Why wasn't the Void Elves held accountable for necromancy?

[Feanoro]

The reality is the explanation is Doylist. They wanted BElf models for Alliance, and any time there's a new race/class/model, they feature them for a bit as a form of advertising. If the NewThing is enough of a hit, we see it featured more. If not, it goes the way of the pandas.

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Gonna have to point out where the Alliance has ever committed genocide before.

Do you want the Hordies to stick to lore (good luck), or are you prepared for twisted things like "The Draenei are responsible for the Legion burning every world they fled to!"?

[Ardenaso]

Well, their leader is a cold-blooded sadist who tortures innocent people, cause "the end justifies the means", and Anduin doesn't mind her cruel methods because she is a "living legend" of the Alliance. Same goes with her people, I guess. Besides they are raising up dinos and not people, so who cares? This is the same as if they raised up someone's pet. Omg, how awful.

well I mean yeah, when Anduin said "don't do this don't do that or we will be as vile as the Horde" I thought it included psychological warfare

[CalamityHeart]

(disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?

To start with, I don't think the ritual that Umbric performed was technically necromantic. From what I'm reading, they only infused those "sacred" bones with the void. They didn't entrap or force any souls to do anything against their will. You know those arcane-powered golems walking around Silvermoon? It's like that, except the golem is made of dinosaur bones, in the shape of said dinosaur, and instead of powered by arcane magic, they're powered by void. Before I read up on it, I figured "Ehh, people are probably going to make some sort of argument that it's not really necromancy, when it's pretty much necromancy..." But uh... no. It's really not really necromancy. It's enchantment. Umbric describes it as such, directly. If there was any sort of "investigation" on Umbric's actions, based on what I'm looking at, they probably would've come to a similar conclusion.

Anduin has already pretty much signed off on Void usage in the name of the Alliance. He's used it himself on at least two occasions, so it's not like he's personally above it. I'm sure he knows as well as the ren'dorei themselves know that the Void is dangerous, and that if there was any indication that its usage was particularly harmful in an uncontrolled way, he'd say something about it, at the very least. But Umbric, by then, had begun to prove the worth of himself and his craft, and the relevant mission ended up being successfully and safely managed and controlled, fully to the benefit of the Alliance. No reason for Anduin to take issue or think they're going in some kind of Sylvanas-esque immoral direction.

I don't see any denouncement from the Sunreavers, or the blood elves in general, whom the ren'dorei split from, carrying too much weight with anyone in the Kirin Tor or the Argent Crusade, either. Whatever they have to say about the ren'dorei would probably be no different from what those groups would already know about them: they're void-users, and they use the void in clever ways. It's not news.

[Ardenaso]

I don't see any denouncement from the Sunreavers, or the blood elves in general, whom the ren'dorei split from, carrying too much weight with anyone in the Kirin Tor or the Argent Crusade, either. Whatever they have to say about the ren'dorei would probably be no different from what those groups would already know about them: they're void-users, and they use the void in clever ways. It's not news.

A group of Sunreavers attacked the Alliance around 8.2, I'd think they're not the only ones to do so like surely there has to be others working on a different way against the Alliance

[Klingers]

The entirety of the first and second wars, killing Cenarius, nuking Theramore, invading Gilneas, bombing Stonetalon mountains, blighting Southshore, zombifying Hillsbrad, sacking Astranaar, burning Telsrassil, deforesting Darkshore... yeah sure, let’s ignore that and go all in on some Alliance elves for zombie dinosaurs. Tracks.

[Whitedragon]

Narative painted it as atrocity, not retribution.

Narrative also told us that the idea of Jaina drowning org was an atrocity not retribution.

[Gamespud]

To all the people trying to argue about how it's not "real" necromancy. 3 points..

1. It is still resurrecting a body with magic.. necromancy..

2. It's still called necromancy, just check the Shadowmoon orcs in Draenor who do the same shit and get called necromancers.

3. Who cares? Even if you want to get super technical about it that doesn't make a difference. "Oh I didn't REALLY raise your Grandpa from the dead, I just dug up his body, filled it full of metal rods, and paraded it around like a puppet, PERFECTLY NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR." Regardless of whether the souls are being messed with it's still defiling sacred grounds and remains.

OT: Ultimately the problem is just that for whatever reason Blizz hasn't gotten around to pushing the obvious and inevitable conflict between the Alliance and Void Elves as pretty much everyone should be extremely skeptical of them and worried about their methods but instead it's just pushed under the rug and will probably only be brought up 2-4 years from now when we get an expansion that focuses on the void and light again and void elves are pushed into the forefront.

[Varodoc]

To all the people trying to argue about how it's not "real" necromancy. 3 points..

1. It is still resurrecting a body with magic.. necromancy..

2. It's still called necromancy, just check the Shadowmoon orcs in Draenor who do the same shit and get called necromancers.

3. Who cares? Even if you want to get super technical about it that doesn't make a difference. "Oh I didn't REALLY raise your Grandpa from the dead, I just dug up his body, filled it full of metal rods, and paraded it around like a puppet, PERFECTLY NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR." Regardless of whether the souls are being messed with it's still defiling sacred grounds and remains.

OT: Ultimately the problem is just that for whatever reason Blizz hasn't gotten around to pushing the obvious and inevitable conflict between the Alliance and Void Elves as pretty much everyone should be extremely skeptical of them and worried about their methods but instead it's just pushed under the rug and will probably only be brought up 2-4 years from now when we get an expansion that focuses on the void and light again and void elves are pushed into the forefront.

So let me get this straight. We have one side that raises entire armies into undeath (as actual undead whose souls were reattached imperfectly to the body), brainwashes people, commits genocide, starts bloody world wars, but somehow the Void elves are evil for raising a bunch of dinosaurs? In a universe with the Horde? No.

And the Alliance clearly doesn't have a problem with Death knights, who do far worse things than the Void elves. The proof is that Thassarian the malevolent death knight was hand-picked by Varian himself to lead an army to Andorhal.

[Zyky]

We can get to them when the Horde is held responsible for multiple acts of genocide.

What? LOL. You realize part of war is attacking and killing people right? On that note there's been zero genocide.

[CalamityHeart]

1. It is still resurrecting a body with magic.. necromancy..

No, it's not. Unless you're going to call it "resurrection" when a mage enchants a broom or a book or a crystal ball to move on its own. That it's bones that are being enchanted and not another similarly mundane object doesn't really matter for this instance. There's a little bit more nuance to this than I think you're giving credit for.

2. It's still called necromancy, just check the Shadowmoon orcs in Draenor who do the same shit and get called necromancers.

That's likely because the Shadowmoon orcs deal directly with souls, as well as the void. It's not one or the other, they dabble in both. There's almost certainly some overlap between them. But the Shadowmoon orcs are most definitely and inarguably communing with/abusing souls. The ren'dorei are not messing with souls here. Only the bones.

3. Who cares? Even if you want to get super technical about it that doesn't make a difference. "Oh I didn't REALLY raise your Grandpa from the dead, I just dug up his body, filled it full of metal rods, and paraded it around like a puppet, PERFECTLY NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR." Regardless of whether the souls are being messed with it's still defiling sacred grounds and remains.

Playing puppetmaster with the bones of your enemies' dead animals for a few minutes is pretty intense, yes. Is that nearly the limit of actual depraved corruption and torture that void users can inflict on actual living things? I don't think so, no. And if "Those dinosaur bones are probably precious to the Zandalari (despite them being everywhere, seemingly neglected, out in the open plains, and uninterred in any sort of 'crypt where precious dinosaur bones go'), don't mess with them!" is really the line in the sand that Alliance leadership is willing to draw, then... what are we doing here, exactly? What's the correct, Alliance-appropriate way to murder trolls with families?

OT: Ultimately the problem is just that for whatever reason Blizz hasn't gotten around to pushing the obvious and inevitable conflict between the Alliance and Void Elves as pretty much everyone should be extremely skeptical of them and worried about their methods but instead it's just pushed under the rug and will probably only be brought up 2-4 years from now when we get an expansion that focuses on the void and light again and void elves are pushed into the forefront.

Mm. Yeah, I can definitely see that as something they could potentially do.

[Ielenia]

(disclaimer: please don't bring up Garrosh/Sylvanas or the Horde here; the topic is about Void Elves)

I'm a bit late to the party but why wasn't Umbric and his gang held accountable for raising up sacred Zandalari dinosaurs? I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action. And then there's Anduin who's pretty much "nooooo please don't do that or we won't be any better than the Horde noooo"

Surely there would have been at least one small group of salty Sunreavers who would have manipulated the Kirin Tor and the Argent Crusade to undermine the Void Elves' reputation?

From my understanding it wasn't actual necromancy, and more like animation, like a golem of sorts.

[Dazmalak]

Why anyone is trying to hold anyone accountable for anything in this game is beyond comprehension. It's a game and the rule of law and logic by and large doesn't apply. The in game universe is so meta that it can't and shouldn't be taken with an ounce of seriousness. Things happen for no other reason than a developer saying "it would be cool if..." and that's it. No more thought goes into it beyond that. That's the reason Blizzard trips over its own lore and there is no nuance to anything.

[Ielenia]

Narative painted it as atrocity, not retribution.

This is rather off-topic, but I just wanted to point out that both (atrocity and retribution) aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

[Stelio Kontos]

What? LOL. You realize part of war is attacking and killing people right? On that note there's been zero genocide.

Sorry, but you're factually wrong. I don't know if it's on purpose or you're just a low-information type.

What the Horde did at Teldrassil was genocide, it's even referred to as such in the novelization.

[Magical Mudcrab]

I remember Kel'thuzad being ousted in Dalaran for just one single damn rat; and considering that they're proactive against threats and would-be-threats, they would have investigated their undesirable action\

The Alliance did not expel Kel'thuzad, the Kirin Tor did, I believe he was even on their Council of Six. He was expelled because Antonidas and the other archmages were afraid Kel'thuzad's experiments would cause political issues with the Church of the Holy Light, not that they were particularly afraid of his experiments as they were rudimentary and not very impressive at that time. Nowadays, necromancy is not as frowned upon, with Death Knights being welcomed into the Alliance and Horde, with I'm assuming a begrudged tolerance by the Church of the Holy Light.

That being said, the Church of the Holy Light, in the last few years, has cranked out some incredibly high-ranking Twilights Hammer cultists. Due to this, I would think they would be under much more scrutiny nowadays and likely have significantly less political power.

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Sorry, but you're factually wrong. I don't know if it's on purpose or you're just a low-information type.

What the Horde did at Teldrassil was genocide, it's even referred to as such in the novelization.

Look, Stelio, it's not genocide. It's just the killings of a particular race en masse for the sole reason of the leader of the Horde hating them for what they are. It's typical fare, really.

[Zyky]

Sorry, but you're factually wrong. I don't know if it's on purpose or you're just a low-information type.

What the Horde did at Teldrassil was genocide, it's even referred to as such in the novelization.

Genocide: acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group

Sylvanas didn't care that they were Night Elves or that they worshiped Elune. She was answering crimes the Alliance put forth in attacking non-combatants in Silithus with SI: 7 and an unprovoked attack in Stormheim by Genn. By definition that is not "genocide".

[Ardenaso]

The entirety of the first and second wars, killing Cenarius, nuking Theramore, invading Gilneas, bombing Stonetalon mountains, blighting Southshore, zombifying Hillsbrad, sacking Astranaar, burning Telsrassil, deforesting Darkshore... yeah sure, let’s ignore that and go all in on some Alliance elves for zombie dinosaurs. Tracks.

we can talk about them in another thread, or in the 34432432432 Horde threads, or the other lore threads that eventually derailed into Sylvanas; this is about Void Elves

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The Alliance did not expel Kel'thuzad, the Kirin Tor did, I believe he was even on their Council of Six. He was expelled because Antonidas and the other archmages were afraid Kel'thuzad's experiments would cause political issues with the Church of the Holy Light, not that they were particularly afraid of his experiments as they were rudimentary and not very impressive at that time. Nowadays, necromancy is not as frowned upon, with Death Knights being welcomed into the Alliance and Horde, with I'm assuming a begrudged tolerance by the Church of the Holy Light.

That being said, the Church of the Holy Light, in the last few years, has cranked out some incredibly high-ranking Twilights Hammer cultists. Due to this, I would think they would be under much more scrutiny nowadays and likely have significantly less political power.

don't mind if I move the goalpost a bit but how about Void + necromancy? so far only the Alliance is cool with them and so I thought the others wouldnt

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Genocide: acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group

Sylvanas didn't care that they were Night Elves or that they worshiped Elune. She was answering crimes the Alliance put forth in attacking non-combatants in Silithus with SI: 7 and an unprovoked attack in Stormheim by Genn. By definition that is not "genocide".

Neither the goblins nor stormheim were the reason she burned the tree and as far as the canon goes it was a genocide, neither of these things are up for debate they are both canonized by the short story’s until changed by future lore.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Void elves are heretics and need to be purged. Get rid of a thorn in the blood elves back and help out the dignity and honour of the alliance.

[Swnem]

Well, it didn't look like necromancy to me. It was bones being controlled by the void.