Humanity's Kyrian Origins

[Skytotem]

So LORD RUIN on the SoL discord made this observation and it jumped out at me.

If the Shadowlands existed before the Titans, then it means the World Souls based the Vrykul, and possibly their own forms, on things they saw in the Shadowlands, the Kyrians, and that this is why humans are so easily raised by death magic.

(Obviously this is a Watsonian rather than a Doylist explanation, but when Blizz gives us trash lore like Shadowlands having Bluemans you gotta make do)

[Biomega]

Uh, isn't that backwards logic?

The Shadowlands may have existed before the Titans, but that doesn't mean the Kyrians did, too. In fact, aren't they made from the worthy souls of the deceased? In which case there COULDN'T be any Kyrians UNTIL you get worthy souls that die and are then turned into Kyrians.

[mickybrighteyes]

but aren't the Vrykul the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs?

[Skytotem]

but aren't the Vrykul the result of the curse of flesh influencing titan constructs?

Yes, constricts that, if shadowlands predate titans, are based on the appearance of Kyrians, the same way the scourge apparently ripped off Maldraxxus

[Feanoro]

Yes, constricts that, if shadowlands predate titans, are based on the appearance of Kyrians, the same way the scourge apparently ripped off Maldraxxus

So yet another way the new, completely original lore unconstrained by Chronicles and existing canon! rips those sources off, and pretends to be the originator.

[Skytotem]

Uh, isn't that backwards logic?

The Shadowlands may have existed before the Titans, but that doesn't mean the Kyrians did, too. In fact, aren't they made from the worthy souls of the deceased? In which case there COULDN'T be any Kyrians UNTIL you get worthy souls that die and are then turned into Kyrians.

True but the Kyrians don't only get souls from azeroth

[alt-ithist]

So LORD RUIN on the SoL discord made this observation and it jumped out at me.

If the Shadowlands existed before the Titans, then it means the World Souls based the Vrykul, and possibly their own forms, on things they saw in the Shadowlands, the Kyrians, and that this is why humans are so easily raised by death magic.

(Obviously this is a Watsonian rather than a Doylist explanation, but when Blizz gives us trash lore like Shadowlands having Bluemans you gotta make do)

Except vrykul’s look nothing like kyrians.

[Skytotem]

Except vrykul’s look nothing like kyrians.

How do you figure? They're identical except Vrykul are beard-ier and Kyrians are Blue

[Biomega]

True but the Kyrians don't only get souls from azeroth

That is a fair point, but we know very little about other races in the universe, or how souls of all the races are handled in the Shadowlands. Do Tauren become Kyrians, too, or do they go somewhere else? Elves? Trolls? Dwarves? What about completely non-humanoid creatures from the weird reaches of the cosmos?

It makes sense for the Vrykul and Humans to go down that way because, well, Humans kind of are Vrykul. The Kyrians certainly have a very humanoid morphology, which would lend credence to the idea that they're the souls of Vrykul and Humans, and that others races go down a different path in the SL - which makes sense, given that the SL encompasses "infinite realms" within it, and we know at least of one that has a fairly strong connection to another race (Bwonsamdi's realm).

[WaltherLeopold]

It's so dumb that Blizzard decided to open the scope of the Shadowlands to be "all of the warcraft universe, planets etcetera" rather than just the death realm of Azeroth.

Because your portrayal of the Shadowlands is going to be so small it's unbelievable. Are you telling me literally everything that dies in the whole universe, billions of stars and so forth are now fitting into this little 4 realm locale?

I know the cop out answer is "but this is only a slice of shadowlands", which begs the question why we're dealing with this in particular to begin with.

[Skytotem]

It's so dumb that Blizzard decided to open the scope of the Shadowlands to be "all of the warcraft universe, planets etcetera" rather than just the death realm of Azeroth.

Because your portrayal of the Shadowlands is going to be so small it's unbelievable. Are you telling me literally everything that dies in the whole universe, billions of stars and so forth are now fitting into this little 4 realm locale?

I know the cop out answer is "but this is only a slice of shadowlands", which begs the question why we're dealing with this in particular to begin with.

Apparently we're in the 4 "most important" afterlives

[StationaryHawk]

How do you figure? They're identical except Vrykul are beard-ier and Kyrians are Blue

They're also identical to high elves, except that high elves have long ears and kyrians are blue.

What about dwarves? Gnomes? Tol'vir? Mogu? Were they also based on inhabitants of one of infinite realms in the Shadowlands? Is there anything that implies that titans even choose their own forms?

That said, it honestly sounds exactly like the kind of direction Blizzard would take the story, unfortunately.

[Skytotem]

They're also identical to high elves, except that high elves have long ears and kyrians are blue.

What about dwarves? Gnomes? Tol'vir? Mogu? Were they also based on inhabitants of one of infinite realms in the Shadowlands? Is there anything that implies that the titans even chose their own forms?

Well presumably dwarves and gnomes were modifications on the vrykul template

Not the others though

I still figure tolvir were a pet project of elune and eonar collaborating, since Elune, while not a titan, was probably around back then and loves cats and owls

[TheFirstOnes]

So yet another way the new, completely original lore unconstrained by Chronicles and existing canon! rips those sources off, and pretends to be the originator.

No. You're listening to shit that isn't true. Humans aren't related to anything in the Shadowlands at all. Come on dude.

[WaltherLeopold]

Apparently we're in the 4 "most important" afterlives

Yeah, it's such a cop out, the world of shadowlands would have to be unimaginably big to support everything that has died throughout the universe, like countless galaxies etc.

It's really, really dumb to narrow it down like this, I can accept the whole, a castle, a graveyard, a forest and heaventhing handwave if it were strictly "azeroth" or if it was left unexplained and intentionally mystical.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yes, the Shadowlands existed before the Titans...

Your point? The Titan's created Titan Constructs, which Yogg'Saron's curse of flesh made into the Vrykul, etc. And a select amount of Vrykul evolved into Humans.

They have NOTHING IN RELATION to the Kyrians. This is Pyromancer type logic. Stop it.

[Kyphael]

Broken down to the barest bones, this sounds a lot like "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"

[mickybrighteyes]

How do you figure? They're identical except Vrykul are beard-ier and Kyrians are Blue

erm the kyrian and vrykul females do bear a striking resmblance. The males however... Kyrian don't have the broad physique we see on the vrykul.

Also the males have very different shaped head that a beard wouldn't wouldn't account for.

edit:

now I did see a concept art piece that had a Kyrian male looking like a straight beardless Vrykul but I've yet to see any sporting a model like it.

[shoc]

Humanoid =/= Human

[Skytotem]

Broken down to the barest bones, this sounds a lot like "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"

I'm admittedly shitposting to poke fun at how many things use a very 'human' model and how people will consider vrykul a separate species despite being 'slightly bulkier, and they have beards!'