SPOILERS: Shadowlands Intro Faction Leader Weirdness

[For_The_Horde]

I would say Calia is less aligned with the horde, and more aligned with the people of Lordaeron. There's a huge power vacuum right now, and she is technically their queen. And Valeera is probably just backing up Calia, since she is Anduin's friend and was under his protection. Personally I want to look closer to see if there's any slight awkwardness between Calia and Bolvar. Their possible relationship has yet to be confirmed as real or fake, and if true we might not even see it here since its supposed to be secret.

[Skytotem]

I would say Calia is less aligned with the horde, and more aligned with the people of Lordaeron. There's a huge power vacuum right now, and she is technically their queen. And Valeera is probably just backing up Calia, since she is Anduin's friend and was under his protection. Personally I want to look closer to see if there's any slight awkwardness between Calia and Bolvar. Their possible relationship has yet to be confirmed as real or fake, and if true we might not even see it here since its supposed to be secret.

you're thinking of Taelia

[Schattenlied]

It really shows how much they've gutted the Horde roster when they have to stuff *Valeera Sanguinar* Varian's comic book tagalong, onto the Horde that once enslaved her.

A character who has an iconic look but... nothing else going for them.

Not to mention she herself has stated that her only allegiance is to Varian and Anduin.

[For_The_Horde]

you're thinking of Taelia

Yes and no, I'm saying Calia + Bolvar = Taelia, but nobody can say anything because that would make her the last living heir to Lordaeron and we already saw what happened to Calia when people found out she was alive.

[Skytotem]

Yes and no, I'm saying Calia + Bolvar = Taelia, but nobody can say anything because that would make her the last living heir to Lordaeron and we already saw what happened to Calia when people found out she was alive.

I'm not sure the timeline and agegroup would match up for that.

[For_The_Horde]

Oh man....
I really don't like how Tyrande is going even more crazy. She needs to do something about that so she doesn't end up having the Night Warrior power kill her. Otherwise she might end up becoming a Raid Boss....

Its funny, Tyrande and Illidan have so much in common now. Both have gone through great pain and sacrifice and metamorphosis even to protect/avenge their people, to the point they're consumed by hate and vengeance. I'm not sure if we're going to fight her in the future, but I hope Illidan comes back to try and talk her down first. He's probably the only one who knows that road and where it leads and can possibly get through to her (aside from Elune herself). Alternatively I hope Maiev comes back and locks Tyrande up in a dark hole for 10,000 years, maybe that will cool her down a bit.

[Psykho]

the leaders of the horde are defending the leader of the forsaken who are part of the horde, it makes sense that they defend her.
She can go save Anduin alongside her racial leader, she was not loyal to the alliance.

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Valeera is equally as dismissive to the Horde, as far as she sees neither have done anything for her, she is loyal to the Wrynns first and foremost, she doesn't give a rat's ass about the factions otherwise

You really shouldn't just post a vid without explaining how it helps your case, if it's about Valeera drawing her weapons so did everyone except Calia, her positioning puts her smack behind the actual Horde members, where Rogues are most dangerous, I don't have alpha access so I can't check but Valeera's general position can translate into 3 possible targets, Calia who doesn't even seem to have a weapon, Tyrande, and the most likely in my mind Lorthemar who is the closest to actually strike anyone Alliance side

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I would say Calia is less aligned with the horde, and more aligned with the people of Lordaeron. There's a huge power vacuum right now, and she is technically their queen. And Valeera is probably just backing up Calia, since she is Anduin's friend and was under his protection. Personally I want to look closer to see if there's any slight awkwardness between Calia and Bolvar. Their possible relationship has yet to be confirmed as real or fake, and if true we might not even see it here since its supposed to be secret.

aside from Calia being the first to turn towards him their seems to be nothing hinting at it as far I know, everyone else was watching out to see if the other faction was going to attack so either way it makes sense

and from a trait standpoint both Calia and the other canidate for Taelia's mother confirmed deceased Mara Fordragon, don't make much sense, even assuming Taelia's skin is just a tan it doesn't explain where the black hair came from, Bolvar is a redhead, Calia is blonde and Mara's model gives her light brown

[Skytotem]

aside from Calia being the first to turn towards him their seems to be nothing hinting at it as far I know, everyone else was watching out to see if the other faction was going to attack so either way it makes sense

and from a trait standpoint both Calia and the other canidate for Taelia's mother confirmed deceased Mara Fordragon, don't make much sense, even assuming Taelia's skin is just a tan it doesn't explain where the black hair came from, Bolvar is a redhead, Calia is blonde and Mara's model gives her light brown

Hair color can skip a generation or two at times, but yeah, I doubt it.

[Psykho]

Hair color can skip a generation or two at times, but yeah, I doubt it.

The thing though is Black hair is generally a dominant trait so I'd assume if any color was to skip a generation it would be blonde or red, but let's be character designers rarely ever bother with making sure these kind of things make sense, you know the whole trope of girls in anime being clones of their mothers

Hell narratively it'd make more sense for Calia's husband to be a member of the Scarlet Brotherhood as the interactions with him would give Calia that rejected by the ones they love experience that would give her a complete understanding of the Forsaken's strife

[For_The_Horde]

aside from Calia being the first to turn towards him their seems to be nothing hinting at it as far I know, everyone else was watching out to see if the other faction was going to attack so either way it makes sense

and from a trait standpoint both Calia and the other canidate for Taelia's mother confirmed deceased Mara Fordragon, don't make much sense, even assuming Taelia's skin is just a tan it doesn't explain where the black hair came from, Bolvar is a redhead, Calia is blonde and Mara's model gives her light brown

Mara Fordragon is probably too old, she was in her prime back during the first war. Taelia is closer to Anduin's age, and it sounds like she was a small child back during vanilla warcraft times.

That being said, we know next to nothing about Bolvar. We don't know where he hailed from, why he was appointed as highlord, we don't even know if he's really a Fordragon, it could just be a cover. What we do know is he's trusted by royalty, he's exceptionally loyal and self sacrificing, and his daughter was entrusted to be a ward of house Proudmoore. Proudmoore, who's house had no great love or loyalty to Wrynn or Stormwind, yet Daelin accepted Taelia as his ward under the guard of his most trusted captain. I doubt Daelin would care enough to do this as a favor to Bolvar, but if Taelia was a Menethil however, well, houses Proudmoore and Menethil had a strong relationship for quite some time.

As for the hair color thing, I don't know, I'm not really sure Blizzard thinks that far ahead for that kind of detail. Bolvar's hair is more of a dark brown though.

[Psykho]

Mara Fordragon is probably too old, she was in her prime back during the first war. Taelia is closer to Anduin's age, and it sounds like she was a small child back during vanilla warcraft times.

That being said, we know next to nothing about Bolvar. We don't know where he hailed from, why he was appointed as highlord, we don't even know if he's really a Fordragon, it could just be a cover. What we do know is he's trusted by royalty, he's exceptionally loyal and self sacrificing, and his daughter was entrusted to be a ward of house Proudmoore. Proudmoore, who's house had no great love or loyalty to Wrynn or Stormwind, yet Daelin accepted Taelia as his ward under the guard of his most trusted captain. I doubt Daelin would care enough to do this as a favor to Bolvar, but if Taelia was a Menethil however, well, houses Proudmoore and Menethil had a strong relationship for quite some time.

As for the hair color thing, I don't know, I'm not really sure Blizzard thinks that far ahead for that kind of detail. Bolvar's hair is more of a dark brown though.

the age of these characters can get so confusing sometimes either way we have no idea who Taelia's mother is/was

[Kathranis]

Well, with the new excerpt from Shadows Rising we have confirmation that Calia seems to sit on the Horde council alongside Lilian as a representative of the Forsaken, and that Derek Proudmoore has joined the Forsaken and by extension the Horde.

I suspect that we'll get a bit more development at some point to explain exactly why the pair decided to throw their lots in fully with the Forsaken as more multimedia tie-ins are released closer to expansion launch.


Valeera is technically neutral, but has been positioned more and more as a Horde face ever since she got a unique model, probably because she's so obviously a blood elf and it's easier to just make her Horde than to try and explain to Alliance players with a blood elf is doing around. Realistically she was probably appointed by Anduin as an envoy who can represent the interests of the Horde, at least that's my headcanon until some piece of other media says otherwise.


Again, there will probably be more story between now and release that sets things in place. Whether people accept that storytelling is another question, but this is where we're going to end up with the Horde Council, it seems.

[Psykho]

Well, with the new excerpt from Shadows Rising we have confirmation that Calia seems to sit on the Horde council alongside Lilian as a representative of the Forsaken, and that Derek Proudmoore has joined the Forsaken and by extension the Horde.

I suspect that we'll get a bit more development at some point to explain exactly why the pair decided to throw their lots in fully with the Forsaken as more multimedia tie-ins are released closer to expansion launch.


Valeera is technically neutral, but has been positioned more and more as a Horde face ever since she got a unique model, probably because she's so obviously a blood elf and it's easier to just make her Horde than to try and explain to Alliance players with a blood elf is doing around. Realistically she was probably appointed by Anduin as an envoy who can represent the interests of the Horde, at least that's my headcanon until some piece of other media says otherwise.


Again, there will probably be more story between now and release that sets things in place. Whether people accept that storytelling is another question, but this is where we're going to end up with the Horde Council, it seems.

Alternate take on Valeera appearing in Horde cities is she's simply the best option for someone to spy for Anduin, since she's a Blood Elf most common Horde citizens would walk past her without a second thought, the only other reliable option is Shaw's second in command(who is a goblin) and Anduin doesn't really have a lot of faith in the SI:7

[Swnem]

You are assuming much and in denial.

Calia is the new leader of the Forsaken, get used to it. She is their rightful queen. She is also good to them. You are just projecting player bias.

Valeera is there cause of a spoiler you know about. Nothing wrong with hanging out with the horde characters. She is doing that in Stormwind keep as well. She is neutral.

Can you please stop with the faction war BS? It's been bad enough.

[Varodoc]

Got to love the logic of Forsaken fans though:

Forsaken fans: "The Forsaken are the rightful citizens of Lordaeron, the Alliance has no claim over their land."
Also Forsaken fans: "Calia, the last scion of the royal family that ruled Lordaeron for over 2000 years, should not become their leader and guide them into a new age."

[Timester]

Alternate take on Valeera appearing in Horde cities is she's simply the best option for someone to spy for Anduin, since she's a Blood Elf most common Horde citizens would walk past her without a second thought, the only other reliable option is Shaw's second in command(who is a goblin) and Anduin doesn't really have a lot of faith in the SI:7

Why would the Horde Council let a well-known spy, with clear affiliation with the House Wrynn, even to stand near them? That would be like inviting Putin's bodyguard to a high-ranking NATO meeting.

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Valeera is there cause of a spoiler you know about. Nothing wrong with hanging out with the horde characters. She is doing that in Stormwind keep as well. She is neutral.

Read above. She isn't neutral, she stand with House Wrynn.

[Saltysquidoon]

That being said, we know next to nothing about Bolvar. We don't know where he hailed from, why he was appointed as highlord, we don't even know if he's really a Fordragon, it could just be a cover.

The second you implied Bolvar has been in deep cover for decades both in and out of universe you gave blizzard far too much credit.

[Engal]

You are assuming much and in denial.

Calia is the new leader of the Forsaken, get used to it. She is their rightful queen. She is also good to them. You are just projecting player bias.

Valeera is there cause of a spoiler you know about. Nothing wrong with hanging out with the horde characters. She is doing that in Stormwind keep as well. She is neutral.

Can you please stop with the faction war BS? It's been bad enough.

Unfortunately the faction war BS will still be present due to the incapacity of some Horde faction to let go.

Talanji wants vengeance because of Dazar'Alor.
Rokhan is anti diplomacy / anti negociation because " it'll make his ancestors cry " ( lol )
Mag'har are Mag'har, they live through conflict.

Hell, Tyrande is angry toward the horde but she knows her main focus is Sylvanas and don't want to burn all of the Forsaken because of this, she scorns her and spit at their face yeah but she's not warmongering toward the horde even if she's inhabited by a spirit of vengeance...

[Skytotem]

You are assuming much and in denial.

Calia is the new leader of the Forsaken, get used to it. She is their rightful queen. She is also good to them. You are just projecting player bias.

Valeera is there cause of a spoiler you know about. Nothing wrong with hanging out with the horde characters. She is doing that in Stormwind keep as well. She is neutral.

Can you please stop with the faction war BS? It's been bad enough.

1. She shouldn't be though. "Rightful Queen" doesn't mean much, she's dead and so are the Forsaken. We can't say whether she's good because we literally haven't seen any decisions she's made. YOU are the one who's biased because you're just swallowing this without scrutinizing the writing.

Consider the fact that the Forsaken have raised dead from places beyond Lordaeron, Calia's not THEIR Queen. Consider that Calia was raised by light energy and doesn't have the same anguish that Forsaken raised with shadow magic do. Consider that she was never made to massacre her friends and family by the scourge or by sylvanas.

She knows NOTHING about what it means to be Forsaken. She should be with the argents if Blizz wants her to play therapy counselor.


2. Valeera is there for Anduin, that's my POINT she shouldn't be with the Horde characters, she's an alliance mercenary and we don't need a second blood elf after Lor'themar. She shouldn't be standing behind Horde leaders with daggers drawn while meeting with Alliance leaders.


3. The faction war should end but only when they can write it well, and right now they're just making "Anyone who still wants to fight is irrational and MEAN", it's lazy and it's insulting to all of us.

Got to love the logic of Forsaken fans though:

Forsaken fans: "The Forsaken are the rightful citizens of Lordaeron, the Alliance has no claim over their land."
Also Forsaken fans: "Calia, the last scion of the royal family that ruled Lordaeron for over 2000 years, should not become their leader and guide them into a new age."

Generally not the same fans.

A lot of people don't like how they play up the Lordaeron line and want the Forsaken to move beyond it. There's plenty of room for them to be dark and make something new without being stupid-evil like they have in the past.

[Cherry123]

where Velen