Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Edge-]

now brisk tea is saying we need to wear goggles. what's next? a hazmat suit?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-w...l_taboola_feed

I mean, if you want to ignore the advice of experts, go for it. I'll listen to them because I'm interesting in protecting myself and those I care about around me. It's not "universally recommended", but it's an additional layer of protection should you feel it necessary.

[RaoBurning]

now brisk tea is saying we need to wear goggles. what's next? a hazmat suit?

I already bought goggles for when school/work starts back up, so... I mean yeah whatever works, brohemian rhapsody. I wore a full gore suit when I worked at Intel and hazmat suits look way less itchy.

[PACOX]

Remember kids don't catch or spread of the virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-says-n1235503

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

Kid camp in Georgia with proximity conditions similar to schools. If you didn't event infected you were in a pretty small minority.

[Edge-]

Remember kids don't catch or spread of the virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-says-n1235503

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

Kid camp in Georgia with proximity conditions similar to schools. If you didn't event infected you were in a pretty small minority.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia...irus-pandemic/

Man, it's a really good thing the governor of Georgia is working overtime to get kids and adults killed.

[Zantos]

In reality 1k people is enough to get good results, for populations of any size.

Assuming they are randomly selected, if the selection is bad the results would still be bad even if they asked 10 million Americans.

Problem is, its guaranteed to not be selected well enough though. 1k people, for example, in a republican controlled area will have a very different view point than 1k in a democratic area. That is just the nature of things. Or 1k in the north vs 1k in the south. That is why I say its not enough to generalize the us. Especially when, just in my own experience, most do think China caused it to start, but most blame our own Government for how quickly and how wide spread it is. It doesn't matter where it originated. China isn't the one calling the shots on American soil. That is the key aspect most need to see. But, a lot of people do enjoy pointing fingers while not actually trying to solve the problem.

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https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-w...l_taboola_feed

I mean, if you want to ignore the advice of experts, go for it. I'll listen to them because I'm interesting in protecting myself and those I care about around me. It's not "universally recommended", but it's an additional layer of protection should you feel it necessary.

To be fair, if everyone wore masks properly, and wore effective ones at that, googles wouldn't have anything to do. Googles would be there for you, not others. So, the opposite of masks. It would try to limit the passage into your eyes to get you sick that way. Just gotta get people to actually use their masks properly.

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As linked by Popular Mechanics: a physical demonstration on the effectiveness of masks.

We already know medical grade masks are good. Should be doing tests with mask types that the general public will actually be able to get a hold of and use. Some comments also pointed out that he may not have used a new mask with each test. Which would have made the mask damp and basically, unable to breath through. Interesting test though

[Forogil]

Remember kids don't catch or spread of the virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-says-n1235503

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

Kid camp in Georgia with proximity conditions similar to schools. If you didn't event infected you were in a pretty small minority.

What some of us argue isn't that kids don't catch or spread the virus, but that school closures should be considered together with other measures and they aren't that effective - as kids spread it less (the direction of spread in this camp isn't clear), and also that closing schools will not magically stop the spread among children, and finally not stop the spread the rest in the rest of society.

A camp is also worse than normal (=non-boarding) schools and work-places in one major area: if you feel a bit unwell it's easy to stay home from school/work that day, and wait until the next day to see if it were something, whereas if you are at a camp you are more likely to hope for the best and stay there.

What we also often see is that vigorous singing is very good at spreading the virus (in church choirs in the US and other places, and at karaoke bars in S. Korea), and this camp engaged in daily vigorous singing and chanting (likely indoors as well, and not properly ventilated).

But CDC did not say anything about singing in their suggestions: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...mer-camps.html and to me either the camp was in "highest risk" category according to guidelines, as about 10% of attendees were out of state, or the guidelines were odd (if it was ok to have staff from all over the country, but campers must be local).

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Problem is, its guaranteed to not be selected well enough though. 1k people, for example, in a republican controlled area will have a very different view point than 1k in a democratic area. That is just the nature of things. Or 1k in the north vs 1k in the south. That is why I say its not enough to generalize the us.

Good pollsters have understood how to not do that and then 1k is enough as the margin of error is about 3%, and bad pollsters could find 10 million in the north or 10 million in republican areas; so large numbers aren't a guarantee.

[unfilteredJW]

So your saying that the New York area got what is deserved for playing politics also? I mean when Trump was putting up restrictions and they were swinging toward the virus, the democrats came to NYC and said it was nothing, go out, have fun, party. I live here, I watched the mayor, the Governor, Nancy Pelosi go on tv and say that the virus was just Trump and the GOP trying to distract people. I watched the local politicians tell us up here to ignore it. It wasn't going to be a problem.

You should easily be able to supply evidence of this.

[Orange Joe]

We already know medical grade masks are good. Should be doing tests with mask types that the general public will actually be able to get a hold of and use. Some comments also pointed out that he may not have used a new mask with each test. Which would have made the mask damp and basically, unable to breath through. Interesting test though

The masks he was using are sold in literally every store in my town.

[Dacien]

"I don't think I can emphasize it enough, as the director for the Centers for Disease Control, the leading public health agency in the world: it is in the public health interest that these K-12 students get the schools back open for face-to-face learning."

The above quote is from the head of the CDC, Robert Redford, so he has weighed in on the school issue. Besides being the Director of the CDC, he also directed the Milagro Beanfield War, so he has a breadth of experience.

[zorkuus]

"I don't think I can emphasize it enough, as the director for the Centers for Disease Control, the leading public health agency in the world: it is in the public health interest that these K-12 students get the schools back open for face-to-face learning."

The above quote is from the head of the CDC, Robert Redford, so he has weighed in on the school issue. Besides being the Director of the CDC, he also directed the Milagro Beanfield War, so he has a breadth of experience.

What? He's Robert Redfield. Not Redford, the movie guy.

[szechuan]

"I don't think I can emphasize it enough, as the director for the Centers for Disease Control, the leading public health agency in the world: it is in the public health interest that these K-12 students get the schools back open for face-to-face learning."

The above quote is from the head of the CDC, Robert Redford, so he has weighed in on the school issue. Besides being the Director of the CDC, he also directed the Milagro Beanfield War, so he has a breadth of experience.

Yet the research says it saved plenty of lives.

[Edge-]

"I don't think I can emphasize it enough, as the director for the Centers for Disease Control, the leading public health agency in the world: it is in the public health interest that these K-12 students get the schools back open for face-to-face learning."

The above quote is from the head of the CDC, Robert Redford, so he has weighed in on the school issue. Besides being the Director of the CDC, he also directed the Milagro Beanfield War, so he has a breadth of experience.

Different Robert Redford and Redfield are different people, my dude.

And color me skeptical given that the White House has been putting heavy pressure on the CDC to issue guidance and comments that are in-line with its political messaging. Also, some states are trying to send kids back to school/camps, it's not going well - https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-summ...s-news&via=rss

As state officials across the country scramble to solidify plans to reopen schools in the fall, a new report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analyzing the transmission rate at a Georgia overnight camp suggests that the spread of the coronavirus among students is inevitable.

The study, released Friday, analyzed 597 children and staff who attended the overnight camp between June 21 and June 27. At the end of the week, 76 percent of campers who were tested came back positive—despite the organizers following most state guidelines set by the governor and the CDC.

The camp, however, didn’t require campers to wear masks, only the staff, or open windows and doors for increased ventilation, per CDC guidelines. And it allowed attendees to engage in outdoor and indoor activities—like singing and cheering—that also contributed to the high transmission rate, the report stated.

I realize the importance of in-person learning to child development. But we simply aren't prepared for or capable of keeping kids safe if they return to school. Schools are too overcrowded to be able to safely space out. Schools are too undersupplied to be expected to be able to provide PPE etc. for children who do not have their own, teachers are already using their own salary to provide school supplies for kids.

[Gorsameth]

"I don't think I can emphasize it enough, as the director for the Centers for Disease Control, the leading public health agency in the world: it is in the public health interest that these K-12 students get the schools back open for face-to-face learning."

The above quote is from the head of the CDC, Robert Redford, so he has weighed in on the school issue. Besides being the Director of the CDC, he also directed the Milagro Beanfield War, so he has a breadth of experience.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattper.../#62ff31b5a456

Yeah I can't possible see a problem with opening up schools in the US right now....

6 days, atleast 44% of children infected.

[Dacien]

Different Robert Redford and Redfield are different people, my dude.

Oh oops, my bad, my bad.

[Acidbaron]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattper.../#62ff31b5a456

Yeah I can't possible see a problem with opening up schools in the US right now....

6 days, atleast 44% of children infected.

Facts don't matter feelings do, plus he's just doing it to bait people that's his thing. Can't even get a name right.

[Forogil]

Yet the research says it saved plenty of lives.

Why can't news organizations link to the actual studies instead of just taking parts of it?

The actual study is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2769034 and is more nuanced:

Limitations
This study has several limitations. First, many states enacted additional nonpharmaceutical interventions concurrently with or shortly after school closure, making it impossible to fully isolate potential effects of school closure.

The previous study in Europe also had a similar caveat, but in contrast to this study it didn't didn't prejudice the result by assuming that school closures was the primary factor in decreasing the spread but looked at all interventions with an open mind, and found that school closures had a minor impact.

However, a more important note for the US, is that:

School closure affects family routines, necessitating alternative childcare and modified work schedules. These changes are evident by the number of teleworkers more than doubling.
...
If the primary effect associated with school closure is related to altered adult behavior, and not children spreading the virus to adults, the primary lag period considered in these analyses should be adjusted.

If that is major reason it seems that directly going for teleworking (as some states and countries have done) is a simpler solution.

[Acidbaron]

Why can't news organizations link to the actual studies instead of just taking parts of it?

The actual study is at https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2769034 and is more nuanced:

The previous study in Europe also had a similar caveat, but in contrast to this study it didn't didn't prejudice the result by assuming that school closures was the primary factor in decreasing the spread but looked at all interventions with an open mind, and found that school closures had a minor impact.

However, a more important note for the US, is that:

If that is major reason it seems that directly going for teleworking (as some states and countries have done) is a simpler solution.

I think here come September we are not opening schools fully, we are going to split them so that some classes come on some days and some on others or some in the morning and others in the afternoon.

You have to for some courses, i don't see how you can learn a trade without hands on experience. I guess it also depends on the quality of teaching, American public schools have been defunded and destroyed so badly over the last decade that maybe an internet course would be better for those not born into privileged to get into private schools.

[Forogil]

I think here come September we are not opening schools fully, we are going to split them so that some classes come on some days and some on others or some in the morning and others in the afternoon.

That is also a possibility, and for older students in Europe that also reduces overcrowding of public transports.

However, I also noticed that the article in JAMA had one comment that made a great point:

I would like to ask the authors why they decided to stop their data collection in May 2020, and if they think the massive spike in cases in the South and West this summer would change their results. It seems like the study data is too narrow to capture the results of school closures (i.e., they did not observe what happened when all schools were closed in the summer).

Do the authors worry that they may have arrived at an erroneous conclusion, and/or that these conclusions could have vast policy implications that are particularly harmful to children?
...
Signed,
A Concerned Parent of 3 Public School Children

You have to for some courses, i don't see how you can learn a trade without hands on experience. I guess it also depends on the quality of teaching, American public schools have been defunded and destroyed so badly over the last decade that maybe an internet course would be better for those not born into privileged to get into private schools.

That's also a factor, but do the kids attending those schools have good computers and internet?

[Gorsameth]

That is also a possibility, and for older students in Europe that also reduces overcrowding of public transports.

However, I also noticed that the article in JAMA had one comment that made a great point:



That's also a factor, but do the kids attending those schools have good computers and internet?

Its likely cheaper to buy a laptop for all the kids then to corona-proof the school.

[Acidbaron]

That is also a possibility, and for older students in Europe that also reduces overcrowding of public transports.

However, I also noticed that the article in JAMA had one comment that made a great point:



That's also a factor, but do the kids attending those schools have good computers and internet?

Been a while since i sat in a class room, but it also depends a bit from school to school. The one i went to was really well funded and we had decent computers that ran technical drawing programs and we had access to PLC modules from Siemens S7 even and i am speaking now of 15 years or so ago. But i know schools that had less, but even in other schools, computers were pretty much standard equipment for the classes you needed them for. So if we had that back in the early 00's it shouldn't be an issue.

The Flemish government was also handing out laptops now during the epidemic, not sure about net access at home if there was aid on it or not BUT schools remained open for those who had no internet or access to computers. So efforts are being made no kids gets left behind.

Can't comment on how efficient the efforts all were since i don't have kids and people that do have kids that i know are generally people who earn enough to supply their kids with personal computers.