As I feared a few minutes after Covenants were announced....it will get worse

[Nalam the Venom]

I just wish blizz would add more gear/progress things to the Blizz store, So that people can still progress their character without having to interact with those that can deny you spots based on these metrics.

A lot of other games offer such "alternative" ways to gear and progress

[clevin]

This post is the very definition of tryhard.

[Toybox]

I just wish blizz would add more gear/progress things to the Blizz store, So that people can still progress their character without having to interact with those that can deny you spots based on these metrics.

A lot of other games offer such "alternative" ways to gear and progress

What on earth is the point of paying not to play a game?

[crusadernero]

I just wish blizz would add more gear/progress things to the Blizz store, So that people can still progress their character without having to interact with those that can deny you spots based on these metrics.

A lot of other games offer such "alternative" ways to gear and progress

Why? You should play the game in order to progress your character. Whats the point of having power progression on the store? It would devalue everything in the game.

If you want to progress in SL, stick with 1-2 characters. Do the weekly stuff. Do dungeons/pvp at a normal pace. You get well geared easy enough.

SL requires LESS time online than BfA did to gain power progression on your character.

[Daronokk]

Some people may feel that way. I personally don't, I took the covenant I identified with most even though I will be raiding.

I would do the same but sadly I can't seem to identify with any of the covenants at all and thus can't play this expansion.

[clevin]

A guild would get much better results focusing on improving mechanical skill over the "right" covenant choice.

But that's hard and requires effort and independent thought.

[Nalam the Venom]

What on earth is the point of paying not to play a game?

I'd still play the game, i'd just be playing the game with better gear.

- - - Updated - - -

Why? You should play the game in order to progress your character. Whats the point of having power progression on the store? It would devalue everything in the game.

I don't care how i get something as long as i get it.


I'd pay for like an extra 2 renown per week, or pay to unlock +15 weekly chest with just a click of a button, Maby add some anima bundles as well.

I mean, Would be very nice to just get things instantly and not have to worry about finding a raid or dungeon team, A store option can basiclly just remove all "stressful" or annoying parts.

Plenty of games do this to great success, I mean just look a the recent genshin impact, Millions in revenue in just a month.

in Another game "Black desert" you can also buy the the best gear straight up from the marketplace, has a very extensive cash shop as well and this game is very popular as well

[VinceVega]

Original thread 10 minutes after Covenants were announced
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779

and now the results:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319716/...io#wowranks-io

As has been predicted from the day this feature was announced even with heavy nerfs people would have to be willing to purposely gimp themselves in PVP and PVE just for an aesthetic choice. Once Raider IO takes over the expansions tomorrow this will get far worse not including raiding.

Out of the source information I can count 10 specs (not at 50% concentrated) that have an option on what they want to play but some of those are before impending nerfs that will force the players to optimize their Covenant choices.

Why Blizzard why did you do this? For those of you enjoying the expansion I say great and have fun but the freight train is coming in the form of FARRRR more power unlocks, gear scaling making the differences far more stark and far more access to meaningful abilities.

1. There are only a handfull of specs who have HUGE discrepancies.
2. If you are in a guild who cares about that you KNEW for months.
3. If you want to change do it, and play your alt with the stuff you like.
4. Stop whining ALL THE FREAKING TIME.

I was on team change whenever you want team. But honestly it does not matter. The connection to the covenant is minium. 2 hours of quests a week and a transmog no one will ever use becuase everyone has it. The table has a different color and the feature is not really enganging. A little bit of fun yeah. But... honestly... there is not much connecting you to the covenant. So if oyu care that much about optimizatio take what is best. Doesn't really matter.

[crusadernero]

I'd still play the game, i'd just be playing the game with better gear.

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I don't care how i get something as long as i get it.


I'd pay for like an extra 2 renown per week, or pay to unlock +15 weekly chest with just a click of a button, Maby add some anima bundles as well.

I mean, Would be very nice to just get things instantly and not have to worry about finding a raid or dungeon team.

Plenty of games do this to great success, I mean just look a the recent genshin impact, Millions in revenue in just a month.

You do realise that Renown wont give you that much player power? Most of the stuff there are cosmetics, lore/quest campaign, mount and sutff like that. We are two weeks into SL and the renown levels are supposed to last a while so you progress over time.

BTW - I lvld my Alliance Paladin first, then my Horde Hunter. Leveling was done in no time and I got to the same renown lvl as paladin very quickly. It was actually cooler on the hunter cause I got to do more instead of waiting for next reset.

The catch up is there for it and it works well.

Comparing Genshin to wow is like comparing apples to oranges. Two different kind of games. Genshin is a game that will be forgotten and never talked about in not to long time, while wow has a formula that has kept them going for over 15 years.

Putting player power on the store would kill wow as it has been for 15+ years, and I think most people that play the game dont want that. Having cosmetics and mounts is OK enough(even though I dont want that either there).

Why even get gear if you cant be bothered getting a group for a raid or dungeon? Whats the purpose then?

SL doesnt require much of you. Got the skill, you can get very good geared in no time.

[Nyel]

then blizzard should buff those abilities

They had months of beta and left a bunch of Covenant skills completely useless although there were tons of feedback. Then there are the majority of Covenant skills that are not terrible, just severly undertuned. And then we have the clearly overpowered skills. The result which class / spec is favoring which Covenant we are seeing now.

E.g., Condemn, the Venthyr skill for Warriors contributes to 15-25% of their overall damage. Does that sound balanced?

[Puremallace]

This post is the very definition of tryhard.

No this post is to tell people who said

"It is just BETA"
" We do not need #pulltheripcord"
"People will play what they want"
"It is all a big overreaction"
"Only the 1% will try to optimize"
"We have real choices"

^ Those people were wrong and the people who have paid attention for 16+ years realized that the WoW community would gravitate to the FOTM/Min/Max specs. Somebody needs to raise the alarm now because right now this expansion is getting a massive pass because "it is not BFA" but it has extremely core fundamental issues that are about to snowball very badly as item level increases.

This is a broken system and there is no defending it and the best reasoning I have seen from anyone is "well atleast it is not Azerite" or BFA. That is it when it comes to valid argument on why this system is not busted.

Let me make this clear. If you are a Paladin and do not go Kyrian right now then you are a trash player that only serves to slow down groups for your own RP purposes. It is rude to any guild you are in and if you get benched during a raid because you like vampires then do not cry.

A lot of guild leaders are being nice right now because they are rebuilding after BFA ESPECIALLY when it comes to Paladins but reality is about to hit a lot of these nice guild leaders in the face when they get stuck on raid bosses because half the guild wanted to RP and people who actually want to make any progress in a gear starved expansion leave in mass for guilds that do take this semi seriously.

[Chickat]

Some people may feel that way. I personally don't, I took the covenant I identified with most even though I will be raiding.

Anyone who rejects someone for their covenant is dumb unless you are a top 200 world raider. Thats my opinion. You can clear any mythic raid with any covenant once properly geared.

[beanman12345]

I just went with the what I think is the best xmog for the class/race i'm playing.

locking abilities to it was stupid so I just ignore it, cause fuck it.

[darklogrus]

No this post is to tell people who said

"It is just BETA"
" We do not need #pulltheripcord"
"People will play what they want"
"It is all a big overreaction"
"Only the 1% will try to optimize"
"We have real choices"

^ Those people were wrong and the people who have paid attention for 16+ years realized that the WoW community would gravitate to the FOTM/Min/Max specs. Somebody needs to raise the alarm now because right now this expansion is getting a massive pass because "it is not BFA" but it has extremely core fundamental issues that are about to snowball very badly as item level increases.

This is a broken system and there is no defending it and the best reasoning I have seen from anyone is "well atleast it is not Azerite" or BFA. That is it when it comes to valid argument on why this system is not busted.

Let me make this clear. If you are a Paladin and do not go Kyrian right now then you are a trash player that only serves to slow down groups for your own RP purposes. It is rude to any guild you are in and if you get benched during a raid because you like vampires then do not cry.

A lot of guild leaders are being nice right now because they are rebuilding after BFA ESPECIALLY when it comes to Paladins but reality is about to hit a lot of these nice guild leaders in the face when they get stuck on raid bosses because half the guild wanted to RP and people who actually want to make any progress in a gear starved expansion leave in mass for guilds that do take this semi seriously.

Going to be interesting to see what happens after a couple weeks in M+ pushing keys and 2 weeks of raiding to see just how lopsided everything actually lands.

[Puremallace]

Going to be interesting to see what happens after a couple weeks in M+ pushing keys and 2 weeks of raiding to see just how lopsided everything actually lands.

If most of the Covenants are not 80% lopsided after watching your spec get smoked on a meter as ilvl starts to play a massive roll I will be absolutely shocked. The real hammer I am waiting to drop is when Blizzard realizes this and starts with the nerf hammer on Covenant abilities that will just kill certain specs and barely touch others.

What annoys me is this was so predictable. That post I made was literally while Ion was on stage describing Covenants the first time.

[rhorle]

If most of the Covenants are not 80% lopsided after watching your spec get smoked on a meter as ilvl starts to play a massive roll I will be absolutely shocked. The real hammer I am waiting to drop is when Blizzard realizes this and starts with the nerf hammer on Covenant abilities that will just kill certain specs and barely touch others.

Weird how the normal factors of item level, spec, individual skill, etc are all playing a more important role for group dynamics then covenants. It sort of undermines your argument that covenants are such a major impact if all the normal stuff is a greater one.

[ymirsson]

I'm tired of this argument, because it paints the picture that skill or character stat optimisation is an either/or choice. Maybe a guild would be better picking one over the other, but picking both wherever applicable is the way progress minded people tend to play. After all, what's the point of figuring out that final 5-10% of your rotation when you're just going to leave a free 5-10% damage buff on the table for no reason?

so everyone has to pick the optimal choice everytime?

[RobertMugabe]

Original thread 10 minutes after Covenants were announced
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nts-now/348779

and now the results:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319716/...io#wowranks-io

As has been predicted from the day this feature was announced even with heavy nerfs people would have to be willing to purposely gimp themselves in PVP and PVE just for an aesthetic choice. Once Raider IO takes over the expansions tomorrow this will get far worse not including raiding.

Out of the source information I can count 10 specs (not at 50% concentrated) that have an option on what they want to play but some of those are before impending nerfs that will force the players to optimize their Covenant choices.

Why Blizzard why did you do this? For those of you enjoying the expansion I say great and have fun but the freight train is coming in the form of FARRRR more power unlocks, gear scaling making the differences far more stark and far more access to meaningful abilities.

What ONLY matters in terms of performance is actually the functionality that these spells and soulbinds bring. The % dmg or healing they do are meaningless, since this can always be easily balanced around.

[Unlimited Power]

Kyrian was, at least at the time of launch, the numerically superior dps covenant for shamans, and understanding that fully well, I went Venthyr anyway because the Kyrians simply don't interest me in the least.

And even if the Night Fae or Necrolord transmog interested me more or their abilities were numerically superior, I'd still stick with Venthyr because their whole aesthetic pleases me far more and their ability feels so much more impactful, especially as enhancement shaman.

Frankly the only thing I wish I could have from another covenant is the blink/spirit form from the Night Fae, but even that I can't justify given Ghost Wolf form can already reach 60% passive movespeed with warmode talents active, and I exclusively play with warmode active.

[ldev]

No. Because that's not even remotely true. All the covenants are viable for all the speccs. And those covenants that you claim is the same as being unequipped, have a lot of added benefits which you can't find in the other covenants, like survivability and mobility, which was the point of my thread.

The fact that you can do CE with any covenant combination is direct evidence that the covenant system is working as intended.

How is DPS loss for using covenant ability "viable", please do explain.