[Guide] How to not hurt yourself with your Covenant choice from Day 1

[Big Thanks]

No-one needs warning. We've had years upon years of illusion of choice. This is just a rant thread about the covenant system disguised.

In this particular case...it is what it is.
There is no agenda on this one because i actually like the covenant system. Surprise.

If anything, is criticism to some parts of the covenant system in disguise...
But thats the whole point.
This is a warning because of the flaws of the cov system...

[LemonDemonGirl]

Well, I should be fine since I'm option c) Roleplayer. Though I'm not sure how to fit some of my RP characters into certain Covenants, but I'll do my best

[Hitei]

You dont think is worth WARNING the FotM and BiS chasers now?
This is a trap some people may have not yet realized.

You aren't warning anyone of anything. People who are only interested in FotM know what they are doing. That's why it's called FLAVOR OF THE MONTH, and not "PERMANENT BEST CHOICE". People who are only concerned with BiS are either just FotM, or they are slightly relaxed optimizers. The FotM ones will continue doing FotM, the others will either decide to switch later on if there are balance changes, or deal with it.

This thread is fucking pointless.

[Thrif]

I mean, you're basically just summing up what everyone knows. Covenants isn't designed for tryhards who focuses on getting the best raider.io scores or highest parses. They're for people who play the game for fun and enjoy having at least a few choices and distinctions in their characters.

[Big Thanks]

You aren't warning anyone of anything. People who are only interested in FotM know what they are doing. That's why it's called FLAVOR OF THE MONTH, and not "PERMANENT BEST CHOICE". People who are only concerned with BiS are either just FotM, or they are slightly relaxed optimizers. The FotM ones will continue doing FotM, the others will either decide to switch later on if there are balance changes, or deal with it.

This thread is fucking pointless.

The covenant level up and progression takes weeks to months (confirmed)
You cant go around jumping between covenants...

We dont even know if there is any kind of "catchup" or a "non-timegated" way to level your your new covenant after switching.

In this case, see the thread as a criticism to that fact.

Thread is not worthless...if a Warning to the people...

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I mean, you're basically just summing up what everyone knows. Covenants isn't designed for tryhards who focuses on getting the best raider.io scores or highest parses. They're for people who play the game for fun and enjoy having at least a few choices and distinctions in their characters.

True, but in my opinion it sums up the situation pretty well...serves as a warning...serves as criticism also in disguise.
I dont think this is all pointless Like Hitei says

[cloudbuster]

heartbroken constantly by patch changes

Get a grip, guy. It's just a game.

[Paperfox]

Just play what you want.

If you want to be the strongest version of your character possible, then you want the covenant that will make that happen. Play that.

If one of the covenants has a good aesthetic that you like, or you think would fit your character, that's the covenant you want. Play that.

If you want to have fun with a certain ability that you really like or that looks really good, you want the covenant that gives you that ability. Play that.

If you don't want to hurt yourself, then get that bullshit out of your mind that you have no choice but to hurt yourself. Covenants may turn out to be a really neat feature, or they may very well turn out to be awful. In either case, make the best of it. Do what upsets you the least and falls the most in line with how you want to play. Share constructive thoughts/enjoyments with Blizzard and the community. Share constructive criticism with Blizzard and the community. And shut the fuck up if you can't find it in yourself to do either, because if you can't do either, then you're doing nothing.

Air your grievances constructively, and have as much fun as you can in the meanwhile, because at the end of Shadowlands, if you decided to be a cookie-cutter shitter and hardlock into Venthyr because Icy Veins told you to, frowning your way through the expansion when you really thought that Night Fae would've been a more comfortable/fun pick for you, that's your fault. It may or may not be Blizzard's fault as well, but you certainly didn't help.

Make alts. With the changes to leveling, Shadowlands might become more alt friendly. Use multiple characters to fully experience what you can't on one.

TLDR: Play the game and form your own opinion. Don't listen to "guides" like this.

Well said.

If you have three alts plus your main, you've got all the bases covered.

[cloudbuster]

Its just the reality of the situation.
You are not thinking straight if you think otherwise...in my opinion

Im open to new opinions though.

He's thinking straight. It is *exactly* just whining pretending to be a guide. Icy Veins and other places will release guides, and won't give emo asides about the subject.

[Darkeon]

God, I hope they keep on changing the abilities values just to annoy the bejeesus out of FOTM min maxers.

[Monster Hunter]

You dont think is worth WARNING the FotM and BiS chasers now?
This is a trap some people may have not yet realized.

No, not really

Any one who's a fotm/bis chaser knows what there getting in for by now it's been 15 years, even without covenants its the same story as the last 15 years, what's fotm/bis now isn't likely to stay that way

[Rustedsaint]

I pick what I want regardless of meta, and still achieve what I wish to achieve in game regardless of time spent

[Big Thanks]

Well said.

If you have three alts plus your main, you've got all the bases covered.

If you are a BiS chaser or a Fotm player is impossible to have "all bases covered".
You are setting yourself for either:
1) Disappointment
2) Endless covenant level up farm (which we dont even know if it has a catchup system when changed)
3) both

No matter what, this 2 types of players have nothing covered...unless they are blessed by the RNG Gods...but the odds are not in their favor.

[God Save The King]

Not really a guide, more just a complaint about the system.

I don't disagree that the system is concerning, but we will be able to change covenants if needed. A lot of the perks lean towards utility which is hard to quantify. Most talent rows that don't offer damage are fairly competitive. From the classes I play a bunch, Monk's lvl 60 row, Hunter's lvl 45 and 75 rows, Druid's 30, 45, and 60 rows, etc.

There are some power choices, but that's going to be hard to nail down until the first balancing patch after the first raid week.

[Doffen]

I'm going Night Fae on one of my vulperas because a fox, turning into a fox, is great.

My kind of player, what a great idea!

Its too clever, I am kinda rolling over here. I was thinking going Night Fae on my Vulpera Hunter and now its decided. Think about a fox turning into a fox while having a fox running beside you. Love Covenants already!

Me myself will go mostly Venthyr because of vampires and Necrolord because of BONEWINGS OH YEAH!

[Big Thanks]

And the guide is wrong.

Pre launch rankings are usually pretty bad, but it usually doesn't take long for the community to figure out what the best is and it often takes Blizz a LONG time to rebalance things.

For example, it was very clear early on that monks were way better than guardian druids in BFA. Let's look at what Blizz did:

8.1:

Guardian damage increased 12%, 1 min reduction in stampeding roar
Brewmaster stagger nerfed, statue nerfed

8.2.5:

Guardian: Ironfur rage cost reduced, 15% buff to mangle and thrash, frenzied regen buffed 33%, rage generation buffed
Brewmaster: Slight dps nerf

8.3:

No changes to guardian
Brewmaster stagger nerfed AGAIN. Brewmaster stamina nerfed.

And so after 3 straight patches where the changes attempted to close the gap between druid and brewmaster, the best tank in 8.3 is... brewmaster. Druid is one of the worst. The gap is lower than it was at launch, but it's still worse. And the magnitude of these changes put together make it clear how laughably bad they were at launch, when after 3 rounds of nerfs/buffs they are still worse than brewmaster.

Just like last expansion where guardians reigned supreme for a very long time. Chasing BIS tends to work out pretty well.

Very amazing post. I love this

But do you think there will be "covenant favoritism" the same way there is "class favoritism" in Shadowlands?

I know, i know, is NOT documented there is such a thing as "class favoritism"...but there actually is, no?
If not favoritism...it is at least inhability to balance things out.
But on the other hand, Covenants are advertised to be...with minimal difference in performance.
"There wont be a wrong choice", remember?

I dont know...good luck May the RNG Gods be with you on this journey.

[Echeyakee]

This ain't a guide, just asinine whining. That's my thought.

Have to agree here.



What does "gameplay enthusiast" even mean? You've defined three rather niche groups, not necessarily exclusive, and then lumped the rest of the players together, in a group that is, once again, in no way exclusive from the other three.

And "Pick the gameplay option that is best for that activity, NOT in terms of performance BUT in terms of either utility or fun-factor" is a nice sounding sentiment, but not very realistic. How do you expect your average Joe player to make that choice, based on what? Unless you're going full roleplay and going to make your choice solely based on the covenant aesthetics and lore, even defining utility is nearly impossible. First you have the decision between survivability vs movement in the innate abilities, then you have the effects of soul-binds and then you also need to consider the class specific abilities. For example for priests survivability remains a major concern, when even world content is an uphill battle to stay alive, and then you need to consider fae class ability that adds major group utility.

If you are truly advocating not picking based on performance, your "guide" should have 2 groups with one recommendation each:

a) People who want to pick based on covenant they like the most, and don't mind the costs that come with that choice
pick based on covenant they like the most

b) Everyone else
Are inevitably and unavoidably F'ed.

[Big Thanks]

Have to agree here.



What does "gameplay enthusiast" even mean? You've defined three rather niche groups, not necessarily exclusive, and then lumped the rest of the players together, in a group that is, once again, in no way exclusive from the other three.

And "Pick the gameplay option that is best for that activity, NOT in terms of performance BUT in terms of either utility or fun-factor" is a nice sounding sentiment, but not very realistic. How do you expect your average Joe player to make that choice, based on what? Unless you're going full roleplay and going to make your choice solely based on the covenant aesthetics and lore, even defining utility is nearly impossible. First you have the decision between survivability vs movement in the innate abilities, then you have the effects of soul-binds and then you also need to consider the class specific abilities. For example for priests survivability remains a major concern, when even world content is an uphill battle to stay alive, and then you need to consider fae class ability that adds major group utility.

If you are truly advocating not picking based on performance, your "guide" should have 2 groups with one recommendation each:

a) People who want to pick based on covenant they like the most, and don't mind the costs that come with that choice
pick based on covenant they like the most

b) Everyone else
Are inevitably and unavoidably F'ed.

There are people who enjoy gameplay not based on performance.
HOW you play the character is more important than the numbers.
Is this group big? Probably not, because is MY group and im always a minority it seems.

But either way the point stands...

1) Players who will make "the choice" based on performance alone will most probably suffer consequences
2) Players who dont are in a pretty much better and happier environment for the years to come.

2 years is going to be a pretty long time...and i want to avoid at all cost ending disappointed.
The only way thats going to happen is by making my choice based on utility and fun factor of gameplay.

But giving it a 2nd thought...even utility can be nerfed :S

[arkanon]

You dont think is worth WARNING the FotM and BiS chasers now?
This is a trap some people may have not yet realized.

Those players are substantially better at this game than you in every single respect - they dont need your "advice" or this obvious whinge thread thinly veiled as a "guide". How arrogant do you need to be to think players clearing content exponentially more challenging than you (you admit you only play LFR and do random bgs and gank people in the world) need your "advice"?

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I mean, you're basically just summing up what everyone knows.

Yup, as many others have mentioned, its just another QQ thread, nothing more. And if anyone doubts that at all - OP literally said she has no interest in discussing things with anyone who doesnt agree with here - in the OP itself.

[Splenda]

This thread isn't going anywhere constructive- also please don't insult others, folks.