The Last of Us Part II

[everydaygamer]

Yea, Nadine is cool. But she wasn't the lead. Abby is a lead and you play as her. Thats pretty refreshing/surprising.

My daughter has also never seen a woman portrayed like Abby and she is super into watching me play this game as a result.

Plus Nadine was honestly kind of ridiculous. She was portrayed as such an unstoppable force to the point that it was honestly hilarious watching Nathan and his brother constantly get their asses kicked when fighting her even when working together.

Thankfully Abby doesn't come across as anymore unstoppable than Joel did.

[Tech614]

Plus Nadine was honestly kind of ridiculous. She was portrayed as such an unstoppable force to the point that it was honestly hilarious watching Nathan and his brother constantly get their asses kicked when fighting her even when working together.

Thankfully Abby doesn't come across as anymore unstoppable than Joel did.

I mean, a special ops trained soldier probably would whoop 2 treasure hunter's asses quite easily. Add in the fact that Uncharted is over the top Indiana Jones style madness and it fits even more. The more ridiculous thing about Uncharted is that Nathan might as well be Doom guy with how unstoppable he is to random enemies, but that's just a game finding a way to be a game.

[everydaygamer]

I mean, a special ops trained soldier probably would whoop 2 treasure hunter's asses quite easily. Add in the fact that Uncharted is over the top Indiana Jones style madness and it fits even more. The more ridiculous thing about Uncharted is that Nathan might as well be Doom guy with how unstoppable he is to random enemies, but that's just a game finding a way to be a game.

Yeah, I get that she's specially trained but there is a limit to how far that can carry a person. You reach a point in the game where it becomes impossible to even view her as human.

Plus there is never any real payoff to your confrontations with her which doesn't help, you just fight her get your ass kicked and then she's gone.

[Gorsameth]

Abby is the female version of the stereotypical dude who is so overmuscled he has no neck, and I am so incredibly here for this. In part because it's a bit silly, but also because having more women who aren't functional barbie dolls in a sea of barbie dolls is a bit of fresh air.

While maybe a little exaggerated I think Abby's physic is one of the better portrayals of a female soldier in a rough post apocalyptic world.

[Tech614]

Yeah, I get that she's specially trained but there is a limit to how far that can carry a person. You reach a point in the game where it becomes impossible to even view her as human.

Plus there is never any real payoff to your confrontations with her which doesn't help, you just fight her get your ass kicked and then she's gone.

The payoff is The Lost Legacy, which was DLC for Uncharted 4 that became so large it became it's own game. Her character is fully realized there.

[Velshin]

Ya lev seems to be a bit shafted in that regard the game tells you abunch about them but you don’t actually get to deep into them as a character which seems like a shame, I’m sure people will disagree but it would have been nice if the part before they were captured was longer so they could have got deeper into him when there wasn’t abunch of pressing threats.

I agree, I also dislike the fact that both Owen and Mel got fleshed out after their deaths which made the impact of their death much weaker than it suppose to be.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I agree, I also dislike the fact that both Owen and Mel got fleshed out after their deaths which made the impact of their death much weaker than it suppose to be.

I feel like the story would have been better served if it swapped back and forth and not back to back so you could see the parallels better some of the characters you find of abbie I didn't even register at first as people ellie killed.

[SirCowdog]

I agree, I also dislike the fact that both Owen and Mel got fleshed out after their deaths which made the impact of their death much weaker than it suppose to be.

One of the videogame channels I watch on youtube described the disjointed nature of TLOU2's story progression as if "they gave a drugged chimpanzee a box knife and let it go crazy on their storyboard".

To be fair, he also said that the game would probably have been a LOT better if someone had QA'd the timeline and presentation of events. Many scenes would have made more sense, or had more impact if placed at different places in the story.

[Lindon]

This is not smart. Why would you even post something so flatly ignorant and lacking intellectual rigor?

Firstly, "revenge is bad" is not the only theme in the game. Most stories in modern human history have multiple themes throughout the narrative; this is partly what made Don Quixote such a landmark historically.

Secondly, do you have children or have spent time with children? This game has some of the most adult scenes and narrative ever in gaming- and I have been playing games since the 1970s.

Do you sincerely think Kidergarters engage in stories about Ultiitariaism, Humanism, Inhumanity, PTSD, Biopower, or Fanaticism?

My children have well-worn copies of The Will To Knowledge. Totally.

It is one thing to say you dislike something, none can fault you there, pickles & ice cream, and all that. But it is fallacious to make such an intentionally ridiculous comparison and reductionist in the context of what is presented in-media as either respectable opinion or critique.

Shameful.

God damn, didn't think that someone would actually try to build an argument by using their own feces as mortar. Impressive I must say.

Considering the stagering amount of hostilty I would assume you're one of "those" gamers that throws a hissy fit as soon as someone doesn't like what they like.

[Relapses]

Jim Sterling's thoughts on TLoU2 pretty much perfectly articulates my views on the game.

[Fencers]

Thankfully Abby doesn't come across as anymore unstoppable than Joel did.

Not entirely in agreement here. Abby is like the Terminator.

I was bare knuckle boxing with three zombies at once and she smashed their heads like watermelons.

[Gigantique]

I'm not very far into the game yet (reached Seattle) and I have some thoughts so far:

First, I tend to not give a rat's ass about what the general consensus is. I buy games based on what I think I'll enjoy, and I've found hidden gems (Grandia as a kid, Deus Ex HR etc) and burned myself (Anthem, fuck you Bioware) as a result. So any grievances or praise I have is usually detached from whatever the current trendy thing to hate or love is, and tends to just be a coincidence if similar.

Like I said, I haven't gotten far, but I have two fairly big issues; To tackle the smallest first, I was very diaheartened to enter Seattle and find an open world-style area with sidequest-esque areas. I LOVED the execution of the map, but I enjoyed TLoU for it being a movie you played through, not an open world where the plot has to wait for me to rummage through building number 34 for loot, even tho we're on the clock hunting the next plot point. I like open world games, but that is not what TLoU was as a franchise for me, and I hope to god it narrows down soon, but I have my fears it won't.

Secondly, and I can't seem to figure out spoiler warnings but it's been written without tags before, I absolutely loathed the execution (literally and metaphorically) of Joel's demise. I figured he was a goner from the first trailer, and I don't think he should have survived the second game, he serves much better as a catalyst for Ellie since his arc was done. But killing him this early? When both Ellie and Abby referenced the lodge that early in the game, I felt a pit in my stomach, because I felt like they couldn't do it this early, with Abby being an absolute nobody to me, and expect me to care for her? Especially since I had seen the trailer where he shows up (which I assume is a shameless model swap then, since he's... Unlikely to be there now) I figured he'd be a victim to Ellie's quest for revenge, which would absolutely wreck her and not have me become an enemy of this new character they probably want me to sympathise with from the very beginning.

Have Joel catch up to Ellie after some other character is killed off (Dina perhaps?) and Ellie storms off for revenge. Abby could be a member of the same group that did it, but innocent in that particular killing, and in her scenes we see how Ellie and later Joel killing off their members have a hyge impact on Abby, and the player gets torn between their sympathy for Joel/Ellie on their quest for revenge and Abby for her quest to stop this murdering duo from ofring more of her people. Meanwhile Joel, having had character growth since the first game, isn't the cold-hearted murderer he was when he was first introduced, but now tried from the very beginning to convince Ellie that this path will only lead to more suffering, that he knows this from experience etc. Ellie refuses to give up, and it ends with a confrontation where Joel either bumrushes a squad that have them cornered and gets killed to give Ellie a chance to get away, or is killed after being captured while Ellie watches from some hiding spot. Either way could work, depending on your view on Joel from the first game. Either way Ellie just gets a brutal leason in how Joel was right, while still adding even MORE fuel to finish off this group, with Abby as a direct target.

You can keep the (sadly spoiled for me) ending intact, but it won't feel as cheap as I fear the current one will be, because I grew to sympathise with and even like Abby BEFORE she killed the character whose growth carried the entire damn franchise in the first game.

(NEXT PARAGRAPH MIGHT GIVE AWAY AN ENDING PLOTLINE, REST SHOULD BE SAFE)

My girlfriend, not reading a fragment of game news, commented how this story had "better not be some bullshit revenge-is-bad-so-I'll-spare-the-ONE-person-I-need-jammed-through-a-shredder story" after half the main cast of the first game had been promptly terminated. I don't have the heart to tell her my dudes and dudettes.

I don't know, so far the things outside of the plot sre hands-down the coolest shit I've seen in a game. I liked the gameplay of the first, although I'm not a big fan of clickers being Stealth-killable now without spending a resource. They kinda lost their unique threat now, and are just annoying zombies I have to sneak up on exrea slowly before I can oneshot them. Otherwise the details on the world are breathtaking, and the small things like how Ellie interacts with the map, how the individual parts of the horse moves etc are just... Insanely well made.

But the story is what makes or breaks TLoU, and so far I don't see any backstory being shown for Abby that will lessen my urge to introduce her face to the barrel of a shotgun for Joel. She's maybe a bit too manly in body shape for me to find realistic, but for all I know that's what pumped up women look like, in which case that's an "aight cool, not what I find attractive but neither does it impact me for shit" from me.

/10chars?

[Fencers]

Like I said, I haven't gotten far, but I have two fairly big issues; To tackle the smallest first, I was very diaheartened to enter Seattle and find an open world-style area with sidequest-esque areas. I LOVED the execution of the map, but I enjoyed TLoU for it being a movie you played through, not an open world where the plot has to wait for me to rummage through building number 34 for loot, even tho we're on the clock hunting the next plot point. I like open world games, but that is not what TLoU was as a franchise for me, and I hope to god it narrows down soon, but I have my fears it won't.

Not sure how far you are in the game yet, but that Day 1 portion of Seattle is about as "open world" as it ever gets. The game is SUPER linear once you open the FEDRA Gate.

I actually think it's one of the big negatives of TLOU2; it's a pretty linear and railroad-y type of design.

Edit: I have yet to finish the game myself. I'm a ways into Abby's story so far though.

[Gigantique]

Not sure how far you are in the game yet, but that Day 1 portion of Seattle is about as "open world" as it ever gets. The game is SUPER linear once you open the FEDRA Gate.

I actually think it's one of the big negatives of TLOU2; it's a pretty linear and railroad-y type of design.

I opened the gate, and that's when it opened up (with all the buildings you could enter like the bank, coffee shop etc). If it narrows down and becomes a railroad with some choices on how to approach each problem that's awesome. TLoU is a story-driven game, and those are personally so much better when played in the linear, movie-as-a-game style, and not the open world "it's super urgent that you do the main plot asap, but I mean, sure this <insert random area> might have another leather strap to use!" trap that those games tend to fall right into :P

[Fencers]

I opened the gate, and that's when it opened up (with all the buildings you could enter like the bank, coffee shop etc). If it narrows down and becomes a railroad with some choices on how to approach each problem that's awesome. TLoU is a story-driven game, and those are personally so much better when played in the linear, movie-as-a-game style, and not the open world "it's super urgent that you do the main plot asap, but I mean, sure this <insert random area> might have another leather strap to use!" trap that those games tend to fall right into :P

Really? Did you get the 2nd gate open? Honestly, a lot has happened since Friday when I crossed that section. Nonetheless, that part is all the open world you get. Its basically like the first game with some jumping and swimming here and there. Of course, you got safes to crack and scarp to stuff in your bag of holding but its pretty linear.

[everydaygamer]

I finally finished the game and it was absolutely amazing, honestly, it's a shame people couldn't get over Joel's death and closed their mind off to the rest of the game but I personally thought it was an incredible experience right up until the final moment. I do think it went on a little long the last section should have just been an epilogue we didn't need a new faction being introduced for us to deal with but other than that loved the story and I disagree with people saying that they should have told the story differently because it only works if you do all those things as Ellie before seeing Abbie's side of things, Joel needed to die the way he did for it to have as much of an impact on the characters as it did.

Tommy and Ellie are consumed with rage and literally can't rest until they get some kind of closure and the violent means of how Abbie kills Joel shakes her and her friends to the point where they drift apart as a result with Abbie trying to find some way to balance the scales so to speak with Yara and Lev. Honestly this was an incredible experience and I applaud Naughty Dog for having the balls to tell this kind of story.

On another note how is it that despite the accusations of Abby being trans that no one seems to be outraged over the actual trans character. I was surprised that this was the one thing not spoiled for me.

[Tech614]

On another note how is it that despite the accusations of Abby being trans that no one seems to be outraged over the actual trans character. I was surprised that this was the one thing not spoiled for me.

Because it wasn't in the leak(which was just early game Abby gameplay in Wyoming and Joel's death). Everything else was just bullshit made up. The outrage kiddos never bothered to play the game, and the type of content creator that caters to them was likely so obnoxious with their commentary it's hard for them to pick up on if they even watched a play through.

- - - Updated - - -

I opened the gate, and that's when it opened up (with all the buildings you could enter like the bank, coffee shop etc). If it narrows down and becomes a railroad with some choices on how to approach each problem that's awesome. TLoU is a story-driven game, and those are personally so much better when played in the linear, movie-as-a-game style, and not the open world "it's super urgent that you do the main plot asap, but I mean, sure this <insert random area> might have another leather strap to use!" trap that those games tend to fall right into :P

Fencers means another gate opening, after you acquire the gas. Downtown Seattle is the only "open world" type area of the game, after that there are some large levels still but they are much more linear in comparison and no one will mistake them for being open world. About as large as Uncharted 4 levels all in all.

[SirCowdog]

Jim Sterling's thoughts on TLoU2 pretty much perfectly articulates my views on the game.

I thought that Upper Echelon Gamers review was particularly informative.

https://youtu.be/A5bw4CmLZcY

Basically brute forcing the player into feeling a certain way with unfair, out of character actions amd poor storytelling. :/

Not sure I 100% agree, but he makes a powerful case.

[everydaygamer]

I agree it's emotional manipulation but that could be said for any number of stories I definitely disagree with characters acting out of character. Everything they do makes sense in context.

[Gigantique]

All I can say is that without the interactions between Joel and Ellie, and a conclusion to the conflict hinted at between them at the end of TLoU, the sequel already had a near-impossible task of convincing me smashing Joel into his grave before I've even had a single non-intro interaction between him and Ellie was a good idea. Trying to have me not want the catharsis of throwing Abby into a pit of clickers by the final confrontation is a narrative feat I don't think any developer could pull off, and sadly I don't consume media I classify like that. I also stopped watching the Walking Dead in the season Negan was introduced, because they kept puling shit upon shit on "my" team, and subverted every expected catharsis from getting back at them.

I really hope a miracle happens, as I've been looking forward to this game since its announcement. I am afraid I'm gonna regret letting my gf convince me to pay full price for it though.