A time skip in 10.0 would make Tinkers possible.

[willtron]

You did not understand what I wrote.

I simply said that technology is not the focus of the Warcraft setting. "Sword and sorcery" is.

I never made any claims regarding the technology level in Warcraft.

Well thats wrong. The focus is now sword, sorcery and tech.

Anyway, you don't need a time skip to justify Tinkerers, that can be justified now pretty easily.

With the direction the game is going, I can see them or something like Astromancers coming into the game.

[Syegfryed]

@Teriz sometimes you just need to understand that elf players want all classes available to then, so now matter how much you explain why tinker would be better as just gnome and goblin exclusive for a little while.

They see no problem with DH being exclusive to elves, but as soon their are not on top, you have a problem

[Teriz]

@Teriz sometimes you just need to understand that elf players want all classes available to then, so now matter how much you explain why tinker would be better as just gnome and goblin exclusive for a little while.

They see no problem with DH being exclusive to elves, but as soon their are not on top, you have a problem

Yeah, sometimes I forget that elf fans hate short races with a passion. I mean, there's six threads on the front page of this forum dedicated to talking about elves, yet people lose their mind when one Tinker thread pops up.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the appeal of the Tinker concept is that it doesn't include elves.

[Ielenia]

Well thats wrong. The focus is now sword, sorcery and tech.

I'm not wrong. I'm right. That's what the Warcraft setting is: high fanasy.

The overwhelming majority of the settings of this game, like 80% or so, is not about technology, but "sword and sorcery".

It's further represented in the class selection options, too.

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I'll pass, thanks.

So you are pointed out where the evidence is, but "pass"? Sounds like you're afraid of what you'll find, considering you had no issue whatsoever in perusing the website of the previous evidence I provided, but now you "pass"?

And WoW's variation of the Monk revolves around Brews.

No. No, it does not. And I've shown it: removing "brews" from the monk class still leaves it fully recognizable as a monk.

I've already explained this and showed why Druids are a more apt example.

It's not. You're being dishonest and moving the goal posts. Your argument was that a class having the same graphics and gear among all the races available for the class makes it "zero personality and/or purpose in lore", and you continue to avoid addressing the fact that the monks are in that exact same situation with graphics and gear being the exact same for all races.

Oh, and since Ielenia and Revenanthero want to complain about me not providing a link, I'll provide one for you Triceron, since you haven't burned that bridge (yet) ;

https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/04/b...d-a-new-class/

The only one "burning bridges" here is you, Teriz, by refusing to provide evidence while at the same time continuing to demand evidence from those exact same people you refuse to provide evidence for.

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Vulpera using mechs to compensate for their lack of physical strength isn’t something that can be applied to every other race.

They don't need to compensate for their size. Being "bigger" also makes you a bigger target.

I'll repeat: classes do not exist to compensate for the flaws of the playable races.

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@Teriz sometimes you just need to understand that elf players want all classes available to then, so now matter how much you explain why tinker would be better as just gnome and goblin exclusive for a little while.

They see no problem with DH being exclusive to elves, but as soon their are not on top, you have a problem

Or... you maybe you could not be dishonest and look at the lore of both the demon hunters and "tinkers". Illidan refused to teach non-night elves, and only relented to teach Kael'Thas' elves after much insistence. The process of becoming a demon hunter is painful and often leads to death.

On top of that... there is absolutely zero lore reasons to make new demon hunters. The Burning Legion is basically over, the Titans are freed, so the need for more demon hunters is over.

Whereas technology has never been shown to be something exclusively understood by goblins and gnomes, and we have technology-oriented characters of many of the other races, like night elves, dwarves, humans, and blood elves.

Not to mention that Teriz' sole reasoning fell to pieces when he started shoe-horning vulpera into the "tinkers" solely because they're short, considering they're one of the least tech-oriented playable races in the entire game.

He's treating the tech class as a "band-aid" to solve the design flaws of gnomes and goblins.

[prwraith]

Meh can we go a month without tinkers threads it's one of the most divisive class suggestions I can remember and really fits nothing but an incredibly niche section of wow lore.

[Syegfryed]

Or... you maybe you could not be dishonest and look at the lore of both the demon hunters and "tinkers".

you mean the lore they made up to lock DH to the elves in the same route they could do to lock tinker to the small races?

Illidan refused to teach non-night elves, and only relented to teach Kael'Thas' elves after much insistence.

Because they wrote that way, they could have easily write that Illidan also techead other illidari

The process of becoming a demon hunter is painful and often leads to death.

and? isn't matter, isn't like elves have much numbers to spare compared

On top of that... there is absolutely zero lore reasons to make new demon hunters. The Burning Legion is basically over, the Titans are freed, so the need for more demon hunters is over.

simple not true, Illidan and illidari said the DH were now to protect azeroth, it was his goal all along, not simple fight the legion

demons are still out there, Azeroth still is in danger with other dark forces, like "demons" from the void, so, it make totally sense for then to boost their numbers to complete their task

totally double standards here

Whereas technology has never been shown to be something exclusively understood by goblins and gnomes, and we have technology-oriented characters of many of the other races, like night elves, dwarves, humans, and blood elves.

other races are not near as much tecnology oriented as goblin and gnomes from the beginning of wow, technology is their class fantasy, and are above anyone else, who is secondary and more magic oriented than tecnologic itself.

Even the dwarves are behind gnomes

Not to mention that Teriz' sole reasoning fell to pieces when he started shoe-horning vulpera into the "tinkers" solely because they're short, considering they're one of the least tech-oriented playable races in the entire game.

to be fair here, i hear a lot of crap of how "just elves can be DH because they are so quickly and agile and blablabla, you even said yourself its painfully, like only elves could endure.

The same route they took with DH, to lock down to elves, they can took with tinkers and add a lot of reasons of why they are - for the time being - locked to goblins and gnomes.

Hell they could even say they are the only ones who fit a "proper" mecha-suit fit for combat with all the tools of a playable class (not just shooting pew pew) because their size if they want

[Teriz]

So you are pointed out where the evidence is, but "pass"? Sounds like you're afraid of what you'll find, considering you had no issue whatsoever in perusing the website of the previous evidence I provided, but now you "pass"?

If you're not willing to provide it, then it's not worth me wasting time digging it up in your threads.

No. No, it does not. And I've shown it: removing "brews" from the monk class still leaves it fully recognizable as a monk.

But not as the class it is now, especially the Brewmaster whose entire rotation revolves around smashing a keg of beer on people's heads. You remove that and you'll need to redo the entire spec at least.

It's not. You're being dishonest and moving the goal posts. Your argument was that a class having the same graphics and gear among all the races available for the class makes it "zero personality and/or purpose in lore", and you continue to avoid addressing the fact that the monks are in that exact same situation with graphics and gear being the exact same for all races.

I never said all classes though. I was talking about classes that rely on certain graphical aspects such as Druids. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that a Druid class with the same forms spread across all the races would be generic proves my point. Like the Druid, a Tinker class spread through all or majority of races with the same mech form and weaponry would also be generic.

The only one "burning bridges" here is you, Teriz, by refusing to provide evidence while at the same time continuing to demand evidence from those exact same people you refuse to provide evidence for.

I think the moment when you outright said that a statement from Blizzard was a lie because YOU personally didn't believe it (and proved you wrong) made it apparent that no amount of evidence will satisfy you. The same can be said for Revenanthero who blatantly said that a tooltip didn't mean what it said it did simply because it provided him wrong. Thus, there's no point in providing evidence to either of you in these discussions. Triceron on the other hand has always been a straight shooter, so I have no problem providing evidence to him. It's really that simple.

They don't need to compensate for their size. Being "bigger" also makes you a bigger target.

I'll repeat: classes do not exist to compensate for the flaws of the playable races.

We're not talking about classes in this case, we're talking about lore. Further, their diminutive size could justify an embrace of technology. Gnomes and Goblins embrace technology for that very reason, and Vulpera have a history of being subjugated. Thus, they could view technology as a means to protect themselves. That gives yet another justification for Vulpera Tinkers along with evidence showing that Vulpera have no problem using technology (Vulpera gunners, quest where Vulpera use Goblin tech).

[Ielenia]

you mean the lore they made up to lock DH to the elves

This lore has existed since Warcraft 3 and TBC.

in the same route they could do to lock tinker to the small races?

No. No, it cannot. Because the lore of technology is that it is ALREADY available to all races.

Because they wrote that way, they could have easily write that Illidan also techead other illidari

Considering Illidan is xenophobic, why would he? Again, Kael'Thas had to practically strong-arm Illidan.

simple not true, Illidan and illidari said the DH were now to protect azeroth, it was his goal all along, not simple fight the legion

The goal of existing demon hunters. Again, there is no reason to create more demon hunters. There is no reason why one would want to become a demon hunter. Especially when there are less dangerous ways one could go to protect Azeroth.

totally double standards here

Zero double standards, because the demon hunters are nowhere near the "only" defenders of Azeroth, and not even the most powerful. And, again, on top of that, being a demon hunter comes with powerful drawbacks. Like the very real possibility of you ending up under the control of your demon within and destroying everything you swore to protect.

other races are not near as much tecnology oriented as goblin and gnomes from the beginning of wow,

Irrelevant. A race, as a whole, doesn't have to have "oriented" toward something to be able to do said something. By that reasoning, gnomes could not be any spellcaster class, considering how their race has "zero magic inclination". And by that logic, night elves could not be demon hunters, considering their race has zero inclination toward demons.

to be fair here, i hear a lot of crap of how "just elves can be DH because they are so quickly and agile and blablabla, you even said yourself its painfully, like only elves could endure.

I never said that. I simply said that it's a training with a high mortality rate, which is just another reason why it makes no sense right now to make more demon hunters today.

The same route they took with DH, to lock down to elves, they can took with tinkers and add a lot of reasons of why they are - for the time being - locked to goblins and gnomes.

No, it cannot. Because:
• Gnomes and goblins, unlike Illidan, see no problem in teaching their knowledge and skills to the other races
• Learning engineering is not a process with "high mortality rates which still leaves you having to fight daily for our sanity if you survive"

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If you're not willing to provide it, then it's not worth me wasting time digging it up in your threads.

I did provide. I pointed you where you could find it. Again: you had no trouble perusing a different site I pointed you out to.

But not as the class it is now, especially the Brewmaster whose entire rotation revolves around smashing a keg of beer on people's heads. You remove that and you'll need to redo the entire spec at least.

It doesn't matter. Because even if the tank spec is renamed and reworked, the class will still be a monk.

I never said all classes though.

Neither did I. I pointed at a specific example. So, I repeat: which is it? Is the monk class "devoid of personality and/or purpose in the lore"?

I think the moment when you outright said that a statement from Blizzard was a lie because YOU personally didn't believe it (and proved you wrong) made it apparent that no amount of evidence will satisfy you. The same can be said for Revenanthero who blatantly said that a tooltip didn't mean what it said it did simply because it provided him wrong. Thus, there's no point in providing evidence to either of you in these discussions. Triceron on the other hand has always been a straight shooter, so I have no problem providing evidence to him. It's really that simple.

Because you misinterpret what is written. You take vague statements that could mean more than one thing and you ascertain that they mean one thing, and one thing only.

We're not talking about classes in this case, we're talking about lore.

Doesn't matter. Blizzard does not design classes to "fix the flaws of playable races", so conjuring up bullshit lore reasons to justify why vulpera would suddenly become technological geniuses to the level of gnomes and goblins is nonsense.

If vulpera can become tinkers, then so can basically every other playable race under the sun.

[Teriz]

I did provide. I pointed you where you could find it. Again: you had no trouble perusing a different site I pointed you out to.

Like I said, not worth digging to find it if you're not willing to provide it.

It doesn't matter. Because even if the tank spec is renamed and reworked, the class will still be a monk.

Yes, a generic Monk, not the WoW variety that at least has some interesting quirky flavor to it.

Neither did I. I pointed at a specific example. So, I repeat: which is it? Is the monk class "devoid of personality and/or purpose in the lore"?

I already answered this, and once again you ignore the Druid example because it proves you wrong.

Because you misinterpret what is written. You take vague statements that could mean more than one thing and you ascertain that they mean one thing, and one thing only.

LoL! You said the Blizzard employee was LYING because he proved your assumption wrong. Please stop trying to rewrite history.

Doesn't matter. Blizzard does not design classes to "fix the flaws of playable races", so conjuring up bullshit lore reasons to justify why vulpera would suddenly become technological geniuses to the level of gnomes and goblins is nonsense.

If vulpera can become tinkers, then so can basically every other playable race under the sun.

You have no idea why Blizzard designs classes, so stop with your nonsense. Also the lore reasoning is sound; A small race that has been subjugated for centuries turns to technology in order to help protect itself under the guidance of another diminutive race that uses tech for that exact reason. Why wouldn't other races go the tech route? Because they don't need to. They have either magic or physical power to protect themselves. Further, this lore is even backed up by the resourceful/clever nature of the Vulpera race itself.

What's the problem? Hell, they can even use Junker style tech;

[Triceron]

I cannot pretend to know what the devs have planned. I do not think Tinker is off the table at all. As i said since my first post on this thread. The problem with Tinker is having an expansion theme that fits it. BfA had at least clear experiments towards it.

You have to understand that at this point we already have all the most popular fantasies. So, anything you are adding is not going to be the most popular thing ever. But, that doesn't meant that it isn't a fantasy that people want to play as. From polls, it seems to be most popular one that hasn't been added to the game yet, so it makes sense to add it eventually. New stuff is exciting. New classes are exciting and Tinker is in my view the only proposed class that has a unique theme in wow that we don't have represented in a class yet.

Polls on here.

This is not a good representation of the Warcraft fanbase as a whole.

Tinkers may be popular, but so are dozens of other concepts. Ever heard of a Dragonsworn? If you haven't then it's not very popular right?

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...venturers_are/

But 8.3k upvotes would suggest otherwise, and it's more upvotes on any class concept posted on Reddit ever. That's just one example of how a class that's rarely ever talked about here, so no one would really warrant their 'popularity'. You have to look beyond the conversations that are only happening around here to get a bigger picture of what people might actually want. Even classes like Dark Ranger and Necromancer continue to be popular despite the obvious easily-dismissable 'Their gameplay and themes are already in the game' arguments *Cough Demon Hunter Cough*

We have to explore what people actually want, and polls are only relevant to the enthusiasts who care enough to participate in the votes. If we poll here on people who play Goblins and Gnomes over people who don't, then the numbers skew in favour of Goblins and Gnomes; but the reality is the actual data has always been generally low. It reflects that we have an abnormally high pro-Gnome/Goblin representation here amongst the forum community.

Otherwise, i agree. After that the road should be class skins. But, i do think that Tinker is distinct enough to be it's own base class and i honestly don't see what class would fit as the base class for it if it were a class skin.

Gnome and Goblin Druid.

Druids use Forms, so Gnome and Goblin can adopt mechs that grant them the same tanking/healing/DPS capabilities as a Druid would in their respective forms.

Guardian = Guardian Mech, using powerful Melee attacks and short-ranged beams/rockets (Moonfire), Deflecting damage (Ironfur) and Self-Repairing (Frenzied Regen)
Balance = Artillery Mech, using Heat and Exhaust (Sun and Moon) to balance between Explosive Rockets and Laser Beams. Even Force of Nature can be retooled to summon Clockwerk Goblins.
Resto = Medic Mech, sending out drones that swirl around and heal over time, or dousing allies with chemicals and healing salves for a nice burst heal
Feral = Shredder Mech, the buzz-saw laden Robo Goblin type for melee DPS. Plenty of Bleeds, plenty of burst damage, and a built in Invisomatic gadget that lets them stealth around.

Any gameplay you could think of that's unique to a Tinker that isn't already on Druids could be applied as Talent abilities. I'd say that in a world where we get Class Skins, the Talents should be the one thing that separates a Necromancer from a Warlock or a Spellbreaker from a Paladin, and be generally rebalanced equally across the board for all classes/specs. An example would be Force of Nature retooled into Pocket Factory, and instead of summoning 3 Treants it would summon waves of individual Clockwerk Goblins that would output minimal damage, but lets you detonate them all for some burst damage.

Of course, people will still pick the BIS min-max builds, so that's gonna be expected no matter what class or balance changes are added in the game, and this already affects things like Racials. The point is that the general balance of the classes would stay generally the same with the addition of Class Skins, and this opens up more Race/Class comboes while maintaining race themes, since Gnome and Goblin Druid wouldn't make much sense anyways.

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Nice assumption, but Blizzard has stated in the past that expansion theme comes first

Which goes to say it doesn't bode well for the Tinker who doesn't have a theme that is worth revolving an entire expansion around. They're kind of the every-man class that can get shoehorned into any theme, but outside of Hearthstone or Heroes of the Storm, likely won't get its own Mecha-themed expansion in WoW.

That's why Class Skins would work, because you'd be able to add a bunch of new class concepts that don't really fit individually the way we got Allied Races with stuff like Mag'har, Lightforged and Highmountains who don't really have a strong expansion theme or general popularity to warrant being an Expansion feature individually. Tinkers just don't have the selling power that we'd like them to, especially if Gnome and Goblin only.

[Syegfryed]

This lore has existed since Warcraft 3 and TBC.

there was no lore saying illidan could have not trained other races, simple as that

No. No, it cannot. Because the lore of technology is that it is ALREADY available to all races.

you are oversimplifying a playable class to "technology is accessible to everyone" like saying anyone can be a top hacker just because anyone have a computer and internet

Considering Illidan is xenophobic, why would he? Again, Kael'Thas had to practically strong-arm Illidan.

they write him to be like that, nothing in wc3 showed illidan as xenophobic, he fucking female humans in black temple also contradict this

The goal of existing demon hunters. Again, there is no reason to create more demon hunters. There is no reason why one would want to become a demon hunter. Especially when there are less dangerous ways one could go to protect Azeroth.

you are again, ignoring the fact that there still dangerous threats to azeroth that The demon hunters can aid, so there is totally reason for then to boost their numbers to help in their tasks, just like DKs

there was less dangerous ways to fight the legion instead of being a DH but they did anyway, lets not be hypocrite here and say now its "too far"

Zero double standards, because the demon hunters are nowhere near the "only" defenders of Azeroth, and not even the most powerful.

no one is talking about "the only ones" or "more powerful" the double standard is you being ok in locking one class by X reasons and not the other excluding those very X reasons

And, again, on top of that, being a demon hunter comes with powerful drawbacks.

totally pointless

Irrelevant. A race, as a whole, doesn't have to have "oriented" toward something to be able to do said something.

except elves and DH am i right? again double standards

But you are obviously confusing things, i never said it you have, the point is sometimes a class is more oriented to a race, and only those races can be that class, it was the case of druids being restrict to night elves and taurens only, only later they change that

same way druids are not for everyone, despite most of other races using nature magic

I never said that. I simply said that it's a training with a high mortality rate, which is just another reason why it makes no sense right now to make more demon hunters today.

just because there is a high mortality rate don't mean it don't make sense to train more

do you seen the world? sylvanas just shatter the barrier between realms, the world is in jeopardy, training high elite soldiers is a logic thing to do

No, it cannot. Because:
• Gnomes and goblins, unlike Illidan, see no problem in teaching their knowledge and skills to the other races

nonsense

the same way they write illidan to be xenophobic they could write the goblins and gnomes to be more recluse to their most prized secrets and tools

• Learning engineering is not a process with "high mortality rates which still leaves you having to fight daily for our sanity if you survive"

this thing that you are putting up of high mortality is totally pointless, is like saying it make no sense to create more DKs, and here you got more

And again, isn't so simple as "learning engineering" you are over simplifying.

[Teriz]

Which goes to say it doesn't bode well for the Tinker who doesn't have a theme that is worth revolving an entire expansion around.

Which is entirely your opinion. Blizzard decides what theme is worth an entire expansion revolving around, not any of us. Blizzard can have an expansion revolving around Murlocs, and a class called the Murloc knight and we'd all have to grin and bear it.

Right off the top of my head, Undermine is an entire continent ruled by Goblins and is the site of the Tinker union. That could kick off an underground-base expansion with several story options. This is further backed up with the fact that Undermine was a planned continent in Vanilla WoW.

[Shiza]

According to the polls, they would.

You mean the polls which you don't undertand are not representative as they overrepresent goblin and gnome players?

But yeah, I'm pretty sure that Blizzard sees Mekkatorque as their top seller. Which is why they chose him to be the face of an expansion and gave him the lead in multiple cinematics while Sylvanas storyline resolved in an optional allied race quest...oh wait!

[VinceVega]

Not timeskip guys. Look Bellulars Interview with Ion

[Unholyground]

We need 4th specs for all the classes like these ones I came up with. We need more roles for pure DPS, the fact that there are still classes with only 1 role actually hurts the game and groups.

Death Knight: Spirit (Healer/DPS hybrid utilizing spectral energy, defeated enemies fuel your spirit runes allowing your attacks to create healing pools of spectral energy under your allies, you also get a skeletal healer to aid you...)

Demon Hunter: Soulreaper (DPS where you siphon the very life essence of your enemies and sacrifice your own to do damage to enemies in melee or at a distance for massive damage, you gain access to Polearms, 2Handed Swords, and 2Handed Axes...)

Druid: (Since Druid already have their 4th spec they would get some unique new form options some other stuff, one of which is a new tier of talents replacing the affinity talent tier which would then become an extra talent tier available to all specs...)

Hunter: Savagery (Tank that utilizes bestial aspects to empower you and your pet. Your pet is an extension of yourself including the pain you experience and damage is distributed among all summoned pets. This spec would utilize traps in more unique ways...)

Mage: Chronology (Healing that manipulates time allowing them to rewind damage done create arcane barriers that detonate for damage when depleted and in some cases prevent and rewind a death completely...)

Monk: Firedancing (DPS that mixes fire and nature into powerful blasts of energy leaving behind negative effects for enemies and beneficial effects for allies...)

Paladin: Divinity (DPS where the paladin has mastered casting powerful light based spells at a range, these spells gain more power based on the holy power spent, you gain access to Staves...)

Priest: Zealotry (Tank where You gain an almost godlike will increasing your attack power based on your intelligence, and additional health, armor and damage reduction. Your melee attacks are charged with holy powers that weaken and ensnare your foes, you gain the ability to use Polearms, 2Handed Swords, and 2Handed Axes...)

Rogue: Dervish (Tank where you frequently avoid both melee and magical damage greatly aggravating your foes every time they fail to land an attack, fueling your strikes and bolstering your defenses. You also gain access to cobra venom, a poison that has a chance to splatter in the eyes of your enemies when you attack causing them moderate nature damage and a weak damage over time which gives them a 5% chance to miss you completely with their spells and attacks...)

Shaman: Earthwarden (Tank that utilizes the earth beneath you as a defense pulling up stone and rubble from the ground around you bolstering your defenses and weakening your foes, as an Earthwarden you gain the ability to imbue your shield much like your weapons with special primordial/defensive magics for the situation at hand...)

Warlock: Dreadnaught (Tank that uses shadow, fear and fel fire to bolster their defenses, they gain access to most melee weapons and the ability to dual wield, they also frequently ingest demons blood to boost these effects. This spec also has a special imp that does minor damage, periodically heals you, and prevents any damage that would otherwise kill you once and a while...)

Warrior: Gladiator (DPS hybrid where you use a Shield and 2Handed weapon to dish out massive damage and reduce the damage your allies take through your various special shouts and battle flags...)

I could come up with much more detailed fleshed out ideas within the specs I have there but it is basically that easy, and then you iterate on them as you develop each one.

[Shiza]

Which is entirely your opinion. Blizzard decides what theme is worth an entire expansion revolving around, not any of us. Blizzard can have an expansion revolving around Murlocs, and a class called the Murloc knight and we'd all have to grin and bear it.

Right off the top of my head, Undermine is an entire continent ruled by Goblins and is the site of the Tinker union. That could kick off an underground-base expansion with several story options. This is further backed up with the fact that Undermine was a planned continent in Vanilla WoW.

I mean, looking at Blizzard chosing to focus on popular characters like Sylvanas Windrunner and Illidan Stormrage, especially when it comes to advertizing an expansion, I think they get the community better than you. If Gallywix and Mekkatorque would be in any shape or form popular or iconic for the playerbase, wouldn't they take a more front and center stage in the main narrative instead of their stories being resolved in heritage Armor quests or allied race quests?

If you look at forums, it seems like Sylvanas is incredibly popular. Blizzard who have all the data seem to consider Sylvanas a popular and iconic character, considering how she was a central character in 3 expansion cinematics so far. So why do you think people would rather engage in the fantasy of being rather unpopular niche characters than one of the most popular Warcraft Icons right after the likes of Arthas and Illidan?

Especially since if we look at expansion classes, the two classes who were based on Arthas and Illidan did well. The class who was designed after a niche character was not.

[Triceron]

Which is entirely your opinion. Blizzard decides what theme is worth an entire expansion revolving around, not any of us. Blizzard can have an expansion revolving around Murlocs, and a class called the Murloc knight and we'd all have to grin and bear it.

Right off the top of my head, Undermine is an entire continent ruled by Goblins and is the site of the Tinker union. That could kick off an underground-base expansion with several story options. This is further backed up with the fact that Undermine was a planned continent in Vanilla WoW.

It seems Blizzard has already shown that they've decided it's not worth doing an Undermine expansion over an Alternate Reality Draenor, a Legion Invasion, a World War expansion, and now venturing into Shadowlands. I've made this point as far back as 6 years ago when this whole topic of Tinkers came up, that their ties to Goblins and Gnomes ultimately holds them back, and so far I don't think that's only opinion since what we're seeing is pretty indicative of this.

We even got Junker Gnomes and Vulpera added recently, and a whole Mech-centric subzone. It was all set up so that we could easily transition into Tinkers. So where are they now? Why pass up this opportunity and wait for a next-next expansion? We even just came off of an expansion that added Island Expeditions, and exploring multiple new island continents. It seems like this would be the ideal time to unveil this Undermine expansion instead of Shadowlands.

[TheRevenantHero]

Can you name a single example of a Gnome or Goblin lore character that is a warrior? Think about it, all of the prominent Gnome and Goblin lore characters fight inside mechs.



There's a difference between saying that *I* said something, and having me dig through lore documents just to find a statement that you'll dismiss like you did with Metamorphosis turning a DH into a demon, or like Ielenia did when they dismissed the statement of Blizzard themselves.

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I'll pass, thanks.




And WoW's variation of the Monk revolves around Brews.



I've already explained this and showed why Druids are a more apt example. Again, if all Druid races had the same forms, they would also appear generic.

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Nice assumption, but Blizzard has stated in the past that expansion theme comes first, and then they see if there's a class that fits that expansion's theme. So, Blizzard wanted a death-based themed expansion, and then they considered if there was a class that fit that theme. There was no such class so they decided to just expand the DK. Obviously, a technology class based around Goblins and Gnomes doesn't fit a death-themed expansion full of angels, demons, and necromancers. If anything, the lack of a Necromancer class pretty much signals the end of that concept being a potential class.

Further, Blizzard has never stated that they're done creating classes for WoW. In fact, their Shadowlands announcement all but confirmed that there will be future classes for the game.

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Oh, and since Ielenia and Revenanthero want to complain about me not providing a link, I'll provide one for you Triceron, since you haven't burned that bridge (yet) ;

https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/04/b...d-a-new-class/

You are once again being a tremendous hypocrite. you said NPCs didn't matter and now you want NPC examples of goblins and gnome warriors. Whether or not there are any NPCs is 100% irrelevant. If your logic about them being tinkers because they are physically weak held any water then they wouldn't have access to warrior. The fact that you're saying it's basically not canon means that any race can be tinkers despite there being no NPCs from other races being Tinkers. Hilarious how you literally disprove your own points.

[Trazzle]

Hey look the same haters are back to harass Teriz for literally anything he says!

[willtron]

I'm not wrong. I'm right. That's what the Warcraft setting is: high fanasy.

The overwhelming majority of the settings of this game, like 80% or so, is not about technology, but "sword and sorcery".

It's further represented in the class selection options, too.

No you are wrong. It was high fantasy but it has been shifting from that for quite a while, and even in vanilla there were a lot of tech influenced bits. Theres literally no point listing it all but, Dwarvern tanks, Black Wing Lair, Gnomeregan, X52 & basically all of Netherstorm, Manabombs, Wintergrasp, virtually all of WoD show cases of advances in technology within the game.

Some people really get overly defensive about this stuff, the insecurity is actually quite hilarious. At this point I want the class because of how much it'll piss people off mroe than I actually want to play one.