[Spoilers] Shadowlands Launch Cinematic: "Beyond the Veil"

[Varodoc]

I read an interesting conspiracy-type theory yesterday that, while I don't think will prove to the case, was interesting enough to share. Some people are theorizing that the Jailer we've seen so far isn't the Zovaal who was originally part of the Eternal Ones pantheon alongside the Arbiter, the Primus, and the others. Rather, that Zovaal is actually the Runecarver and the entity we know of as the Jailer is someone entirely else, a dangerous being that's somehow found its way into the Maw and taken on the appearance and role of the Jailer for its own purposes. This is why the Runecarver is both masked and has had his memories taken.

All I know is that I wish the Jailer still looked like this:



Now this is what I envision a real lord of Death to look like. Ancient, because Death is timeless, but also elegant, regal, because he is a God. It would make the Titan parallels even more obvious, as he looks like an evil Aman'thul.

Unless they recycle this old design for the Jailer's final form, or this "real" Jailer you're talking about.

[Minikin]

Not much to discuss save that as @Jastall said, Denathrius so far has a lot more going for him than his boss. At the same time, while his voice is generic, the Jailor as this withered Nosferatu looking guy is a lot more compelling visually than the strange body-builder handsome Squidward combination they have in-game.

In the Revendreth campaign denathrius does mention how his "brother" was unjustly treated.

Now I don't know if brother here means like actual sibling, OR like a "brother in arms" or "comrade" kind of thing.

However it is clear though that denathrius out of all the others is the most leaning towards the maw, either due to proximity or just their general relation regarding penance and oblivion.

- - - Updated - - -

Im guessing this cinematic occurs before Slyvannas went to ICC? Since they depicting the Jailer with chains here.

The initial voice over is the Archon according the CC.

Some people were expecting a cinematic based on the artwork shown in pc gamer magazine. Honestly i was surprised, didn't think we would get another trailer till after launch.

Lastly i think he's chained up in the same location that Runecarver is currently located. Could be wrong?

I don't think he's in the runecarvers oubillete. The dias there is singular and goes the other way. Like it's not raised but instead pushed down.

The area surrounding also looks a little different.

Could be that in game looks different to a cinematic, but I dunno.

[Soon-TM]

I want those vampire ladies so badly, PlAYaBlE ALLieD RaCE WHEN!!! But for real they look awesome, I got nostalgia of what Blood Elves could have been back on BC

Revendreth as a whole has a heavy OG blood elf vibe. There's no way that my pally isn't going Venthyr

[Aucald]

It's an interesting theory but the main villain is the jailer. And we are show how he looks like. There's literally no way this can be true. Now that the runecarver may prove to be untrustworthy is a possibility. Since i find it silly that hes allowed to make artifacts for the "maw walker" under the Jailer's nose...

The full theory, if I recall, was that in eons past when the metacosm was young an insanely powerful Nathrezim (perhaps the first of his kind) decided to spread disorder into the other realms, starting with the ordered realm of Death. To this end he stole into the Shadowlands and somehow imprisoned Zovaal, the Eternal One set over souls who were thoroughly damned. Unable to kill the Eternal One himself, he instead stole his memories and his likeness, and then proceeded to sow discord among the Eternal Ones by enacting the events that in the end led to his own imprisonment in Torghast (formerly Zovaal's own realm). This theory both connects to the Dreadlord missive found in Revendreth (which connects the Nathrezim to the Shadowlands) as well as why and how the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne ended up in Dreadlord hands to be given to the Legion.

[username993720]

All I know is that I wish the Jailer still looked like this:



Now this is what I envision a real lord of Death to look like. Ancient, because Death is timeless, but also elegant, regal, because he is a God. It would make the Titan parallels even more obvious, as he looks like an evil Aman'thul.

Unless they recycle this old design for the Jailer's final form, or this "real" Jailer you're talking about.

Apparently, it was already given to the Maw Necromancers:


secondly, he looks a bit like Triton. I don't know... i expected the god of death to look, well... like an undead. not like a bodybuilder or a skinny santa. and i know Maldraxxus already has that theme, but still...

Now, i would like to point out an interesting detail in the cinematic:

There are glowing runes on the ground around him, as well as on his body (we've seen it only on his body, up until now; and on the ground around the runecarver - although, he seems to be using the runes when crafting a legendary). do you, guys, think it is meant to magically restrain him, while the shackles are meant to physically restrain him? food for thought...

[Varodoc]

Apparently, it was already given to the Maw Necromancers:

secondly, he looks a bit like Triton. I don't know... i expected the god of death to look, well... like an undead. not like a bodybuilder or a skinny santa. and i know Maldraxxus already has that theme, but still...

Now, i would like to point out an interesting detail in the cinematic:

There are glowing runes on the ground around him, as well as on his body (we've seen it only on his body, up until now; and on the ground around the runecarver - although, he seems to be using the runes when crafting a legendary). do you, guys, think it is meant to magically restrain him, while the shackles are meant to physically restrain him? food for thought...

They look so scuffed and mundane compared to the concept art, but I can see some elements of resemblance. It's a shame that Blizzard completely redesigned Zovaal, because personally the old design looks way more unique and ominous.

I think the Jailer would stand out more as a villain if he looked like a decrepit old entity, instead of Bald Sargeras. As well, him being similar to an "old man" would convey the idea that Death is truly timeless. But oh well.

As for those runes, Yes, they are meant to physically restrain him. Normally he would have no way to spread his magic and corruption beyond the Maw, that's why he came up with the idea of giving artifacts of the Maw to the Legion and have them inadvertently spread his corruption to the material world.

[tommyhil622]

They look so scuffed and mundane compared to the concept art, but I can see some elements of resemblance. It's a shame that Blizzard completely redesigned Zovaal, because personally the old design looks way more unique and ominous.

I think the Jailer would stand out more as a villain if he looked like a decrepit old entity, instead of Bald Sargeras. As well, him being similar to an "old man" would convey the idea that Death is truly timeless. But oh well.

As for those runes, Yes, they are meant to physically restrain him. Normally he would have no way to spread his magic and corruption beyond the Maw, that's why he came up with the idea of giving artifacts of the Maw to the Legion and have them inadvertently spread his corruption to the material world.

IDK, him looking like an evil version of Amanthul doesn't sit well with me either. I dislike both versions.

[Super Dickmann]

In the Revendreth campaign denathrius does mention how his "brother" was unjustly treated.

Now I don't know if brother here means like actual sibling, OR like a "brother in arms" or "comrade" kind of thing.

However it is clear though that denathrius out of all the others is the most leaning towards the maw, either due to proximity or just their general relation regarding penance and oblivion.

To put my tinfoil hat on, I figure that the Maw wasn't actually meant to exist as it does now. It's redundant in the functioning of the Shadowlands. Revendreth already handles torture and change through it and with the chain motif is the closest to it, but it also borrows from the rest. Bastion is all about depersonalization for duty, with the Maw keeping depersonalization but using it to turn you into a weapon. Maldraxxus is the army of the Shadowlands, but the Maw has its own army with none of the factional problems and stronger than that. Even Ardenweald is some kind of recycling station and we know that the Maw is associated with the destruction of souls to give energy. In how it works, it feeds into the theory that the Jailor was originally the king there and these functions were him getting into the turf of the other leaders, ditto his goals (mentioned in the Dreadlord book) of expanding the influence of Death, where all others are fine with mostly keeping things as they are and continuing the cycle. Hell, the Arbiter as a counter-point to the Jailor is that cycle given a minimal level of mind and her mouthpiece, the Archon and the Jailor's own comments are mirrored in this trailer.

Re: the other tinfoil theory @Aucald brought up. I like it, but I still figure it's likelier the Runesmith is the Primus and him wearing the Man in the Iron Mask style mask is a form of humiliation, since other NPCs mention that the Jailor thinks he was screwed over in some way and would like to pay his 'siblings' back.

[8bithamster]

Have your minions do it for you? Like, I'm sure these ancient beings can use some creativity.

Such an unkempt villain, he couldn't even remove his handcuffs after he broke free. What a vagabond. He doesn't even wear any kind of shoe. Literally a beggar lol.

aah yes, he's imprisoned obviously.. ofcourse he has minions there. /s

[tommyhil622]

The full theory, if I recall, was that in eons past when the metacosm was young an insanely powerful Nathrezim (perhaps the first of his kind) decided to spread disorder into the other realms, starting with the ordered realm of Death. To this end he stole into the Shadowlands and somehow imprisoned Zovaal, the Eternal One set over souls who were thoroughly damned. Unable to kill the Eternal One himself, he instead stole his memories and his likeness, and then proceeded to sow discord among the Eternal Ones by enacting the events that in the end led to his own imprisonment in Torghast (formerly Zovaal's own realm). This theory both connects to the Dreadlord missive found in Revendreth (which connects the Nathrezim to the Shadowlands) as well as why and how the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne ended up in Dreadlord hands to be given to the Legion.

Yea all of that would make sense if not for Primus's words that predicted Zovaal's betrayal. It's clear that Zovaal is the jailer. Like earlier on in the alpha where there wasn't much lore it was easier to believe that but now imo we have a pretty fixed picture of who the jailer is. Who Primus was. Runecarver is a mystery still but more threads lead to him being Primus himself. The whole Nathrezim connection can easily be explained by them serving the Jailer all along and when the opportunity of Ner'zhul presented itself, they went and got the items from the Jailer/maw etc to open the way for the jailer to escape etc. The theories are interesting though and would have been cool if true. But the further along we get in the quest line, the more unlikely it has become to the point of it being pretty impossible to be true via this whole 4D chess game. X is Y, Y is X, X is really Z who was helping A and B. Now i still think Runecarver can be a wild card but personally i still think he's Primus who's mind was stripped away so he cant' work against the Jailer nor divulge his involvement in the creation of Frostmourne and the helm. Ultimately he probably knows the means of weakening the Jailer (in order to defeat him).

[Aucald]

Yea all of that would make sense if not for Primus's words that predicted Zovaal's betrayal. It's clear that Zovaal is the jailer. Like earlier on in the alpha where there wasn't much lore it was easier to believe that but now imo we have a pretty fixed picture of who the jailer is. Who Primus was. Runecarver is a mystery still but more threads lead to him being Primus himself. The whole Nathrezim connection can easily be explained by them serving the Jailer all along and when the opportunity of Ner'zhul presented itself, they went and got the items from the Jailer/maw etc to open the way for the jailer to escape etc. The theories are interesting though and would have been cool if true. But the further along we get in the quest line, the more unlikely it has become to the point of it being pretty impossible to be true via this whole 4D chess game. X is Y, Y is X, X is really Z who was helping A and B. Now i still think Runecarver can be a wild card but personally i still think he's Primus who's mind was stripped away so he cant' work against the Jailer nor divulge his involvement in the creation of Frostmourne and the helm. Ultimately he probably knows the means of weakening the Jailer (in order to defeat him).

Kind of depends on who and what the Primus was predicting, though; Zovaal himself or the being masquerading as Zovaal. Though I think the truth of it is ultimately more direct with Zovaal being the Jailer directly, and there not being any kind of conspiracy and/or Nathrezim imposter(s).

[Varodoc]

aah yes, he's imprisoned obviously.. ofcourse he has minions there. /s

The Maw is literally overflwoing with his minions. The chains confine his presence to the Maw, but in it his presence is absolute.

Regardless it is fine if he neglects his personal hygiene, I guess that is one thing he has in common with Sylvanas.

[Raisei]

All I know is that I wish the Jailer still looked like this:

Now this is what I envision a real lord of Death to look like. Ancient, because Death is timeless, but also elegant, regal, because he is a God. It would make the Titan parallels even more obvious, as he looks like an evil Aman'thul.

Unless they recycle this old design for the Jailer's final form, or this "real" Jailer you're talking about.

I mean, if you shave the hair and beard, change the armor a bit... This could still be him, just before he did whatever it was that got him banished to the Maw, wouldn't be surprised to see this used somehow

[Houle]

IDK, him looking like an evil version of Amanthul doesn't sit well with me either. I dislike both versions.

this. both designs suck for a very simple reason: he basically just looks like a big grey "human" in both versions, which makes him boring and too similar to the titans
they shouldve made him more alien and unnatural. something you wouldn expect to see in the real universe, distinguishable from every other race or person weve seen so far

his current design (+lore) just looks and feels like someone thought "what if sargeras was an evil death magic guy instead of an evil fel magic guy"

The full theory, if I recall, was that in eons past when the metacosm was young an insanely powerful Nathrezim (perhaps the first of his kind) decided to spread disorder into the other realms, starting with the ordered realm of Death. To this end he stole into the Shadowlands and somehow imprisoned Zovaal, the Eternal One set over souls who were thoroughly damned. Unable to kill the Eternal One himself, he instead stole his memories and his likeness, and then proceeded to sow discord among the Eternal Ones by enacting the events that in the end led to his own imprisonment in Torghast (formerly Zovaal's own realm). This theory both connects to the Dreadlord missive found in Revendreth (which connects the Nathrezim to the Shadowlands) as well as why and how the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne ended up in Dreadlord hands to be given to the Legion.

hmm, now id actually like that more than any other possible lore ive seen for him yet
it would cement the dreadlords as true beings of disorder again, and give them back their role as one of the original evil beings (like back in the old lore, when their evil nature was the cause for sargeras's depression and fall)
it would also make the realm of disorder/fel itself be the "big villain" again (alongside the void), bc as of now, it feels like the the little loser child next to void and death

[arboachg]

The Jailer's teeth are just... ew.

I always say this: Just because you're a villain doesn't mean you can't take splendid care of your personal hygiene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh1CqCAc2fE

[Minikin]

To put my tinfoil hat on, I figure that the Maw wasn't actually meant to exist as it does now. It's redundant in the functioning of the Shadowlands. Revendreth already handles torture and change through it and with the chain motif is the closest to it, but it also borrows from the rest.

i dunno if thats true. the entry quest mentions that its a realm of penance. The Accuser also mentions that they do not "punish" that is the purpose of the maw. She also mentions that once a soul has done its service/penance it is sent back to the arbiter for "reassignment".

mind you. it could very well be that until Zovaal rebelled the maw didnt exist. But when he did it was made as a prison for him. The whole "brought he land mass together with his chains" thing.

Bastion is all about depersonalization for duty, with the Maw keeping depersonalization but using it to turn you into a weapon. Maldraxxus is the army of the Shadowlands, but the Maw has its own army with none of the factional problems and stronger than that. Even Ardenweald is some kind of recycling station and we know that the Maw is associated with the destruction of souls to give energy. In how it works, it feeds into the theory that the Jailor was originally the king there and these functions were him getting into the turf of the other leaders, ditto his goals (mentioned in the Dreadlord book) of expanding the influence of Death, where all others are fine with mostly keeping things as they are and continuing the cycle. Hell, the Arbiter as a counter-point to the Jailor is that cycle given a minimal level of mind and her mouthpiece, the Archon and the Jailor's own comments are mirrored in this trailer.

To me bastion is basically heaven, while the maw is hell. The other three are more in the middle.

This is my theory at least.
Anima is the fuel that runs the shadowlands.
The Jailer cannot have any or hell break free and destroy everything.
The Venthyr and Arbiter are key in this that:
- The Arbiter doesnot condemn a soul automatically to the maw.
- Everyone gets a chance at redemption through the venthyr.
- If it does come to the point that a soul is irredeemable, the venthyr strip it off its last bit of useful anima
- That soul is then sent back to oribos and transported to the maw for eternal punishment, but devoid of any anima that the jailer can use to get out.
- The jailer, using the nathreziem and sire denathrius managed to sneak out the lich king's armor, specifically frostmourne and the helm of domination.
- The "dark agent with the power of the maw in hand" (Arthas) wreaks havoc through azeroth claiming souls or pieces of them (Uther's fragment for example)
- Once Arthas was defeated and frostmourne broken that influx of souls/anima allowed the jailor enough sourced power to break out a little bit.
- When Bluther drops Arthas into the Maw after WOTLK, he adds what the jailer has been waiting for
- When Sylvanas broke the helm of domination it split it further
- And finally with the campaign end of the venthyr we see what denathrius did
he created the drought. he has been stockpiling the anima and at the end of the INITIAL campaign when confronted breaks the barriers between the realms, funneling all of it to the Maw.

The MOST NOTABLE effect of the last piece is when you go to oribos the first time and see the Maw, vs when you go to Oribos AFTER the venthyr campaign and see the Maw....the Maw is now huge. Like it is no longer just a swirling vortex out below. Its massive, almost like, just a bit more anima and it will engulf revendreth and maldraxxus or oribos.

This ties into the turf thing you mentioned.

I think the arcon and jailors dialogues are used because its heaven and hell.

NOW....try this for a tinfoil theory. I have been considering it since I did the Ardenweald campaign and it makes me wonder....

Xal'atath's quote
The God of the Deep writhes in his prison, breaking free ever so slowly. You should hurry and defeat the fallen titan... there are greater battles yet to fight.

could very well be about the Jailer. The book in the Spire of the Unseen Guest mentions that out of all the powers, ONLY THE VOID is dangerous due to their ability of foresight. That while the others are linear in motion and action, the void sees all possibilities and might become aware or is aware of their plans. Who knows? Did Xal'atath know? I mean heck, we know that Nzoth didnt put up much of a fight and that damned dagger found a way to get to naga, humans, hell Xal'atath has even been to the Seat of the Pantheon. And now its free to roam. Maybe it got into the shadowlands too or will. Or maybe the void is this crazy hivemind and they are aware of the plan.

*Note:
Bastion has a side quest not really related to the story so no spoilers really if i say it. It is a short 3 piece quest where you fight the forces of the void. And then you learn that ages ago the void attacked the shadowlands and would have won had a kyrian not blown itself up to beat the void general. And the way the quest is versed, it wasnt like the void was losing, it was winning. Like it was a last ditch effort

Doing the venthyr campaign you also learn about the light getting in their business.
When the Venthyr conducted their experiments at Sinfall, it was pretty bad, so much so that it afronted the light enough to strike at them turning the area into what is now known as the Ember Ward
in the dungeon sanguine depths a venthyr boss is subduing a naaru whos center you rescue and give to the brokers

And huge related spoilers in Sanguine Depths.

My point being, these powers are in flux and I think the void is the big bad ass mucking up with everyone and everything lol.

thank you @Ophenia . 10 years on these boards and i just now learn how to do that lol.

[Ophenia]

- And finally with the campaign end of the venthyr we see what denathrius did (dont know how to post the spoiler thing so dunno if i can speak openly about it yet).

[ Spoiler ] (and [ /spoiler ] to close) to write a blacked out text.

[Minikin]

[ Spoiler ] (and [ /spoiler ] to close) to write a blacked out text.

Thank you!!

[me4again]

The veil as in... The spirit realm broken through the tower of babel.