Best way to bring out the stars in the Kaldorei (Children of the Stars)?

[yana]

I.....would read Shadows Rising.

- - - Updated - - -



Bloodborne or elf-elves?

well i guess night plus day means twilight.
so a twilight bloodborne elf species.

[Aresk]

I'm really confused by this OP. Why are they forgetting about being children of the stars when you literally give a bunch of examples of stars showing up in their culture? They're clearly tied to calling upon the stars in their druidic practice. Stars are far less relevant in more mage-oriented arcane practices, with arcane mages having no real link to them. We do have the Highborne Court of Stars, but not everyone in the court was a mage, so there doesn't seem to be a real link to stars and arcane mage practices in Night Elf/Nightborne society.

There's a clear link between stars and night, night and the moon, the moon and Elune. While the literal translation of Kal'dorei is "Children of the Stars," they've been colloquially referred to as night elves, not star elves, because the night is their identity. We get the moon in their wells, in their worship. We get the stars in their druidic practices (particularly with the glyph) and their priest practices (until WotLK). While I think it would be fun to have more star powers for night elf characters, that seems like a very different direction from what Blizzard wants to do, with their removing the racial priest spells instead of adding racial spells to other classes.

Honestly, I think having some more racial customization options could be cool, and we haven't seen the night elf heritage armor, so there could be some star motifs in that. In the interim, we still have toys that one can use to give literal stars following your character around, so I think that's a good interim measure for adding more stars to an individual character.

I would like more of the farstrider side to show up - they look so cool, and carry out the wood elf vibe better than nelves.

I can't agree with this more. The Quel'dorei were initially best known for their rangers, with spellcasters only showing up in WC3. I feel like for something that was so core to their initial identity, there should be more focus on it in the game.

[ravenmoon]

@EnigmAddict You're a funny guy, you're okay about Blodoelves being about magic, the arcnae, as well as the forest and ranging , and the light, but you criticise night elves being anything outside the forest.

you're allowed to find other thigns cool about the blood elves, but I'm not allowed to find other thigns in the night elves' lore cool? (like the arcane and the stars bit)

[yana]

I'm really confused by this OP. Why are they forgetting about being children of the stars when you literally give a bunch of examples of stars showing up in their culture? They're clearly tied to calling upon the stars in their druidic practice. Stars are far less relevant in more mage-oriented arcane practices, with arcane mages having no real link to them. We do have the Highborne Court of Stars, but not everyone in the court was a mage, so there doesn't seem to be a real link to stars and arcane mage practices in Night Elf/Nightborne society.

There's a clear link between stars and night, night and the moon, the moon and Elune. While the literal translation of Kal'dorei is "Children of the Stars," they've been colloquially referred to as night elves, not star elves, because the night is their identity. We get the moon in their wells, in their worship. We get the stars in their druidic practices (particularly with the glyph) and their priest practices (until WotLK). While I think it would be fun to have more star powers for night elf characters, that seems like a very different direction from what Blizzard wants to do, with their removing the racial priest spells instead of adding racial spells to other classes.

Honestly, I think having some more racial customization options could be cool, and we haven't seen the night elf heritage armor, so there could be some star motifs in that. In the interim, we still have toys that one can use to give literal stars following your character around, so I think that's a good interim measure for adding more stars to an individual character.



I can't agree with this more. The Quel'dorei were initially best known for their rangers, with spellcasters only showing up in WC3. I feel like for something that was so core to their initial identity, there should be more focus on it in the game.

they dont want anything that is actualy doable, they want nightborne folded into the night elves and arent capable of articulating their opinions and desires in a way that is simple, direct and actually possible

[ravenmoon]

Then let's agree to disagree. I DID make a point pages ago that said (to rephrase it) that Blizzard has developed the star theme and put it on the Nightborne. You don't like or accept that, or so I understand from what you've said. I think that what you're asking for is already in the game. You want something else.

I don't think they developed the star theme at all on the nightborne. It's a night elf city, so sure they have star motiffs on it and a few indications, but it's neither prominent nor anything in the culture that speaks loudly to it. The arcane mastery of the nighte lves is the prominent feature there. If the Nightborne were to continue along their kaldorei roots, then it would be welcome to have it there and in the night elves =.

- - - Updated - - -

they dont want anything that is actualy doable, they want nightborne folded into the night elves and arent capable of articulating their opinions and desires in a way that is simple, direct and actually possible

I think you've got your order mixed up, Nightborne are a part of the night elves, not hte other way around. Nightborne are a special night elven group who've developed physcial differences, but still in the night elf category. I am focusing on night elves and wanting more out of the night elves from their lore and description, for Night elves.

I personally don't mind if Nightborne get some of it, they are afterall from the same group, but my focus is night elves. Yana, I know you're a horde fan and joining the other horde fans on here, the only Alliance player NElf fan in disagreement here is Isilrien, the rest of you seem to me like you're backing each other up and missing the point entirely.

[yana]

I don't think they developed the star theme at all on the nightborne. It's a night elf city, so sure they have star motiffs on it and a few indications, but it's neither prominent nor anything in the culture that speaks loudly to it. The arcane mastery of the nighte lves is the prominent feature there. If the Nightborne were to continue along their kaldorei roots, then it would be welcome to have it there and in the night elves =.

- - - Updated - - -


I think you've got your order mixed up, Nightborne are a part of the night elves, not hte other way around. Nightborne are a special night elven group who've developed physcial differences, but still in the night elf category. I am focusing on night elves and wanting more out of the night elves from their lore and description, for Night elves.

I personally don't mind if Nightborne get some of it, they are afterall from the same group, but my focus is night elves. Yana, I know you're a horde fan and joining the other horde fans on here, the only Alliance player NElf fan in disagreement here is Isilrien, the rest of you seem to me like you're backing each other up and missing the point entirely.

and said group are all you want and more, a whole raid area DEDICATED to stars with a boss that is ALL ABOUT IT, go enjoy said group while everyone else that actualy enjoys the kaldorei for what they are, take the pedestrian "rustic" night elves with their totaly lame druids and priestess and wardens as they are, as they get development that makes sense for the larger race and not completing regressing 10 thousand years because 5 highborne suddenly gain the importance that you DREAM they would posses

its a dream because youd have to be asleep to hold such a silly and unimformed opinion, play a nightborne and take your delusions of imperialistic city elves with it, the shendralar arent even capable of creating a stable structure.

[Powerogue]

Honestly, I think having some more racial customization options could be cool, and we haven't seen the night elf heritage armor, so there could be some star motifs in that. In the interim, we still have toys that one can use to give literal stars following your character around, so I think that's a good interim measure for adding more stars to an individual character.

Considering the pattern of existing racial armors I'd expect a more radically stylized version of the armor seen here and in the in-game soldiers we see dotted around the darkshore warfront and other fights. Think the way the tauren heritage is a stylized and exaggerated version of what's also seen here (though maybe they can avoid going quite as crazy with the feathers):

[yana]

if you want sparkly additions, you can make an argument about bio luminiscent markings, but magical sparkle thats a nightborne thing and you need to give it up lol

[Specialka]

I don't think they developed the star theme at all on the nightborne. It's a night elf city, so sure they have star motiffs on it and a few indications, but it's neither prominent nor anything in the culture that speaks loudly to it. The arcane mastery of the nighte lves is the prominent feature there. If the Nightborne were to continue along their kaldorei roots, then it would be welcome to have it there and in the night elves =.

- - - Updated - - -


I think you've got your order mixed up, Nightborne are a part of the night elves, not hte other way around. Nightborne are a special night elven group who've developed physcial differences, but still in the night elf category. I am focusing on night elves and wanting more out of the night elves from their lore and description, for Night elves.

I personally don't mind if Nightborne get some of it, they are afterall from the same group, but my focus is night elves. Yana, I know you're a horde fan and joining the other horde fans on here, the only Alliance player NElf fan in disagreement here is Isilrien, the rest of you seem to me like you're backing each other up and missing the point entirely.

Nightborne are not NE, not anymore. They might have been 10k years ago.

And NE should have totally banned the arcane practice from their ranks, except for Elune clergy.

[yana]

bringing the fucking highborne was the worst thign they could have done in cataclysm, they arent even cool like the dark iron, they should have been rejected and hunted down by the sentinels.
shamans and paladins were better choices to give the race a new class, not removing a 10 thousand year old ban and cultural trait, and these stupid conversations wouldnt exist

[Selastan]

[MENTION=578046]

@Selastan
i have a question for you, when you think of night elf does the opening cinmatic skimpy dressed Nelf female druid come to mind? or her sentinel version box art?
Or does male Malfurion like druid ocme to mind?

You see, I think above those two should be something more star/moon focused. I hope that if they give us a more detailed customisation for night elves they'd throw in star customisations.

Is till see the Moon Priestess and the arcane caster (Highborne or moonguard) as something that can be star'd up. in fact the stars is something that is common in ALL the night elf orders/classes/castes you name it. I know all have arcane capability/connection/aptitude, all have nature love and there is respect for Elune in all, but the degree of each of these varies enormously, I can confidently say that ALL love the stars.

Yeah, when I picture night elves the opening cinematic is kind of what I imagine. That's how they were presented in Warcraft III and at the very beginning of WoW in the cinematic. They were very much wild elves, wearing little to no clothing, living in trees. Look, I get you really like the night loving aspect of the night elves, but in that case why not roll Nightborne? I mean, the star-loving elves ARE THERE, they just aren't the faction that swears loyalty to Tyrande and the Alliance. They do worship Elune and thus have some star aesthetics, but it isn't their primary theme anymore. Nightborne on the other hand are ALL ABOUT THAT. Stars are their whole thing.

I think that, ultimately, Tyrande and therefor the Priestesses of the Moon are just the leaders of the modern night elves by tradition alone. I think that, culturally, they followed more after Malfurion. If Azshara was a devout Elune follower, I think they would have dropped her alltogether. They just wanted to abandon their old society and build anew, and Elune wasn't tied into that old society so they kept her. It was Malfurion who lead the night elves to Hyjal, where they survived. It was Malfurion's order that imprisoned Illidan and sealed the new Well of Eternity. The druids and nature are now the core of what the night elves are, and it can be hard to see the stars through the canopy of the forest.

[Isilrien]

I don't think they developed the star theme at all on the nightborne. It's a night elf city, so sure they have star motiffs on it and a few indications, but it's neither prominent nor anything in the culture that speaks loudly to it. The arcane mastery of the nighte lves is the prominent feature there. If the Nightborne were to continue along their kaldorei roots, then it would be welcome to have it there and in the night elves =...

Ok, first of all: ...seriously? I KNOW that you don't think that the Nightborne are star-themed. I can't fathom why for the life of me, and it seems that some others are in the same boat.

Second: You seem to have understood that I do not agree with you. But: I am not the only one disagreeing with you. I may be the only one foolish enough to have commented, but not all of the Alliance NE fanbase posts here on the forums or in your threads, or even reads these forums. You are way off base for lumping an entire group of people based on one person's comments.

Finally: Welcome to ignore. Despite my polite requests to not quote me, you did it anyway. My own fault for letting myself respond in the first place, I suppose.

[yana]

Tyrande: obliterates an entire area with a petryifying starlight spell into a star fall-
But its not staaaar enough, i must have the ability to look exactly like this one horde race i cant seem to come to terms with.

[Aleksej89]

Afaik kaldorei was name from before the sundering when arcane was common in elf society.

After sundering the forest/night/moon theme was a lot more popular in tyrande/furion society.

Ye sure stars were still a big part but not as important as in highborne and nightborne society.

[Mace]

Afaik kaldorei was name from before the sundering when arcane was common in elf society.

After sundering the forest/night/moon theme was a lot more popular in tyrande/furion society.

Ye sure stars were still a big part but not as important as in highborne and nightborne society.

The thing is the name didn't change after the sundering either. This indicateshat the Long vigil changes aren't race changing or identity changing ones, they fit more in line with an extended military period rather than a redefining of the night elves. Which leads me to conclude that the lack of star iconography and cultural significance is more a portrayal related and time based thing , i.e. in other words, they'll get to it.

Wow is very superficial because it's a game, it's not a novel or movie world yet, in-game it's a game world, so there are many things that don't show. The thing is many of theee responders here are judging the night elves purely based on the in game experience. They're giving the OP a hard time cos he's not agreeing with their views. The fullness of the night elves extends wellb eyond what in-game shows, although for in-game purposes they've largely been wood elf related, but overall they're not.

Any person who approaches this seriously will quickly spot the differences, and the short comings and limitations the in-game world has to actually portraying a culture and society, it cannot, nor does it aim to really except in the broadest of terms. If you are really interested in your role play , fantasy of your race or character, there is a lot of external material that provides you with a context to build on.

I am one of the few players that have delved extensively into that material, so when I talk about them on forums on my topics, I'm looking at the full scope, not just the game scope, and Iknow others have agreed with me, understanding the distinction and appreciating what they can play or imagine night elves to be.


Topics like this aim to go beyond the scope of the mmorpg game itself delving into a more realistic rendition of the world, asking questions and sometime extending to make requests and demands for the game to show or portray more of the things outlined in a race that they like or enjoy. I don't find this unreasonable, presumably if others find it irritating or unbearable, they need not respond here and allow those of us who do enjoy this sort of thing o carry on our discussion without having to justify our reasons for liking what we like about night elves or exploring how they can be further developed. WE certainly don't need the string of horde fans like Tanaria/Enigmaddict and others telling us how we should view night elves because that's how they want it to, and arguing with us over obvious thigs.


Alas, such is the case so far.

Wow's superficial, the game focuses on braod strokes, not details and fine things, sometimes it does, with only the art reflecting it or an emote, it's all you get, but it hints to so mch more, we know this because in some case, like the night elves, when you delve into the lorey ou see the so much more in the novels, but not always, even they can be superficial.


They need a game book like the old rpg books that delve into details and customs that explain some of these visuals in game, emotes and iconography bu also expand the unique and peculiar yet wonderful lives of the many races in warcarft.

Such a thing can seriously boost the fantasy role play of players like myself who want to build worlds and stories for our adventurers and where such details are actually intriguing and fascinating.

- - - Updated - - -

bringing the fucking highborne was the worst thign they could have done in cataclysm, they arent even cool like the dark iron, they should have been rejected and hunted down by the sentinels.
shamans and paladins were better choices to give the race a new class, not removing a 10 thousand year old ban and cultural trait, and these stupid conversations wouldnt exist

That's your opinion, you're no into night elves and the alliance anyway. And while you can have an opinion, hose of us who like the night elves, have many who disagree with you on that.

You should ask yourself why it irritates you so much, all the aspects of the night elves before they re-joined are still there - why all the swearing and anger?

If you actually understood night elf lore, you'd know this is a major part of the race's history and set up, and you don't have to like it, but it is. So are the naga and satyr, as well as the Nightborne, the demonhunters, the wardens etc - if you only like the sentinels good for you, they haven't changed, don't piss on other aspects so easily, some of us like those things.

[ravenmoon]

Yeah, when I picture night elves the opening cinematic is kind of what I imagine. That's how they were presented in Warcraft III and at the very beginning of WoW in the cinematic. They were very much wild elves, wearing little to no clothing, living in trees. Look, I get you really like the night loving aspect of the night elves, but in that case why not roll Nightborne? I mean, the star-loving elves ARE THERE, they just aren't the faction that swears loyalty to Tyrande and the Alliance. They do worship Elune and thus have some star aesthetics, but it isn't their primary theme anymore. Nightborne on the other hand are ALL ABOUT THAT. Stars are their whole thing.

I think that, ultimately, Tyrande and therefor the Priestesses of the Moon are just the leaders of the modern night elves by tradition alone. I think that, culturally, they followed more after Malfurion. If Azshara was a devout Elune follower, I think they would have dropped her alltogether. They just wanted to abandon their old society and build anew, and Elune wasn't tied into that old society so they kept her. It was Malfurion who lead the night elves to Hyjal, where they survived. It was Malfurion's order that imprisoned Illidan and sealed the new Well of Eternity. The druids and nature are now the core of what the night elves are, and it can be hard to see the stars through the canopy of the forest.

i do play Nightborne, have 2 at max level around 477 and 450 ivl, and I main a night elf druid. Is it hard to understand I like the kaldorei Highborne and Moonguard fantasy? That Nightborne to me doesn't feel the same because of their story... a group of Night elves who did some unique things with the Nightwell under a shield then made the decisions they did - I wrote a little bit about my feelings concerning them and the horde and the reason I wasn't so hot on them is how their narrative has been written since choosing to join the horde.

Yet it's not the only thing, the Highborne and the Moonguard represent a version of night elf that the Nightborne elite and Duskguard are no longer, so I often like that fantasy they represent, and I like to see more of it there.


It doesn't stop me from having desires and things I'd like to see with the Nightborne. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I don't appreciate some of these other guys trying to make us feel like we have no right to like what we like or wnat to see more of it. It's totally arrogant and effectively bullying. I appreciate Nightborne for what they are, but doesn't change the things in the night elves like. But they're okay with me liking anything but the arcane side or star side of the night elves? it's a bit of a nonsense, so ofc i'm not listening.

- - - Updated - - -

Tyrande: obliterates an entire area with a petryifying starlight spell into a star fall-
But its not staaaar enough, i must have the ability to look exactly like this one horde race i cant seem to come to terms with.

Did you even read the topic?

[Powerogue]

if you want sparkly additions, you can make an argument about bio luminiscent markings, but magical sparkle thats a nightborne thing and you need to give it up lol

If they made those new tattoo options on the face and body light up whenever it's night time in game that would both be rad as hell and Dragon Prince already stole the idea.

[Alanar]

Ok, first of all: ...seriously? I KNOW that you don't think that the Nightborne are star-themed. I can't fathom why for the life of me, and it seems that some others are in the same boat.

Second: You seem to have understood that I do not agree with you. But: I am not the only one disagreeing with you. I may be the only one foolish enough to have commented, but not all of the Alliance NE fanbase posts here on the forums or in your threads, or even reads these forums. You are way off base for lumping an entire group of people based on one person's comments.

Finally: Welcome to ignore. Despite my polite requests to not quote me, you did it anyway. My own fault for letting myself respond in the first place, I suppose.

Ravenmoon doesn't quite understand the fact that 99% here hates hes idea and thinks Nightborne are their own thing. H e keeps pushing hes agenda until people put him on ignore, I tried to be polite many times to ALSO stop queting me, but I think he just thrives off these threads... sad story realy.

He hates when I say 99%, he think I made an gross mistake on these numbers.. , but like these threads always end with ravenmoon and Mace debating against eachother, when hes the only one supportive of the thread, so we are talking about 2 vs the rest. That is 99% realy.. Hes delusional at best.

[ravenmoon]

Ok, first of all: ...seriously? I KNOW that you don't think that the Nightborne are star-themed. I can't fathom why for the life of me, and it seems that some others are in the same boat.

They have a measure of it, because they're kaldorei, it's clear, but the whole distinguishing thing about them is that they're under total night - not starlit night, this is what makes them Nightborne instead of night elves.

Ofc they are no longer a shiled now, so how they go forward, whether more towards their kaldorei identity or drifting away into blood elf sidekick/clones/bootlickers is up to the deves.

Second: You seem to have understood that I do not agree with you. But: I am not the only one disagreeing with you. I may be the only one foolish enough to have commented, but not all of the Alliance NE fanbase posts here on the forums or in your threads, or even reads these forums. You are way off base for lumping an entire group of people based on one person's comments.

You know I don't care for mosto f these other guys' disagreements right? They're all horde Belf fans who've had the same isuse over several topics - they only want to see night elves as 100% forest elven, savage elves - and they have an agenda, I've been arguing with them along with a few others, and you see it come off very clearly, they have no regard for what others think outside what they want for the night elf race they don't particularly care about.

So my response to them is pretty much the same, they come on here repeating the same arguments from previous posts that are not even related to the topic at hand, and they are the majority answering here like they have some massive issue. I'm making my topic about what I enjoy and want to see, they're coming on here to tell me night elves are forest elves I should get over it.. i mean, they feel the need to do so every time i post about night elves, even when that's not the focus of my topic? Do you not smell something fishy here? Or were you not around to see the same tactics employed every time "high Elf" was mentioned by roughly the same group of people...

Finally: Welcome to ignore. Despite my polite requests to not quote me, you did it anyway. My own fault for letting myself respond in the first place, I suppose.

That is the appropriate thing to do with people you don't want to hear from or about. You ignore them, so you're not triggered by them. I've only ever done that with one forum user here, but that's cos he got abusive, verbally, I do not do that with the others, because I can't help but respond to their trolling, even when I know it's trolling.

But yeh, ignore is the right thing to do, if they were actually that disturbed by what I was saying they would have either ignored me like you are doing or just not responded, they have an agenda - and no, it doesn't need to be some super focused or co-ordinated thing either, just like minded individuals who don't want alliance night elves recapturing any of their lore assets in game and quite happy to negative post bomb any topic that dares suggest it, just like they did for high elves, except ofc it's meaningless here, because Highborne are already playable, night elves have an arcane identity and legacy as well as lore and history, and the Nightborne do not replace any of it, more like they're just a version of it playable on the horde.

It makes sense in this partisan climate dominating America and the West, that many of these guys are going to have these attitudes based on faction. This is why Night elf assets when they show up visibly on the Nightborne are argued against when night elf fans want said night elf assets already a part of night elf lore visible on the night elves. If you ask yourself what's my big deal, surely you should ask yourself what's their big deal?

It's night elf stuff, so what if the Nightborne have some of it, it doesn't make it taboo for night elves to have and for night elf fans not to want to see more of it in game for them. If i were going on about the Draenei having more galactic adventures and more Light and spaceship action, do you think they'd be arguing this ferociously that that's the purview of the Lightforged only? ofc not, because it would be a silly thing to argue against, so why are they making the argument like this for Nightborne? Think? it's the high elf thing all over again - hordies think it belongs to them, don't want the alliance to have it, nothing else.

This is why they're invading every night elf topic and bringing this point around - they're trolling Nelf fans who are into this, and trying to make it seem like everybody thinks so , when it's largely them, and yes they are often the same bunch on the elf threads. Horde Blood elf fans all. don't let the odd Nightborne (Rhlor) or Zin'Azshari (Tanaria) avatar fool you. - I mean Tanaria created Tanaria just to focus on this and nothing else, and you can track it since her first post to current.

it' just what they do.

- - - Updated - - -

Ravenmoon doesn't quite understand the fact that 99% here hates hes idea and thinks Nightborne are their own thing. H e keeps pushing hes agenda until people put him on ignore, I tried to be polite many times to ALSO stop queting me, but I think he just thrives off these threads... sad story realy.

He hates when I say 99%, he think I made an gross mistake on these numbers.. , but like these threads always end with ravenmoon and Mace debating against eachother, when hes the only one supportive of the thread, so we are talking about 2 vs the rest. That is 99% realy.. Hes delusional at best.

Ravenmoon fully understands that the 99% haters are horde fan supporters -- while Isilrien is not one of you, most of you are hordies. Ask yourself why this troubles you so much? Why you keep feeling the need to tell me what night elves who you don't care that much about actually are, I mean constnatly, regardless of anything I say? And while the other henchmen do likewise?

[Isilrien]

Ravenmoon doesn't quite understand the fact that 99% here hates hes idea and thinks Nightborne are their own thing. H e keeps pushing hes agenda until people put him on ignore, I tried to be polite many times to ALSO stop queting me, but I think he just thrives off these threads... sad story realy.

He hates when I say 99%, he think I made an gross mistake on these numbers.. , but like these threads always end with ravenmoon and Mace debating against eachother, when hes the only one supportive of the thread, so we are talking about 2 vs the rest. That is 99% realy.. Hes delusional at best.

Thanks for the supportive response, Alanar. I've learned my lesson to not respond to certain comments (or so I hope). I can't comment on the rest of what you've said, so I'll leave it at that