Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[ravenmoon]

I must admit, Highborne and Druids seem to be at the very top of the "features" list, for Blizzard, although I think the latter is more-so.

Although, purple vines can also work for night elf mages.

well, nature side is a core part of the night elves, and it wasn't distinctive enough in the original set even though the original model male is based on the druid.

Barbershop in wotlk did give the male night elf 1 new hairstyle that felt Highborne, and later added more to the female, , but for druids we defintiely needed a bushier look, while the Highborne appearanec needs a more trimmed streamline look.

they needed both, but ofc, the Highborneone needed a bit more - which is why i hope it's not done.

[Tanaria]

well, nature side is a core part of the night elves, and it wasn't distinctive enough in the original set even though the original model male is based on the druid.

Barbershop in wotlk did give the male night elf 1 new hairstyle that felt Highborne, and later added more to the female, , but for druids we defintiely needed a bushier look, while the Highborne appearanec needs a more trimmed streamline look.

they needed both, but ofc, the Highborneone needed a bit more - which is why i hope it's not done.

I'd rather the skin tones be added, where some are more "Highborne" in style and Blizzard now give a focus to Sentinels and Night Elf Warriors.
We've even got the potential for the "blind gold" eye colour to be seen as "red" and with that a "Kaldorei Dark Ranger" in style.

That's great, but let's get some more ruthless features. Many some more tattoos for the females, which suggest a very savage group of warrior-girls. Like, I'd love to see features and think "Bet they were part of the squadron who fought Grommash Hellscream."

[Mace]

From your response in the High Elf megathread - hope you enjoy the read Strippling, I enjoyed writing it - sorry if it's too long, but I hope you find it worth the read, if only to understand why we feel the way we do about this.

Yes, they're lovely aren't they. And yes I am hoping for more on the Highborne side and theme. Do you know why?

My view is that the entirety of the night elf lore is what the race is about, not just wc3 presentation. So they have the forest elf side and the dark elf side. One may feel more prevalent than the other (it actually isn't) but it's both together that make the night elf special, rather than generic.

The Hope and Claim To More
I know night elves seem to be a lot more nature focused than anything else, but it really isn't as large as it seems from playing game material, if you include ALL their material. However, the nature side could use with some freshening up that reflected some previous art and appearances and what is a core part of the Night elves, which is why I am glad to see the changes so far (ears aside), however so to do the other aspects which I am a bit disappointed not to see. Do not Highborne and DH customisations need better and more options too? They may be smaller, but they are there and are popular, much loved - isn't customisations options there to give us much wider scope of the things we can roleplay as? Leaving out Highborne ones wont be true to that.

Yes, the Highborne are much smaller in the playable group making the arcane elven culture smaller here than it is in other elven off shoots like the blood elves or the Nightborne which are the allied race based on that aspect of the night elves. It's still there, it's an important and loved part, and it should have representation too.

It's good to hope and share your feelings and expectations and also why you do. The why has been a focus of my brothers, friends I've made along the way and myself ofc, it's good not to forget the why cos it's one of the parts of the race we like a lot too and feel definitely makes the night elf set more interesting and varied.

Night Elves are more than just Forests - They Need to Be and Should Be
No race just has 100% natural landscape void of sentient being interaction or even 100% of one type of landscape, and night elves have beautiful forests, cities and temples, we finally saw in non ruined versions when Suramar and warbringers Azshara came,. An example of hope becoming a reality when at last we saw those cities from the lore. I think now it is not so far or vain a hope as it was before Legion for the actual Kaldorei not only for their sub race. Night elf lands also have barren wastelands, grasslands, farm lands too. It's just part of how sentient races work. They have lots of ruins too, I think these are perfect locations to rebuild rather and I would imagine the night elves would feel so and not create a new city on forested land.

Perhaps we've delved into the night elf too deeply, but from what I see and understand about them, a night elf city is not the place for the forest elf side of the night elves who prefer nature in its purest form and are always shown in forests with very few homes and the druids living under caves or trees to disturb nature as little as possible. But a Night elf city can be beautiful and look like a night elven wondrous city of their lore and have lots of nature in parks, gardens etc - with a city people living there, not disrupting nature and actually living quite in harmony as their carry out functions necessary to sentient life forms that do require cities.

Why We Feel Night Elves Won't/Shouldn't Have a Tree City or Village as a Capital
Based on the character and lore blizzard gave them, the forest elf side aren't the type that's going to convert large numbers of trees into homes, nor congregate in large numbers, this is why tree city has never been shown for night elves who are half forest elves, and why the cities, including Darnassus are more priest and mage type places and so don't need to be literal forests. Also cities are another legitimate part of the night elves, even if those that desire it are smaller in numbers and most of them were 10k years in the past, it's still a side to night elves worth having around for variation sake. The forest has its forest homes, it's too samey to also bring that to cityscape, and I'm glad blizzard didn't do that for Darnassus, or Zin'Azshari or Suramar, but actually made them actual cities, trying hard to show them as stunning and wondrous, it's not bad to hope any night elf city follows that trend rather than, yet another rural setting in a forest for a city of all things.


So even with much fewer number, even if it is only the mage and priest types there, i.e, non druid/hunter night elves that have uses or desires for cities, they would build beautiful and extravagant ones whether as a tribute to the goddess, or love for beauty and great elven skill/craftsmanship, it should be and reflect their graceful identity. To me what their numbers mean is that you will have far fewer cities, maybe 1 large ones, and another smaller one elsewhere in addition to the various fortresses and strongholds of various orders which are just massive buildings (Warden vault, Black Rook hold, Moonguard stronghold, CoEN). I don't view their fewer numbers to mean they wont have any city nor would have a rural city (i.e. a village as capital like in the long vigil). Cities are not how the forest half live or would want to, and the non forest half aren't going to build rural stuff for a city, not these ones who've done far more than that, and I think the forest half would prefer them not to use the trees to make homes but rather use metals, stone, marble, glass, Pearl's and other materials that don't hurt living things. To me, this is in line with harmony with nature, Druids would recognise sentient humanoids need homes (they aren't animals)but they would rather they don't use living trees or disturb forests, to do so. And once they build their city, would be happy to grow gardens and parks, flowers and add more nature to the land.

Reason for Hoping Night Elves Get a Proper City
So you see I have very good reason to believe and hope a night elf city would be "night elven !"stunning like Suramar or Zin'Azshari - great night elf works. The pre sundering era may be gone, but many night elves from there who built such things are still around, and the lore lets us know they really loved their civilization, none hated it (it's the Legion they hated, and bad attitudes of magic abuse and addiction the elites developed, it wasn't beautiful buildings and forests), and while many night elves prefer only the wilds today, many need a city, temples and such especially as the reasons for the main group never rebuilding one during the military long vigil era are fully over and their entire race are no longer in isolation.

This means that while the forest druid night elves can continue to dedicate themselves to the wilds, the night elf government and nation can no longer be in isolation, nor do they need to if you understood why they were there. This means many night elves will continue dedicated to the forest in forest areas, but also we will have many congregate in cities. With arcane magic back along with 10k years extra experience and knowledge from the Highborne Shen'dralar leaders, those who need and want cities will rebuild them and they don't interfere with forests nor would they make the forest half of the night elves any less forest for other night elves having a city or 2.

If Darnassus had so many pre-sundering buildings and architecture in it, and that was before the Highborne return, a new city will definitely reflect the races style and beauty, which we see in Suramar in game and in Zin'Azshari. Remember, just because the Nightborne have Suramar, doesn't suddenly mean it's not night elven, that is like thinking just because the blood elves have Silvermoon, it isn't high elven or high elves wont build homes like that or desire homes like Silvermoon they built and lived in. High elves are not going to build homes like the Lodge in Loch Modan they also built or Quel'danil lodge in the Hinterlamds, those are rural buildings for rural areas, not cities, nor are they going to build human buildings because they've been staying in Dalaran or Stormwind..

It's the same with night elves..those who need cities and desire them are not going to build rural homes or waste/convert masses of trees for them just because they lived a long time without cities because of their sacred Long vigil mission or because a large number of them prefer forests. Those that prefer forests will ofc continue to live in them, they're not going to be forced to join those who prefer a city. Even if the city lovers are few Highborne and the government priesthood, they will build a city and live there, it won't interfere with the forest

And they are going to build as good as they can in their style they know how, this is Suramar or Zin 'Azshari type. And this is why I hope.

Blizzard Will Do What They Want Anyway
Now blizzard may turn around and go, its tree city for you now - honestly, I'll be a bit disappointed, but that's their choice, I don't see the Highborne happy with it either, but who knows, maybe blizzard want to make their night elves 100% forest elves. It's their choice, it would be a disappointing move, totally unnecessary because the same could be achieved if 33% of Nelves were forest elves but the worse crime is that it would also erode all that was distinctive of the night elves as one of their few truly original elf renditions which is rare in fantasy, instead choosing to fully abandon what they pulled off well enough just to make them generic forest elves? I'll be disappointed,.

Even though my favourite aspect is the forest elf side, I do like the classy Highborne, fancy night city look and side, and the edgy gritty bad boy demon hunter side, and the hot amazonian warrior female babe...they make the race much more interesting, but it is their arcane side , pre sundering parts that truly gives them a different environment, so it's quite important, and it is also the side that strongly connects them to the other elves.

If you remove that , you might as well make them another race, they'd be elf only in name and share nothing with Thalassians or Nightborne which would not make sense since you have them as the parent elf race, the biggest elf nation and the most diverse still strong and pioneering, adapting to their changes surprisingly quickly for an ancient race which is a testament to their intelligence if these changes are right. Essentially they are to elves what Zandalari are to trolls, having the full expression of elven nature, abilities and types. So cutting off or keeping the arcane side near insignificant is actually undermining further the better aspects of their own fantasy, making it more trope and stereotypical, less original and unique and more junky.

If you ask me, they should be doing the opposite, but many have been questioning the quality of their lore recently and lore choices, it's becoming more junky, and long old time fans like me are on our last breadth over warcraft trying to highlight what is junky, what doesn't look so good and what we really treasured of their earlier works in the hopes they would do better.

Our voice is important even though it is few/small, because we are really into it and we will spot a lot of things others don't and won't even realise they are missing. This is why we do this.

FINALLY, DON'T MISTAKE ME WRITING A LOT TO MEAN I DESPERATELY HOPE THEY WOULD DO WHAT I WANT. I write this much because I JUST ENJOY EXPLAINING THINGS THAT I'VE UNDERSTOOD, and like talking about things I'm into. I've been disappointed so many times hoping for more and never getting it, I know it's foolish to be desperate over something like this.

@Strippling , @MyWholeLifeIsThunder. @Pheraz, @Alanar

A very important read. I don't see the night elves never being in a city, there are some who really do that and there is a need and place for cities even amongst night elves. And many who don't [it's common sense, the lore and what we are shown backs this up.]

• I don't think Night elves would use a forest to do a city or do a city of trees/forests - it's not how the forest half of them do things.
• I think night elves would want to rebuild the ancient ruins, and foundations destroyed by evil and hubris - the ancient wonders that were good and wonderful - the cities and civilization weren't evil, and the ruins were shunned for they were a reminder of the pride and folly that brought evil and ruin to something so loved and amazing - it isn't a rejection of civilization.
• I think night elves will use ruins locations, non-forest areas, wastelands, grasslands, to make their cities, i.e those of them who need/want them, they will make them very beautiful like Suramar and Zin'azsahri, they will be beautiful, not using trees or living things - but stones and marble, pearls, metals, jewels and glass, and they will beautify them with growing nature trees and plants with parks and garden, fines interwoven in the stone - marrying nature with arcane, natural with elf-made thing - for this is the completeness of life, two halves complimenting themselves. There isn't a better way to make barren places, wasteleands and ruins nice again - while fulfilling needs of people.
• It isn't only nature and nothing else night elves desire(like in the Emerald dreams the druids work in and love so much) - that's getting them wrong. It is nature also able to work with humanoids who have different requirements and don't all want undisturbed nature - the world can accommodate both, was meant for animals and the wild and for humanoids - and the two must be in balance and harmony. The night elven druid philosophy side of the race promotes, and shows and supports this harmony. Whether in city locations with lots of elves or in the forest setting with very few elves.

Please understand the Night ELves

• They don't believe that humanoids like elves don't have the right to be numerous and that humanoids wouldn't have specific greater needs, cities are invented so that life can support these humanoids in large numbers without then messing up nature all over the place with farms and houses popping up destroying or disrupting most forest land. Even if they don't mean to, humanoid life disrupts the purity of wild undisturbed nature, but there is a place for both - huamonids and nature, and night elves recognise this, and a balance for the two. The druids boost the nature bit, the rest of the night elves the place of the humanoids producing a truly beautiful enhanced and world in harmony.

Don't confuse the lack of cities during the Long vigil to mean night elves opposed them, there was a lack of cities for 2 main reasons:

1. A necessary ban on the arcane to prevent the Legion's return
2. The requirements of the Long Vigil task which was constant patrolling and military operation for the kaldorei and working in nature if you were a druid.

It was an isolation period whose function negated he need for congregating, building trade, family, progressing the life of a people or any of the things life use to be about - you know just living? Life was now soley about preventing the Legions return - and to do that meant guarding the well, patrolling the borders, hunting anyone who might have the means to make it happen or discover the well. It was not life as usually. So separate the two and let those in cities be in harmony with the land and nature, and let those in the forest be in harmony with

• Blizzard could ignore all of this, all their previous lore and change their entire mind about everything they've written the night elves to be about and mean. They are within their right to do so as bad as ithat may be. They can reshape them into full forest elves, evil elves, arcane elves or multiply more groups - this is there product and choice

You have to know that I know this. And if they do this, make them full forest elves or give them a tree city, I'll disagree with that move and comment I feel it was not the best way to go, just like I felt making the night elves so weak and too human like during wow wasn't the right way to go, just like I felt not showing the aggressive side to them more often was not good, too slow on bringing back the arcane half and showing it was also not good (but at least they did that) and showing too little of night elves in game, mostly in forests and instead leaving most of their activity and involvements to books.

- these are three things I don't agree with them, but they are minor and can be changed. Just like some don't agree with them bringing back the Highborne even if I'm quite sure those who think so don't understand what the night elves are supposed to be i.e. they're not supposed to be 100% forest elves, which means the other sides have to be seen currently - and Nightborne and Thalassians are not a replacements but rather are a different operation (Thalassians as a whole) and a small focus off shoot group (Nightborne)

[Tanaria]

I think we have some confusion as to what's going on here.

What we're saying is that, going from the most recent lore, with Tyrande going to Hyjal to dispatch the Sentinels to look for Sylvanas as well as Darkshore being a canonical victory for the Kaldorei and the Alliance, that places on Kalimdor (not the Broken Isles) are likely to be the places that Blizzard are planning to take the Kaldorei, where they can reestablish a new city and home, whether it's on the boughs of Nordrassil or Mt Hyjal itself or Darkshore.

The two former locations resonate closely with W3 Night Elf fans such as myself, so having the Night Elves around Hyjal in some form, with a city in it's most beautiful being nestled around the World Tree and the second Well of Eternity - it's something that many of us want, because it's something that drew us to the Night Elves.

Plus, to take the Night Elves away from that is almost robbing them of the identity that many people grew to like and want to keep. Taking the night elves away from Hyjal would be like taking the Forsaken away from Lordaeron and relocating them in Howling Fyjord. It wouldn't sit well with the majority of either of the fanbases and I know this isn't easily accepted by you, but you have to understand and just accept that their are many more night elf fans who want the night elves to remain on Kalimdor and Blizzard is seemingly listening to us (given the return to Hyjal after the meeting with Anduin went sour.)
The Forsaken are also, seemingly making a return to Lordaeron soon, which is necessary.

[ravenmoon]

@Mace Agreed

• The purpose of the night elves is not to be a 100% forest group only concerned with forests, but an elder, advanced people that know how to do good living at high standards in harmony and balance.

• There is no balance if it's only forest, balance between what? This is why they have that arcane-nature duality, this is why they have that civilization-rural duality. night-day , sereme-tempestuous, wild-ordered, savage-civilised - and is why there are non-druidic parts to the night elves.

This is the reason for the Highborne and advanced arcane civilization - the Highborne don't exist so we can have bad night elves or for the sole purpose of bringing about the Thalassians - they exist to define the duality of the night elves and their purpose and function of a balanced and harmonised world between nature and elf or nature and man.


This is what they show, and this is their powerful message. the elves stand for "the right way to do things, " or rather "the beautiful graceful and peaceful way to do things" - it's the core of the elven message. This is what the night elves represents.

The Thalassian don't have exactly the same purpose, they were created to be friends of humans in a fantasy world with humans and orcs, and though elves, they've been more defined by their allies - be it humans, trolls orcs or their magic, and their purpose has evolved . That's fine, everyone has it's purpose and Thalassians are a major part of the story and may not necessarily have originally been there to make a point or for a purpose.

Night elves were always ab it separate from the other races/world - but they were definitely meant to represent the core vision of what an Elf is supposed to be. This is why they are the original race, have such a varied history and lots of

Night elves as a race have a very good purpose and message to us in their existence. Eroding the arcane side, ignoring NElf cities, removes that purpose - and for what? So they have nothing in common with blood elves or Nightborne elves? are you kidding me? They're elves they're supposed to have things in common, but they are supposed to represent what the whole picture is like. The Nightborne are representing a specific era of the night elves that isn't complete, just like the long vigil while liveable wasn't the complete package, which is why we meet the night elves at the great event that ends it, and the big game starts after that in a new era.

[Pheraz]

I'm a bit torn here.

On the one hand I absolutely love the artstyle and lore about the high borne and those Greek inspired architecture and those arrogant elves. Really.
On the other hand I always felt that night elves could go more all out on that wood guerilla elves and that they need to get a proper city which is completely made out of trees and really nocturnal with thousands of whisps flying around.
Even though I loved starting as a night elf every time, I think the whole teldrassil idea was wrong. Instead of cities on a giant tree, they need a giant city made of many trees
But a touch of high borne and Elune moon priestess is absolutely right

[Mace]

I think we have some confusion as to what's going on here.

What we're saying is that, going from the most recent lore, with Tyrande going to Hyjal to dispatch the Sentinels to look for Sylvanas as well as Darkshore being a canonical victory for the Kaldorei and the Alliance, that places on Kalimdor (not the Broken Isles) are likely to be the places that Blizzard are planning to take the Kaldorei, where they can reestablish a new city and home, whether it's on the boughs of Nordrassil or Mt Hyjal itself or Darkshore.

The two former locations resonate closely with W3 Night Elf fans such as myself, so having the Night Elves around Hyjal in some form, with a city in it's most beautiful being nestled around the World Tree and the second Well of Eternity - it's something that many of us want, because it's something that drew us to the Night Elves.

Plus, to take the Night Elves away from that is almost robbing them of the identity that many people grew to like and want to keep. Taking the night elves away from Hyjal would be like taking the Forsaken away from Lordaeron and relocating them in Howling Fyjord. It wouldn't sit well with the majority of either of the fanbases and I know this isn't easily accepted by you, but you have to understand and just accept that their are many more night elf fans who want the night elves to remain on Kalimdor and Blizzard is seemingly listening to us (given the return to Hyjal after the meeting with Anduin went sour.)
The Forsaken are also, seemingly making a return to Lordaeron soon, which is necessary.

There's definitely been miscommunication then. Because

1. Building a great city, putting them in the broken isles or Suramar as a capital - those things are not robbing any identity of them, in the broken isles Val'Sharah and crimson thicket forest exist, in Kalimdor Ashenvale and Feralas forest exist, druids will continue to exist even if a great Zin'Azshari like city is built or they move into Suramar, shared or as conquerors.

2. I haven't disagreed with Darkshore being a possible location, I've just mentioned the Broken isles is better. Darkshore could be used, historically the broken isles has much more there and for every Night elf group, Darkshore only pertains to recent events, and while it's nice for that zone to finally have some importance, - the significance of the birthplace of druidism, the birth place of the first rebellion to Azshara, the capital of the order of Elune and home city of the Darnassian heroes, the fabled Black Rook Hold where the resistance took it's final form, and forged the group that would save the world, the Vault of the fabled Warden group and the legendary Moonguard stronghold have far older and more powerful significance than Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale and even Hyjal which was a wild god sacred place, but they've since moved to Val'Sharah.

Darkshore doesn't have much history that we know of compared to Val'Sharah or Suramar, even Azsuna has much more lore than Darkshore.. what do you know about Bashal'aran? or Ameth'aran? Or Mathystra? compared to say Farondale or Nar'thalas? Falanaar or the Cathedral of Eternal Night?

It''s okay for these zones to be important, and no one is denying the night elves' right to them or need for conquest - even if I'm on the team that says - make the broken isles the new home then launch conquest campaigns to get the rest of Kalimdor back, I am clearly for taking them - even if I feel that a new capital and home simply has a better designed location.

And when you say listening to us, I am aware you are a horde fan that is pushing night elves away from being established on the broken isles, I am also aware surprisingly few people know much about them, ALL of us want Kalimdor back because of how it was taken, not because we feel it is more suitable than the broken isles. So when you say listening to us - I wonder if blizzard know the full dynamics involved.

[Tanaria]

There's definitely been miscommunication then. Because

1. Building a great city, putting them in the broken isles or Suramar as a capital - those things are not robbing any identity of them, in the broken isles Val'Sharah and crimson thicket forest exist, in Kalimdor Ashenvale and Feralas forest exist, druids will continue to exist even if a great Zin'Azshari like city is built or they move into Suramar, shared or as conquerors.

2. I haven't disagreed with Darkshore being a possible location, I've just mentioned the Broken isles is better. Darkshore could be used, historically the broken isles has much more there and for every Night elf group, Darkshore only pertains to recent events, and while it's nice for that zone to finally have some importance, - the significance of the birthplace of druidism, the birth place of the first rebellion to Azshara, the capital of the order of Elune and home city of the Darnassian heroes, the fabled Black Rook Hold where the resistance took it's final form, and forged the group that would save the world, the Vault of the fabled Warden group and the legendary Moonguard stronghold have far older and more powerful significance than Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale and even Hyjal which was a wild god sacred place, but they've since moved to Val'Sharah.

Darkshore doesn't have much history that we know of compared to Val'Sharah or Suramar, even Azsuna has much more lore than Darkshore.. what do you know about Bashal'aran? or Ameth'aran? Or Mathystra? compared to say Farondale or Nar'thalas? Falanaar or the Cathedral of Eternal Night?

It''s okay for these zones to be important, and no one is denying the night elves' right to them or need for conquest - even if I'm on the team that says - make the broken isles the new home then launch conquest campaigns to get the rest of Kalimdor back, I am clearly for taking them - even if I feel that a new capital and home simply has a better designed location.

And when you say listening to us, I am aware you are a horde fan that is pushing night elves away from being established on the broken isles, I am also aware surprisingly few people know much about them, ALL of us want Kalimdor back because of how it was taken, not because we feel it is more suitable than the broken isles. So when you say listening to us - I wonder if blizzard know the full dynamics involved.

But this is your opinion on the Broken Isles, being better.

To see the Night Elves being robbed of everything that made them epic in W3 and to know that they are no longer dwelling around Ashenvale and Hyjal...it upsets me. I couldn't play W3 again, knowing that Tyrande, Shandris and their forces have actively left Ashenvale for the Horde and are now dwelling in a bunch of ruins and trying to capture a city and looking like idiots, whilst doing so.
The Night Elves are not in a position to be claiming Suramar, so let's forget that. Yes, we've got Azsuna and Val'Sharah, but neither are actual cities. Azsuna is half-shared with blue dragons and the last Highborne to have annoyed blue dragons got themselves killed.

We don't need long detailed stories about the locations on Kalimdor, for them to be rebuilt. I mean, we only know so much about Dire Maul and yet the Estulan school were all in favor of rebuilding that.
The fact that the Darkshore ruins can be rebuilt, intertwined with what you like (Highborne/Arcane stuff) and with what I like (Sentinels, Druids, Wardens), is something that Blizzard should take heed of.
Again, I go back to the recent lore with Tyrande leaving for Hyjal. If this is the direction Blizzard want to take, then I have to support it. Yes, Hyjal doesn't represent the "Highborne" city features that you like, but you can't have it all. So many races have features that are not expanded upon, or might have appeared briefly but we haven't seen anything from them in some time.

Examples are:
Blood Elf Warlocks
Human Warlocks
Human Hunters
Forsaken Mages
Dwarf Rogues

I'd love to see a group of Silvermoon's Elite Warlocks and Felweavers, but that's unlikely to happen.
Again, we also need to be practical. The Night Elves are not in any position to be taking from another race. They just aren't. Sensible options would be what they've gained back in BFA - those being Darkshore or Hyjal.

[ravenmoon]

But this is your opinion on the Broken Isles, being better.

To see the Night Elves being robbed of everything that made them epic in W3 and to know that they are no longer dwelling around Ashenvale and Hyjal...it upsets me. I couldn't play W3 again, knowing that Tyrande, Shandris and their forces have actively left Ashenvale for the Horde and are now dwelling in a bunch of ruins and trying to capture a city and looking like idiots, whilst doing so.
The Night Elves are not in a position to be claiming Suramar, so let's forget that. Yes, we've got Azsuna and Val'Sharah, but neither are actual cities. Azsuna is half-shared with blue dragons and the last Highborne to have annoyed blue dragons got themselves killed.

We don't need long detailed stories about the locations on Kalimdor, for them to be rebuilt. I mean, we only know so much about Dire Maul and yet the Estulan school were all in favor of rebuilding that.
The fact that the Darkshore ruins can be rebuilt, intertwined with what you like (Highborne/Arcane stuff) and with what I like (Sentinels, Druids, Wardens), is something that Blizzard should take heed of.
Again, I go back to the recent lore with Tyrande leaving for Hyjal. If this is the direction Blizzard want to take, then I have to support it. Yes, Hyjal doesn't represent the "Highborne" city features that you like, but you can't have it all. So many races have features that are not expanded upon, or might have appeared briefly but we haven't seen anything from them in some time.

Examples are:
Blood Elf Warlocks
Human Warlocks
Human Hunters
Forsaken Mages
Dwarf Rogues

I'd love to see a group of Silvermoon's Elite Warlocks and Felweavers, but that's unlikely to happen.
Again, we also need to be practical. The Night Elves are not in any position to be taking from another race. They just aren't. Sensible options would be what they've gained back in BFA - those being Darkshore or Hyjal.

Yes, it is my opinion it is better, Mace pretty much summed up some very good reasons why this is better, and I don't disagree wtih you that Darkshore could work, I just think there are better and nicer places for night elves that are more relevant and better designed.. that's all.

Being established elsewhhere doesn't remove Dark shore either.

And yes Hyjal can be used even if it doens't have something for Highborne, but do you now understand why the broken isles is better? because it has something for highborne and druids, and demon hunters, wardens, sentinels, Moonguard, Priestesses - its got it all , in closee proximity in smaller areas that are maore manageable for smaller night elf race with enough space to work about.

[Tanaria]

Yes, it is my opinion it is better, Mace pretty much summed up some very good reasons why this is better, and I don't disagree wtih you that Darkshore could work, I just think there are better and nicer places for night elves that are more relevant and better designed.. that's all.

Being established elsewhhere doesn't remove Dark shore either.

And yes Hyjal can be used even if it doens't have something for Highborne, but do you now understand why the broken isles is better? because it has something for highborne and druids, and demon hunters, wardens, sentinels, Moonguard, Priestesses - its got it all , in closee proximity in smaller areas that are maore manageable for smaller night elf race with enough space to work about.

But it's a bit tough isn't it. Like I say, Stormwind doesn't have a core representation of Hunters or Warlocks.
Silvermoon's Warlocks are a thing of the past, seemingly.

Blizzard needs to capitalize on the story they are seemingly telling, with Tyrande and Shandris returning to Hyjal. That's good. We need more of this. Ashenvale, Hyjal, Darkshore and Feralas also provide you with exactly what you want. They can be restored and rebuilt, if we are indeed going to see a 10 year time-hop after we get back from the Shadowlands.
Sometimes, I feel that you two are trying to control what night elf fans are allowed to like. If we don't like night elf mages, then we don't like the night elf race, period. That's simply not the case. I and many others, like W3 Night Elves and aren't opinions should be just as heard as anybody else's. Just because we don't like one later addition (night elf mages) doesn't mean our voices should be silenced. I don't like blood elf rogues and the whole "Pathstalker" idea, but that doesn't mean I hate blood elves.

The Broken Isles is also HMT, Blue Dragons, Nightborne and Vrykul.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

@Strippling , @MyWholeLifeIsThunder. @Pheraz, @Alanar

A very important read. I don't see the night elves never being in a city, there are some who really do that and there is a need and place for cities even amongst night elves. And many who don't [it's common sense, the lore and what we are shown backs this up.]

• I don't think Night elves would use a forest to do a city or do a city of trees/forests - it's not how the forest half of them do things.
• I think night elves would want to rebuild the ancient ruins, and foundations destroyed by evil and hubris - the ancient wonders that were good and wonderful - the cities and civilization weren't evil, and the ruins were shunned for they were a reminder of the pride and folly that brought evil and ruin to something so loved and amazing - it isn't a rejection of civilization.
• I think night elves will use ruins locations, non-forest areas, wastelands, grasslands, to make their cities, i.e those of them who need/want them, they will make them very beautiful like Suramar and Zin'azsahri, they will be beautiful, not using trees or living things - but stones and marble, pearls, metals, jewels and glass, and they will beautify them with growing nature trees and plants with parks and garden, fines interwoven in the stone - marrying nature with arcane, natural with elf-made thing - for this is the completeness of life, two halves complimenting themselves. There isn't a better way to make barren places, wasteleands and ruins nice again - while fulfilling needs of people.
• It isn't only nature and nothing else night elves desire(like in the Emerald dreams the druids work in and love so much) - that's getting them wrong. It is nature also able to work with humanoids who have different requirements and don't all want undisturbed nature - the world can accommodate both, was meant for animals and the wild and for humanoids - and the two must be in balance and harmony. The night elven druid philosophy side of the race promotes, and shows and supports this harmony. Whether in city locations with lots of elves or in the forest setting with very few elves.

I have already read that, and honestly, if Ravenmoon wants to make points for your argument, do so in a concise manner. This verbosity is just not conductive to any discussion. Most people give up, and I am honestly frustrated to read paragraph after paragraph of fluff that doesn't say anything necessary.

To the actual points I'm addressing:

-I don't think NE's wouldn't make another city; I just doubt they would make a city closer to the classical imperial aesthetic -all that 10k old stuff- Of ALL their new settlements, only the Temple of Elune and adjacent areas of Darnassus evoked something closer to that aesthetic (and even so it was less elaborate) 2/3 of Darnassus where built on the "modern" druidic style (Norse lodge/pagoda inspired)-

-So far, Night Elves haven't rebuild over any empire ruins. Why would they know? Sure you might want them to, but that runs parallel to anything they have actually done. All NE settlements we have seen have been on new foundations. I think there's a STRONG implication of NE's separating themselves from their imperial past, based on, well EVERYTHING they have done since the Sundering.

-It's a false dichotomy to say "it's either all nature or highborne buildings!". Just no, that we call their modern architectural style "druidic" doesn't mean it's just for druids; Lor'danel, Auberdine, Astranaar; they were all settlements that were literally that, settlements, that used that architectural style, because that's their main aesthetic now! Sure it comes from druidic origins, but it's so evidently now part of their cultural identity as a whole. Arcanism lead to the Imperial style in much the same way, but it's influence, it doesn't mean they are inseparable. It's just how mainstream philosophies influence the culture as a whole. It certainly does not mean all night elves are druids

Please understand the Night ELves

• They don't believe that humanoids like elves don't have the right to be numerous and that humanoids wouldn't have specific greater needs, cities are invented so that life can support these humanoids in large numbers without then messing up nature all over the place with farms and houses popping up destroying or disrupting most forest land. Even if they don't mean to, humanoid life disrupts the purity of wild undisturbed nature, but there is a place for both - huamonids and nature, and night elves recognise this, and a balance for the two. The druids boost the nature bit, the rest of the night elves the place of the humanoids producing a truly beautiful enhanced and world in harmony.

Don't confuse the lack of cities during the Long vigil to mean night elves opposed them, there was a lack of cities for 2 main reasons:

1. A necessary ban on the arcane to prevent the Legion's return
2. The requirements of the Long Vigil task which was constant patrolling and military operation for the kaldorei and working in nature if you were a druid.

It was an isolation period whose function negated he need for congregating, building trade, family, progressing the life of a people or any of the things life use to be about - you know just living? Life was now soley about preventing the Legions return - and to do that meant guarding the well, patrolling the borders, hunting anyone who might have the means to make it happen or discover the well. It was not life as usually. So separate the two and let those in cities be in harmony with the land and nature, and let those in the forest be in harmony with

• Blizzard could ignore all of this, all their previous lore and change their entire mind about everything they've written the night elves to be about and mean. They are within their right to do so as bad as ithat may be. They can reshape them into full forest elves, evil elves, arcane elves or multiply more groups - this is there product and choice

You have to know that I know this. And if they do this, make them full forest elves or give them a tree city, I'll disagree with that move and comment I feel it was not the best way to go, just like I felt making the night elves so weak and too human like during wow wasn't the right way to go, just like I felt not showing the aggressive side to them more often was not good, too slow on bringing back the arcane half and showing it was also not good (but at least they did that) and showing too little of night elves in game, mostly in forests and instead leaving most of their activity and involvements to books.

- these are three things I don't agree with them, but they are minor and can be changed. Just like some don't agree with them bringing back the Highborne even if I'm quite sure those who think so don't understand what the night elves are supposed to be i.e. they're not supposed to be 100% forest elves, which means the other sides have to be seen currently - and Nightborne and Thalassians are not a replacements but rather are a different operation (Thalassians as a whole) and a small focus off shoot group (Nightborne)

And again, my issue is NOT that Night Elves shouldn't build cities; I DO think they should. What I have been saying ALL THIS TIME is that the Classical Imperial Aesthetic simply does not reflect them as a people and that Modern Druidic is their aesthetic now. Ergo, if they built built a city, given all we know, it SHOULD be on that Modern Druidic style, with some throwbacks here and there -pretty much like how Darnassus was built-

The Modern Druidic Aesthetic -and again, I'm referring to this as the current aesthetic of druidic origins, which through time has evidently become their cultural norm- with it's norse influence, its pagoda like roofing, is undoubtedly the aesthetic mainstream of the Night Elves.

Other points

-I'm totally okay, and in fact, want to, for Highborne to reclaim some old ruins and resettle. While the mainstream of modern Kaldorei Culture has a druidic phylosophy, evidently it doesn't mean all of them do since the Highborne rejoined in Cata; They have their own culture, and I would love to see those differences reflected, and them reclaiming one of their old cities would be perfect. Not all Night Elf settlements have to be the same; the existence of a cultural mainstream is not the same than a cultural hegemony

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, it is my opinion it is better, Mace pretty much summed up some very good reasons why this is better, and I don't disagree wtih you that Darkshore could work, I just think there are better and nicer places for night elves that are more relevant and better designed.. that's all.

Being established elsewhhere doesn't remove Dark shore either.

And yes Hyjal can be used even if it doens't have something for Highborne, but do you now understand why the broken isles is better? because it has something for highborne and druids, and demon hunters, wardens, sentinels, Moonguard, Priestesses - its got it all , in closee proximity in smaller areas that are maore manageable for smaller night elf race with enough space to work about.

How does it make any actual sense for the Night Elves to establish their new main city REMOVED from their territory? Like, how?

If they lost Darkshore and Northern Kalimdor was left on disarray, then I would be more into the Broken Isles idea. But from an in universe perspective, when they have JUST reclaimed Darkshore, it makes no sense whatsoever to build their new seat of power so far away for their holdings.

I would love to see the Highborne -as part of the Night Elves- reclaim parts of Aszuna- We already have the implication that Farondis and his ghost peeps joined the alliance, and it would be a nice step forward if the remaining Highborne came together to revitalize Aszuna.

[yana]

You kidding, wright?

Shadow is the most abnoxious form of magic in NElf lore, lorewise, there isn't a single NElf shadow priest, and yes, this statment came from Blizzard themselves. The ones that used shadow magic were the Satyr, and the magic shifted them so much, that they no longer Kaldorei. NElfs became irracional in the presence of shadow magic, they always slay shadow magic users, and that is what we see in Ashenvale, were they go brainless whit the presence of the Satyr, and they do it without any pity or remorse. Ilidian is an exception, because he actually only started using shadow magic after he consumed the Skull of Gul'dan (he got all the memories of Gul'dan when he did that).

I could admit elemental magic however. NElfs always tolerated Furbulgs, and those, are mostly shamanistic. There could have been some NElfs learning that kind of magic in the past 10k years, but not many, and they would wield such magic in secrecy for sure.

tyrande uses a lot of shadow magic recently, the sisters of the moon battle, the wardens have a stapple on that magic in multiple forms of media (maiev in hots and heartstone), darkness is absolutly one of their themes.

Also whatever with the city, but the architecture shouldn't be copy paste from 10 k years ago. incorporate modern shapes that are more akin to east asian palaces alongside the greek or even gothic aesthetic in the vault of the wardens, but modernized.\
Mix it together and create something new and fresh
So plenty of trees and wood on the inside as the bones, plenty of enourmous trees inside that blend with the structure, underground compounds with lakes.

[ravenmoon]

How does it make any actual sense for the Night Elves to establish their new main city REMOVED from their territory? Like, how?

The broken isles is their territory too. And I'm not saying abandon it

If they lost Darkshore and Northern Kalimdor was left on disarray, then I would be more into the Broken Isles idea. But from an in universe perspective, when they have JUST reclaimed Darkshore, it makes no sense whatsoever to build their new seat of power so far away for their holdings.

It could be the zone they launch their military campaign to reclaim the rest of Kalimdor.

So Civilians, and main community is in Broken Isles a place of stability, hey can be secure, and from their they launch their campaign.

I would love to see the Highborne -as part of the Night Elves- reclaim parts of Aszuna- We already have the implication that Farondis and his ghost peeps joined the alliance, and it would be a nice step forward if the remaining Highborne came together to revitalize Aszuna.

I would love that too <3

Highborne stuff is what the marble stuff is often refereed too in Azsuna. I'd really love to see that side develop as part of the night elf playable faction develop so we have both, the urban Highborne types with their beautiful kaldorei buildings and the forest types with their nature wonder forests and reserves.

I really want all the aspects of the night elves restored in them, and I know this is happening, but in the Darnassiasn the Highborne groups do appear smaller and have not been shown to do anything significant as a group no like powerful spells or rebuilding stuff - so would really like to see that.

I want it to be like Legion, where we saw druid stuff, highborne stuff, warden, warrior, hunter , Moonguard etc

[Tuor]

tyrande uses a lot of shadow magic recently, the sisters of the moon battle, the wardens have a stapple on that magic in multiple forms of media (maiev in hots and heartstone), darkness is absolutly one of their themes.

Except its not, even Blizzard confirmed that long ago... They might have changed their mind since then.

Also whatever with the city, but the architecture shouldn't be copy paste from 10 k years ago. incorporate modern shapes that are more akin to east asian palaces alongside the greek or even gothic aesthetic in the vault of the wardens, but modernized.\
Mix it together and create something new and fresh
So plenty of trees and wood on the inside as the bones, plenty of enourmous trees inside that blend with the structure, underground compounds with lakes.

For me, i would rebuild Darnassus, but we all know that Blizzard started hating main cities and they shifting away from that model. Why even build a brand new city for NElfs, if it would be desert in a blink of eyes?
But if they are to make a new city for NElfs, i would something alongside Darnassus, but better, more in the style of Lothlorien in LoTR, and city at the top of the trees, anyway, they most likely don't have much time to build the complex cities Mace and Ravenmon wish... Also, there is a loophole hint hidded. They only builded Darnassus after they defeated the Legion, so were have they lived for 10k years long? In the bushes? Well that is actually a possibility, but i think they might have some sort of hidden place to rest.

[Mace]

To the actual points I'm addressing:

-I don't think NE's wouldn't make another city; I just doubt they would make a city closer to the classical imperial aesthetic -all that 10k old stuff- Of ALL their new settlements, only the Temple of Elune and adjacent areas of Darnassus evoked something closer to that aesthetic (and even so it was less elaborate) 2/3 of Darnassus where built on the "modern" druidic style (Norse lodge/pagoda inspired)-

I think they would make cities like the pre-sundering ones now. Darnassus was first attempt in 10k years just after isolation ends, and without Highborne and it was mostly like a pre-sundering city, and that was the early days after isolation - 20 years since, arcane is back, many more night elven groups returning, many issues resolved too, city folk would want beautiful cities in the graceful elven way they build things for cities.

I doubt they have any new architecture either - the rural stuff was around in pre-sundering times in rural areas, and the city stuff they use in Darnassus too, so I don't see why they would build more rural style buildings - and I think the building types would be based on the city size and function. What was built with wood in Darnassus would be built with marble - However I think a new city would actually be a rebuilt ruin - it makes the most sense.

-So far, Night Elves haven't rebuild over any empire ruins. Why would they know? Sure you might want them to, but that runs parallel to anything they have actually done. All NE settlements we have seen have been on new foundations. I think there's a STRONG implication of NE's separating themselves from their imperial past, based on, well EVERYTHING they have done since the Sundering.

They might not, up to devs - although they and the draenei are rebuilding the city ruins in Forest song together - but it would probably be a fusing of Nelf an draenei.

Ruins are good locations to build cities, because they already spaces that have cities on them, no need to remove trees etc for cities by doing this. This is also why non-forest regions are good - Darkshore is one such region, Azsuna is another, most of Suramar too (but then you might as well live in Suramar city), Naz'jatar is good too (providing you can raise it to the surface), Desolace is also good place. There is Eldre'thalas, I won't recommend Hyjal although it has the open spaces you need now after Firelands Cata stuff - they can build a city around the well and tree.

-It's a false dichotomy to say "it's either all nature or highborne buildings!". Just no, that we call their modern architectural style "druidic" doesn't mean it's just for druids; Lor'danel, Auberdine, Astranaar; they were all settlements that were literally that, settlements, that used that architectural style, because that's their main aesthetic now! Sure it comes from druidic origins, but it's so evidently now part of their cultural identity as a whole. Arcanism lead to the Imperial style in much the same way, but it's influence, it doesn't mean they are inseparable. It's just how mainstream philosophies influence the culture as a whole. It certainly does not mean all night elves are druids

I'm not presenting that dichotomy, I am specifically referring to rural buildings and city buildings. Lor'danel , Auberdine, Astrannar settlements have that rural architectural style, those are not the buildings the night elves use for cities. You have examples of what the night elves do for cities, you have these examples in Darnassus, Suramar, Eldre'thalas and Zin'Azshari - if it was 20 years ago or 10,000 year ago, we have no other examples of what night elves use for buildings in cities.

I acknowledge while blizzard can do a U-turn, I don't see why, the night elf city architecture is beautiful, it has a place today, just because you have rural architecture used a lot in the long vigil doesn't mean that this is makes them the more likely or better candidate for a night elf city. I think night elf cities should have the best of what the night elves have to offer.

And again, my issue is NOT that Night Elves shouldn't build cities; I DO think they should. What I have been saying ALL THIS TIME is that the Classical Imperial Aesthetic simply does not reflect them as a people and that Modern Druidic is their aesthetic now. Ergo, if they built built a city, given all we know, it SHOULD be on that Modern Druidic style, with some throwbacks here and there -pretty much like how Darnassus was built-

Okay, I disagree, basically you're saying that pre-sundering architecture doesn't fit the night elves, because it doesn't reflect the druidic theme and rural buildings. Can only mean you think this is more representative of the night elves than anything else, but then this is not the stuff for a city even if 80% of the night elves are like this (which they aren't it's more like 33%), and really it's not that percentage that woul live in cities but the other 20% (actually more like 66%) - and they would build city style buildings.

The group has expanded, operations increased. It's no longer just the priesthood now, It's Highborne, academies, this would bring in municipal buildings, embassies, class and institution buildings - Moonguard HQ, Warden, Sentinel, other temple and priest buildings - then ofc Highborne homes, research centres, astrology towers, academies, profession places. all the necessities of a nation and government would demand..and the night elves know this stuff well, have done it very well before and are intelligent so they will plan and build accordingly even if their numbers are small now.

So I think that's not correct on several fronts. I don't think it's druid types or druid culture that's been built for, and cities are centres for Highborne, priestly and government types, administration foreign affairs, - definitely not druid or druid themed base, so why should the buildings reflect the forest half of the night elves?

The Modern Druidic Aesthetic -and again, I'm referring to this as the current aesthetic of druidic origins, which through time has evidently become their cultural norm- with it's norse influence, its pagoda like roofing, is undoubtedly the aesthetic mainstream of the Night Elves.

Not all night elves are druids, and that sort of architecture is not city architecture or buildings, it uses wood, it's for rural areas, I don't think druids are going to be fine with using trees to make tons of homes for a city they're aware the race has the magic and capability to use other materials that aren't living - like metal, stone, pearls, jewels.

I also see no reason why non-druid night elves wouldn't want to use or build such great cities.

Other points

-I'm totally okay, and in fact, want to, for Highborne to reclaim some old ruins and resettle. While the mainstream of modern Kaldorei Culture has a druidic philosophy, evidently it doesn't mean all of them do since the Highborne rejoined in Cata; They have their own culture, and I would love to see those differences reflected, and them reclaiming one of their old cities would be perfect. Not all Night Elf settlements have to be the same; the existence of a cultural mainstream is not the same than a cultural hegemony

Firstly, they don't need Highborne culture to live in or build such cities. But I am not saying any different from what you say.

I don't think all night elf settlements would be the same either. I think forest settlements would have that druidic architecture, it won't be centralised, it would be exactly like we see in Val'Sharah and Ashenvale. Meanwhile there would be others like a great city, and smaller towns like Meredil or Tel'anor or smaller cities like Nar'thalas - and there would be some that have a mixture in areas where the two communities might converge somewhere. (I'm looking into the future here)

[Aresk]

A city in WoW is not just a city, and I think this is the most important thing to remember when talking about adding a new city to the game. A capital city has the following characteristics:

1) Very limited. We have 6 from Classic, 3 from TBC, 1 from WotLK, 0 from Cata (though several got improvements), technically 2 from Pandaria (though they don't feel like cities to me), 0 from WoD, 1 from Legion, 2 from BfA, and 1 from SL. That's sixteen cities across nine major versions of the game, and twelve are divided between the factions, giving each faction a total of 10.
2) Identifies where a group is secure. Stormwind is in the kingdom of Azeroth (and has influenced the change of the name to cause less confusion when they gave the name to the whole world). Shattrath is in the heart of Outland. The shrines are in the Vale at the heart of the pandaren lands.
3) Provides an overview of the people that live there. Ironforge features the Hall of Explorers, which has heavily influenced most dwarven plots in recent expansions. Thunder Bluff has the rises dedicated to their shamanistic, druidic, and martial roots.
4) Captures the aesthetic of the people. Orgrimmar is covered in spikes. The Exodar is carved out of giant crystal. Dalaran has majestic spires.

If the night elves (as a playable faction) are given a new city (which may need to go to the gnomes first Alliance side, given how long they've been waiting, or worgen after that), they'll likely only have one, and thus it needs to capitalize on the whole faction.

The night elves have fortified northern Kalimdor. They continue to fight for their lands in BfA after the Legion threat has been repelled a third time and their previous city destroyed. Meanwhile, all efforts performed on the Broken Isles after the Broken Shore event (which the NE weren't even at) were performed on behalf of the order halls and not the night elf faction at all. For this reason, it makes the most sense to place any new Night Elf city in Kalimdor.

Darnassus featured several terraces representing the following aspects of Night Elf society: Warrior's Terrace (the Sentinels), the Temple Gardens (a hub of the city and meditation garden), the Temple of the Moon (Sisters of Elune, government, religion, and the Highborne), the Craftsmen's and Tradesmen's Terraces (professions and commerce respectively), the Cenarion Encave (druids), and the Howling Oak (worgen allies). Assuming the Worgen do not have their own city, all of these should be captured in any new city of the Night Elves. I would also add that moving the Highborne out of the Temple and into their own area seems a reasonable addition, though apparently one that Blizzard didn't think was worth adding during the Cataclysm revamp when the mages became playable.

In terms of aesthetics, we know that the night elves prefer building with wood, including living trees. The Howling Oak addition is evidence of this, particularly given that it was added after mages had rejoined Darnassus. Buildings should be fairly open (similar to what we've seen throughout the Craftsmen's, Tradesmen's, and Warrior terraces), and there should be lots of trees, "natural" pools (as opposed to clear-cut canals), and purple.

While Suramar City or something similar is within the Night Elves' capabilities, it fails the above criteria for a playable faction city. I could easily see some neutral "city" setup similar to Light's Hope Chapel, Thunder Totem, Gadgetzan, or number of other settlements that aren't proper capital cities in WoW.

[Beloren]

I'm a bit torn here.

On the one hand I absolutely love the artstyle and lore about the high borne and those Greek inspired architecture and those arrogant elves. Really.
On the other hand I always felt that night elves could go more all out on that wood guerilla elves and that they need to get a proper city which is completely made out of trees and really nocturnal with thousands of whisps flying around.
Even though I loved starting as a night elf every time, I think the whole teldrassil idea was wrong. Instead of cities on a giant tree, they need a giant city made of many trees
But a touch of high borne and Elune moon priestess is absolutely right

I think the point they're making is night elf druids won't sacrifice or distort so many trees for homes, the druid life and it's materials are not city living or city home stuff. It's actually a good point.

A good proportion of the night elves also aren't tree folk druid types even though that dominates the culture - they wouldn't want to literally live in a tree - Teldrassil had the right idea build a city in the boughs of a colossal tree - that fits much better. But it's un-necessary too - you can have one part of the culture in forests de-centralised purely concerned with nature, and the other part that do cities where you experience the civilization side of the culture - you would expect night elves to have both.

- - - Updated - - -

I have already read that, and honestly, if Ravenmoon wants to make points for your argument, do so in a concise manner. This verbosity is just not conductive to any discussion. Most people give up, and I am honestly frustrated to read paragraph after paragraph of fluff that doesn't say anything necessary.

To the actual points I'm addressing:

-I don't think NE's wouldn't make another city; I just doubt they would make a city closer to the classical imperial aesthetic -all that 10k old stuff- Of ALL their new settlements, only the Temple of Elune and adjacent areas of Darnassus evoked something closer to that aesthetic (and even so it was less elaborate) 2/3 of Darnassus where built on the "modern" druidic style (Norse lodge/pagoda inspired)-

Not if it's the Highborne that are doing the city - they would definitely build everything in the most beautiful version possible, and the priests would want great ornate temples as edifices to Elune. Why would a druid want to live in a city anyway? It's a fair point. But they would help build one, and decorate with gardens , parks all over the place - fuse stone and nature together - make sure the city types don't forget nature and have a taste of it - but I can definitely see them not wanting any tree harmed in the process or settling there.

Govrenment types,profession types, Highborne type and priest types in cities = pre-sundering architecture

Druid types, hunter types, NElves too use to the country and having no desire to live with/near others - in forests. = forest tree homes and odd small type towns.

[Mace]

Darnassus featured several terraces representing the following aspects of Night Elf society: Warrior's Terrace (the Sentinels), the Temple Gardens (a hub of the city and meditation garden), the Temple of the Moon (Sisters of Elune, government, religion, and the Highborne), the Craftsmen's and Tradesmen's Terraces (professions and commerce respectively), the Cenarion Encave (druids), and the Howling Oak (worgen allies). Assuming the Worgen do not have their own city, all of these should be captured in any new city of the Night Elves. I would also add that moving the Highborne out of the Temple and into their own area seems a reasonable addition, though apparently one that Blizzard didn't think was worth adding during the Cataclysm revamp when the mages became playable.

In terms of aesthetics, we know that the night elves prefer building with wood, including living trees. The Howling Oak addition is evidence of this, particularly given that it was added after mages had rejoined Darnassus. Buildings should be fairly open (similar to what we've seen throughout the Craftsmen's, Tradesmen's, and Warrior terraces), and there should be lots of trees, "natural" pools (as opposed to clear-cut canals), and purple.

While Suramar City or something similar is within the Night Elves' capabilities, it fails the above criteria for a playable faction city. I could easily see some neutral "city" setup similar to Light's Hope Chapel, Thunder Totem, Gadgetzan, or number of other settlements that aren't proper capital cities in WoW.

I think wood is used because it' the most readily available resource in the stuff wee see, without the highboren and arcane magic, it was too much to do the craftsman homes in another material. I think the druids would prefer trees not be used when magic is now available to use other material.

I think with the Highborne return, a new city would have craftsman shops, homes and other essentials like AH houses etc all in marble and designed by the style people. You'd leave them to do this, it's what they are great at.

Finally, they would plan well, they'll need academies, places for more groups, like Moonguard, Wardens, night warriors, not to mention courts, and government buildings that aren't temples - they're now dealing with lots of races, complex situations. Trade - banks and businesses - craft is important, resource is a treasure - priests and druids aren't the governing types, but Highborne are, their nation would be better governed for the current age with all their facets involved.


This is why I feel a new city would not have a single wooden building, would have beautiful stylish pre-sundering type buildings we see in Suramar or Zin'Azsahri warbringers, and would be full of gardens and parks too, lakes and that would be the nature intermingling with everything else.

I also think that it's a great idea, because these styles are amazing - I can't imagine why you would use the far more crude and simple rural/settlement/base camp type buildings for a city - even if your city uses wood.

[Strippling]

I have no issue with night elves building a city per se, it's more that I don't think culturally they would build a city that resembles Suramar or Zin'Aszhari. There is a reason why the current night elves disconnected themselves from those groups and went on to become more "forest elves". They shunned the notion of "highborne" and the use of arcane. They eventually became more of an amazonian group who became one with nature (but aren't exclusively druids). I could see them building a city, but I don't think it would fit thematically to have that city look like the highborne cities we know of. There may be some architecture that resembles highborne architecture, but for the most part I imagine the city would be not too far off what Darnassus was like. There is a reason they built Darnassus to look how it does, it's the style they have culturally adopted. Making a city more "highborne" wouldn't be true to who they are.

Someone mentioned the idea of an amazonian style city, I personally think that would be an awesome avenue to explore. A city not just built in a tree, but a city that is one with the forest. There could be moonwells and different districts showcasing their varying groups (such as a druid district, warden district, priestess district) but all these districts would be tied under a common naturistic theme. To me at least that's how I perceive their future city should be. They aren't the highborne, they are the night elves... why make a city focusing on something they are not and something they forsook?

[Mace]

I think the point they're making is night elf druids won't sacrifice or distort so many trees for homes, the druid life and it's materials are not city living or city home stuff. It's actually a good point.

A good proportion of the night elves also aren't tree folk druid types even though that dominates the culture - they wouldn't want to literally live in a tree - Teldrassil had the right idea build a city in the boughs of a colossal tree - that fits much better. But it's un-necessary too - you can have one part of the culture in forests de-centralised purely concerned with nature, and the other part that do cities where you experience the civilization side of the culture - you would expect night elves to have both.

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Not if it's the Highborne that are doing the city - they would definitely build everything in the most beautiful version possible, and the priests would want great ornate temples as edifices to Elune. Why would a druid want to live in a city anyway? It's a fair point. But they would help build one, and decorate with gardens , parks all over the place - fuse stone and nature together - make sure the city types don't forget nature and have a taste of it - but I can definitely see them not wanting any tree harmed in the process or settling there.

Govrenment types,profession types, Highborne type and priest types in cities = pre-sundering architecture

Druid types, hunter types, NElves too use to the country and having no desire to live with/near others - in forests. = forest tree homes and odd small type towns.

Yes, yes, yes - this is what we're trying to say, Highborne are about and night elves definitely do love the wondrous old stuff too - there is no good reason why they wouldn't or why blizzard shouldn't use the cool stuff for them.

Like Aldrassil type buildings? Auberdeine and Lor'danel types? Astrannar types? you will get those in the forest like Lorlathil in Val'Sharah
Like pre-sundering stuff you see in Warbringers? You get that in night elf cities and highborne towns like Tel'anor

You get to have both depending on whether you're in the forests or in the city zones. Most races actually have different architectures for rural and city spots.