Shadowlands: Rapidly Climbing the Ladder in Popularity

[Masternap]

See, this and the thing you quoted by Toybox, "There's a lot of content, it's just that none of it is required for player power," strike me as spin.

I realize I'm in the minority, but I'm pretty much done with everything but M+, Raiding and PvP. I actually got done so quickly that I've started doing the new achievements two weeks ago... which I'm also done with (as far as possible anyways).

There's just no content left for me to do. Nothing. I did play a lot, but I actually didn't feel like there's much more than there was in other expansions, including the optional stuff. I log in on Wednesday, complete the weekly covenant stuff, do one M+, clear the two Torghast wings, and that's it. After that there's nothing left but the calling quest and the dailies for Grateful Offerings.

I have no idea where all this optional content is supposed to be. As far as I see it the game needs new content as soon as possible, because 9.0 is pretty much over.

[Yuli]

See, this and the thing you quoted by Toybox, "There's a lot of content, it's just that none of it is required for player power," strike me as spin.

This expansion is fundamentally identical to the previous expansion. None of those things were "required" in BfA, or Legion, beyond the way that they are now - to do raids, you need gear from dungeons and/or PvP. To be best at raids, you'll want to spam mythics and heroics to fill any bad slots until raids give you better gear for those slots. Mythic rewards may have been a little better in the last expansion, but not so much so that any serious raid leader would say "it's cool if you guys just come in blues because the gear in mythics isn't the absolute best." Reputations were not "required" in (launch) BfA/Legion; you may have wanted the rewards, but there were plenty of other places to get equivalents.

Meanwhile, even raiders still have to tick these boxes at least for the next few weeks: you have to cap your soul ash in Torghast, you have to do the quests necessary to hit the Renown cap, you have to do the farming/crafting required to get the next 'base item' for your legendary, and if you're not already geared, we're still in that "do all the mythics" phase. These are mandatory for whatever "player power" is, because the game does not generate gear out of the nether. And make no mistake, just like every other expansion, Blizzard will put in grinds to replace those as soon as you've finished them - BfA didn't launch with the grinds it ended with, nor did Legion, nor did Warlords, or really any other expansion.

Compared to launch BfA, it really seems like there are more boxes to tick, and they're fundamentally less rewarding in and of themselves; Renown and soul ash are long-term grinds with few if any short-term rewards. Which isn't to say it's the worst, because I'm literally doing them right now, and I wouldn't be if I totally hated it. But to say anything has changed seems like a marketing byline. This expansion is largely identical to the last, and if anything has changed, it's mostly only in the set dressing.

You are really really ignorant to all the launch problems of BfA. You pretty much had to grind everything available in the game at launch to be on the curve for Uldir and the first Mythic+ season.

Player Power Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Torghast (1-2 hour per week depending on your skill)
- Renown

Player Power Reward Mechanics in BfA:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Island Expeditions
- Warfronts
- Emissaries
- Reputations (meaning WQ Grind)

It gets even better when you look at the other things to do. I have so much fun stuff to do rn, that I don't want BfA or WoD back at any time. But it's optional! I can use my time for other games, stuff or real life, while BfA burned through so many people because of that grind.

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands, that don't reward Player Power:
- Maw/Twisting Corridors
- Anima
- Covenant Sanctum
- Sanctum Ability
- Reputations
- Pet Battles
- Callings

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in BfA, that don't reward Player Power:
- Pet Battles

People like you either didn't play at BfA launch while wanting to raid asap or try to twist facts because they want to make the game look bad. As with Artifact Power in Legion, Azerite was a real problem and the reason systems like that are gone for now.

[kaminaris]

You are really really ignorant to all the launch problems of BfA. You pretty much had to grind everything available in the game at launch to be on the curve for Uldir and the first Mythic+ season.

snip.

Eh no. You didn't have to grind everything in game at lauch, I was fine with just emissaries and couple islands.

Initial gear set from M+ came preeeeeetty fast.

[Niwes]

There were like 3-4 factions available at a given time, with 3-4 dailies in their hubs.
I never even farmed AP via WQs or Islands, but I did the same quests like 200 times, the dailies in MoP were just a minor nuisance compared to bfa/legion.

sad, but VERY true.

same here. since Legion i realized, that Blizz realized, HOW cheap quests (in any form) as content are.

brave new world...

[topitopi]

I can only speak for myself, but so far, this expansion is on par to be my new favorite. It has already knocked TBC out of 2nd place and is heavily breathing down the neck of WotLK for first. I came into this game Jan 19, 2006, and after Cataclysm, have just not been impressed with the DLCs that followed. Granted, that is just my personal, subjective opinion. I am speaking for no one but myself, nor am I claiming my opinion to be imperical data on the state of the other DLCs.

Is anyone else either seeing Shadowlands move into their number one spot, or at least rapidly climbing the ranks? I know we still have a ways to go in this expac, but if 9.1 and 9.2 are anything like the launch, I have no doubt this expac will apologize for the last 4 in my book and become the new number one on my list.

Let's assume you are serious, happy you enjoy it so much. So far not even close to cracking my top 3, the new end-game is just too time-gate heavy and boringly repetitive for my taste

[LordTakeo]

we should reserve judgment on the all-time list. but, we can absolutely compare point-to-point with the other two "modern" wow expansions, bfa and legion.

I'm having as much fun as I was after a month of legion, and infinitely more than i did after a month of bfa. bfa was bad the instant it launched. this has been extremely good.

And this time, theres no rng in my legendaries!

Also, we got PvP Vendors, spammable M+, raids, sorrowbane, and legendary slots + the guranteed vault weekly, that lets you choose your stuff now.

Gearing has slowed down with no spammable visions that your friends can carry you through, nor afk warfronts for hc loot, but hey.

Atleast you don't have to throw loot away every 10 minutes of playtime, or get belts 3 weeks in a row from the chest.

[Kel_Sceptic]

You are really really ignorant to all the launch problems of BfA. You pretty much had to grind everything available in the game at launch to be on the curve for Uldir and the first Mythic+ season.

Player Power Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Torghast (1-2 hour per week depending on your skill)
- Renown

Player Power Reward Mechanics in BfA:
- Raids
- Dungeons
- PvP
- Island Expeditions
- Warfronts
- Emissaries
- Reputations (meaning WQ Grind)

It gets even better when you look at the other things to do. I have so much fun stuff to do rn, that I don't want BfA or WoD back at any time. But it's optional! I can use my time for other games, stuff or real life, while BfA burned through so many people because of that grind.

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in Shadowlands, that don't reward Player Power:
- Maw/Twisting Corridors
- Anima
- Covenant Sanctum
- Sanctum Ability
- Reputations
- Pet Battles
- Callings

Cosmetic Reward Mechanics in BfA, that don't reward Player Power:
- Pet Battles

People like you either didn't play at BfA launch while wanting to raid asap or try to twist facts because they want to make the game look bad. As with Artifact Power in Legion, Azerite was a real problem and the reason systems like that are gone for now.

As a PvP player BFA and Legion asked me to do sh17 load of PvE content to be relevant in PvP.
Today, in Shadowlands, I am ilvl 194 fully PvP gear and I did only 4 normal dungeons since the start of this expansions. Didn't do any heroic, any mythic, didn't step foot in raid (LFR or any other).

Bfa was a infinite grindfest, and on top of that it had many issues with the azerite gear that was fk in 8.0, with the azerite gear that was LOCKED and you had to GRIND the hell out of Azerite Power to unlock it since it had wrongly unlocked levels.

There are so many bad things that happend during BFA that it made me quit WoW for the first time in 15 years of playing. Just because the time involved in actually playing what I want was almost equal or even less then the time I needed to do choores to be relevant in PvP.

Again, I'm the kind of guy that dettaches and tries to think objectivly, but as a PvP player, BFA was hell and worse then The Maw


All weekly stuff in Shadowlands need 4 hours, the rest of the time in the week is your playtime of WHAT YOU WANT TO PLAY ONLY.


Maybe for most that joined during Legion or even worse, BFA, they are strucked by NOT HAVING TO DO so many choores, and they miss beeing put on the treadmill, like *mices, or are struck by the way loot works now, or maybe there should really be some improvements made in the loot design of Shadowlands, but apart from that, I mean ... man what a wonderful feeling to log in and play if you wanna play what you wanna play, or just log out and play other games or do other stuff.

[chronia]

See, this and the thing you quoted by Toybox, "There's a lot of content, it's just that none of it is required for player power," strike me as spin.

This expansion is fundamentally identical to the previous expansion. None of those things were "required" in BfA, or Legion, beyond the way that they are now - to do raids, you need gear from dungeons and/or PvP. To be best at raids, you'll want to spam mythics and heroics to fill any bad slots until raids give you better gear for those slots. Mythic rewards may have been a little better in the last expansion, but not so much so that any serious raid leader would say "it's cool if you guys just come in blues because the gear in mythics isn't the absolute best." Reputations were not "required" in (launch) BfA/Legion; you may have wanted the rewards, but there were plenty of other places to get equivalents.

Meanwhile, even raiders still have to tick these boxes at least for the next few weeks: you have to cap your soul ash in Torghast, you have to do the quests necessary to hit the Renown cap, you have to do the farming/crafting required to get the next 'base item' for your legendary, and if you're not already geared, we're still in that "do all the mythics" phase. These are mandatory for whatever "player power" is, because the game does not generate gear out of the nether. And make no mistake, just like every other expansion, Blizzard will put in grinds to replace those as soon as you've finished them - BfA didn't launch with the grinds it ended with, nor did Legion, nor did Warlords, or really any other expansion.

Compared to launch BfA, it really seems like there are more boxes to tick, and they're fundamentally less rewarding in and of themselves; Renown and soul ash are long-term grinds with few if any short-term rewards. Which isn't to say it's the worst, because I'm literally doing them right now, and I wouldn't be if I totally hated it. But to say anything has changed seems like a marketing byline. This expansion is largely identical to the last, and if anything has changed, it's mostly only in the set dressing.

The biggest change i'm seeing is the time investment needed not to "lag behind", in BFA you "needed" to do pretty much all WQ's certain rep levels with certain factions (think the 15 ilvl steps with CoA for example), do all the daily jobs and then do islands untill your eyes bleed.

Needed between quotes since basicly you never needed to do all that stuff unless your in a top 20ish guild.

But SL is a lot lighter on the box ticks imho, The weekly souls / anima / covenant campaign for renown takes a few hours a week and thats basicly it with the stuff you "need" to do, to advance. Sure theres torghast, but as soon as you have the legendary (or legendaries) you want its basicly optional content for the collector. The maw you can mix max for (i think) 6 sockets, but with the lower socket value its feels a lot less mandatory than 8.3 sockets.

And after the renown stuff i can focus on stuff i want to do, not stuff i need to do. I can do some M+ with friends, can work on my cosmetic rewards, can go out and collect rares / treasures etc for achievements. Do some old content, all without not feeling pushed into content or feel left behind.

For me atleast its day and night comparing SL with BFA and i found BFA a lot worse.

[kaminaris]

The biggest change i'm seeing is the time investment needed not to "lag behind", in BFA you "needed" to do pretty much all WQ's certain rep levels with certain factions (think the 15 ilvl steps with CoA for example), do all the daily jobs and then do islands untill your eyes bleed.

Needed between quotes since basicly you never needed to do all that stuff unless your in a top 20ish guild.

But SL is a lot lighter on the box ticks imho, The weekly souls / anima / covenant campaign for renown takes a few hours a week and thats basicly it with the stuff you "need" to do, to advance. Sure theres torghast, but as soon as you have the legendary (or legendaries) you want its basicly optional content for the collector. The maw you can mix max for (i think) 6 sockets, but with the lower socket value its feels a lot less mandatory than 8.3 sockets.

And after the renown stuff i can focus on stuff i want to do, not stuff i need to do. I can do some M+ with friends, can work on my cosmetic rewards, can go out and collect rares / treasures etc for achievements. Do some old content, all without not feeling pushed into content or feel left behind.

For me atleast its day and night comparing SL with BFA and i found BFA a lot worse.

What? Reps were useless in BfA. And you practically didn't lag behind just by doing one M+ and 3 islands a week. That was all to stay with curve.

[chronia]

What? Reps were useless in BfA. And you practically didn't lag behind just by doing one M+ and 3 islands a week. That was all to stay with curve.

I guess you didnt read my post, esp this line Needed between quotes since basicly you never needed to do all that stuff unless your in a top 20ish guild.

As thats kinda what i meant

With the added benefit that SL doesn't push you into unenjoyable content like islands (even a few a week was not enjoyable at all after the first few resets) and the likes just you keep a neck on a certain level or warfronts for a extra piece of loot

[Malania]

What? Reps were useless in BfA. And you practically didn't lag behind just by doing one M+ and 3 islands a week. That was all to stay with curve.

Multiple reps gated multiple levels of Pathfinder and your neck required as much Azerite as possible. Only doing 1 m+ and 3 islands would leave you at a disadvantage to anyone willing to grind more power than you were, this doesn't even take into account that Azerite armour needing certain neck levels to even activate it. Where as Anima is basically a cosmetic upgrade grind.

Try again.

[kaminaris]

Multiple reps gated multiple levels of Pathfinder and your neck required as much Azerite as possible. Only doing 1 m+ and 3 islands would leave you at a disadvantage to anyone willing to grind more power than you were, this doesn't even take into account that Azerite armour needing certain neck levels to even activate it. Where as Anima is basically a cosmetic upgrade grind.

Try again.

No, it was more than enough since vast majority of my AP came from M+, Raids and weekly chest. Yeah i did like islands but they were far from required because all content rewarded you AP. You just watched too many world first race streams.

[Dch48]

Overall, I'm liking it. I am going very slow though and am about 1/3 of the way through Ardenweald. I will say that I hated Maldraxxus and couldn't wait for it to be over. Bastion was okay and Ardenweald has a nicely developing storyline.

[Malania]

No, it was more than enough since vast majority of my AP came from M+, Raids and weekly chest. Yeah i did like islands but they were far from required because all content rewarded you AP. You just watched too many world first race streams.

I watched none. I never played in BfA. If I watched too many you were just lazy. Anything that is a direct increase to your stats that can be leveled without limit is going to invite people who do care about their personal performance to commit to it. It was a poor system in Legion and it got worse in BfA.

Honestly SL is the first expansion I've put any actual time investment in since MoP! From WoD to BfA I leveled to max to get the stories and then watched the rest of the expansions play out through youtube.

I'm having a blast.

[kaminaris]

I watched none. I never played in BfA. If I watched too many you were just lazy. Anything that is a direct increase to your stats that can be leveled without limit is going to invite people who do care about their personal performance to commit to it. It was a poor system in Legion and it got worse in BfA.

If you didn't play BfA why are you even spreading misinformation

[Kel_Sceptic]

No, it was more than enough since vast majority of my AP came from M+, Raids and weekly chest. Yeah i did like islands but they were far from required because all content rewarded you AP. You just watched too many world first race streams.

Dude, you are so full of it at every subject you are whining about. Alot of people are saying Legion and BFA was sh17 because we were forced to cross paths even if we didn't like to do it; we were forced to farm ap to stay on a floating point. From a PvP player's PoV, you HAD TO FARM AP to stay relevant and OFC you had to farm M+ and raids to get gear and essences.


Now, you keep repeating that actual looting system is garbage, but at the same time you:
1. you got 2 normal items from runing only 1 full run in CoN, that is 1 item every 5 bosses. even if one item was from this weekly quest 4xtimewalking or greater vault, it is still gear you obtained.

2. you got 6 heroic pieces out of 24 heroic boss kills. That is 1 piece every 4 boss killed. OR even if you got 1 item is the weekly quest that required 4xmythic done; and probably 1-2 out of the Great Vault but even so, it is still gear and you got it.


You are ilvl 205 and I am ilvl 196.
I've played 11days 7hours ot of a total 35 days since I hit lvl 60. You still don't hear me whine that gear is bad, gearing is shit, there is no rewarding in shadowlands.

Dunno what expectations you got there about gearing, but hell, getting 6 heroic items in 5 weeks, since leveling to 60, I'd say it shows there are not alot of problems with the gearing system in Shadowlands. Maybe just individuals's proplems because they got used to the gear showers they got in BFA.

[kaminaris]

Dude, you are so full of it at every subject you are whining about. Alot of people are saying Legion and BFA was sh17 because we were forced to cross paths even if we didn't like to do it; we were forced to farm ap to stay on a floating point. From a PvP player's PoV, you HAD TO FARM AP to stay relevant and OFC you had to farm M+ and raids to get gear and essences.


Now, you keep repeating that actual looting system is garbage, but at the same time you:
1. you got 2 normal items from runing only 1 full run in CoN, that is 1 item every 5 bosses. even if one item was from this weekly quest 4xtimewalking or greater vault, it is still gear you obtained.

2. you got 6 heroic pieces out of 24 heroic boss kills. That is 1 piece every 4 boss killed. OR even if you got 1 item is the weekly quest that required 4xmythic done; and probably 1-2 out of the Great Vault but even so, it is still gear and you got it.


You are ilvl 205 and I am ilvl 196.
I've played 11days 7hours ot of a total 35 days since I hit lvl 60. You still don't hear me whine that gear is bad, gearing is shit, there is no rewarding in shadowlands.

Dunno what expectations you got there about gearing, but hell, getting 6 heroic items in 5 weeks, since leveling to 60, I'd say it shows there are not alot of problems with the gearing system in Shadowlands. Maybe just individuals's proplems because they got used to the gear showers they got in BFA.

Dude, you are trying too hard. It's obvious people don't like this expansion because nothing matters anymore and you keep imagining things people never said.
Nobody was forced and that is a fact.

[Malania]

If you didn't play BfA why are you even spreading misinformation

No misinformation to spread. I played BfA for the first month at launch and capped as well as the final 6 weeks before SL and it's the same system as Legion which I did the same. I also kept up to date with the game via youtube by watching multiple wow channels.

It's problems were discussed to death over the life cycle enough for me to see the issues as well as the fact that I saw it at the start and end along with all the content in 1 condensed state.

I know for a fact you're wrong because I saw the multiple iterations trying to correct the Azerite system at the end of the game as well as the fact I had to grind pathfinding in a 6 week period and know it was rep gated. Rep grinding was required, just like artifact power azerite grinding was also required for any committed raider. I ended the expansion with a neck at like 87 and saw people with 150+. Now If I had just started the game and wished to take up raiding mid way through the game cycle whats my plan for catch up for someone with a 80 neck and me at 0? If a guild has the option who do they take?

Like I said, try again. Nobodies buying it.

[kaminaris]

No misinformation to spread. I played BfA for the first month at launch and capped as well as the final 6 weeks before SL and it's the same system as Legion which I did the same. I also kept up to date with the game via youtube by watching multiple wow channels.

It's problems were discussed to death of the life cycle enough for me to see the issues as well as the fact that I saw it at the start and end along with all the content in 1 condensed state.

I know for a fact you're wrong because I saw the multiple iterations trying to correct the Azerite system at the end of the game as well as the fact I had to grind pathfinding in a 6 week period and know it was rep gated. Rep grinding was required, just like artifact power azerite grinding was also required for any committed raider.

Like I said, try again. Nobodies buying it.

Yeah thats cool, 6 first weeks when everyone was doing stuff because its new. After that, not so much. So yeah its misinformation, still nobody was forced and at least it mattered something.

Now SL is so optional that you can op-out of playing at all.

[Kel_Sceptic]

Dude, you are trying too hard. It's obvious people don't like this expansion because nothing matters anymore and you keep imagining things people never said.
Nobody was forced and that is a fact.

I'm not trying anything dude, I just put out the way the game is, and for what kind of people. I didn't say gated is good or bad, cause some people may like it some may don't. But I'm outputing what the game has to offer, gated, no infinite grind, lower pvp ilvl then pve, how much time does it take to do the necesary stuff to do, stuff like that.


But the real fact is that you got 2 normal items from 10 boss kills and 6 heroic items out of 24 boss kills, and at the same time whining that there are horrible loot drops in raid and mythic+. That is clearly a fact and washes down all your credibility, no matter how hard you try to make the lood drops bad.