Does the time difference matter?

[Yarathir]

This is where we pretend that one region winning for over a decade and being perfectly fucking okay with the terms of the race they're participating in is somehow completely unrelated to that same fucking region suddenly sternly demanding the terms change the very moment they begin to lose. There's absolutely no correlation there, whatsoever. Nope. Just completely reasonable, non-biased people giving completely reasonable, non-biased opinions.

Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to not be fussed with a disadvantage when you're winning and to reconsider when you are losing and might in fact be losing due to that disadvantage.

This is not brain surgery, nor is this some kind of epic 'gotcha'.

[Relapses]

Yeah, it's perfectly reasonable to not be fussed with a disadvantage when you're winning and to reconsider when you are losing and might in fact be losing due to that disadvantage.

This is not brain surgery, nor is this some kind of epic 'gotcha'.

In other words, "it's okay to shit on NA as long as they know EU is better."

[dacoolist]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...?faction=HORDE indicates that Limit killed it 12/23/2020 3:58 PM CST and Echo killed it 12/24/2020 8:21 AM CST .. it's over 16 hours difference - ALSO NA realms were delayed MANY MANY hours, and EU had almost 0 delay. We also had bugs fixed before EU's servers were even up AND insane lag for at least the first 1-2 hours..

My point is, the 16 hours only matters when its on the other side of the fence.. none of us are good enough to be either guild in the first place so for us plebs this means nothing

[quite an expert in wow]

you and your friend can earn 1 million eu/dollars/whatever whoever walks the furthest

you get one hour to do it, your friend gets 15 additional hours to do it

do you think its a fair advantage?

[Dhrizzle]

I'm sure even the American guilds would prefer not to have the time difference. You can't deny it must cheapen the achievement a little bit to get "world's first kill" when another guild was 4 or 5 hours faster.

[Queen of Hamsters]

In other words, "it's okay to shit on NA as long as they know EU is better."

Yeah, pretty much.

If the time gap was a deciding factor, there'd be a number of NA guilds winning prior to Limit. Not to mention, Beta/PTR access and practice. Most of them get access to that.

That being said, if all the GUILDS, not petty fans, came together and agreed that it'd be a better race if it opened globally on the same day, have at it. I'm not so sure Blizzard would care though.

Then again, they could just agree to wait until a certain point. Sportsmanship and all that. Imagine all the juicy drama from guilds breaking it!

[Yarathir]

In other words, "it's okay to shit on NA as long as they know EU is better."

That's.. not shitting on NA.

That's simply not being as bothered with a disadvantage when it doesn't keep you from a victory as you are when it does.

[Kumorii]

It's enough for me to not care much about it. It's nice that it exists since it attracts traffic to the game which is healthy...

But anyone claiming its fair is delusional. Any headstart is a headstart... I don't understand why blizzard aren't trying to fix that considering how much the community cares about the race.

It's weird.

[Yarathir]

It's enough for me to not care much about it. It's nice that it exists since it attracts traffic to the game which is healthy...

But anyone claiming its fair is delusional. Any headstart is a headstart...

This was my point to start with, but everybody who doesn't go "lulw eu lost us won haha cope" is immediately labeled a sore loser and questioning lopsided rules is apparently considered borderline trolling by some posters.

Whatever, really.

[conceptKitty]

It matters.
If EU wins, US is extra bad because they had a headstart and still lost.
If US wins it's because they had a headstart and it's unfair.

[Relapses]

Yeah, pretty much.

If the time gap was a deciding factor, there'd be a number of NA guilds winning prior to Limit. Not to mention, Beta/PTR access and practice. Most of them get access to that.

That being said, if all the GUILDS, not petty fans, came together and agreed that it'd be a better race if it opened globally on the same day, have at it. I'm not so sure Blizzard would care though.

Here's the thing that irks me: There are EU fans who are pretending to be paragons of reasonability by demanding a change to the way the race operates are doing so only now after having lost back-to-back RWFs. These are the same EU fans who in every fucking WF thread that existed in the decade or so that EU was handily winning every race would constantly denigrate the entire NA region and whenever the time issue came up they'd smugly proclaim, "lol like it matters we still beat u even with ur training wheels on!" (Don't believe me? Go look up the RWF threads in Legion when the RWF was pretty much exclusively between EU guilds.) EU fans want their cake and to eat it, too. They say they want a "fair race," but they also don't want to acknowledge that they were a bunch of smug dickbags about the very issue they now consider priority numero uno when it was brought up in the past. And that smugness is a big contributor for why nothing ever changed. It reeks of survivor bias.

[Kumorii]

This was my point to start with, but everybody who doesn't go "lulw eu lost us won haha cope" is immediately labeled a sore loser and questioning lopsided rules is apparently considered borderline trolling by some posters.

Whatever, really.

It's even more weird because the headstart is brought up every single race regardless if EU wins... Its not like people are pointing out the unfairness now for the first time. Even I who don't follow the race as much knows about this drama every single race...

[Yarathir]

It's even more weird because the headstart is brought up every single race regardless if EU wins... Its not like people are pointing out the unfairness now for the first time. Even I who don't follow the race as much knows about this drama every single race...

- - - Updated - - -



Not sure how that is having the cake and eating it... Gloating about winning with unfair conditions stacked against you is still pointing out the unfairness. It's not "it's fair if EU win but not fair US wins"...

Honestly, though. If Echo and other EU guilds (maybe even Chinese guilds) don't push for anything, nothing is likely to happen. It's all on them. Unless Blizzard decides to step in, idk.

That said, this time, Limit won fair and square, even taking any potential headstart into account. I acknowledge that Echo may have effectively stopped pushing after Limit downed Denathrius, but that would be a forfeit from them in that case.

[Amaterasu65]

Right. Sure.


Poor Echo...

is that wahbulance here yet?

OK to be serious for a sec:

Starting at the same time will be hard. Early AM Pacific time is mid-day Eastern time and roughly 5-6PM EU (depending on the precise timezone). And that ignores China.

You could do 'fastest after release' but that's changing the definition of world first.

I personally don't care about the stupid EU vs NA fanboy wars on the internet.

It's hard to make a time that will fit the 3 main continents. I doubt Blizzard wants to deal with an issue like this. The race wasn't a thing they created after all. That said, they do promote it the last few years because the race attracts viewers on Twitch etc. It's just business right now.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Here's the thing that irks me: There are EU fans who pretending to be paragons of reasonability by demanding a change to the way the race operates only now after having lost back-to-back RWFs. These are the same EU fans who in every fucking WF thread that existed in the decade or so that EU was handily winning every race would constantly denigrate the entire NA region and whenever the time issue came up they'd smugly proclaim, "lol like it matters we still beat u even with ur training wheels on!" (Don't believe me? Go look up the RWF threads in Legion when the RWF was pretty much exclusively between EU guilds.) EU fans want their cake and to eat it, too. They say they want a "fair race," but they also don't want to acknowledge that they were a bunch of smug dickbags about the very issue they now consider priority numero uno when it was brought up in the past. And that smugness is a big contributor for why nothing ever changed. It reeks of survivor bias.

Tbf, the fans are always the worst when it comes to any sport where there are teams competing. I don't think that anyone with even a tiny bit of insight would be able to say that Limit won because they had a "headstart". They won due to outplaying the other guilds. I would not expect that to change even if they did skip the 16 hours and started the same hour as the rest. Which, mind you, would still mean major differences such as daytime/morning/evening/nighttime. Yet another way for the sore losers to call the whaambulance.

If an EU guild should win the next race, I'm sure the same people whinging now, will be back to the anti-NA smugness quicker than we could spell "double standards".

The first kill is what counts and what will continue to count. I can't believe I'm seeing people wanting to change that, but here we are.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Not sure how that is having the cake and eating it... Gloating about winning with unfair conditions stacked against you is still pointing out the unfairness. It's not "it's fair if EU win but not fair US wins"...

I guess where the hole in that logic is that the people that actually are in the race don't seem to worry about it to much. It is only people that have some hard on for "continental pride" caught up in over it. That is why it is silly.

[Yarathir]

I personally don't care about the stupid EU vs NA fanboy wars on the internet.

It's hard to make a time that will fit the 3 main continents. I doubt Blizzard wants to deal with an issue like this. The race wasn't a thing they created after all. That said, they do promote it the last few years because the race attracts viewers on Twitch etc. It's just business right now.

The race is in a tough spot where it's neither amateur (come on, the world first contenders take it way too seriously in many cases for it to be "just for fun") nor officially accommodated.
I think that Blizzard and the guilds should pick a position, either or and not languish in the middle.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess where the hole in that logic is that the people that actually are in the race don't seem to worry about it to much. It is only people that have some hard on for "continental pride" caught up in over it. That is why it is silly.

It only irked me in the first place because if we're talking out of sheer principles, it is a majorly lopsided situation.

And when I started giving my opinion on that, that was also around the time people started implying that mentioning that one side had a headstart should be considered "trolling." Mentioning an observable and objective disadvantage is trolling-- what??

[Low Hanging Fruit]

The race is in a tough spot where it's neither amateur (come on, the world first contenders take it way too seriously in many cases for it to be "just for fun") nor officially accommodated.
I think that Blizzard and the guilds should pick a position, either or and not languish in the middle.

The only real way it will ever be a fair thing is if they move it to a competition realm and fly them out to a place where things like BOE imbalance (one group might get 20 another 15), lag and computers are all the same, if the power goes out or the place gets DDOSed they all eat it, everyone wakes up at the sametime, everyone starts at the same time, everyone stops at the same time, and all kinds of other things I probably am not thinking of.

Just won't be happening. Just got to deal with it.. this is just a thing where people play on the internet and just chase who can kill it first. First one falls over they win.

[Jastall]

Timezones will ensure there's never any sort of 100% fairness, and I doubt Blizzard is going to delays Mythic's release for the sake of literally 2 guilds, no matter how well publicized they are. They said multiple times they acknowledge but do not promote the race.

Besides, if we really want it to be totally fair, it means both US and EU would have to wait for the Asian release as well. They matter as well. Doubt the non-Limit Mythic guilds in North America want to wait two days for the raid to unlock.

[Yarathir]

The only real way it will ever be a fair thing is if they move it to a competition realm and fly them out to a place where things like BOE imbalance (one group might get 20 another 15), lag and computers are all the same, if the power goes out or the place gets DDOSed they all eat it, everyone wakes up at the sametime, everyone starts at the same time, everyone stops at the same time, and all kinds of other things I probably am not thinking of.

Same idea I had and something they will have to do if they want the competition to be a big, serious thing. But it would require Blizzard to step in and acknowledge it in an official capacity.

Just won't be happening. Just got to deal with it.. this is just a thing where people play on the internet and just chase who can kill it first. First one falls over they win.

I dunno, Blizzard is quite into esports. I'm surprised they haven't done it yet. If they were considering it, though, I feel like the Method drama might have pushed it back.