the holy capital of the order (if you know the lore - the defilement of the Legion would enrage her), she's annoyed at the Nightborne too, not the city itself, Tyrande is a priestess, Temples, palaces of her Goddess she would defend with her life, beauty is not evil, nor is it wrong to like it, but is something amazing and what you would want to give to the best of your ability to the Goddess.

However I will disagree they see it as a bleak reminder and wager it's the opposite.. you see, when the cities were destroyed, they mourned them, you don't do that over something you hate or didn't like. They are also described as wondrous places, you don't say that over things you don't like. Furthermore, the cities were the casualties, not the cause of the destruction - they have no reason to hate them or feel they are reminders of something terrible. - the ruins on the other hand would serve as a reminder of their hubris and the legion (as if to say, this i.e. rubble and destruction is what hubris gets you, this is what the Legion does - however this is the opposite of hating a pristine beautiful city..

Saying that, would it not be correct to conclude it is the legion they hate? And isn't this seen quite often to be the case in their lore? Would it not be what destroyed their wondrous cities that they would hate or not want to be reminded off? Like the Legion and their folly? Arrogance, reckless use of magic and addiction? You see I don't believe they blame the arcane at all, or beautiful buildings (seeing they used the well for Moonwells even when banning the practice of arcane all through the long vigil) and Darnassus has pre-sundering buildings in the beautiful night elven style (old model version) - no. It's the addiction of the Nightborne that would remind them of their folly, ruins too and ofc the Legion swarming for the Nightwell not the arcane itself or the city.

I reckon the Night elves would have had a longing for Suramar on seeing it again, and would be reminded that they did do very good things in the past, built something amazing, what would be utterly embarrassing is for the whole world to see how addicted and bad judgement the night elves could get in the Nightborne - Tyrande, proud of her race and her city would be very angry and heartbroken to see those people yield to their lust and cower, rather than stand up for what is right. (Remember nighte lf starting area and the comment of the Satyr being "an embarrassment to us all?"

It is likely Tyrande is more motivated to save the city than the people in it - but I wouldn't go so far, she does help them even though she is annoyed about having to do so again for a people who previously refused to fight Azshara in the last march, but instead hide, and now just wave the white flag to the Legion after mere threats.

[Ardenaso]

Legion is defeated, so night elves have no reason to not utilise Well of Eternity now.

I've always thought why hasn't Tyrande/Malfurion allowed Mordent and his Highborne (as well as Vereesa and her High Elves) to bask in their moon wells and their Well of Eternity since the threat of the Legion is forever gone now

[Sagenod]

Existing lore reasons don't usually determine these things, and how a character will react or chooses o is ofen entirely down to the writer, which is why I was never inplauusible for Nightborne to pick the horde despite being a night elf sub-race, we would assume or think hey would have gone Nelf, just like Highmountain went Tauren, and Lightforged went with Draenei, but like blood elves, they went with races in the opposite faction to that of their kin based on a choice they made baed on how they were written to feel or behave.

As a druid, I don't think Malfurion or any true druid cares much about cities - they love nature, and they want nature the undisturbed paradise they see in the dream they spend thousands of years in - nature is the world and beauty - they are not going to want cities, whether Suramar, or wood elf type tree /forest cities - in fact they are likely to prefer non forest lovers to focus in high concentration areas like cities where there disturbance or intrusion of nature is kept to a minimum, However being humanoids themselves and benevolent types, they will equally recognise the right for sentient beings to live, requiring homes etc that are not purely part of nature, but would prefer they do so in towns/cities imo. I think some don't mind working the parks and gardens there (like in Stormwind for example finding new places for nature to flourish and adapt). There main goal is really harmony, you can have cities but live in harmony, even if there preference is undisturbed raw natural beauty.

Tyrande on the other hand, is not pissed off at Suramar at all, it's her city of birth, not to mention the holy capital of the order (if you know the lore - the defilement of the Legion would enrage her), she's annoyed at the Nightborne too, not the city itself, Tyrande is a priesess, Temples, palaces of her Goddess she would defend with her life, beauty is not evil, nor is it wrong to like it, but something amazing.

However I will disagree they see it as a bleak reminder and wager it's the opposite.. you see, when the cities were destroyed, they mourned them, you don't do that over something you hate or didn't like. They are also described as wondrous places, you don't say that over things ou don't like. Furthermore, the cities were the casualties, not the cause of the destruction - they have no reason to hate them or feel they are reminders of something terrible.

Saying that, would it not be the legion they hate? would it not e what destroyed their wondrous cities that they would hate or not want to be reminded off? Like the Legion and their folly? Arrogance, reckless use of magic and addiction? You see I don't believe they blame the arcane at all, or beautiful buildings (seeing they used the well for Moonwells even when banning the practice of arcane all through the long vigil) and Darnassus has pre-sundering buildings in the beautiful night elven style (old model version) - no. It's the addiction of the Nightborne that would remind them of their folly, and ofc the Legion swarming for the Nightwell not the source of arcane itself or the city.

I reckon the Night elves would have had a longing for Suramar on seeing it again, and would be reminded that they did do very good things in the past, buil something amazing, what would be utterly embarrassing is for the whole world to see how addicted and bad judgement the night elves could get in the Nightborne - Tyrande, proud of her race and her city would be very angry and heartbroken to see those people yield to their lust and cower, rather than stand up for what is right.

It is likely Tyrande is more motivated to save the city than the people in it - but I wouldn't go so far, she does help them even though she is annoyed about having to do so again for a people who previously refused to fight Azshara in the last march, but instead hide, and now just wave the white flag to the Legion after mere threats.

Well said. I certainly hope the Night Warrior road leads to Suramar at some point, the story potential there is delectable (to put it in the most pretentious way possible, feckin Shal'dorei).

Do you think she will end up likely causing Suramar harm? Or maybe something more nuanced...

[Ardenaso]

THANK YOU OMG. I don't understand how the Trolls and Tauren didn't get kicked out the moment Teldrassil was set on fire. The Cenarion Circle didn't even allow Night Elf women in their ranks when it was first founded, but now every moron that can grow a pumpkin gets a pass? It's absolutely ridiculous. Malfurion is the supreme leader of the Cenarion Circle, why he hasn't kicked out every Horde member yet is beyond me.

I don't think blaming them by proxy is wise, the Horde members were literally kept in the dark about the war

[Mace]

Accept Blood Elves don't hate all Night Elves.

Accepted

and regarding the night elf situation, you saying an hypocrisy? Do you even know if the blood elves think that? It isn't unimaginable for sure, and quite possible, I would even wager they do, having made the comment myself several times in the past, but it's not said, and we all know the Shen'dralar situation is different, the blood elves could actually be aware of this - who knows, maybe they aren't all angry teen types from a CW show or bad soap opera that have to take everything the worse possible and angriest way for tons of drama to happen..

[Yarathir]

Why wouldn't they?
Blood Elf Demon Hunters weren't involved with the Burning of Teldrassil.

In fact, the Night Elf Demon Hunters were with the Blood Elf Demon Hunters, at the time of the disaster. The point is; they are all Demon Hunters. They share a core value, regardless of whether they are Thalassian or Darnassian.

Plus, if the Night Elf ones want to leave, fine. The Blood Elves can lead the Illidari, with the Broken, Naga and Shivarra.

It depends on what the Demon Hunters did after the Burning of Teldrassil.

I imagine the Night Elves definitely went to fight the Horde, which would probably force the Blood Elves to defend the Horde.

I don't believe for a second that Night Elf DHs wouldn't be perturbed by the Burning of Teldrassil. Their whole sacrifice shit was done, in their eyes, to protect their people. The Legion was just the greatest threat in their eyes, so that was their focus. But it's not like they were born with an inherent Demon hateboner.

[Tanaria]

It depends on what the Demon Hunters did after the Burning of Teldrassil.

I imagine the Night Elves definitely went to fight the Horde, which would probably force the Blood Elves to defend the Horde.

I don't believe for a second that Night Elf DHs wouldn't be perturbed by the Burning of Teldrassil. Their whole sacrifice shit was done, in their eyes, to protect their people. The Legion was just the greatest threat in their eyes, so that was their focus. But it's not like they were born with an inherent Demon hateboner.

But the thing is though - we don't have that evidence.
The only Demon Hunter we see in BFA is Marius and the Undead Warlock, Tehd.
This very union suggests quite the opposite to what you might be thinking. Neutral forces are still neutral, such as Marius (a night elf demon hunter) and Tehd (a forsaken warlock.)

Aside from him, the other popular Demon Hunters like Kayn, Kor'vas, Allari, Jace and Asha are nowhere to be found.

The Illidari hasn't disbanded either.

Accepted

and regarding the night elf situation, you saying an hypocrisy? Do you even know if the blood elves think that? .

Yes

"Because their expulsion from night elf society after the War of the Ancients was due to their use of arcane magic, the blood elves were outraged to hear that the kaldorei had welcomed the Highborne back and were tolerating the practice of arcane magic again. After witnessing the "rookie" mistakes made by the new kaldorei magi, however, the blood elves are anxiously awaiting whatever mess the kaldorei are going to put themselves in"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf#Cataclysm

[KOUNTERPARTS]

If that would stop the influx of annoying Night Elf threads that pop up every day by the same 3 night elf zealot posters... I'm all for it.