what is the stupidest thing to have ever happened in wow's lore

[Lord Pebbleton]

no
wrath was generally positive, MoP many thought cata was worse (by mop end, mop launch is one of worst launch in wow)
the idea that 'current exp is worse' never happened, legion was never considered worst during any time in its lifetime, wod was considered best pre 6.1, while Cata was still considered worse than MoP during MoP era (specially after 5.2)
BFA compete with WoD in term of WoD sh8ttiness, sometimes WoD wins other BFA wins, however no one argue that both exp are the worst in wow history
Honestly even now I'm not sure which is worse, BFA has lot of content but class itself is sh8t, while WoD had an entire patch added a selfie cam, and a raid that was tested in beta

I was big on the forums up until a few months into BfA and I have always seen a trend of dissing the current expansion. Admittedly Cata, WoD and BfA always got the major flak, but after WoD there was a surge of threads focused solely on it, at least on MMOChampion, and even if other expansions' flaws were discussed, the topic would quickly divert towards WoD.
Also a sizable group on the forums hated MoP's guts because of Garrosh's personality change and, most of all, because of the pandaren.
My point is that everyone has a preference (there are people that strongly dislike Legion as well), but I did notice a trend of WoD being considered the all-time low. I am going purely by experience here though.

As for which one is worst between BfA and WoD, I would still say WoD comes out on top of the turd pile. It is true that BfA has boring content and a mostly awful and pointless story that wasted great characters, but WoD had almost no content at all and they had to come up with excuses, retcons and concessions just to make the expansion exist lore-wise.
I think Mythic+ played a big role. It is not novelty content like it was in Legion anymore and some would argue that the concept is stale, but it adds tons of replayability to content you would never visit again by just adding modifiers and tweaks.

EDIT: You are not saying outright that BfA is bad/the worst, you are comparing it to WoD. You are kind of proving my point by comparing the current expansion to the perceived all-time low

[sam86]

Also a sizable group on the forums hated MoP's guts because of Garrosh's personality change and, most of all, because of the pandaren.

u talking about a specific point, not overall exp
MoP story is still sh8t, blizz themselves ignored the pandas in their own exp
Also mmo represents wow community, ppl who talk about 'silent minority' i have zero respect for them, while yes MMO isn't accurate it is still best representation of wow, more than blizz own extremely restricted moderated forums
I agree with u that right now WoD is the example of worst exp, BFA is a serious competitor, but i still consider that WoD is worse, just slightly (classes were better, not best, i consider best is wrath followed closely by MoP)

[ArthasFanboy]

i'd say he died in perfect time, if anything wow is really outdated by now
wow reached a status where u have at least 2 mounts for every single day of entire year, enough gear designs to transmog daily, and so on
i love wow, but i keep feeling now what? we need wow to end, wc4, then u can make wow2, specially since wow mmo format + 2 faction restriction is limiting story advance in actual direction instead of loops

Well, yes, when people kill him during wrath they probably didin´t think that either, but I think they could do even more with that brilliant character. Like imagine he was still alive during Legion and see him fight Kil´Jaeden his creator (not has a ally of us, more a fight between two bad guys like in the frozen throne). Or see more interaction of Arthas with Jaina or Sylvanas would be need (the hall of reflection encounter was nice, but not enough for me).

Note: Just read my name and you will understand the reason why I´m saying this

[Aresk]

u talking about a specific point, not overall exp
MoP story is still sh8t, blizz themselves ignored the pandas in their own exp
Also mmo represents wow community, ppl who talk about 'silent minority' i have zero respect for them, while yes MMO isn't accurate it is still best representation of wow, more than blizz own extremely restricted moderated forums
I agree with u that right now WoD is the example of worst exp, BFA is a serious competitor, but i still consider that WoD is worse, just slightly (classes were better, not best, i consider best is wrath followed closely by MoP)

I find it a little bizarre that you say Wrath had the best class designs, yet Cata, which is the expansion where classes were gutted, isn't the worst. But then I really, really dislike Cata (it had some decent parts, but most of it was pretty bad), and it has remained my least favorite expansion since it came out.

Well, yes, when people kill him during wrath they probably didin´t think that either, but I think they could do even more with that brilliant character. Like imagine he was still alive during Legion and see him fight Kil´Jaeden his creator (not has a ally of us, more a fight between two bad guys like in the frozen throne). Or see more interaction of Arthas with Jaina or Sylvanas would be need (the hall of reflection encounter was nice, but not enough for me).

Note: Just read my name and you will understand the reason why I´m saying this

Kil'jaeden turned Ner'zhul into the Lich King, but given that Arthas allegedly destroyed Ner'zhul sometime between TFT and WotLK, I'm not sure if Arthas would really care one way or the other about Kil'jaeden. After all, Arthas willingly became the Lich King at the end of TFT.

[TheFirstOnes]

BfA alone has a lot, a LOT of facepalm worthy moments.

"IT WAS ALL PART OF SYLVANAS' EVIL PLAN! WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT YET!"- Every NPC, Sylvanas fan, and Dev in BFA.

People with common sense: ...So...basically...you just want her to be a raid boss. :/

[sam86]

Well, yes, when people kill him during wrath they probably didin´t think that either, but I think they could do even more with that brilliant character. Like imagine he was still alive during Legion and see him fight Kil´Jaeden his creator (not has a ally of us, more a fight between two bad guys like in the frozen throne). Or see more interaction of Arthas with Jaina or Sylvanas would be need (the hall of reflection encounter was nice, but not enough for me).

Note: Just read my name and you will understand the reason why I´m saying this

I love Lich King, he is my current favorite, the best, used to be 3rd after Thrall and Illidan but blizz ruined both -.- (they still great, but wow had many crap additions to their usedtobe amazing stories)
So i'm worried what they would do for him in wow if he was still alive, blizz since wrath (also even pre-wrath had their problems) seems to screw their stories more than fix them, then came WoD era and seems current wow team flat out hates us and make bullsh8t non sense stories just for giggle, making official lore statements that serve nothing just to sh8t on us ppl who used to love lore and still memorize it by heart

I find it a little bizarre that you say Wrath had the best class designs, yet Cata, which is the expansion where classes were gutted, isn't the worst. But then I really, really dislike Cata (it had some decent parts, but most of it was pretty bad), and it has remained my least favorite expansion since it came out.

Because BFA easily dominate worst class design ever, nothing even close to it

"IT WAS ALL PART OF SYLVANAS' EVIL PLAN! WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT YET!"- Every NPC, Sylvanas fan, and Dev in BFA.

People with common sense: ...So...basically...you just want her to be a raid boss. :/

let's not forget part of her 'genius' plan was dying multiple times, without even knowing if she can be rezzed again or not, GENIUS

[Bisque]

Where to start... lol from the top of my head

1)All of WOD, any time alternate time lines, parallels worlds, time travel etc... is introduced , usually it is done poorly-WOD continued that trend

2) The raging hardon that blizz has for Sylvanas, at this point she is not even interesting and I don't care about her plan upon plan upon plans, "Did you know she was working against the VOID lords since Warcraft 3 and in fact she is a good character!" I fear blizz can or will never "write her off" or make her a raid boss and kill her because so much of WoW seems to revolve around her.

[Palapop]

Warlords of Draenor

[Soon-TM]

The raging hardon that blizz has for Sylvanas, at this point she is not even interesting and I don't care about her plan upon plan upon plans, "Did you know she was working against the VOID lords since Warcraft 3 and in fact she is a good character!" I fear blizz can or will never "write her off" or make her a raid boss and kill her because so much of WoW seems to revolve around her.

In a world where there is no shortage of Mary Sue's already, Danuser had the brilliant idea of turning a race leader into yet another one. But in an eVVuL version this time

[Aucald]

In a world where there is no shortage of Mary Sue's already, Danuser had the brilliant idea of turning a race leader into yet another one. But in an eVVuL version this time

Still not quite sure how Sylvanas of all people ranks as a "Sue" type character? She's failed pretty abysmally as of 8.2.5, losing the Horde's loyalty due to her own foolish pride - that's pretty much the opposite of a Sue characteristic.

[LemonDemonGirl]

The idea the De Other Side was created and is ruled by Mueh'zala, with Bwonsamdi serving as a Psychopomp under him

Like seriously, what the hell

I know it's still Alpha but it really upset me that they had to do that

[Zendhal The Black]

Still not quite sure how Sylvanas of all people ranks as a "Sue" type character? She's failed pretty abysmally as of 8.2.5, losing the Horde's loyalty due to her own foolish pride - that's pretty much the opposite of a Sue characteristic.

But it was her plan too

We just didn't know

[Aucald]

But it was her plan too

We just didn't know

In the Loyalist cutscene she basically admits it was an error on her part, stating the war ended "prematurely," before she wanted it to end in other words. Her planning with Azshara also didn't bear fruit as we defeated N'Zoth in Ny'alotha before he could even really do any damage to Azeroth. So she's now failed twice.

[Echeyakee]

Space ships. Like, seriously, what the fuck.

Travel between worlds made sense before. Even for a fantasy world with magic, it was a titanic task (pun intended). To get the orcs across, Guldan needed all of their Draenei prisoners to be sacrificed on one side, and the strongest mage alive, possessed by a fucking titan, on the other side as a beacon.

Turns out it was all for nothing, cause both Legion and Naaru, and who knows haw many more races, have fucking space ships that barely need magic to work and defy all laws of physics like it's nothing. Best thing they can be made out of shit and sticks, cause once again, a few demons and a soul engine is enough to ignore all laws of physics, regardless of forces involved.

[Soon-TM]

Space ships. Like, seriously, what the fuck.

Travel between worlds made sense before. Even for a fantasy world with magic, it was a titanic task (pun intended). To get the orcs across, Guldan needed all of their Draenei prisoners to be sacrificed on one side, and the strongest mage alive, possessed by a fucking titan, on the other side as a beacon.

Turns out it was all for nothing, cause both Legion and Naaru, and who knows haw many more races, have fucking space ships that barely need magic to work and defy all laws of physics like it's nothing. Best thing they can be made out of shit and sticks, cause once again, a few demons and a soul engine is enough to ignore all laws of physics, regardless of forces involved.

Also this. Legion basically threw away everything that made the Legion cool. Even in BC, the Tempest Keep (which was actually a ship) was just a machine which could replicate a mage portal, just in a much larger scale, and certainly not ad infinitum. But Legion was too close to World of Starcraft for my taste.

[RadasNoir]

In the Loyalist cutscene she basically admits it was an error on her part, stating the war ended "prematurely," before she wanted it to end in other words. Her planning with Azshara also didn't bear fruit as we defeated N'Zoth in Ny'alotha before he could even really do any damage to Azeroth. So she's now failed twice.

Even when things don't actually work out for her, she still suffers very, very minor setbacks. I'm assuming she wanted the war to continue on longer, and N'zoth to actually do some damage, so that she and the Jailor would have additional souls to empower them. However, they still have all of the souls of the people that did die during the course of BFA, and maybe even some of the souls of those lost even prior to that, depending on when the both of them started scheming.

Regardless of what her actual goal was with the war and N'zoth, it didn't effect her ability to destroy the Helm of Domination and tear a hole between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. The smug and smiling woman we saw fighting Bolvar certainly didn't look like she cared about any of her recent "failures".

And really, it's less about her actions during BFA, and more about that Shadowlands cinematic and the writers retconning some of her previous failures, that make her seem like a Villain Sue. It just feels like, whenever she's going to be on screen now, she's either going to dispatch any foes or problems facing her effortlessly, or even if she does seem to "fail", it'll turn out to be another minor setback or actually apart of her plan all along. Not even the players themselves are going to be immune. I'm still almost certain they are eventually going to reveal that she was actually a misunderstood anti-hero all this time (akin to what they did with Illidan, because they apparently love repeating the same story and character beats), so players either won't even get the chance to face her in a raid, or even if they do, she'll still somehow manage to enact her plan regardless.

[Aucald]

Even when things don't actually work out for her, she still suffers very, very minor setbacks. I'm assuming she wanted the war to continue on longer, and N'zoth to actually do some damage, so that she and the Jailor would have additional souls to empower them. However, they still have all of the souls of the people that did die during the course of BFA, and maybe even some of the souls of those lost even prior to that, depending on when the both of them started scheming.

She lost almost the entirety of the Horde as well as her place as the leader of one of Azeroth's superpowers - that's not a minor setback, it's about one of the largest setbacks one can actually have. She certainly did some damage, but she also lost the means by which she could do even more, now limited to what few supporters she has and having to work from the shadows as opposed to having the might of the Horde at her back.

Regardless of what her actual goal was with the war and N'zoth, it didn't effect her ability to destroy the Helm of Domination and tear a hole between Azeroth and the Shadowlands. The smug and smiling woman we saw fighting Bolvar certainly didn't look like she cared about any of her recent "failures".

An ability that pointedly isn't hers as a power being fed to her by a more powerful patron (the Jailer). This also isn't indicative of a Sue-type character, whose insane and/or unrealistic accomplishments should arise from their own prowess or proficiency.

And really, it's less about her actions during BFA, and more about that Shadowlands cinematic and the writers retconning some of her previous failures, that make her seem like a Villain Sue. It just feels like, whenever she's going to be on screen now, she's either going to dispatch any foes or problems facing her effortlessly, or even if she does seem to "fail", it'll turn out to be another minor setback or actually apart of her plan all along. Not even the players themselves are going to be immune. I'm still almost certain they are eventually going to reveal that she was actually a misunderstood anti-hero all this time (akin to what they did with Illidan, because they apparently love repeating the same story and character beats), so players either won't even get the chance to face her in a raid, or even if they do, she'll still somehow manage to enact her plan regardless.

Sylvanas likes to pretend her previous failures were "all part of the plan," but the reality of her plight belies this - and, again, being delusional (which Sylvanas is) also isn't a Sue-type character trait. Sues actually are as unrealistically hyper-competent as they appear within a given narrative, but Sylvanas is just deluded, attempting to internally recontexualize her losses and failures so as not to have to confront them or herself. Sylvanas has also joined readily with the identified greater scope villain, which pretty much sets her up for the long fall, and has turned both the Alliance and Horde against her to boot.

Will she somehow squeak out of this without facing final defeat? Maybe, I can't readily say; but the outlook isn't looking so hot for her.

[RadasNoir]

An ability that pointedly isn't hers as a power being fed to her by a more powerful patron (the Jailer). This also isn't indicative of a Sue-type character, whose insane and/or unrealistic accomplishments should arise from their own prowess or proficiency.

Didn't Blizzard say that Sylvanas isn't a minion, but an equal "partner-in-crime" with the Jailer? How could she be considered an equal if she relies almost entirely on him for her ability to one-shot orc warriors, or tear holes in the fabric of reality? Either Blizzard was talking nonsense about their own upcoming lore (always a possibility), or at least some of what she's done she did so mostly or all on her own. She may have needed the Jailer to teach her how to use that power initially, but if she is going to be considered his equal now, she must have surpassed his teachings.

It goes to follow then, if she has such power at her fingertips, the loss of the Horde and the death of N'zoth really were minor setbacks, when compared to what she and the Jailer are capable of.

[Yemkela]

There are multiple universes that apparently have the same version of the Legion - like, what?

I actually kinda like this one because it implies that there's a power that supersedes and consequently unites the splintered realities.

[Aucald]

Didn't Blizzard say that Sylvanas isn't a minion, but an equal "partner-in-crime" with the Jailer? How could she be considered an equal if she relies almost entirely on him for her ability to one-shot orc warriors, or tear holes in the fabric of reality? Either Blizzard was talking nonsense about their own upcoming lore (always a possibility), or at least some of what she's done she did so mostly or all on her own. She may have needed the Jailer to teach her how to use that power initially, but if she is going to be considered his equal now, she must have surpassed his teachings.

It goes to follow then, if she has such power at her fingertips, the loss of the Horde and the death of N'zoth really were minor setbacks, when compared to what she and the Jailer are capable of.

She's not a minion, but she is a dependent. The relationship between the Jailer and Sylvanas is a mutual one, he feeds her power and she feeds him souls and the anima therein. She's certainly *not* an equal, as the Jailer is practically a god-like being - whereas Sylvanas is just an empowered Banshee. She's also not personally powerful enough to stop the Horde or the Alliance, if that were the case she wouldn't have fled and hid after she outed herself at Orgrimmar.

I don't think Sylvanas is anywhere close in power to the Jailer, although she probably plans to topple him at some future point (plans which may or may not come to fruition depending on how the story goes).