Who went into the Maw, the proper way?

[Chat]

It just occured to me, are Val'kyr actually Kyrian? Both the theme and the name fit them.

I'm going to assume that Val'kyrs were shaped after the Kyrian when Odyn peered into the Shadowlands. As from what I understand hes the one that created them. He then used them to Ferry his own souls to his Temple instead of letting them be wisked away into the Shadowlands. Kind of Like Helya and her own realm and Bwomsamdi with his.

[huth]

I'm going to assume that Val'kyrs were shaped after the Kyrian when Odyn peered into the Shadowlands. As from what I understand hes the one that created them. He then used them to Ferry his own souls to his Temple instead of letting them be wisked away into the Shadowlands. Kind of Like Helya and her own realm and Bwomsamdi with his.

Identical to Helya, as she is the first Val'kyr Odyn created.

[Niwes]

- Elisande
- Guldan
- Kiljaeden
- That fat bitch from BfA
- and so on

i assume every bad boy villain we encountered since Ursoc in Legion. and since everyone goes straight to the maw, you can just say:

„everyone that died since around the death of Ursoc in Legion“

or not ?

idk...

[huth]

- Elisande
- Guldan
- Kiljaeden
- That fat bitch from BfA
- and so on

i assume every bad boy villain we encountered since Ursoc in Legion. and since everyone goes straight to the maw, you can just say:

„everyone that died since around the death of Ursoc in Legion“

or not ?

idk...

Read the OP again. It's specificially about those that went there before the Arbiter got disabled.

[ashblond]

We know that Arthas is in Maw.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Xavius would be one of my first guesses. Serving an old God is a good way to start.

[Roship]

Xavius would be one of my first guesses. Serving an old God is a good way to start.

He is a demon, he would go to the Nether.

[Powerogue]

MU and AU Gul'dan, being attended to by a very confused Jailer. I'm still counting on that happening at some point this expansion.

[Niwes]

Read the OP again. It's specificially about those that went there before the Arbiter got disabled.

oh. you are totally right! i am blind. sorry for that and thx for the clarification !!!

[mysticx]

He says it himself before you fight him in De Other Side, alongside boasting that he brought Helya over the Jailer's team which makes some sense as he might have learned of her from Odyn either directly or indirectly.

Ah, must have missed that bit the one time i was there, trying not to mess up the tactics and all...

[FuxieDK]

None of them did anything that was, frankly, bad enough to be sent into the Maw.

Well, that was apparat If it was, they would have been there. But what is then?

Are we talking Archimonde/Kil'jaeden level nastyness? Or Sargeras?

[MikeBogina]

Meatball kinda dies before, but he's also still alive in BFA and yet he's in the Maw. Not sure if he was one of Sylvanas' targets or if whoever put him there, went based on him exploding in the fighter's guild, not knowing he's still alive xD

The barometer for Revendreth has been set too high for anyone to qualify directly for the Maw given people who've tried to destroy reality on behalf of demons/old gods, personally disemboweled thousands for science and ate planets don't get a straight ticket there.

Since we know that basically no that no matter how evil you were, you still go to Revendreth instead of the Maw, it makes me wonder what the other end of the qualifications are. Like who maybe shouldn't be in Revendreth, but is there because we were enemies.

For instance, I just learned that Zul'jin is in Revendreth and besides him being a troll which makes that really confusing, I never viewed this guy as "evil", not like I viewed Vashj who was sent to Maldraxxus :/

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- Elisande
- Guldan
- Kiljaeden
- That fat bitch from BfA
- and so on

Elisande kinda redeems herself after she loses, and would probably go to Revendreth, or maybe even less punishing, since she did what she did because she thought it was the only way to save her people, not really evil.
Gul'dan's soul could have been turned full demon by the end of his fight in Nightwell, or Illidan could have dusted his soul. MU could have been consumed by demons.
Kil's a demon and if his soul wasn't saved by ARgus, he mgiht be perma dead.
Fat lady def in the maw, maybe we'll see her and Helya chillin together

[Wysmark]

Plenty of torture/executioner type bosses that could have gone to the Maw. Those kill-for-sake-of-killing. Neither Karl or Garrosh really fits there. Most villains believed they served a higher purpose, hence Revendreth to learn humility

Id personally like a few more innocent references.

For example remember That “Time for fun” Ogre boss in Shadow Labyrinth during TBC? Wouldnt he make a wonderful faerie in the afterlife? Just a chat boble like “Can you imagine? In life I was a Big ogre tee-hee”

[masterjc]

We know that Ursoc was one of the last (named NPCs) to be judged by the Arbiter, and soon after that, every dead soul went directly to the Maw.
Therefore, let's keep all talk to a time line, no later than Emerald Nightmare raid.

Who went to the Maw? Not an answer like "the truly vile", but actual names? People we know from lore.
All the bosses/rares we fight in the Maw are new names, we have no connection to, lorewise, but there must be some we know?

Both Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad and Lady Vashj avoided going to the Maw; they would have been good candidates for the Maw in my eyes.

MU Garrosh Hellscream

I think he is a good candidate
yes, he redeemed himself, but after cursing his own people SECOND time, and this time, willingly

or maybe he would go to Revendreth at least

tbh I don't get how person like Kel'Thuzard has a chance of redemption, but if we assume that his Phylactery is somewhere there, he mightnot be "dead" dead yet

[Super Dickmann]

Since we know that basically no that no matter how evil you were, you still go to Revendreth instead of the Maw, it makes me wonder what the other end of the qualifications are. Like who maybe shouldn't be in Revendreth, but is there because we were enemies.

For instance, I just learned that Zul'jin is in Revendreth and besides him being a troll which makes that really confusing, I never viewed this guy as "evil", not like I viewed Vashj who was sent to Maldraxxus :/

The Amani didn't worship Bwon so I can sort of see why he didn't go to the Other Side, but I still think he'd fit a lot better in Maldraxxus than Revendreth. I don't think we ever saw him do anything especially objectionable except wage war on his enemies and even if you say that he was motivated by spite for the elves instead of love for his people, itself dubious, the whole "never give up, never die" thing is pitch perfect Maldraxxus.

Then again I guess it wouldn't be true to Zul'jin if, after he was shafted by a redneck meme character in a side raid he ended up getting dicked one more time beyond the grave. The writers really hate Zul'jin for some reason.

[Magical Mudcrab]

tbh I don't get how person like Kel'Thuzard has a chance of redemption, but if we assume that his Phylactery is somewhere there, he mightnot be "dead" dead yet

It's because Kel'thuzad was never evil in the same way that the majority of villains in Warcraft are evil. Within the Road to Damnation story, he is given the ultimatum to serve Ner'zhul willingly or as a slave trapped in his own body (note: prior to this offer, Kel'thuzad was introduced to Anub'arak, who retained his full mental faculties and, if memory serves, showed some disdain towards Ner'zhul while being forced to serve him). He was additionally shown, prior to being given the offer, what could potentially become of him should he refuse. In this way, there are major mitigating circumstances when judging his character and what his final judgement would be.

“The master wishes you to remain among the living. Your time has not yet come.”

His breath caught in his throat. “It would have killed me?”

“There are many who will not serve the master in life. The fluid resolves that difficulty.” At Kel’Thuzad’s blank look, the crypt lord said, “Come. I will show you.”

Anub’arak took him to a cell that held two prisoners. Villagers, by their homespun clothing. The man was cradling the woman in his arms; she was ghastly pale and soaked in sweat. Alive, both of them, though the woman was clearly ill. Kel’Thuzad glanced at the crypt lord uneasily.

Her desperate glassy eyes found Kel’Thuzad and brightened. “Mercy, my lord! My body fails. I have seen what will happen next. One bolt of flame, I beg of you. Let me rest in peace.”

She was afraid of becoming the necromancer’s thrall. According to Anub’arak, she would have no choice. Kel’Thuzad looked away queasily. After all, she couldn’t live much longer anyway.

She struggled out of the man’s arms and clung to the cell bars. “For pity’s sake! If you will not aid me, at least take my husband to safety!” And she wept hopelessly.

“Hush, sweetheart,” the man murmured behind her. “I will not leave you.”

“Make her be quiet!” Kel’Thuzad whispered fiercely at Anub’arak.

“The noise distresses you?” With one lightning-quick motion, Anub’arak shot one claw through the bars and speared the woman through the heart. Then the crypt lord casually shook the corpse off onto the floor.

Her husband howled with anguish. Guiltily relieved, Kel’Thuzad began to turn away, but froze when the corpse started thrashing and arching against the stone floor. The male villager gaped in shock and fell silent.

The dead woman’s skin was changing color: shifting to a faintly greenish gray. Gradually the spasms died off, and she scrambled unsteadily to her feet. She rolled her head to one side, then shivered as she spotted her husband. “Guards, get this man out of here.” she rasped.

The guards didn’t move. With a groan, she raked her fingers through her tangled brown hair, and Kel’Thuzad got a good look at her face. Blood vessels were darkening under the skin, and her eyes seemed feral, crazed.

Stay back.” Her speech was becoming more guttural. “Hurt you.” She wrapped her arms around herself, backed up until she bumped against the opposite side of the cell. “Hurt you, hurt you,” she whined, and something began to be wrong with the way she said it.

Uncomprehending, Kel’Thuzad watched her slowly, jerkily lift a hand to the hole in her chest. She hissed, grimaced, and brought her fingers to her mouth. Licked them. Sucked at them. Then in a blur of movement, she was leaping at her husband, lashing out, baring her teeth--

The man screamed, and blood spurted onto the cell floor. Kel’Thuzad flinched away. Closing his eyes didn’t help; he could still hear unspeakable sounds. Ripping, shredding. Chewing. A soft, wretched mewling that he very much feared meant the undead woman was aware of her actions on some level, but unable to stop herself.

...

As my lieutenant, you will gain knowledge and magic to surpass your most ambitious dreams. But in return, living or dead, you will serve me for the rest of your days. If you betray me, I shall make you into one of my mindless ones, and you will serve me still.

Serving this spectral being--this Lich King, as Kel’Thuzad was beginning to think of him--would assuredly bring Kel’Thuzad great power… and damn him for all eternity. But that knowledge came far too late. Besides, damnation had little meaning without the prospect of true death.

- Road to Damnation

[Niwes]

Meatball kinda dies before, but he's also still alive in BFA and yet he's in the Maw. Not sure if he was one of Sylvanas' targets or if whoever put him there, went based on him exploding in the fighter's guild, not knowing he's still alive xD


Since we know that basically no that no matter how evil you were, you still go to Revendreth instead of the Maw, it makes me wonder what the other end of the qualifications are. Like who maybe shouldn't be in Revendreth, but is there because we were enemies.

For instance, I just learned that Zul'jin is in Revendreth and besides him being a troll which makes that really confusing, I never viewed this guy as "evil", not like I viewed Vashj who was sent to Maldraxxus :/

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Elisande kinda redeems herself after she loses, and would probably go to Revendreth, or maybe even less punishing, since she did what she did because she thought it was the only way to save her people, not really evil.
Gul'dan's soul could have been turned full demon by the end of his fight in Nightwell, or Illidan could have dusted his soul. MU could have been consumed by demons.
Kil's a demon and if his soul wasn't saved by ARgus, he mgiht be perma dead.
Fat lady def in the maw, maybe we'll see her and Helya chillin together

i am not sure who is missleading shadowlands here. me or you. but shadowlands not seems to be a azeroth only thing. so i do not get the Kiljaeden statement here. also i do not understand „perma dead“. everything that is dead, as i understand it, arrives in the shadowlands. maybe i confuse Blizzards special story stuff here.

[huth]

Well, that was apparat If it was, they would have been there. But what is then?

Are we talking Archimonde/Kil'jaeden level nastyness? Or Sargeras?

I think there's only two things that would get you shoved in the Maw by the Arbiter: Either clearly being incapable of redemption, or innately being a threat to the Shadowlands. As long as there is an infinitesimal chance of redemption, off to Revendreth. Only beings that are by their very nature a threat get no out, and those probably mostly get sorted out by the Watchers already. I mean, why even send them there in the first place when the last thing you want is having them in the Shadowlands.

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i am not sure who is missleading shadowlands here. me or you. but shadowlands not seems to be a azeroth only thing. so i do not get the Kiljaeden statement here. also i do not understand „perma dead“. everything that is dead, as i understand it, arrives in the shadowlands. maybe i confuse Blizzards special story stuff here.

No, only mortals go to the Shadowlands, and only if another power doesn't claim them first. Any being aligned with a cosmic power goes to their home plane or simply ceases to exist if killed there (aka permadeath).

[tommyhil622]

So far in the current lore, seems like the maw only had the jailer as the sole legal inhabitant. The others after him have arrived because of the arbiter being inactive or other machinations like Denathrius.

[svetlio]

We know that Arthas is in Maw.

yep some low dungeon livel boss send him there,so d kirian can bocome forsworn or whatever.I was tryly dispoinded that blizard used him as a fodder like that.But w8 we all know that he is actualy d jailer and d chained dude is d one that was rulling d maw before arthas went there