Burnt Totem from Torghast - Thrall a Shaman again?

[Omians]

When you rescue him, hes stuck in chains being held up by some mawsworn and he begs the elements to give him strength you see electricity running down the chains to the mawsworn killing them

[Razaron]

It's been pretty heavily implied since Legion that Thrall's inability to call on the elements was self-inflicted, subconscious guilt about cheating in the mak'gora with Garrosh.

A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is a precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts.

https://youtu.be/ULaFQwfEy2g

[Thage]

https://youtu.be/ULaFQwfEy2g

Yeah, yeah, we know he didn't actually cheat, but from his POV, if memory serves, he does think he cheated, hence my phrasing.

[Kalontas]

That doesn't mean they will answer to him. Shaman have a pact of sorts with the elements. We aren't exactly in the land of the living with an elemental plane. Who knows if and who he would call to, not to mention the elements of our plane of existence have already stopped answering him.

No, you said there are no elements in the Maw. (Well, you used the word "shouldn't", but discussing what ought to be in a fantasy setting is a bit pointless) I said there are. Everything else is speculation.

[cparle87]

Thrall didn’t cheat any Mak’gora, plenty of evidence to suggest magic is allowed in Mak’gora including their first one pre-wotlk. It also explains in the Doomhammer artefact book why he lost his connection to the elements.

Shh. Don't let things like logic and lore get in their way. Guys like Zyky just want to go "wah he cheated" while at the same time claiming it's a plot hole.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

It's not that he gave up doomhammer or anything. He cheated in the makgora against Garrosh. He effectively executed him with the elements in a fight that was supposed to be physical only...no magic. He felt such regret/remorse at cheating that he basically felt he was no longer worthy of harnessing the elements. Whether this is a internal or external thing had not been fully explained.

It's been pretty heavily implied since Legion that Thrall's inability to call on the elements was self-inflicted, subconscious guilt about cheating in the mak'gora with Garrosh. One would assume, with his spirituality being such a major facet of who he was for so long, he would continue to carry his totems and pay homage to the spirits in the hopes of one day 'earning their forgiveness' (read: forgiving himself). Doubt has been a big facet of his post-Legion characterization as he's had to witness the fallout of his shortcomings made manifest in the Horde's slips into cruelty and the needlessly-hard living conditions in Orgrimmar made worse.

Where do you people get this idea it has anything to do with "cheating"? It was about them being used as a tool for vengeance.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Words_of_W...rth#Doomhammer

Through the years, Thrall wielded the Doomhammer with honor and integrity. However, following his execution of the malign warchief Garrosh Hellscream, Thrall felt conflicted. This internal struggle was reflected in the Doomhammer as well. In Thrall's mind, the weapon that had embodied the ideals of justice and virtue had now come to represent vengeance.

I firmly believe he'll get Doomhammer back at some point in the future.

[Deneios]

Doomhammer is just a hammer. Its a conduit of power not a source. It is a legendary hammer but it has no power of its own.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Doomhammer is just a hammer. Its a conduit of power not a source. It is a legendary hammer but it has no power of its own.

Not true.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Words_of_Wind_and_Earth

Pledging his body and spirit to the elements, he submerged himself in a pool of lava and was miraculously unharmed.

According to legend, the head of the Doomhammer was coaxed forth from the heart of Draenor itself. When Gelnar later crafted an oaken handle, the forming of the Doomhammer was complete. From that day forward, both the weapon and the name Doomhammer would be passed down from father to eldest son.

Gelnar raised the Doomhammer to the sky, and it spoke-it spoke in fire and lightning. Thunder rolled through the blackened clouds above, shaking the very ground beneath our feet. Draenor boomed with all its fury.

Rain anointed us with the elements' blessing, and as Gelnar rushed toward the enemy, I knew that somehow our clan would survive.

FWI, Gelnar was not a Shaman

Orgrim Doomhammer took the weapon to the lava pool where it had been created. There, he attempted to negate the prophecy associated with it, while retaining the hammer's power.

Long ago, before Orgrim passed the Doomhammer to Thrall, he confided that although the weapon had once brought him closer to the elements, over time it had become a dead weight in his hands.

How would Orgrim, not a Shaman, have been able to channel the elements and then feel it's dead weight like Thrall did?

[StillMcfuu]

No, you said there are no elements in the Maw. (Well, you used the word "shouldn't", but discussing what ought to be in a fantasy setting is a bit pointless) I said there are. Everything else is speculation.

No, I said "there are no elements for him to call upon". As in, he can not control these elements because he doesn't know them. Same issue he had on AU Dreanor.

This is basic shaman lore, they aren't mages doing willy-nilly with arcane because its just there. Shamans borrow power from the elements and use the primal natural forms of them. If mages are essentially throwing rocks, shaman are calling in artillery. Except in Thrall's case, he doesn't know who to call.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

No, I said "there are no elements for him to call upon". As in, he can not control these elements because he doesn't know them. Same issue he had on AU Dreanor.

Where was this issue stated though? He uses the elements during the Tanaan Jungle experience.

[kranur]

It's not that he gave up doomhammer or anything. He cheated in the makgora against Garrosh. He effectively executed him with the elements in a fight that was supposed to be physical only...no magic. He felt such regret/remorse at cheating that he basically felt he was no longer worthy of harnessing the elements. Whether this is a internal or external thing had not been fully explained.

Mak'gora is not physical only. Magic is not forbidden and the participants can even choose their own rules.

[Irian]

He's been a shaman. He was never a warrior.

Main characters don't really follow class archetypes, they exist for gameplay purposes. Anduin's an armored priest, Thrall is a shaman with the strength to be a warrior, etc. It was just a random MMO-C theory.

[Arithan]

Thrall was a warrior prodigy and gladiator until after he escaped Durnholde and met Orgrim who directed him to the Frostwolves. Since then he's been both, he didn't stop using the Doomhammer or forget his skills.

[StillMcfuu]

Where was this issue stated though? He uses the elements during the Tanaan Jungle experience.

He has issues summoning his full strength in Tanaan. Then when you get to Frostwall(is that the zone name?) He has issues again with the nearby enemies. I believe he remarks when he goes to the frostwolf village that he doesn't understand the elementals of dreanor (they were trying to speak to him, but he didn't understand). And again when you fight for that fortress, he tries to summon the wind and some point and he was essentially done and could only do a little. I think there is a point where he says he could have easily brought down the canyon at the end of the zone quest but can't summon that kind of power here. He gets help in another zone to actually learn to commune with au dreanor elements.

He could brute force certain things but it cost him a lot of effort. This is also full strength Thrall here.

- - - Updated - - -

He's been a shaman. He was never a warrior.

Main characters don't really follow class archetypes, they exist for gameplay purposes. Anduin's an armored priest, Thrall is a shaman with the strength to be a warrior, etc. It was just a random MMO-C theory.

He started as a warrior, trained by humans for the ring. He didn't become a shaman until much later in his life.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Has the torture in the maw forced him to reflect and now he is the Avatar, master of all 4 elements again?

He was always a Shaman. His initial relinquishing of the Doomhammer, and belief that the Elements were not speaking to him anymore, was due to his own accumulating guilt over what he did to Garrosh (i.e.: he was blinded by guilt).

[shoc]

Doomhammer definitely has a special connection to the elements. Specifically Draenor's Fire Elementals. Thrall is definitely a Shaman, he's a plate wearing Enhance Shaman who is sometimes OOM depending on how depressed he seems to be.

[Feanoro]

the weapon that had embodied the ideals of justice and virtue had now come to represent vengeance

Justice and virtue? I mean, I know Thrall was under some SERIOUS delusions about the Old Horde, but that's just absurd.

[slime]

This is just a sneak peek at next Expansions main feature: class switching.

[A Chozo]

I guess the elements are helping him escape the Maw. Maybe they still see potential in him, and there's no way for him to learn from his mistakes if he's being tortured in Torghast.

[Mardux]

It's not that he gave up doomhammer or anything. He cheated in the makgora against Garrosh. He effectively executed him with the elements in a fight that was supposed to be physical only...no magic. He felt such regret/remorse at cheating that he basically felt he was no longer worthy of harnessing the elements. Whether this is a internal or external thing had not been fully explained.

Why are people still pushing this headcanon?