Do people genuinely think the Horde is evil?

[adcesamo]

Well, well, well. Here we go. Now Horde is worse than Legion, am I right? Then goodbye Alli fanboys, that thread was not fun at all.

Goodbye horde fanboy, you made the thread fun and will be missed.

[Unholyground]

Every time this comes up I always think about this.

[Raisei]

He went rogue then came back and said he was sorry and started playing the adviser rolls Talanji had nothing to address as Zandalar really didn’t care what he did on his vacation and had no responsibility towards it.

And ya they shelter the horde but I’m talking about the pandaren opinion not the alliance.

But you say it yourself. He was just accepted back. And they did not care about the people he murdered, he even got a high level position again. That is spitting in the faces of the Pandaren, of the Horde (since their last Warchief was nearly killed by them) and the Alliance.
If they do not care about the damage their own people cause I wonder why in the world can the Alliance be blamed for arresting them? The Zandalari obviously had it coming.

[Gamingsince1981]

"Do people genuinely think the horde is evil?"

No, we all know they are , they have proven it time and time again. When was the last time something was called a horde and was a good thing ?

[Martymark]

In BFA Blizzard repeatedly said "The Horde is EVIL TRASH everyone should hate!...but the Horde players are cool and keep paying us $15 a month"

[qwerty123456]

So its ok to enjail someone just because some mad prophet talk about some shit with hostile amani and gurubashi? Even if they dont know that Talanji comes to Horde and not exploring, yes? Just took her to stokades, take her ship and then call zandalari hostility unprovoked, am i right?

Did the Zandalari and Alliance declare peace/a truce after they attacked the Horde and Alliance? No. And Talanji was with the very guy who had the Zandalari attacking everyone. Just because it took the Alliance a couple years to retaliate doesn't mean it wasn't unprovoked.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But you say it yourself. He was just accepted back. And they did not care about the people he murdered, he even got a high level position again. That is spitting in the faces of the Pandaren, of the Horde (since their last Warchief was nearly killed by them) and the Alliance.
If they do not care about the damage their own people cause I wonder why in the world can the Alliance be blamed for arresting them? The Zandalari obviously had it coming.

The pandaren are all about forgiveness and giving people another chance so they wouldn't care and the zandalari owe nothing to the horde or alliance before Zul die's so they have no reason to do any thing to appease them or even care if they got upset about Zul which they never do.

[Mehrunes]

It's not the fault of the Alliance that Sylvanas left you in the dark about her true goals (enslaving a Titan Watcher) here though.

And what on earth does that have to do with @MikeBogina's point? Oh, that's right, absolutely nothing.

And considering that the Pandaren are just as much members of the Horde as they are of the Alliance you could call it quite the dick move to ally with these guys after Zul allied with the Mogu who have been enslaving and murdering Pandaren for centuries and used them to attack the Shado-Pan, a neutral group.

Something tells me that Vol'jin would not have made that call, probably because he was actually INSIDE the Shado-Pan monastery during this attack.

The Huojin and Tushui have nothing to do with the mainland Pandaren and were as alien to Pandaria as the rest of the Horde and the Alliance. That's kinda what the scene Ji in Siege of Orgrimmar was driving home.

True, true the poor innocent Sylvanas and the poor innocent Horde. You might have forgotten, but Sylvanas and no one else is responsible for the hatred of Genn towards her. But sure, let's just forget that she murdered his people with a plague against her Warchiefs orders and murdered his son. Something she has never had to answer for in any shape or form. Genn is truely a rotten individual for blaming her for that!

This totally deflect from the fact that he attacked the Warchief of the Horde, against the orders of his High King no less, during an ongoing apocalypse. Except for the part where it doesn't. But hey, maybe the next time you'll manage to get an actual save.

Considering Sylvanas did NOTHING against the Legion after the Broken Shore and instead went out on her own quest for immortality... how exactly did that prevent her from supporting her own faction? Was she busy sulking or too afraid she might die to prevent the annihilation of "her" people?

Except for sending an entire fleet after the Aegis. Not to mention the fact that just because a character is not in the spotlight does not mean they enter some kind of stasis. Even Baine praised Sylvanas' leadership in the war against the Legion once it was over.

Yet this is what the Horde has done several times over and then they make sad faces, blame their respective Warchief and demand to be forgiven. After the crimes Sylvanas has commited in her undead existence, she does not get to play the victim card. "Oh dear me, I was just trying to steal the power of a Titan Watcher and this beast Genn Greymane attacked me!! Whatever have I done to him!?"

Genn still knew squat about that.

Right, so much for sensible conversation I guess. Not gonna bother with the rest then. If you honestly blame Genn for the genocide that happened at Teldrassil then you obviously crafted an elaborate headcanon and there is no way for facts to pierce that. Probably next you will tell us that the Draenei are responsible for their own genocide too.

Except @MikeBogina blamed him for war in general. And it's almost as if the factions began fighting each other already in Legion.

You find out about in Azshara where a ship of the Banshee sunk. Which is chronologically set before the attack on Stormheim. But you can bet that the Horde folks will now deny that.

There is nothing indicating that "Azshara" happens before Stormheim in lore. Blizzard scrapped the zone order for Legion and at no point have they stated that storywise the zone order remained as it was. Because for being informed about Sylvanas' plans due to the "earlier" events of "Azshara" Genn somehow didn't remember that. Instead he spent the entirety of Stormheim saying that he knows nothing about her plans. He only learned that it has something to do with the Val'kyr in Skold-Ashil, the last subzone of Stormheim that's related to the Genn vs Sylvanas storyline. Which you'd know if you didn't have to ignore even the Alliance quests to weave your shoddy fanfiction together.

On top of that there's nothing indicating the Alliance version of the "Azshara" quest is the canon one rather than the Horde one. And they are kinda mutually exclusive.

Tagging @Ardenaso so that they don't fall for your BS.

That's why she was jailed and not executed on the spot. You do that when you think someone might be a danger to your people, ya know?

Why are you talking about Talanji in response to the part of @Dancaris' post that was about Sylvanas?

Thanks for proving my point.

You have no point. You made a claim that Stormheim happens after "Azshara" chronologically and supported it with jack shit. Which isn't the way it's supposed to work in general, let alone when the actual questline of Stormheim disproves the notion that Genn got the "Azshara" intel before that zone. You trying to bend over backwards and pretend it's Horde posters that are in the wrong for not entertaining your fanfiction is just sad. But that sadness does not magically vindicate your position.

Logic and common sense. You bring the information to Greymane, who does not make any alusions that he had already attacked the Banshee or that he knows what she was up to, which he should if this was after Stormheim oh and he should probably have some problem with that arrow in his chest. But don't worry, I don't expect you to accept this. I know accepting that would throw quite the wrench into this whole "Genn started the war" story the Horde has been using to defend Sylvanas.

Common sense is appeal from incredulity logical fallacy, so here goes both your logic and your common sense. And there's nothing to throw any wrenches into here. Genn repeatedly talks about not knowing anything about Sylvanas' plans in Stormheim even after he attacked her at the start of the zone.

Out of interest, what is your source for this NOT being the chronological order of events?

That's not how burden of proof works.

But don't worry, I don't expect you to accept this.

[Feanoro]

Well, well, well. Here we go. Now Horde is worse than Legion, am I right? Then goodbye Alli fanboys, that thread was not fun at all.

If that's how you choose to interpret what I wrote, knock yourself out.

Horde actions are ludicrously out of scale to those they claim provoked them. Horde players cheered Teldrassil and yet still want to be called good guys.

[Raisei]

The pandaren are all about forgiveness and giving people another chance

Mhm... they basically exterminated the Mogu when they broke free of slavery, only a few survive now. And Taran Zhu is a good example for a Panda that takes no shit from anyone. But yes, those are not the domesticated Pandas that joined the Horde and Alliance. Still, there should be some resentment.
The problem of course is that the Pandas have basically been phased out of the story after Pandaria, most obvious when they actually forgot to invite Ji to the celebration feast after Legion. Bliizard seems to want to ignore their existance as much as possible.

so they wouldn't care and the zandalari owe nothing to the horde or alliance before Zul die's so they have no reason to do any thing to appease them or even care if they got upset about Zul which they never do.

Well, one could say they owe a shitton for their many unprovoked attacks. Them not acknowledging and not caring about that does not actually make it go away, so again, how is the Alliance not justified to take them into custody? They are an evil Empire that wants to conquer the world one of their top-ranking officials has released not one but two world-ending threats by now. They are not innocent.

[The Butt Witch]

Mhm... they basically exterminated the Mogu when they broke free of slavery, only a few survive now. And Taran Zhu is a good example for a Panda that takes no shit from anyone. But yes, those are not the domesticated Pandas that joined the Horde and Alliance. Still, there should be some resentment.
The problem of course is that the Pandas have basically been phased out of the story after Pandaria, most obvious when they actually forgot to invite Ji to the celebration feast after Legion. Bliizard seems to want to ignore their existance as much as possible.



Well, one could say they owe a shitton for their many unprovoked attacks. Them not acknowledging and not caring about that does not actually make it go away, so again, how is the Alliance not justified to take them into custody? They are an evil Empire that wants to conquer the world one of their top-ranking officials has released not one but two world-ending threats by now. They are not innocent.

The Mogu aren't exactly reasonable people. They are insanely arrogant and deluded. Odds are that even defeated and broken, the Mogu still tried to restore their empire and mindlessly threw themselves in battle against the Pandaren because they just couldn't accept that they were defeated by the "lesser".

[LemonDemonGirl]

Well, one could say they owe a shitton for their many unprovoked attacks. Them not acknowledging and not caring about that does not actually make it go away, so again, how is the Alliance not justified to take them into custody? They are an evil Empire that wants to conquer the world one of their top-ranking officials has released not one but two world-ending threats by now. They are not innocent.

I though it was Zul's fault for all the attacks in Pandaria? I don't think Rastakhan had anything to do with it either, he just sent Zul away so he'd shut up about his 'visions'

[Aphrel]

Theyve been on a genocide spree twice now in only a few years.

And while the mop storyline showed the discord between races within the horde quite well, (althou even here the entire orc race is protrayed as being completly ok with throwing down with an old god so they are definetly comparably as evil as the twilight Hammer faction already here).

The bfa storyline quite clearly showed that slyvanas had overwhelming support. Even with saurfang and his followers anduin says that they don't have enough troops to stop sylvanas. So that mathematical equation points to saurfangs followers being a very small minorty, while the overwhelming majority was completly fine with invading a forgein land and comitting genocide and literally burning an enitre zone to the ground.

Are the horde evil? Well, the certantly are comparable to the burning legion in their methods at least.

[Raisei]

And what on earth does that have to do with @MikeBogina's point? Oh, that's right, absolutely nothing.

Genn learns of Silvanas games in Stormheim > Genn attacks Silvanas in Stormheim to prevent her getting whatever power it was that she wanted to steal > The fleet is in the way or you could say she used the fleet as a distraction, making the poor Hordies believe she cares one bit about the Aegis or the war with the Legion when she found a way to become immortal.

But I know, it is so much easier to dismiss things then actually thinking about them.

This totally deflect from the fact that he attacked the Warchief of the Horde, against the orders of his High King no less, during an ongoing apocalypse. Except for the part where it doesn't. But hey, maybe the next time you'll manage to get an actual save.

A funny point considering that that is exactly what Sylvanas did when she started this feud with Genn in the first place. They called it Catalysm, not Apocalypse and it was one King, not the High King, but that is semantics.
It is so cute how people like you keep trying to blame victims and deflect blame from the undead mass murderer again and again. I will say it once more, though with little hope that this time it gets through your wall of bias: When you have done what Sylvanas has done in her unlife then there is no such thing as an "unprovoked attack" anymore, her existence and membership in the Horde is a provocation to the Alliance by itself, making her Warchief was as good as declaring war.

She had a chance of changing this situation or at least trying to at the Broken Shore and no, I don't mean the Horde should have died there. But what was the problem of sending a Val'kyr down to grab Varian out of there or at the very least give a short message: "We are being overrun, can't hold position, retreat!"
Yet she did nothing and allowed Varian to die, making it very much look like the Horde had left the Alliance to die, which Genn of course is all too ready to believe, why would he think otherwise?
Later we find out that it was all a set-up, but by that time the damage was already done.

Except for sending an entire fleet after the Aegis. Not to mention the fact that just because a character is not in the spotlight does not mean they enter some kind of stasis. Even Baine praised Sylvanas' leadership in the war against the Legion once it was over.

So she send a few ships after one of the pillars, then pissed off and literally left you in Helheim with no guarantee that you would escape, because she had what she wanted. That is some class A leadership. Even Anduin did more for his troops by saving some souls and wounded on the Broken Shore and leaving the rest of the war effort to people with experience.

Genn still knew squat about that.

Yes, yes. Its so much more convenient to believe that we just blindly stumbled upon the Horde fleet then actually accepting that the message was found before and the Alliance was actually looking to find out and prevent her from her goals.

Tagging @Ardenaso so that they don't fall for your BS.

Oh shall I tag random Alliance posters too, warning them about your tendency to nitpick lore until it agrees with your biased headcanon? Nah, I would feel petty. But don't let that stop you.

Why are you talking about Talanji in response to the part of @Dancaris' post that was about Sylvanas

Honest mistake, sometimes it is difficult to keep all the Horde warmongers seperate.

You have no point. You made a claim that Stormheim happens after "Azshara" chronologically and supported it with jack shit. Which isn't the way it's supposed to work in general, let alone when the actual questline of Stormheim disproves the notion that Genn got the "Azshara" intel before that zone. You trying to bend over backwards and pretend it's Horde posters that are in the wrong for not entertaining your fanfiction is just sad. But that sadness does not magically vindicate your position.

Classical. You say the questline disproves it, which it does not. The information from Azshara was very little, it did not mention Val'kyr fully, just that Sylvie was going to steal power from someone, of course Genn can from that not immediatedly construct Sylvanas full evil plan. So it makes sense that he says he doesn't know what is going on. He just knew she was doing something and knowing Sylvanas it wouldn't be good for anyone but herself, which in retrospective is proven absolutely true and shows that Genn's distrust of the Banshee was completely justified.
It's a perfect example of you taking a tiny piece of the story, ignoring the circumstance and just taking it as proof of your entire fanfiction in which no Alliance character has ever done anything right, smart or good. Ever.

That's not how burden of proof works.

And we are not in court. I postulated a theory with the little evidence that exists, using logic to make it stick. Obviously I cannot prove it, but neither can any of you prove that it is wrong. The difference is, my theory makes sense, yours is just convenient to pin the entire war on Genn and remove blame from the mass murdering Banshee.

- - - Updated - - -

The Mogu aren't exactly reasonable people. They are insanely arrogant and deluded. Odds are that even defeated and broken, the Mogu still tried to restore their empire and mindlessly threw themselves in battle against the Pandaren because they just couldn't accept that they were defeated by the "lesser".

*desperately fighting the urge to bring up real world politics*

Aye could be. The details of the end of the revolution are hazy, so we don't know the full story, but there are definately much fewer Mogu now then at that time. We also know they weren't put in internment camps, otherwise the Mogu fans would not stop bringing that fact up.

[MCMLXXXII]

Azsuna not Azshara. Get your headcanon facts straight.

[erifwodahs]

No, Horde is not evil nor it's good. It depends on the side you are looking from. People claiming that we are bloodthirsty evil demons are fanatic and it's as good as Scarlet Crusade

[Mehrunes]

Genn learns of Silvanas games in Stormheim > Genn attacks Silvanas in Stormheim to prevent her getting whatever power it was that she wanted to steal > The fleet is in the way or you could say she used the fleet as a distraction, making the poor Hordies believe she cares one bit about the Aegis or the war with the Legion when she found a way to become immortal.

But I know, it is so much easier to dismiss things then actually thinking about them.

Your fanfiction is not dismissed because it's "much easier", but because the place of any fanfiction is in the garbage. Genn says nothing about having such intel. Instead he spends almost the entirety of Stormheim Alliance questline (meaning that once again you have to ignore even Alliance questline to weave your nonsense together) talking about knowing nothing about Sylvanas' plans. He only manages to scrap together that it has something to do with the Val'kyr in Skold-Ashil, moments before their final confrontation.

Even though the journal from "Azshara" talks about Sylvanas being after the "power of v", which would have made it rather easy to piece together for him. Yet he did not. Because he quite clearly didn't have that intel at the time. Do you know what the journal does not mention, on the other hand? Sylvanas wanting to enslave anyone, let alone a Titan Watcher. So even if you were right about Genn getting the "Azshara" intel before Stormheim, which you blatantly are not, your claim that Genn attacked Sylvanas because of muh Eyir would still be fanfiction. This is how deep your fanfiction peddling goes.

A funny point considering that that is exactly what Sylvanas did when she started this feud with Genn in the first place. They called it Catalysm, not Apocalypse and it was one King, not the High King, but that is semantics.

Sylvanas wasn't even on the continent when the war with Gilneas began, but don't let that stop your fantasies.

It is so cute how people like you keep trying to blame victims and deflect blame from the undead mass murderer again and again. I will say it once more, though with little hope that this time it gets through your wall of bias: When you have done what Sylvanas has done in her unlife then there is no such thing as an "unprovoked attack" anymore, her existence and membership in the Horde is a provocation to the Alliance by itself, making her Warchief was as good as declaring war.

That's not how international relations work. Then again your spiel about state neutrality already showed beyond the shadow of the doubt that you don't understand this topic one iota, so this is par for the course. The war that the Gilneas conflict was a part of ended and the factions made their peace. Genn had fuck all of a casus belli to attack Sylvanas. Which is why, you know, even Anduin condemned that attack.

She had a chance of changing this situation or at least trying to at the Broken Shore and no, I don't mean the Horde should have died there. But what was the problem of sending a Val'kyr down to grab Varian out of there or at the very least give a short message: "We are being overrun, can't hold position, retreat!"
Yet she did nothing and allowed Varian to die, making it very much look like the Horde had left the Alliance to die, which Genn of course is all too ready to believe, why would he think otherwise? Later we find out that it was all a set-up, but by that time the damage was already done.

Because the Val'kyr were busy saving the Horde and the Alliance had a goddamn gunship on its way. The Alliance was informed of Horde's withdrawal via the horn signal. A signal that Varian understood, even if he didn't get the picture as to why the Horde had to retreat. That you think a hectic battlefield, especially when you're forced to retreat, is a place to send such detailed reports when a horn signal would (and did) suffice is hilarious though. In the completely not unexpected manner.

And the Legion spaceships that forced the Horde to retreat were visible from the Alliance position. Not to mention the army of demons that paraded on the cliff immediately after the Horde escaped (and would have been visible in all its glory from the air once Alliance got onto the gunship). So the only reason the damage was already done is because of willful ignorance from the likes of Genn.

Also, Varian was killed by a Fel Reaver that wasn't even on Azeroth when the Horde retreated. So the logical link between Varian dying and the Horde retreating (and "allowing" Varian to die in the process) is non-existent. Then again your argument as a whole is essentially non-existent, so at least there's some consistency here for once.

So she send a few ships after one of the pillars, then pissed off and literally left you in Helheim with no guarantee that you would escape, because she had what she wanted. That is some class A leadership. Even Anduin did more for his troops by saving some souls and wounded on the Broken Shore and leaving the rest of the war effort to people with experience.

Sending an entire fleet after one of the five artifacts we needed to stop the Legion is indeed completely dwarfed by saving some souls

Yes, yes. Its so much more convenient to believe that we just blindly stumbled upon the Horde fleet then actually accepting that the message was found before and the Alliance was actually looking to find out and prevent her from her goals.

What I'd say is more convenient here is trying to force the idea that Genn had this specific intel even though he repeatedly stated after the attack that he knows nothing about what Sylvanas is up to. And the reason why it's convenient is because it's fanfiction. So is the idea that the Alliance just blindly stumbled upon the Horde fleet which is a straw-man you pulled out of the nether because you had nothing else to deflect from the above with. The Alliance knew the Horde is mounting an expedition to Stormheim. That's all. They knew nothing of the specifics they would have learned about from the book in question. It's almost as if it was possible for the Alliance to learn about things in different ways. Before the Storm made it rather obvious how easy it is for the Alliance to get spies into Orgrimmar and with Genn pushing his idea of grand Horde betrayal at the time it'd be illogical for them not to do so at the time. Not to mention the human lurking around during Vol'jin's BBQ.

Oh shall I tag random Alliance posters too, warning them about your tendency to nitpick lore until it agrees with your biased headcanon? Nah, I would feel petty. But don't let that stop you.

Once you can actually point out that supposed "nitpicking" of mine and support it with actual canon sources rather than your army of salty straw-men, wishful thinking and, as you decided to make clear in recent times for some reason, complete misunderstanding of basic political concepts pertaining to the topics you're trying to discuss? Sure, knock yourself out. Hell will freeze over before that happens, but don't let that stop you from dreaming.

Honest mistake, sometimes it is difficult to keep all the Horde warmongers seperate.

Talanji wasn't even Horde at the time. Nor was she a warmonger.

Classical. You say the questline disproves it, which it does not. The information from Azshara was very little, it did not mention Val'kyr fully, just that Sylvie was going to steal power from someone, of course Genn can from that not immediatedly construct Sylvanas full evil plan. So it makes sense that he says he doesn't know what is going on. He just knew she was doing something and knowing Sylvanas it wouldn't be good for anyone but herself, which in retrospective is proven absolutely true and shows that Genn's distrust of the Banshee was completely justified.

How about you stop trying to distort the truth at every step of the way because it does not kow tow to your fanfiction? It's not about Genn not being immediately construct Sylvanas' plan in full. Genn, by his own repeated admission throughout Stormheim, had NO GODDAMN IDEA about what she was up to. The "Azshara" journal, while damaged, would have provided him with SOME IDEA. Can you spot the difference between "no" and "some"? And how they are mutually exclusive? Or are you this far gone in your quest to peddle abject fanfiction that the meanings of words stopped mattering to you?

Especially since the journal still talked about Sylvanas being after the "power of v". Given Sylvanas' pact with the Val'kyr that was known to the Alliance since Cataclysm and the Val'kyr flying around the zone, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out that this means Sylvanas is likely out to get more Val'kyr. Yet Genn pieced that together only in Skold-Ashil, right at the very end of the questline. And he got that only from the information he gathered at Skold-Ashil itself, not from pondering on the book from "Azshara" that he totally got.

It's a perfect example of you taking a tiny piece of the story, ignoring the circumstance and just taking it as proof of your entire fanfiction in which no Alliance character has ever done anything right, smart or good. Ever.

Yeah, me taking into consideration that Genn repeatedly claimed he knew fuck all about Sylvanas' plans, which directly contradicts he got some intel about her plans from "Azshara" is totes legit me ignoring the circumstances

Meanwhile in the real world where words actually mean things, the one harping on a tiny piece of the story, i.e. the book of "Azshara" (where it isn't even confirmed that it's the Alliance version of the quest that's canon) while deliberately ignoring the much larger Alliance questline of Stormheim that contradicts this notion is you. You're desperately trying to claim that black is white here. Which is why you had to resort to yet another of salty straw-man at the end of this paragraph.

And we are not in court. I postulated a theory with the little evidence that exists, using logic to make it stick. Obviously I cannot prove it, but neither can any of you prove that it is wrong. The difference is, my theory makes sense, yours is just convenient to pin the entire war on Genn and remove blame from the mass murdering Banshee.

Since when is burden of proof exclusive to courts And you postulated fanfiction that is contradicted by the claims from the very Alliance character that this fanfiction of yours is about. The "logic" used here by your own earlier admission relies on the logical fallacy of common sense. Which means you not only cannot prove it, but that the it here is a pile of unsubstantiated nonsense.

And because the burden of proof is actually not exclusive to courts, it's not on other people to prove your fanfiction wrong. Meanwhile in the real world the theory that takes into consideration that Genn himself admitted he knew nothing about Sylvanas' plans, which directly disproves the idea he got some clue from "Azshara" is the one that makes sense, because words mean things. No matter how much harder it makes peddling fanfiction for you.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Mhm... they basically exterminated the Mogu when they broke free of slavery, only a few survive now. And Taran Zhu is a good example for a Panda that takes no shit from anyone. But yes, those are not the domesticated Pandas that joined the Horde and Alliance. Still, there should be some resentment.
The problem of course is that the Pandas have basically been phased out of the story after Pandaria, most obvious when they actually forgot to invite Ji to the celebration feast after Legion. Bliizard seems to want to ignore their existance as much as possible.



Well, one could say they owe a shitton for their many unprovoked attacks. Them not acknowledging and not caring about that does not actually make it go away, so again, how is the Alliance not justified to take them into custody? They are an evil Empire that wants to conquer the world one of their top-ranking officials has released not one but two world-ending threats by now. They are not innocent.

The mogu aren’t quite the same as they have been actively trying to rebuild there empire while the zandalari just wanted to sit on there island for the longest time.

The zandalari as a kingdom has also never attacked the alliance/horde unprovoked the only interactions they had pre bfa was helping the alliance/horde deal with ZG in classic and ZD in wrath. Zul and his followers attacked the alliance/horde but with no support from the main empire they were literally told to leave because they wouldn’t stop bitching and then went rouge all on there own much like benedictus did in cata.

Capturing zul is of course fair game but there’s no reason to act like the zandalari was an evil world conquering empire unless the alliance is just being racist and think all trolls are the same just because there trolls.

[Celebronde]

Only Sylvanas

[rowaasr13]

Pff? Sylvanas bootlickers are still at it even at start of SL? What a surprise. Your old bro Danuser would be so proud. Does she have some pheromones on those boots or something?

There's a solution to your "but he attacked muh warchief" problem: stop electing evilshit massmurderers - they tend to attract attacks from forces of good for some mysterious reason. Problem solved.