Alleria Windrunner

[bagina]

Blizzard love their corruption plots. In Overwtch we have Widowmaker

[Varodoc]

Kerrigan formula was a thing before SC2. Warcraft 3 was already giving Sylvanas the Kerrigan treatment 6 years before SC2 was even a thing, and that's not where the term would apply. TBF, I don't know why other people are even mentioning SC2, that entire plot was just... better left forgotten.

SC1 Kerrigan is the origin of the term, since it was one of the first big 'character twists' that Blizzard is now generally known for doing.

At the root of it all, the motivations are very similar - Revenge leading to power hunger after a void is left from a fallen super-power. For Kerrigan it was vengeance against Mengsk, and gaining power after the death of the Overmind, for Sylvanas it was vengeance against Arthas, and gaining power after the Lich King lost power over the Forsaken.

Why call it "the Kerrigan formula"? "Hero being corrupted, then liberated, then seeking revenge on their abuser" is such an old and common trope in fiction. That's why I always roll my eyes when people use buzz words like "Kerrigan 2.0", it's not like Blizzard invented it.

You cited Sylvanas, when Arthas is even more similar to Kerrigan. Especially now that we learn the Jailer was a strong presence within the Helm of Domination, which means Arthas was never truly free, even if he thought he was. That mirrors how Kerrigan in SC2 thought she was free, but was actually being influenced by Amon/Zerg mutagen as the Queen of Blades. In fact, in Legion an echo of the Lich King within the Blade of the Fallen Prince reflects on how no King is ever truly free before "Death".

But even before that, the fact that Arthas' final words were "Father, is it over?" in a relieved tone always made people speculate that something was wrong with the Helm, very clearly the Lich King was never truly free.

Regardless, let's stay on the tangent about Alleria being compared to Kerrigan/Arthas/Sylvanas-character type. She hardly has anything in common with them. Sure she was corrupted by a dark power, but unlike these fools, she doesn't moan 24/7 about how sad her life is and how broken she feels. Instead, she musters her willpower and strives to control these powers. That's something I respect, and it seems Blizzard does too. They concentrated a lot on showing how Alleria is rigorously training to become the best Void user in all of creation.

[Soon-TM]

She will end up going crazy

Nah, she's a loyal companion to the God King. That alone warrants that nothing bad will ever happen to her. Because the OG/Void whispers may drive even a Dragon Aspect to madness, but a random elven archer with anger issues, who happens to be one of Anduin's groupies? Forget it m8, not going to happen

[shadowmatrix]

Judging by your posts, you're so smart and witty that I will leave it for you to find out.

How can I find something that doesn't exist? I've looked at the basic's of Kerrigan's story and realized I ran into my first character like that in literature around 40 years.
Character is a fighter, gets betrayed by ally, starts attacking former friends, former loved one manages to bring them back to their senses, betrayer attacks them and kills/kidnaps loved one, character starts using their tainted skills once more to protect them and those they care for.

[Triceron]

Why call it "the Kerrigan formula"? "Hero being corrupted, then liberated, then seeking revenge on their abuser" is such an old and common trope in fiction. That's why I always roll my eyes when people use buzz words like "Kerrigan 2.0", it's not like Blizzard invented it.

Why not? We all know who Kerrigan is, and the formula is particular to Blizzard because it's a character trope that they use multiple times.

[Varodoc]

Why not? We all know who Kerrigan is, and the formula is particular to Blizzard because it's a character trope that they use multiple times.

Because it devalues Kerrigan and the other character.

Kerrigan is her own character.
Alleria is her own character.
Sylvanas is her own character.
Arthas is his own character.

It's fine to make comparisons for the sake of discussion, but calling these characters literally "2.0" versions of someone else is extremely reductive. These characters all have their nuances, and reducing them to "2.0" versions of someone else means ignoring all those nuances in favour of sticking a stupid label onto them.

[Triceron]

Why call it "the Kerrigan formula"? "Hero being corrupted, then liberated, then seeking revenge on their abuser" is such an old and common trope in fiction. That's why I always roll my eyes when people use buzz words like "Kerrigan 2.0", it's not like Blizzard invented it.

Why not? We all know who Kerrigan is, and the formula is particular to Blizzard because it's a character trope that they use multiple times.

You cited Sylvanas, when Arthas is even more similar to Kerrigan.

Yeah, almost like it's a pattern that Blizzard happens to use a lot of, isn't it? You could say it's almost formulaic.

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Because it devalues Kerrigan and the other character.

Kerrigan is her own character.
Alleria is her own character.
Sylvanas is her own character.
Arthas is his own character.

It's fine to make comparisons for the sake of discussion, but calling these characters literally "2.0" versions of someone else is extremely reductive.

FFS of course they're all their own character.

But it doesn't mean they aren't following some pretty damn obvious formulas to get their characters into what they are.

You really gonna be that obtuse to apply 'Kerrigan formula' as meaning they all literally became Zerg Queen of the Blades? That they all fell in love with Raynor? Jeez.

If you want a less character-specific generalization of their trope, then we could say they all became edgelords. How's that? The point IS to reduce them into archetypes because they ARE purposefully written that way. If you find that interesting then sure, be proud that you like edgy characters, but please don't pretend that these characters are actually bringing something unique or new to the table. It's all just variations of the same formula in different ways, with different results.

It's taking a character and either turning them into anti-heros or villains by going a darker path, and arguably taking that path because of an unwritten 'rule of cool' that Blizzard seems to like doing with their characters. This trend started with Kerrigan and was popularized by her, which is why it is the 'Kerrigan' formula. Other examples of this are Arthas and Illidan. Then it trickles down from there and has seeped into practically every notable big bad that was not introduced originally as a bad character.

For some it's a curse, for some it's intentional power grab, for some it's inevitable fate; whatever it is it's still the same basic formula of taking a good character and giving them some dark power for the sake of being cool. Garrosh, Greymane, Sylvanas, Alleria, Arthas, Illidan, Tyrande - the list goes on and on. They're just varying degrees of the same anti-hero/villain formula.

At no point do I say you can't *like* this. At no point do I say this devalues all the characters. But it should be obvious that this is a trope that Blizzard blatantly uses on many of their characters.

[Varodoc]

Why not? We all know who Kerrigan is, and the formula is particular to Blizzard because it's a character trope that they use multiple times.



Yeah, almost like it's a pattern that Blizzard happens to use a lot of, isn't it? You could say it's almost formulaic.

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FFS of course they're all their own character.

But it doesn't mean they aren't following some pretty damn obvious formulas to get their characters into what they are.

You really gonna be that obtuse to think 'Kerrigan formula' means they all literally became Zerg Queen of the Blades?

Getting pretty frustrated, are we? Sorry if I don't enjoy sticking vague labels onto independent characters for the sake of simplifying everything.

Neither does Blizzard, really. They always tried to avoid calling Sylvanas "Garrosh 2.0", because it's just reductive and boring to lump everyone under an arbitrary umbrella term.

[Triceron]

Getting pretty frustrated, are we? Sorry if I don't enjoy sticking vague labels onto independent characters for the sake of simplifying everything.

To be honest, if there's anyone to be frustrated over it's Blizzard's choice of characterization.

There are so many ways to write a character, so many directions to take Warcraft, and what they've deliberately chosen is the 'Superhero comics' route. And while there are even many ways to approach that sort of writing, often times its the trope that ends up driving the characteriziation of well known characters more so than any actual story progression.

And like, I totally get it, because there's no driving creative visionary behind the series. There's no Kevin Feige to reign it all in and make it all cohesive. And if certain characters are less interesting than others, instead of making an effort and bringing them forward into the light with actual character arcs, they just add in some drama and tension and have them 'go rogue' because it's a formula that just works for them. And I'm not even criticizing it at this point, it's just blatantly formulaic and we all know the fans love it.

At this point, Anduin is practically the only character who hasn't done this, and almost obviously because he is written in to be 'unique' in being one of the few who stands by his faith in the people around him rather than in some greater form of power.

[tommyhil622]

Why not? We all know who Kerrigan is, and the formula is particular to Blizzard because it's a character trope that they use multiple times.



Yeah, almost like it's a pattern that Blizzard happens to use a lot of, isn't it? You could say it's almost formulaic.

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FFS of course they're all their own character.

But it doesn't mean they aren't following some pretty damn obvious formulas to get their characters into what they are.

You really gonna be that obtuse to apply 'Kerrigan formula' as meaning they all literally became Zerg Queen of the Blades? That they all fell in love with Raynor? Jeez.

If you want a less character-specific generalization of their trope, then we could say they all became edgelords. How's that? The point IS to reduce them into archetypes because they ARE purposefully written that way. If you find that interesting then sure, be proud that you like edgy characters, but please don't pretend that these characters are actually bringing something unique or new to the table. It's all just variations of the same formula in different ways, with different results.

It's taking a character and either turning them into anti-heros or villains by going a darker path, and arguably taking that path because of an unwritten 'rule of cool' that Blizzard seems to like doing with their characters. This trend started with Kerrigan and was popularized by her, which is why it is the 'Kerrigan' formula. Other examples of this are Arthas and Illidan. Then it trickles down from there and has seeped into practically every notable big bad that was not introduced originally as a bad character.

For some it's a curse, for some it's intentional power grab, for some it's inevitable fate; whatever it is it's still the same basic formula of taking a good character and giving them some dark power for the sake of being cool. Garrosh, Greymane, Sylvanas, Alleria, Arthas, Illidan, Tyrande - the list goes on and on. They're just varying degrees of the same anti-hero/villain formula.

At no point do I say you can't *like* this. At no point do I say this devalues all the characters. But it should be obvious that this is a trope that Blizzard blatantly uses on many of their characters.

Unfortunately Alleria is just one of those one dimensional characters that are in reserved to be used in a later story line. The build up is there, i still think she's destined to be another Slyvannas. But that's just my personal opinion. Or they'll do the Kerrigan 20.0. I too wish for more interesting characters but we'll see.

[Varodoc]

Alleria is not one-dimensional, if you read her backstory you'll learn that she can be very ruthless if her loved ones are hurt. Back during the Invasion of Draenor she wanted to exterminate all orcs down to the last wretched grunt because they killed her little brother Lirath. In Shadows Rising, she is willing to do anything to find Sylvanas, even if it means adopting more... unquestionable methods. Unlike the other leaders of the Alliance, she won't bend down like a worthless weakling if her loved ones are hurt.

She won't end up like Sylvanas, because she serves no one. Sylvanas is a fool, she is obviously being played by the Jailer, but since she's so self-absorbed she has no clue. That won't happen to Alleria. She has no master, she serves no one. The Void Lords keep whispering to her but are getting nowhere. Only Alleria has a fundamental understanding of the forces upon which the cosmos is built.

Alleria will be the Bolvar/Khadgar-esque figure of a Void Lords expansion. This is much more likely to happen.

Plus she was introduced in WoW by Danuser. When you think about it, Nathanos and Sylvanas were already in WoW long before Danuser took the reins of writing, so maybe he's not so attached to them as he is to Alleria. Alleria was only present in WC2 (very old game) and some old novels before Legion, Danuser effectively "created" the WoW character as we know it. Since Danuser is so jealous of his creations, do you really think he'd turn Alleria into a raid boss? Plus she's hotter than Sylvanas, Danuser would take that into account too.

Not a chance. And I think the fact she was the boss of the Vision of Stormwind is obvious confirmation of this. They wouldn't make it so obvious if they really wanted her to become "evil".

All of the above can be applied to Turalyon as well. People think he's going to turn into a crazy fanatic, but it's not going to happen.

[Soon-TM]

Unfortunately Alleria is just one of those one dimensional characters that are in reserved to be used in a later story line. The build up is there, i still think she's destined to be another Slyvannas. But that's just my personal opinion. Or they'll do the Kerrigan 20.0. I too wish for more interesting characters but we'll see.

By contrast to Sylvie, who has officially been given the last rites (with the thumbs-down from Anduin), Alleria will probably do something very bad, very edgy and highly controversial, much like her emo sister. But unlike the latter, Alleria will be redeemed and reset to factory settings in a couple of expansions, aka Jaina 2.0

[Jackstraw]

Alleria is not one-dimensional

She's been made into a walking stereotype. At the moment she's a silent anti hero with no foil for her heroism to be put against, but in time we will definitely see her do her thing.

Also, please. Alleria and Turalyon are integral to WoW lore. Danuser cannot create nothing without retconning their motives.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, I can see stuff like what happened to Khagdar, fleshing them both out a little. Turalyon post army of light disappoints me a little, but I guess time will tell.

[Varodoc]

She's been made into a walking stereotype. At the moment she's a silent anti hero with no foil for her heroism to be put against, but in time we will definitely see her do her thing.

Also, please. Alleria and Turalyon are integral to WoW lore. Danuser cannot create nothing without retconning their motives.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, I can see stuff like what happened to Khagdar, fleshing them both out a little. Turalyon post army of light disappoints me a little, but I guess time will tell.

Yes but it's Danuser who reintroduced them with new gimmick. Turalyon, before his return, was not known as a... what's the term, "draenei weeb". Alleria, before her return, was not known as a proficient Void user. For his contribution, Danuser has my appreciation.

[Jackstraw]

Yes but it's Danuser who reintroduced them with new gimmick. Turalyon, before his return, was not known as a... what's the term, "draenei weeb". Alleria, before her return, was not known as a proficient Void user. For his contribution, Danuser has my appreciation.

Alleria, before her return, was a ruthless hunter who loathed trolls and the Horde for what they did to her people. The Ranger General was picked for the Dark Portal commando for two reasons: her proficiency in tracking and scouting, and her efficiency in killing Horde specifically.
Now she's a proto anti hero with a number of edges and Jaina level of "potential" being piled onto her, ready to pay off. Which has me admittedly curious.

Turalyon, before her return, surely wasn't a draenei weeb. Was a timid cleric who became the first Paladin by rallying the armies of Lordaeron against Orgrim Doomhammer and Blackrock, his zealotry and mourning being the forge in which his leadership skills got forged.
Now he's a light zealot willing to compromise when it comes down to his wife. Which is understandable, but I mean.

Danuser took two historic characters and started doing his thing with them. I despise his cheap way of writing, and hope he will do justice to such an integral part of what Warcraft is. Or used to be given the quote on the current narrative being seen as constraining.
I'm not hopeful anymore after BfA on anything this team can produce.

[Raetary]

I understood the cinematic perfectly, we are disagreeing on something that has nothing to do with the cinematic. Separating the light from a user of the light.

She isn't a random user tho, she's a Naaru.
She's Light manifest, she literally IS Light.

Not to mention that she's the highest ranking Naaru character we have seen so far.

[Varodoc]

The Ember Ward once again proves that the Light is NOT good. The entire area was scorched and devastated by the Light, which turned it into a dessicated wasteland with its radiant power.

The Void is not evil, the Light is not good. People need to understand this. The Void corrupted Mac'aree, the Light devastated Revendreth. The writing is on the wall, we've moved on from "Light = Good, Shadow = Evil" long ago.

Alleria Windrunner is NOT evil just because she wields the Void, and is not destined to become evil just because she wields the Void. They are weapons, nothing more. As with any weapon, one must learn to control it, but it is possible to do so.

[tommyhil622]

The Ember Ward once again proves that the Light is NOT good. The entire area was scorched and devastated by the Light, which turned it into a dessicated wasteland with its radiant power.

The Void is not evil, the Light is not good. People need to understand this. The Void corrupted Mac'aree, the Light devastated Revendreth. The writing is on the wall, we've moved on from "Light = Good, Shadow = Evil" long ago.

Alleria Windrunner is NOT evil just because she wields the Void, and is not destined to become evil just because she wields the Void. They are weapons, nothing more. As with any weapon, one must learn to control it, but it is possible to do so.

We haven't moved anything actually. The point is the void has consistently corrupted individuals far more powerful and important than Alleria. She's managed to hold the whsipers at bay for now. Being predisposed to a toward any given character should be set aside to discuss he or she objectively. She's playing with fire and will get burned. I don't think its a 100% that she will but objectively speaking shes vulnerable to it. She's said so herself. Not sure why people keep bringing up the Light, has nothing to do with the discussion.

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She isn't a random user tho, she's a Naaru.
She's Light manifest, she literally IS Light.

Not to mention that she's the highest ranking Naaru character we have seen so far.

I disagree with your assessment here but what does your characterization of Xe'ra and the light have to do with Alleria's vulnerability to corruption?

[Varodoc]

We haven't moved anything actually. The point is the void has consistently corrupted individuals far more powerful and important than Alleria. She's managed to hold the whsipers at bay for now. Being predisposed to a toward any given character should be set aside to discuss he or she objectively. She's playing with fire and will get burned. I don't think its a 100% that she will but objectively speaking shes vulnerable to it. She's said so herself. Not sure why people keep bringing up the Light, has nothing to do with the discussion.

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I disagree with your assessment here but what does your characterization of Xe'ra and the light have to do with Alleria's vulnerability to corruption?

Actually she had a vision where she saw herself replacing the Void Lords as the almighty goddess of darkness. You are too fearful, stop being scared of the Void just because it is "so shadowy and ominous". It's just a wretched weapon to be enslaved by a will strong enough, nothing more.

[loras]

Actually she had a vision where she saw herself replacing the Void Lords as the almighty goddess of darkness. You are too fearful, stop being scared of the Void just because it is "so shadowy and ominous". It's just a wretched weapon to be enslaved by a will strong enough, nothing more.

It's literally just the laziest cosmic force since it knows that in the end it is always going to win.
It's literally entropy; it just outlasts the universe and eats the spoils as it messes around to see whether it can optionally speed up the process.

I mean where do you think the alternate timelines go? They fade to nothing. Nothing is the true void, the void is truly nothing.

https://xkcd.com/926/