First raid overall difficulty?

[kamuimac]

ITT: Lots of people realise how bad they really are.

people know they are bad at game.

thats why they have no problem to stick to lfr/normal .

its a fallacy that players 1 day will suddenly rise to the chalenge and decide that they want ot be hc mode raiders .

but they want to have their well tuned normal to have something to do .

it has been proven numerous times that overtuning of raids dont work - people rather quit game then chalenge content.

this time will be no different

they basickly reverted game to the state it was in cataclysm

wouldnt surprise me if they copied MoP model and put in "gear upgrades" with weekly cap in a month time.

wouldnt surprise me either if those "gear upgrades" came from ash in thorgast - as people are already bored with it and only reason they are doing it is legendaries - but in month they will be done and thorgast will be forgotten.

[Doffen]

I like what I read. Its about time they make normal/heroic a bit harder than what is has been for the players that are skilled but don't want to join another guild for mythic but rather wants to raid with their friends and don't have enough for mythic themselves.

At least keep heroic a proper difficulty for some real progress.

[kamuimac]

Tried normal with PuG (can't raid with guild). Most of us didn't know the mechanics beforehand.

3 wipes on first boss.

Around 12 wipes on the 2nd boss (the one with pets). Decided to call it. I was tanking it, it seemed that healers were going oom half way through the fight

The difficulty seems fine. It will require more gear and practice.

which gear ? there is no gear progression outside of raiding / mythic +

unless your "we will need more gear " in fact means "we will spam mythic + for gear before going into raid.

this model would kill both mythic + and raiding at the same time.

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I like what I read. Its about time they make normal/heroic a bit harder than what is has been for the players that are skilled but don't want to join another guild for mythic but rather wants to raid with their friends and don't have enough for mythic themselves.

At least keep heroic a proper difficulty for some real progress.

people who are skilled have mythic raiding to do.

people who are not skilled now have nothing to do and will quit game

they quit in past - they will quit now too.

unless your aim is to actually kill wow for good

its exackly the same bs that we seen in WoD - copied almost 1:1

[Ragnarohk]

which gear ? there is no gear progression outside of raiding / mythic +

unless your "we will need more gear " in fact means "we will spam mythic + for gear before going into raid.

this model would kill both mythic + and raiding at the same time.

I meant that, yes. And legendaries, i'm crafting mine tomorrow probably

I mean, the gear thing was broken since launch. Some of us wanted to focus on Torghast and we will be " Forced" To do mythic+ or raids to do so.

[Noctesolis]

I remember my first time in a Sunwell difficulty tier. All of the top mythic guilds are already crying that it’s overturned. Sorry guys, it’s not meant to be cleared overnight regardless of how good you think you are at mashing keys with your addons telling you what to do.

[InfernalDark]

Normal Altimor seems a bit overtuned

[kosajk]

yes.

actully not - they want to "make it longer" now that there is no TF to keep people farming

but it wil backfire already on week 1 with people rather qutting then struggling with normal difficulty

what could have worked is if they relase whole LFR open next week - this way casual guilds which will be unable to kill more then 3 bosses on normal would have content to do .

but blizzard is too stubbon to even consider they plans are flawed

look at idiotic amount of timegating with renown / ash - they know this expansion is bad - and bett everything on timegates

wait and see that in 2 weeks you will see another 6 months deal with transmog/mount

ehh well i find it ok doing daily activities in 30-40 mins and then you can focus on some gathering or PvP aspects of the game looks fine for me

[ryjkur]

Remember when majority of guilds didnt clear Ulduar or ICC on first week even on normal? And those are still considered one of the beast raids.

[Tavin]

So many comments of "QQ the raids arent tuned properly"... Well what is a properly tuned raid?

Is that so You can clear it in 2 hours and then log off for 7 days? Or is it to give you some challenge. This is the entry level raid that youre going to be stuck with for a good +3 months. You don't want to be able to power through it in green gear.

[Mendzia]

I've watched a few streams yesterday... and i love the difficulty of normal.
Seeing Asmonbald malding and unable of being carried is pure gold. EZ Clap
One step closer for me to be back to retail.

[ohwell]

people know they are bad at game.

thats why they have no problem to stick to lfr/normal .

its a fallacy that players 1 day will suddenly rise to the chalenge and decide that they want ot be hc mode raiders .

but they want to have their well tuned normal to have something to do .

it has been proven numerous times that overtuning of raids dont work - people rather quit game then chalenge content.

this time will be no different

they basickly reverted game to the state it was in cataclysm

wouldnt surprise me if they copied MoP model and put in "gear upgrades" with weekly cap in a month time.

wouldnt surprise me either if those "gear upgrades" came from ash in thorgast - as people are already bored with it and only reason they are doing it is legendaries - but in month they will be done and thorgast will be forgotten.

That has never been proven. I love how people like to keep spouting that lie. Nobody quit in cata over heroics. Nobody is quitting over hard raids. Try again.

[Marrilaife]

Remember when majority of guilds didnt clear Ulduar or ICC on first seek even on normal? And those are still considered one of the beast raids.

History lesson for you: there was no "normal" then.

Wotlk "normal" is current heroic. Wotlk "heroic" is current mythic. Current "normal" was added in MOP Siege of Orgrimmar as a flex difficulty easier than the existing normal, intended for pugging and casual guilds (was even split into wings like lfr). With WOD pre-patch they swapped 10/25 heroic into 20 mythic, normal into heroic and flex into normal. Any MOP and older raid can't be compared to current "normal", because any raid back then started with difficulty tuned as current heroic, with later added lfr (in Cata Dragon Soul). LFR wasn't always the same level of difficulty either, for example in MOP it had to be nerfed several times.

Plus I'm pretty sure when "Classic Wotlk" is launched those raids won't last as long as originally. There was a guild back then who cleared 10 man normal Ulduar and ICC in blues (read: heroic dungeon gear), just by executing mechanics. Raids weren't such a gear check back then. Oh yea, also Naxx was cleared by world top guilds with 0 wotlk gear just tbc sunwell gear.

[ryjkur]

History lesson for you: there was no "normal" then.

Wotlk "normal" is current heroic. Wotlk "heroic" is current mythic. Current "normal" was added in MOP Siege of Orgrimmar as a flex difficulty easier than the existing normal, intended for pugging and casual guilds (was even split into wings like lfr). With WOD pre-patch they swapped 10/25 heroic into 20 mythic, normal into heroic and flex into normal. Any MOP and older raid can't be compared to current "normal", because any raid back then started with difficulty tuned as current heroic, with later added lfr (in Cata Dragon Soul). LFR wasn't always the same level of difficulty either, for example in MOP it had to be nerfed several times.

Plus I'm pretty sure when "Classic Wotlk" is launched those raids won't last as long as originally. There was a guild back then who cleared 10 man normal Ulduar and ICC in blues (read: heroic dungeon gear), just by executing mechanics. Raids weren't such a gear check back then. Oh yea, also Naxx was cleared by world top guilds with 0 wotlk gear just tbc sunwell gear.

I dont care what you think but they were called normal back then. Ulduar had normal and hard mode bosses while ICC had normal and heroic mode ID

[Ryzeth]

people know they are bad at game.

thats why they have no problem to stick to lfr/normal .

If you're bad, get better. Loads of guilds have cleared 10/10N already, or come very close. Not even top500 guilds, either. Limit ragequit the 3rd boss and they're supposedly the best... Well multiple guilds have gotten past that, sooo...

[Dakara]

I’d suggest players have gotten used to having better gear at Raid launch. Be it from M+/Heroic from the Tier before or, in the first tier of a new expac, having had another week or so farming dungeons for better optimised gear. Shadowlands gave use less time to gear up than usual.

It’ll get easier, either with more exposure, more gear, or both.

[kamuimac]

Remember when majority of guilds didnt clear Ulduar or ICC on first week even on normal? And those are still considered one of the beast raids.

that normal from that age is what tuday HC is .

why would you on purpose twist facts

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That has never been proven. I love how people like to keep spouting that lie. Nobody quit in cata over heroics. Nobody is quitting over hard raids. Try again.

lol his has been proven beyond any doubt by hard numbers

it was proven in Cata , it was proven in MoP , it was proven the best in WoD when they stopped reporting numbers after they lost 5 mln subs in 3 months - after pulling exackly stunt like this today

i find it laughable how you desperatly try to defend this failed model

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If you're bad, get better. Loads of guilds have cleared 10/10N already, or come very close. Not even top500 guilds, either. Limit ragequit the 3rd boss and they're supposedly the best... Well multiple guilds have gotten past that, sooo...

it has been admited officialy by blizzard in blue post that they have hard data proving that people dont get better - they quit game.

and yet once again they pull WoD 2.0

[ReVnX]

I dont care what you think but they were called normal back then. Ulduar had normal and hard mode bosses while ICC had normal and heroic mode ID

Current normal is the Flex difficulty mode introduced in SoO, which was below normal.

[LordVargK]

If normal is too hard then play lfr I guess? players should not complain that the game is too hard if they try to play a difficulty they are lacking skill for.

[ryjkur]

Why shouldn't normal mode or heroic mode guilds have meaningful progress raiding?

Everyone thinks only mythic guilds deserve the satisfaction of progressing and finally killing the boss and everyone not raiding mythic should clear it on the first day. Not everyone have 20 people roster for mythics.

[Molov]

Most top guilds have 3 boss killed already (the very best are on the 7th) according to WoWProgress and America have had a whole day ahead of EU. Seems like they haven't tried normal.

From streams I've seen, playing with people discovering the raid in the most part while playing in a raiding guild, are getting a few boss kills, around 6 bosses, on the first day. Which is pretty good and doesn't seem overtuned since the majority of the raid never tried the bosses before that.

It's hard to say for now but it wouldn't be that surprising if the average raiding guild manages to clear around 8 bosses the first week, or even get to the final boss. But saying it's overtuned because your average joe can't clear the raid on normal difficulty, the first day within a few hours, all this while discovering boss mechanics each time, is kind of precocious.