There's going to be a serious Black Lotus shortage for AQ40 and Naxx

[Hinastorm]

There's only one question that comes into my mind. If classic is "so easy", why everybody wants a flask? Especially since this Black Lotus thing is so fucking retarded...

Because classic wow has become wholesale infected by tryhards, who spend 2-3 hours gathering world buffs to shave off 20 mins of a 1 hour raid, even when they aren't speedrunning it.

It's pretty stupid, but hey, not like there is much to play in the mmo space right now.

[Shalaator]

There's only one question that comes into my mind. If classic is "so easy", why everybody wants a flask? Especially since this Black Lotus thing is so fucking retarded...

Because if you don't flask and get world buffs, and do less damage/healing than all the others that are flasking and world buffing...you get replaced by another person that does. It's that simple.

Flasking and world buffing is not a "choice" any more than the covenant you'll be forced to pick in Shadowlands (retail) based on your class/spec. World of Warcraft Vanilla was a game of inclusion; Modern Vanilla (Classic) is a game of Exclusion...even if a modern classic player performs twice as good as an average player from vanilla, good enough to clear naxx...they'll still be removed from raid (and possibly guild) for being last on the dps/healing charts.

- - - Updated - - -

... for logs? To show off?

Yes for logs. It's forced, not an option. The guy who bottoms out logs (doesn't flask, world buff, etc) will be replaced by someone that does...immediately.

[Mosotti]

Because if you don't flask and get world buffs, and do less damage/healing than all the others that are flasking and world buffing...you get replaced by another person that does. It's that simple.

Nothing is simply, why would you even play a game you don't enjoy, just to give in for some fucking retard who wants you to do stupid content you don't like and spend more time to get buffs than you save by having the buffs?

[Arainie]

Yes for logs. It's forced, not an option. The guy who bottoms out logs (doesn't flask, world buff, etc) will be replaced by someone that does...immediately.

That's "your" choice. Don't play with people who behave like Apes if you don't want to live with the expectations Apes put on other Apes. It's a (small part of the) community made problem that shouldn't require a change to the game, especially not as the vast majority of that (small part of the) commuinty has been parroting #nochanges in their toxic crusade since it was announced.

Inb4 a mod bans me thinking I'm calling people monkeys... <Apes>

[Mendzia]

Because if you don't flask and get world buffs, and do less damage/healing than all the others that are flasking and world buffing...you get replaced by another person that does. It's that simple.

In my guild there are many people that are getting buffs but everyone who will be playing active can join.
WBs/flasks are not requirement but if you get them it will be significant in decisions about loot (but the attendance is still much more important).
There is no fear that you will be replaced for not having them by someone else.

Flasking and world buffing is not a "choice" any more than the covenant you'll be forced to pick in Shadowlands (retail) based on your class/spec. World of Warcraft Vanilla was a game of inclusion; Modern Vanilla (Classic) is a game of Exclusion...even if a modern classic player performs twice as good as an average player from vanilla, good enough to clear naxx...they'll still be removed from raid (and possibly guild) for being last on the dps/healing charts.

I can partially agree but there is difference between having/not having WBs in Classic and picking correct/incorrect covenant.

[Dioporco]

As of right now (when flasks are not necessary), my guild wants to flask to speed clear Molten Snore in 30ish minutes.

your guild is dumb

[Jurwi]

Vanilla Black Lotus supply doesn't meet Classic demand on modern "medium" and "high" pop servers.

Hopefully Blizzard will implement the Pserver fix with 50+ BL spawn locations and decreased respawn times.



--------------------------
Edit:
As of right now (when flasks are not necessary), my guild wants to flask to speed clear Molten Snore in 30ish minutes.

But there's not enough SUPPLY to meet the DEMAND!

We want to flask...we all have the gold to buy a 150-200g flask...but there' snot enough flasks or lotus on the AH to make this possible...even though we all have the gold to buy it...

this is the problem.


(also we want to flask for WSG premades...we got the gold...but there's nothing on the AH).

Farm Black Lotuses and craft those flasks then. I'm fairly sure a big reason for the lack of supply in AH is because lots of guilds keep the Lotuses and craft flasks with them instead of selling them.

[ryjkur]

... for logs? To show off?

People like parsing in classic, using warcraftlogs is spreading to retail too

[fohpo]

Farm Black Lotuses and craft those flasks then. I'm fairly sure a big reason for the lack of supply in AH is because lots of guilds keep the Lotuses and craft flasks with them instead of selling them.

Or the fact that if you play on one of the monster servers, you still have tryhard apes who camp pretty much every spawn 24/7 still.

People like parsing in classic, using warcraftlogs is spreading to retail too

Think you have this backwards, parsing has continued over to classic. Worldoflogs and Warcraftlogs were not a thing during vanilla... came about halfway through WotLK.

[msdos]

Are people just bad and need to be carried with consumes? People realize we were clearing AQ without flasking right? You know, back when people were supposedly worse at the game? None of this makes any sense to me and you're gonna see guilds crumble because no one wants to meet the asinine consume requirements, it's absolutely, utterly, stupendously pointless and silly.

People would literally rather go play retail than deal with guild toxicity, those requirements are basically just toxicity. Putting clear speed above over all enjoyment? Lol?

[kenn9530]

Vanilla Black Lotus supply doesn't meet Classic demand on modern "medium" and "high" pop servers.

Hopefully Blizzard will implement the Pserver fix with 50+ BL spawn locations and decreased respawn times.



--------------------------
Edit:
As of right now (when flasks are not necessary), my guild wants to flask to speed clear Molten Snore in 30ish minutes.

But there's not enough SUPPLY to meet the DEMAND!

We want to flask...we all have the gold to buy a 150-200g flask...but there' snot enough flasks or lotus on the AH to make this possible...even though we all have the gold to buy it...

this is the problem.


(also we want to flask for WSG premades...we got the gold...but there's nothing on the AH).

Flasks are not even needed, they are just used to speed things up a little more thats it, content is not hard enough to make them needed.

[Machismo]

Because if you don't flask and get world buffs, and do less damage/healing than all the others that are flasking and world buffing...you get replaced by another person that does. It's that simple.

Flasking and world buffing is not a "choice" any more than the covenant you'll be forced to pick in Shadowlands (retail) based on your class/spec. World of Warcraft Vanilla was a game of inclusion; Modern Vanilla (Classic) is a game of Exclusion...even if a modern classic player performs twice as good as an average player from vanilla, good enough to clear naxx...they'll still be removed from raid (and possibly guild) for being last on the dps/healing charts.

- - - Updated - - -




Yes for logs. It's forced, not an option. The guy who bottoms out logs (doesn't flask, world buff, etc) will be replaced by someone that does...immediately.

Then go to a guild where it is a choice, problem solved.

[-Doko-]

If anything it sounds like your server's black lotus farmers are selling their product too cheap.

[Jastall]

Are people just bad and need to be carried with consumes? People realize we were clearing AQ without flasking right? You know, back when people were supposedly worse at the game? None of this makes any sense to me and you're gonna see guilds crumble because no one wants to meet the asinine consume requirements, it's absolutely, utterly, stupendously pointless and silly.

People would literally rather go play retail than deal with guild toxicity, those requirements are basically just toxicity. Putting clear speed above over all enjoyment? Lol?

Playing devil's advocate, what else is there but to speedrun raids when the content is so easy and there's no higher difficulty or anything like that to sink your teeth in, no auxiliary PvE activity like M+ or farming Heroics, and PvP is only rewarding if you treat it like a second job?

[Mosotti]

Well if you are into the speedrun thingy you shouldn't complain about having to do anything that's required to get the best time. That doesn't mean Blizzard should just handle the required stuff for the best speedrun, it's about you trying to use all the available mechanics, as they are, do get the best time possible. And unfortunately in WoW that means a ridiculous time sink.

[Volatilis]

Nothing is simply, why would you even play a game you don't enjoy, just to give in for some fucking retard who wants you to do stupid content you don't like and spend more time to get buffs than you save by having the buffs?

Why play classic to do the bare minimum?

That would be like restoring a dodge impala and throwing cheap oil into it. If you dont care then why are you bothering in the first place?

[Drusin]

There's only one question that comes into my mind. If classic is "so easy", why everybody wants a flask?

Bro if I could flask level 1 to quest I would

Because classic wow has become wholesale infected by tryhards, who spend 2-3 hours gathering world buffs to shave off 20 mins of a 1 hour raid, even when they aren't speedrunning it.

It's pretty stupid, but hey, not like there is much to play in the mmo space right now.

Exactly this. Before scaling, CRZ, and Heirlooms (and on classic) I used to go to the AH when I was leveling to search for greens that made me stronger for all of 4 levels till a quest item replaced it lol. Any bit of faster I can get I'll take it.

[Azadina]

Playing devil's advocate, what else is there but to speedrun raids when the content is so easy and there's no higher difficulty or anything like that to sink your teeth in, no auxiliary PvE activity like M+ or farming Heroics, and PvP is only rewarding if you treat it like a second job?

To play more devils advocate:

Player A: My god these raids are so easy...boringg!!
Player B: I know! Too easy!
Player A: Hey, I got an idea!
Player B: Yea?
Player A: We could try to get every single buff we can to run the content with.
Player B: Why bother?
Player A: To make the boringly easy snoozefest game EVEN EASIER!
Player B: ... Ingenious!!

There's ways to make too easy game harder, by starting to unequip gear, to play the least optimal specs, or any other such means. Making easy game as easy as humanly possible seems completely counter productive if it being too easy was the point of contention in the first place.

[Zarator8]

In my guild there are many people that are getting buffs but everyone who will be playing active can join.
WBs/flasks are not requirement but if you get them it will be significant in decisions about loot (but the attendance is still much more important).
There is no fear that you will be replaced for not having them by someone else.

And you don't think losing out on loot counts as a form of "soft enforcement" of world buffs?

In my guild, we use a DKP system and people are absolutely free to get wbuffs or not, it doesn't impact loot decisions at all. As for consumables, there are some which are mandatory but anything beyond that is completely up to the player. And yet, most ppl still go for the extra mile simply because they like to compete.

Though personally I can't wait for TBC to come and do away with this whole wbuff nonsense. I shouldn't have to tour Azeroth for NPC yells just to be able to compete on DPS charts.

[Mendzia]

And you don't think losing out on loot counts as a form of "soft enforcement" of world buffs?

It is your choice if you want WBs or not.

Imagine this situation:
Two warriors with similar gear, exactly same attendance and guild rank want a weapon that just dropped.
The difference is that one of them 'invested' his time before raid to get WBS and other is just 'raid logging'.
I think you can simply tell who will be getting the item.

In my guild, we use a DKP system and people are absolutely free to get wbuffs or not, it doesn't impact loot decisions at all. As for consumables, there are some which are mandatory but anything beyond that is completely up to the player. And yet, most ppl still go for the extra mile simply because they like to compete.

Personally i hate DKP system and will never ever again join any guild using it.
Just my small, personal opinion.

Though personally I can't wait for TBC to come and do away with this whole wbuff nonsense. I shouldn't have to tour Azeroth for NPC yells just to be able to compete on DPS charts.

I can't wait to TBC too.