Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[Grapemask]

Jesus, are we hitting Concern Troll level 9 now, where now we're the bad guys for not being nice enough to the bad guys so they have a chance to not be bad guys?

For.

Fuck's.

Sake.

[Machismo]

But history won't repeat itself if you can convince them that they were bad and that they should better, etc.... Do you think you are achieving that ?

Once again, they have been given that evidence... they didn't care. When people support Nazis and misinformation... no amount of good information will sway them. If they act in bad faith, then there's no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

So, if you want to chat with Nazis, be my guest. Go have a chat with them, and tell me how it turns out.

As for me, I will be condemning them until the day I die. I will be ostracizing them, shaming them, and shunning them.

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Jesus, are we hitting Concern Troll level 9 now, where now we're the bad guys for not being nice enough to the bad guys so they have a chance to not be bad guys?

For.

Fuck's.

Sake.

"If you're not nice to the Nazis, the Nazis will never learn the error of their ways!!!"

[Kathranis]

So, more footage of airport arrests thanks to the no-fly lists is coming out.

Edit: Turns out this is actually from 2018. I'll leave it here regardless.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Emergency...63584708710401

This lovely gentleman resisting arrest by three officers and about to get maced point blank in the eyes tells you everything you need to know about the MAGA crowd: "You're treating me like a fuckin' black person!"

I know, amazing, right? He had the self-restraint to leave out the n-word. Must have realized he was on camera!

That sounds really fake. Or at least, indicative of such a shitty system that it beggars belief.

It's fake, post is by someone tech-illiterate who misunderstood what was happening. An archival team just scraped all the user uploaded content, which wasn't hosted securly and still contains EXIF data. Potentially all the posts, pictures, and videos, including stuff that was deleted.

They found that it was extremely insecure, and could see what users were mods and admins, but they didn't need to create admin accounts or anything like that. It was just a lot of stuff that the end-user wasn't supposed to access but which was still easily accessible.

[Machismo]

So, more footage of airport arrests thanks to the no-fly lists is coming out.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Emergency...63584708710401

This lovely gentleman resisting arrest by three officers and about to get maced point blank in the eyes tells you everything you need to know about the MAGA crowd: "You're treating me like a fuckin' black person!"

I know, amazing, right? He had the self-restraint to leave out the n-word. Must have realized he was on camera!




It's fake, post is by someone tech-illiterate who misunderstood what was happening. An archival team just scraped all the user uploaded content, which wasn't hosted securly and still contains EXIF data. Potentially all the posts, pictures, and videos, including stuff that was deleted.

They found that it was extremely insecure, and could see what users were mods and admins, but they didn't need to create admin accounts or anything like that. It was just a lot of stuff that the end-user wasn't supposed to access but which was still easily accessible.

Maybe he's just woke, and recognizes that there's systematic racism in law enforcement...

[Endus]

I don’t know either of you, but how does this help anyone? Asking as a European, so don’t really have a stake in this.

I mean, (former) trump supporters catch flack both for turning from him, and sticking with him. So if you know you’re gonna get shit on either way, best stick with the group that doesn’t, even if you don’t agree (anymore)

Always give your opponent an out. -tsun zu

This is giving them an out. It's offering them the opportunity to explain when and why their position changed, when they came to realize that they had always been wrong before. It's an expectation that they disavow those prior views after pushing them so hard, condemn what they used to stand for, and admit error.

Admitting that you were wrong is the first stage to redemption. Refusing to do so exposes that you're not interested in redemption, you're just interested in avoiding consequences. You want to continue holding your beliefs, but you want to lie about it, so you don't catch flak any more.

So that's the barrier. They've just got to openly admit they were wrong to support Trump. Not just now, back in 2016, and ever since, and wrong in every single comment made in the intervening years which supported him. It's not that hard to type out, if it's true.

But that's the sticking point, now isn't it?

[gondrin]

This is giving them an out. It's offering them the opportunity to explain when and why their position changed, when they came to realize that they had always been wrong before. It's an expectation that they disavow those prior views after pushing them so hard, condemn what they used to stand for, and admit error.

Admitting that you were wrong is the first stage to redemption. Refusing to do so exposes that you're not interested in redemption, you're just interested in avoiding consequences. You want to continue holding your beliefs, but you want to lie about it, so you don't catch flak any more.

So that's the barrier. They've just got to openly admit they were wrong to support Trump. Not just now, back in 2016, and ever since, and wrong in every single comment made in the intervening years which supported him. It's not that hard to type out, if it's true.

But that's the sticking point, now isn't it?

Honestly, the way they act should be taught in schools as textbook sunken cost fallacy.

[Rozz]

Isn't there some irony in complaining about the failure of Reconstruction due to its leniency, then asking Americans why they don't repeat that same mistake for this? I don't get it.

[gondrin]

It's not exactly the same situation. I don't think I need to get too deep into explaining why.

People who have actually done things need to be held accountable, but the whole, "If you voted Republican you're a Nazi and we're going to excise you all from society!" attitude isn't helping anyone.

The funny thing is, most people aren't saying that. Most people are stating those that were at the riot are going to be taken down one way or another(non-violently of course other then a LEO). Most of them being Trump supporters or Republicans is secondary. Now though, most Trump supporters can get kicked off of flights easily enough just by how they act in public even without the riot.

[gondrin]

This would have been kinda poetic, in a way.

https://thehill.com/homenews/533602-...ging-my-gun-to

Newly sworn in Republican House member after Capitol riot: 'I regret not bringing my gun to D.C.'

A Republican congressman from Michigan who was sworn in earlier this month said he feared for his life as supporters of President Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol and wishes he would have been carrying a firearm after seeing what took place.

"The illusion of security, of the sanctity of our constitutional order, collapsed. With guns drawn, police ordered us to evacuate, leading to chaos as we fled down corridors and into the tunnels beneath Capitol Hill. Several times our group of lawmakers found ourselves alone, with no police escort, fearful of what threats might lie around the next corner," Rep. Peter Meijer wrote in the Detroit News over the weekend. "I have been called a traitor more times than I can count. I regret not bringing my gun to D.C."

Meijer, who was elected to represent the west Michigan district seat previously occupied by Republican-turned-Independent Rep. Justin Amash, also said that his colleagues who have excused Trump's behavior since the election or given credence to his unproven claims of voter fraud are responsible for last week's violence.

"Blood has been spilled, and those who encouraged this insurrection are in too deep," Meijer wrote. "Those of us who refused to cower, who have told the truth, have suffered the consequences. Republican colleagues who have spoken out have been accosted on the street, received death threats, and even assigned armed security."

Following a rally on White House Ellipse on Wednesday, a pro-Trump mob stormed the Capitol as a joint session of Congress met inside to certify President-elect Joe Biden's Electoral College victory.

In a break with dozens of his fellow House Republicans, Meijer has acknowledged Biden's win.

As part of a series of tweets late Sunday evening, he called Trump's hesitation to condemn the rioters at the Capitol last week "unconscionable."

"I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that the President of the United States was completely MIA while the next three individuals in the line of succession (VP, Speaker of House, Senate Pres Pro Tempore) were under assault in the Capitol," he said.

Meijer, who rallied with Vice President Pence just days before his win in November, also said the Republican Party has an important choice to make about its identity in a post-Trump political world.

"It didn’t have to end like this, with five people dead, including a Capitol Police officer. This should be a moment of reckoning for the country as a whole, and the conservative movement in particular," he wrote in the op-ed. "If the Republican party ever hopes to regain the public’s trust and lead the country forward after this heinous assault, it must first be honest with itself."

[Thekri]

The funny thing is, most people aren't saying that. Most people are stating those that were at the riot are going to be taken down one way or another(non-violently of course other then a LEO). Most of them being Trump supporters or Republicans is secondary. Now though, most Trump supporters can get kicked off of flights easily enough just by how they act in public even without the riot.

Well, like everything, there is some nuance in who exactly gets criminal charges. As far as I am aware, the people that stayed outside the capital building didn't commit any crimes (Unless they did something other then just attend and yell hateful shit). Protesting, even if it is for something stupid and evil, is still legal.

I am reasonably confident that anyone that entered the capital committed a felony. Anyone that remained after curfew, or attacked an officer can be charged. Certainly some people can and will be charged with incitement. But we can't actually arrest everyone in the crowd. Some people might not have actually committed any crimes (Legally speaking. They are all terrible people, but you can't arrest them for that).

[wunksta]

QAnon congresswoman faces calls for arrest after live-tweeting Nancy Pelosi's location to rioters

https://www.rawstory.com/lauren-boebert-twitter/

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/st...98958900199429

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/st...11381878845442

[SirBeef]

This would have been kinda poetic, in a way.

https://thehill.com/homenews/533602-...ging-my-gun-to

Funny because this guy was sucking Trumos cock to get elected. After nearly 4 years of his BS hes shocked this happened. Fuck him.

[szechuan]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ht-clip-2021-1

[Veggie50]

He was given outs numerous times, he never took them. They've had 5 years to take an out, and instead of condemning Trump and his band of merry shitbirds, he's complaining about the symbolism in the article. Maybe people should be more concerned with having principles, than having a fear of admitting they were wrong.

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I have no desire to convince Trumpsters, they are not my target.

They are the example.

You realise your strategy only works if you can actually take them out of the equation right? As in, expell from the country, permanently incarcerate or outright kill.

As these are not options available to you, you’re basically beating a dog to teach it manners, regardless of what it does. It is liable to bite you...

Just saying... trumpsters generally don’t have a real strategy in life. Do you?

[Edge-]

Can I just say how all these videos of the domestic terrorists getting kicked off flights, crying in airports, or being forcefully dragged out by police are fueling me right now?

Because they're fueling me right now.

[Thekri]

I hate that lady, but this seems like a bit of a stretch. It's not like she was tracking Pelosi, and the fact that she was removed from the chamber wasn't some secret.

Doesn't seem like a stretch to me. I am usually highly skeptical of internet outrage, like Duckworth demanding Rep. Miller resign for saying "Hitler was right" because that is just stupid political clickbait, and is completely and totally out of context.

However, this case is very different, and it looks really damn criminal to me. "Today is 1776" when the context is a large and angry mob surrounding the capital is hard to interpret as anything other then a call for violent revolution. Tweeting about the evacuation of the House Majority Leader in real time, when the evacuation is being caused by the exact people that read your tweets? I mean come on man, this is pretty blatant shit. Either tweet in isolation is legitimate grounds for expulsion. Both in combination seems like a solid case for criminal charges.

Imagine if someone was tweeting (AOL Messaging?) the location of President Bush or VP Cheney during 9/11? Now imagine that person posted something like "Remember 1948!" earlier in the day, and also that person was a member of the Saudi or Egyptian government?

[Machismo]

You realise your strategy only works if you can actually take them out of the equation right? As in, expell from the country, permanently incarcerate or outright kill.

As these are not options available to you, you’re basically beating a dog to teach it manners, regardless of what it does. It is liable to bite you...

Just saying... trumpsters generally don’t have a real strategy in life. Do you?

Not at all... social ostracization works... just look at Parler right now. It wasn't killed, forced out of the country, or incarcerated. People simply opted to not do business with them, and Parler went to shit in a day.

I can choose where I spend my money, and starve them out.

I can choose with whom I associate, and not allow them in my inner circle. My mother will never live to see her grandchildren in person again. That is a choice I have made, due to her beliefs.

None of this requires an ounce of force, merely some discipline. I'm not beating anything, I'm calling Nazi out for what they are, and not letting them try and lie about the last 5 years.

Or, should we not teach that Nazis are bad?

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https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ht-clip-2021-1

Why does Fox News have capitalism so fucking much?

[Timester]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ht-clip-2021-1

A Nazi defender calling the tech industry literal Nazis...

The level of deflection is amazing.

[Edge-]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ht-clip-2021-1

"Said 'Judge' Jeanine Piro from her nationally televised weekend TV show on the largest cable news network in the United States."

I literally just want to shake these people until you can shake some sense into them or you so thoroughly scramble their brains they just shut the fuck up.

[Thekri]

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...ht-clip-2021-1

Rhetoric based on pure ignorance is designed to appeal to the ignorant, and it just looks ridiculous to everyone else.

The very concept here is both hilarious and inconsistent. "Corporate censorship" is just businesses deciding who they want to deal with. If Walmart refuses to carry my "Edible Truck Nuts" product idea, that isn't censorship, they just think that it isn't a product worth selling. Maybe they are opposed to it on moral grounds, maybe they think it will lose money, maybe they just don't like me. They don't actually have to give a reason why they don't want to deal with me. They don't even have to return my emails.

This is the same shit. Amazon doesn't want Parlor on its servers, and apparently Parlor didn't have a strong enough contract to prevent them from getting thrown off (Amazon likely decided to pay to break the contract). Because their product is much worse after it was used to plan an attack on the US Capital. It is like American Airlines banning boxcutters and knifes on airplanes after 9/11. It isn't censorship, they just figured out that it isn't a good thing to allow.