More toxic than ever.

[chiddie]

the degree of toxicity is also dependant on your role: if you sign up as tank and cant tank or if you sign up as healer and cant heal is very different from being a not so good dps.

Not being able to heal is arguable at most. If people stay in bad pools, take tons of damage and don’t know mechanics, no healer can keep you up unless he vastly outgears the M+ level. And it’s not his fault in the slightest.

[erifwodahs]

All competitive games, not cooperative games. Everyone knows competitive games are toxic as hell. If this behavior was isolated to PvP in wow, we wouldn't be having this conversation. WoW has a uniquely toxic cooperative game.

- - - Updated - - -

Competitive cooperative - same as WoW. Player VERSUS Environment, Player VERSUS Player, Team VERSUS Team. WoW is Team VERSUS Environment. It all indicates some competition. Also we have gear, meters, score and logs competition in WoW.
If you think that you can go into a raid in FF with a pug and get all flowers and butterflies, oh boy.
Aion was very toxic game when it went free to play. Not even talking about L2, people would go as far as DDoSing their competitor clans so they did not kill a boss and that was my noob experience there, I did not even look at higher end clans.

[T-34]

What you mean like a delivery man?

If you would kick 2 people because 1 of them went afk for 20 seconds, then you're just a.... Not gonna say it . It's 20 fucking seconds, get over it, people don't give a FUCK about each other, what is he supposed to fucking do. EVERYONE has to open the fucking door time to time for a delivery guy, is he supposed to just fucking ignore the delivery person? Ridiculous response. Maybe think about my friend's situation and ask yourself what would you do before you respond with how you would be just as toxic.

"Had they reported you as well then you would most likely gotten an infraction." If Blizzard bans me then they can lose a sub of 15+ years, fuck them, they can keep their shitty toxic players and lose their loyal kind ones.

I have no idea why somebody goes AFK. I cannot know if they tell the truth or how long time they will be gone. I only know that that person is wasting my time. My time > somebody random's time. For me personally time-wasting is one of the most toxic things you can do to me. For other people such behaviour isn't toxic at all.

Everybody will get kicked from a dungeon from time to time. It happens rarely to me, mostly because I keep my mouth shut in LFD and do my best so the run is efficient and fast.
And if I do get kicked, fairly or not, it is a waste of my time and mental health to get mad about it. You should just shrug and move on.

"Toxicity" is subjective, and what is "toxic" for you isn't toxic for someone else and the other way around.
You had a "toxic" experience, but those 3 people that kicked you and your friend also had a "toxic" experience. At the end of the day Blizzard doesn't want to get involved in such scrabbles and lets the majority decide what is "toxic" or not.

[NineSpine]

Competitive cooperative - same as WoW. Player VERSUS Environment, Player VERSUS Player, Team VERSUS Team. WoW is Team VERSUS Environment. It all indicates some competition. Also we have gear, meters, score and logs competition in WoW.
If you think that you can go into a raid in FF with a pug and get all flowers and butterflies, oh boy.
Aion was very toxic game when it went free to play. Not even talking about L2, people would go as far as DDoSing their competitor clans so they did not kill a boss and that was my noob experience there, I did not even look at higher end clans.

If your only point is some stoned dorm room argument of "But broooooo isn't like... ALL OF LIFE competitive broooooo" then you have fun with that, but I'm certainly not wasting my time on it.

[erifwodahs]

Again, a guild does not mean “yey no more pugs”, no guilds can make you enter an m+ whatever the level of m+ and whenever you login in a time slot of 10-15 minutes.

There will be MANY times you’ll have to pug anyways.

if you have to pug 1-3 people instead of 5 you have way better chance to succeed. I have been playing with my healer for most of 8.2 and start of 8.3 and I can only recall three encounters in probably what was over 300 dungeon runs.
I got more people since then so we only really pug one or two people, so only had one negative encounter since later half of 8.3. What usually happens is if we wipe twice in a row in a time consuming manner it's silent agreement in the group that the key is dead and there is no point to waste time. Any experienced player knows that is truth and would not oppose it.

[Kaver]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

I would quit the game if I had to pug content. WOW is only fun if you play with friends and guildies.

[exsanguinate]

Welcome to World of Warcraft in 2020.

It's not world of warcraft it's the fact that people can say everything they want hiding behind their screen without getting punched in the face for it. That's the issue.

[NineSpine]

I have no idea why somebody goes AFK. I cannot know if they tell the truth or how long time they will be gone. I only know that that person is wasting my time. My time > somebody random's time. For me personally time-wasting is one of the most toxic things you can do to me. For other people such behaviour isn't toxic at all.

And here we see the root of all toxicity in its purest form: A crybully mentality that the rest of the world needs to conform to your anti-social horseshit or else you are *sniff sniff cry cry* the REAL victim here.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not world of warcraft it's the fact that people can say everything they want hiding behind their screen without getting punched in the face for it. That's the issue.

Then why isn't this a problem in other cooperative games?

[erifwodahs]

If your only point is some stoned dorm room argument of "But broooooo isn't like... ALL OF LIFE competitive broooooo" then you have fun with that, but I'm certainly not wasting my time on it.

So you are basically dismissing the thing, that other games are actually cooperative too so it can be compared to WoW very easily. The factor is just reduced by 50% PvE only has 50% of the PvP components - players. Cooperative side is still the same and can be absolutely compared.

[NineSpine]

So you are basically dismissing the thing, that other games are actually cooperative too so it can be compared to WoW very easily. The factor is just reduced by 50% PvE only has 50% of the PvP components - players. Cooperative side is still the same and can be absolutely compared.

I don't care. The fact is that WoW has a uniquely toxic community among cooperative games. Saying "Competitive games are toxic too!" doesn't address that issue at all. It's a lazy, boring deflection.

[erifwodahs]

I don't care. The fact is that WoW has a uniquely toxic community among cooperative games. Saying "Competitive games are toxic too!" doesn't address that issue at all. It's a lazy, boring deflection.

My point it's not uniquely toxic. It is more or less the same as other games where you play with randos. In wow you can at least join guild or community and play with them which eliminates it, unless you join a random first invite guild with 200 people online.

[NineSpine]

My point it's not uniquely toxic. It is more or less the same as other games where you play with randos. In wow you can at least join guild or community and play with them which eliminates it, unless you join a random first invite guild with 200 people online.

But it IS uniquely toxic among cooperative games, and desperately trying to change the topic to competitive games doesn't do anything to further a discussion about that.

[Bigbazz]

So im playing on and off since day one.
Used to play in a very good guild pushing content hard with a few realm first boss kills etc [ive grown up since and dont care for trivial stuff like that anymore] more power to those that do but its just not for me anymore, life is too busy for that.
These days im a lot more casual, no interest in raiding but do like to do mythics.
My guild have died off so im pugging content but my god is this game more toxic than ever.
Every single mythic run there are arguments, toxic abuse, really bad stuff not just blame game etc.
Its actually got to the stage where im questioning playing anymore as im holding my breath every time i join a mythic group, its just too stressful.
Maybe its a society thing but im not so sure as i play other games and few are this toxic.
Grow a thick skin you might say but ive grown a very thick one over the last 16 years but right now im finding it hard to log in anymore.

I'm pretty much you as a gamer. I used to raid semi hardcore and care about logs, progression rankings etc, but then you realise it's all meaningless and you don't have enough time for it anyway, even if I did my guild (dating to april 2005) is now dead and most of the players are scattered or don't play at all.

All that said, I only had 1 bad experience last week in M0, in Plaguefall the tank just wasn't able to hold agro and the whole group was taking massive melee damage from facetanking slimes, on top of that the dps was low (2-3 were combined about equal to myself) so the slimes were dying slowly. I pointed out the group taking melee damage from agro and tried to suggest a solution and the tank denied it and got angry, people don't like to be criticised and don't take it well even if it's necessary to proceed.

I was the group leader but just left them to it and joined another group that steamrolled through, this is why standards are high in dungeons, people don't want to have to deal with the above situation and unfortunately everyone gets caught up in that whether they are incredible players or complete noobs, unless they have some proof of ability. he pugging experience is bad because you're balancing between players who aren't good enough to do the content and players who are trying to avoid playing with players who aren't good enough. Nobody wants to wipe on a boss 3 times, and the younger players are quick to turno into obnoxious little shits.

Everything else has been smooth sailing for me in SL, the more toxic younger generation of online players is just part of online gaming.

[T-34]

No, stop dodging my point.

By your own logic - It is extremely rude to waste someone else's time. OK so what about the delivery driver standing outside waiting when he can literally see my friend through the window on his PC.

My friend didn't just go AFK, he opened the damn chat and said, I'm just opening the door ill be 60s! Sorry but in normal peoples worlds, you don't punish/kick someone, you just wait 60s. If they repeatedly do it, then you can kick them, but if you kick someone for being gone 20s, you've got issues. This isn't an opinion, you've got issues if you are so damn inconvenienced after 20 seconds that you fuck someone.

Regarding paragraph 2, you're just dodging the points again. Admit it dude, you made a mistake in your logic and my friend didn't deserve to be kicked after 20s, and it was those 3 people in the wrong. Fuck Blizzards policy, your argument is as illogical as stating ALL laws are perfect and never abused. Blizzard has repeatedly enabled and disabled the kick option because they know groups that enter content with a majority can kick at will. There was 3 of them, I couldn't stop them, and they abused it. That is toxic. Again, if Blizzard wants their game full of people who think they can just do whatever the fuck they want with no consideration for others, go for it, but that's ridiculous. Dont worry I did move on, I put them on my ignore list, and if I ever see them in a dungeon group ill be sure to kick them just to fuck over their day to make them realize what its like being kicked for nothing. What goes around comes around. Ill get the last laugh.

Again, turn this into an argument of subjectivity. Put a gun to my head and tell me to vote on whether the majority would find that behaviour reprehensible, toxic and above all, something they WANT to see in their gaming experience and I'm 99% sure ill survive that bet. I don't give a f about subjectivity, I feel like I've got a pretty damn strong moral compass and I wouldn't screw them over because I'm actually a nice guy. Id just carry on then if they get back within a minute or so, and then they say "sorry for that!" id be like "Nw's dude np" and move on. If they keep doing it sure ill kick them and say srry you keep going afk, go deal with your shit then play. But Ill never sit here and accept opinions like yours that what they did was fair or right.

I don't care about your friend's delivery and how long time he was gone. If you go AFK then you are toxic in my book and I don't care one bit about why and what you write in in-game chat.

You can have as strong a "moral compass" as you want, but that doesn't change that neither you, I, your friend, "the majority" decides what is wrong in-game. It is solely Blizzard that decides that and Blizzard's policy on kicking is crystal clear: If the majority in a group wants to remove a group member then they have the right to do so and furthermore all reasons are equally good.

And in your case your "moral compass" and "your gun to your head" was 100% wrong. Because both you and your friend got kicked.

Good for you that your gun was loaded with blanks, eh?

[NineSpine]

I don't care about your friend's delivery and how long time he was gone. If you go AFK then you are toxic in my book and I don't care one bit about why and what you write in in-game chat.

You can have as strong a "moral compass" as you want, but that doesn't change that neither you, I, your friend, "the majority" decides what is wrong in-game. It is solely Blizzard that decides that and Blizzard's policy on kicking is crystal clear: If the majority in a group wants to remove a group member then they have the right to do so and furthermore all reasons are equally good.

And in your case your "moral compass" and "your gun to your head" was 100% wrong. Because both you and your friend got kicked.

Good for you that your gun was loaded with blanks, eh?

I don't think you quite get it: Blizzard gives you the right to be an absolute dickhead in this situation, but the right to be a dickhead doesn't absolve one of being a dickhead. In fact, acting as though the ability to be a dickhead makes it justifiable to be a dickhead only exponentially increases the dickheadedness in this situation.

[T-34]

And here we see the root of all toxicity in its purest form: A crybully mentality that the rest of the world needs to conform to your anti-social horseshit or else you are *sniff sniff cry cry* the REAL victim here.

I find it quite amusing that those who are so much opposed to "toxic" behaviour use such vile language.

I've never claimed that the rest of the World should do as I want, I am perfectly aware that, and also stated in my post, that what one person finds "toxic" isn't what another finds "toxic".
It is just my experience in-game that kicks initiated to kick AFK'ers more often than not pass. And that suits me very well.

[erifwodahs]

But it IS uniquely toxic among cooperative games, and desperately trying to change the topic to competitive games doesn't do anything to further a discussion about that.

How so? What makes you say that is uniquely toxic?

[T-34]

I don't think you quite get it: Blizzard gives you the right to be an absolute dickhead in this situation, but the right to be a dickhead doesn't absolve one of being a dickhead. In fact, acting as though the ability to be a dickhead makes it justifiable to be a dickhead only exponentially increases the dickheadedness in this situation.

I support you fully in your right to have any opinion about other player in-game.

[NineSpine]

I find it quite amusing that those who are so much opposed to "toxic" behaviour use such vile language.

Spare me your phony offense.

I've never claimed that the rest of the World should do as I want, I am perfectly aware that, and also stated in my post, that what one person finds "toxic" isn't what another finds "toxic".
It is just my experience in-game that kicks initiated to kick AFK'ers more often than not pass. And that suits me very well.

If you want to be a toxic bully, just be a toxic bully. All I'm asking is to quit the dishonest whining about how you are really the victim here.

[Zmagoslav]

Well you get what you give.

You have a clear choice between putting a bit of effort into your social environment and getting some back (in form of less abose, toxicity,...)
and putting none into it, and ending up not receiving any.