Has Elon Musk revived interest in space? Are we on the cusp of a new space age?

[Logwyn]

Sure...but it's not like Countries have a great track record when it comes to exploring new territory either...

Nowhere did I state they did.

[cubby]

I'm sure from some peoples perspective that will be an accomplishment. I dunno if elon musk's twitter even counts as a source these days as the man isn't particularly reliable on there but that is where he said he planned to offer loans.

Indentured Servitude to colonize Mars? I think at this point people would see through that. But I can also see the transport being set up in a complicated financial situation where someone/something pays for those people to go, with the beneficiary being SpaceX/Musk.

It can be both but if it is a private interest profit is almost always going to trump knowledge. Oh cool this asteroid is covered in amino acids but is also chock full of expensive space rocks, how long do you think they'll study the surface before exploding it for expensive space rocks. Profit already trumps quality of life, hell it might even trump life itself in space.

You can legislate so private companies have to investigate possible life/etc first, before exploiting. Humans have been doing that sort of thing for millennia, vis a vis a ship's captain and an owner's represented (loose analogy there, I know).

Wow it's funny how when they actually put money, resources and effort into space travel we get results. And when you cut budgets things slow to a snails pace. It's not really fair to compare NASA's progress when they've been slowly hung out to dry since the moon landing. I'm pretty sure Reagan was the only president since JFK to increase the budget of nasa.

NASA has actually had plenty of funding through the past few decades. Even when Presidents have tried to cut the budget, Congress just ignores and continues to fund. If @Skroe were here, he would give you the full spiel.

However, even with continued funding, NASA just sucks ass at moving quickly. Their version of the "return to space and beyond" rocket just had it's first test firing in four years, and it failed, and now their unmanned (and broken) moon orbit module isn't going to launch until at least 2022.
After a decade, NASA’s big rocket fails its first real test

Don't get me wrong, I love NASA, but compared to private companies like SpaceX, they are tremendously wasteful.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is planning 50 launches next year, along with getting Starship (their THIRD launch platform) into space AND then carrying it's first payload. Compared to private companies, NASA just sucks at getting things done fast.

Do you want our species to survive even if that means the many are enslaved or controlled by the few? The resource scarcity that drives this shit on our planet will be worse in space. I don't think ruthless capitalism is the economic system that is going to result in humanities best hopes in space. I'm not really sure musk is doing this for humanity, he is for sure doing this for himself first humanity maybe second, and that's being very generous.

Yes. First of all, that's almost certainly the case right now. 10 people have more wealth than the poorest 4 billion. So we're already living in the world you just described. Moreover, I want our species to survive FIRST, with everything else being secondary.

We need to actually sort out things like poverty and the cultural attitudes that lead to it otherwise space travel is just going to be miserable and we are going to just project our problems into space where they are worse and much harder to manage.

We do, but as my pet friendly friends are fond of saying, we don't have to choose - we can do both. SpaceX only took about $20B in funding so far to do what they've done. IMO that's money well spent.

[Burgerberg]

Lol, I guess all those cities and countries that are working on Hyperloop projects don't think it's feasible either, eh? You fucking Haters are hysterical in your reality denial. Way to stick to your guns, despite facts to the contrary.

India, a place you lauded time and time again are likely to scrap their project for reasons that have been explained to you.... there's a dose of reality for you. There's a reason why there's no functioning Hyperloop in any city or country, despite the best part of a decade being hyped up. People like you lap this shit up, the kind of people who have no background in engineering or economics. You've already been told by scientifically sound minds why it won't work. The best the Hyperloop have to show is a rickety test run with two passengers.

Notoriously expensive with safety concerns, expressed by these professionals. Going to call these experts haters too? Go with a bullet train instead, or the train systems Japan are using atm, you'll save a lot more money for a concept that actually works.

Dunno why you're so defensive here. It is because Elon Musk popularised the idea, and everything that critiques that is some kind of heresy to you? I wonder if you'd actually be so committed to defending a flawed concept if he wasn't......

[Egomaniac]

Nowhere did I state they did.

I didn't say you did.

I am saying that everything you said about private companies can just as easily be applied to countries.

[Fargus]

Someone slept through their logic course at school. You don't even know that a question can be an argument, and you're still trying to pretend you know what Sagan would think, and you're doing it in the dumbest way possible. The only thing we're sure of is Sagan would be very disappointed in you.

Yes, that someone is you. I think you should change your avatar because you're beginning to sound like him.

[jonnysensible]

cubby lining up to be a mars serf

[JohnBrown1917]

India, a place you lauded time and time again are likely to scrap their project for reasons that have been explained to you.... there's a dose of reality for you. There's a reason why there's no functioning Hyperloop in any city or country, despite the best part of a decade being hyped up. People like you lap this shit up, the kind of people who have no background in engineering or economics. You've already been told by scientifically sound minds why it won't work. The best the Hyperloop have to show is a rickety test run with two passengers.

Notoriously expensive with safety concerns, expressed by these professionals. Going to call these experts haters too? Go with a bullet train instead, or the train systems Japan are using atm, you'll save a lot more money for a concept that actually works.

Dunno why you're so defensive here. It is because Elon Musk popularised the idea, and everything that critiques that is some kind of heresy to you? I wonder if you'd actually be so committed to defending a flawed concept if he wasn't......

The benefit of bullet trains is also that they can carry a ton of people.

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I didn't say you did.

I am saying that everything you said about private companies can just as easily be applied to countries.

Atleast in a democratic country you can change its policies if enough people support it.

[Egomaniac]

At least in a democratic country you can change its policies if enough people support it.

"Change" does not necessarily mean "improve"

[JohnBrown1917]

"Change" does not necessarily mean "improve"

Does not change my point.

[cubby]

India, a place you lauded time and time again are likely to scrap their project for reasons that have been explained to you.... there's a dose of reality for you. There's a reason why there's no functioning Hyperloop in any city or country, despite the best part of a decade being hyped up. People like you lap this shit up, the kind of people who have no background in engineering or economics. You've already been told by scientifically sound minds why it won't work. The best the Hyperloop have to show is a rickety test run with two passengers.

Jesus you suck at this - you didn't even read the article past the point that fulfills your echo chamber. The project is "being scrapped" because of COVID:

In the present Covid times, there is a need to maintain social distance everywhere. It applies to even Metro. Against this backdrop, projects like Hyperloop are unlikely to gain any momentum,” said another senior official.

So what were those engineering concerns again?

And, you've already been told, many times, that the Hyperloop is a viable project, by dozens of people, cities, countries, engineers, and project planners. It's super neat that you think the project feasibility is a binary situation - it's not. You should digest that before moving on, this isn't going to get any better for you.

Notoriously expensive with safety concerns, expressed by these professionals. Going to call these experts haters too? Go with a bullet train instead, or the train systems Japan are using atm, you'll save a lot more money for a concept that actually works.

No, they aren't haters - they are professionals with legitimate concerns about aspects of the overall Hyperloop project. I've been very clear that there are issues with the project - never have I denied that. That being said, YOU'RE the hater - ignoring facts and reality, seeking out singular articles that fill your echo chamber instead of looking at the overall situation and realizing that you might, just maybe, be wrong. But of course you'll never, EVER, acknowledge that - because you're essentially a cult hater.

Dunno why you're so defensive here. It is because Elon Musk popularised the idea, and everything that critiques that is some kind of heresy to you? I wonder if you'd actually be so committed to defending a flawed concept if he wasn't......

Nothing to be defensive about, dunno why you think I am. For me it's a matter of pointing out people's biases when it comes to Elon Musk projects. People like you ignore reality and decry things you clearly don't understand out of some singular need to hate on people that have achieved great things.

Why are you so intellectually dishonest?

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cubby lining up to be a mars serf

Right? Who wouldn't sign up for that shit? Sucking in under-oxygenated air, poor food, no chance at returning to Earth, AND a highly compressed mortality. Sign me the fuck up!

[Easo]

In the meantime I am waiting for SN-9 launch, should happen within a week. If landing will be successful at least some people will be... unhappy.

India, a place you lauded time and time again are......

To be fair any kind of major project in India is likely to encounter problems, no matter how feasible it is. You should take a look at their army equipment development or procurements, it is always endless saga.

[cubby]

In the meantime I am waiting for SN-9 launch, should happen within a weak. If landing will be successful at least some people will be... unhappy.

It's amazing what success brings out in people not involved in it's fabrication. That SN-9 launch CANNOT happen soon enough for me. If they stick that landing....

Did you see what happened with NASA's engine test fire? Whoops. Don't get me wrong, I want them to succeed - I want everyone headed to space to succeed. But holy cow do they suck at meeting any kind of reasonable timeframe.

[Logwyn]

I didn't say you did.

I am saying that everything you said about private companies can just as easily be applied to countries.

Hmmm. Seems like they are more or less one in the same!

[JohnBrown1917]

India, a place you lauded time and time again are likely to scrap their project for reasons that have been explained to you.... there's a dose of reality for you. There's a reason why there's no functioning Hyperloop in any city or country, despite the best part of a decade being hyped up. People like you lap this shit up, the kind of people who have no background in engineering or economics. You've already been told by scientifically sound minds why it won't work. The best the Hyperloop have to show is a rickety test run with two passengers.

Notoriously expensive with safety concerns, expressed by these professionals. Going to call these experts haters too? Go with a bullet train instead, or the train systems Japan are using atm, you'll save a lot more money for a concept that actually works.

Dunno why you're so defensive here. It is because Elon Musk popularised the idea, and everything that critiques that is some kind of heresy to you? I wonder if you'd actually be so committed to defending a flawed concept if he wasn't......

https://twitter.com/BethLynch2020/st...580456963?s=20

And somehow people still believe this idiot knows anything about engineering. From his stupid rescue sub to this sort of shit.

[cubby]

https://twitter.com/BethLynch2020/st...580456963?s=20

And somehow people still believe this idiot knows anything about engineering. From his stupid rescue sub to this sort of shit.

It's beyond adorable who you're citing (do you even know?).... I mean, the Hater's Gotta Hate club just gets more and more hysterical (both uses of the word). Holy fuck does your club SUCK at this kind of thing.

Who is she?
What are her credentials?
Is LOOTING WALMART her only goal?

[Elegiac]

It's beyond adorable who you're citing (do you even know?).... I mean, the Hater's Gotta Hate club just gets more and more hysterical (both uses of the word). Holy fuck does your club SUCK at this kind of thing.

Not actually seeing any disputation of the fact Musk did in fact say this moronic thing about Miami. Especially since it's totally on brand for tech bros to propose something like that which ends up retaining the same set of problems as before (private vehicles being both inefficient and environmentally disastrous) while creating a whole host of new complications and costing the government a lot of money in the process that could have been spent on solutions that are actually known to work like used to service Miami and Los Angeles before private car ownership became normalized and encouraged.

This is why every couple of years Musk seems to come out with a new design concept that, once it's actually brought down to a practical level, ends up looking suspiciously like existing concepts just without any government accountability and catering specifically to the tech fantasies of upper middle class investors with names like "UrbanLoop™" instead of "subway", rofl.

It's the Todd Howard model for startup projects in that even when it isn't Skyrim, it's still Skyrim.

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And, you've already been told, many times, that the Hyperloop is a viable project, by dozens of people, cities, countries, engineers, and project planners.

We were told a lot of shit by a whole lot of people about personal carbon footprints too, but at the end of the day that was also just a private sector scam to try and fob off responsibility for paying taxes for basic services.

Same thing with Fruitloop or w/e it's called. It's primarily a vehicle for Musk and his friends to fleece investors by leveraging their latent NIMBYism all the while avoiding paying the taxes that would fund existing public transport schemes, same as with every other major company's busing and rideshare programs.

[cubby]

Not actually seeing any disputation of the fact Musk did in fact say this moronic thing about Miami. Especially since it's totally on brand for tech bros to propose something like that which ends up retaining the same set of problems as before (private vehicles being both inefficient and environmentally disastrous) while creating a whole host of new complications and costing the government a lot of money in the process that could have been spent on solutions that are actually known to work like used to service Miami and Los Angeles before private car ownership became normalized and encouraged.

This is why every couple of years Musk seems to come out with a new design concept that, once it's actually brought down to a practical level, ends up looking suspiciously like existing concepts just without any government accountability and catering specifically to the tech fantasies of upper middle class investors with names like "UrbanLoop™" instead of "subway", rofl.

Who was being cited for that Miami tweet quote? Do you know? I sure don't. I have no way to tell if anything that person said (in a tweet, for fuck's sake) is even remotely true, and given her other information pieces in her feed, I'm surprised she can even feed herself.

For the record - of course there will be issues and problems with the Hyperloop. Just in case anyone *feels* I believe differently.

But these idiotic Haters Club Founding Members cite the dumbest fucking people and make the worse leaps in conclusions. This tweeter might be right and might not be. Musk may be right (re Miami) or may not. But if you had to OBJECTIVELY pick one or the other, I'm going with the guy who built up three separate billion dollar companies and got into Standford's energy physics/materials science PhD program over the tweeter who wants to "loot all Walmarts".

Can you seriously say you would do otherwise?

And that is my problem with these Haters Gonna Hate people. Their arguments and points don't make any sense, and are at times embarrassingly stupid. I don't doubt the faults with Musk as a whole and the Hyperloop in specific, and I'm open to discussing those issues with sane people - like yourself Elegiac. But the Hater Club peeps aren't even trying, and embarrass themselves with every post in which they desperately prove they can never admit they're wrong.

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Same thing with Fruitloop or w/e it's called. It's primarily a vehicle for Musk and his friends to fleece investors by leveraging their latent NIMBYism all the while avoiding paying the taxes that would fund existing public transport schemes, same as with every other major company's busing and rideshare programs.

How do you know that? Where is your evidence? Show me something and we'll talk.

(people have already linked legitimate concerns with the Hyperloop, and I've admitted them, in this thread and others - just to be clear. so bring something we can talk about, but just making claims without support doesn't fly at all)

[Elegiac]

Can you seriously say you would do otherwise?

Yep; I'd be skeptical of both because I'm not of the opinion that the trappings of power detract from someone's personal stupidity or penchant for grift. People fawning over Musk seem to have forgotten that.

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How do you know that? Where is your evidence? Show me something and we'll talk.

(people have already linked legitimate concerns with the Hyperloop, and I've admitted them, in this thread and others - just to be clear. so bring something we can talk about, but just making claims without support doesn't fly at all)

I'm talking about those aforementioned concerns which have still not gone away, the lack of a counter argument just seems to have been replaced with "Ha see now we need social distancing, so Musk was right all along!" as if public transportation hasn't had to survive through epidemics before.

[cubby]

Yep; I'd be skeptical of both because I'm not of the opinion that the trappings of power detract from someone's personal stupidity or penchant for grift. People fawning over Musk seem to have forgotten that.

Interesting. So you would take the word of someone without any known knowledge of science over someone steeped in it? Just want to be clear here.

I'm talking about those aforementioned concerns which have still not gone away, the lack of a counter argument just seems to have been replaced with "Ha see now we need social distancing, so Musk was right all along!" as if public transportation hasn't had to survive through epidemics before.

What hasn't gone away? Which concerns? I know there are some engineering issues as well as the socio-economic problem of funding, etc. But they also just did a successful (but not full speed) test run, and many projects are moving forward. Have any been canceled due to overwhelming engineering issues?

[Elegiac]

Interesting. So you would take the word of someone without any known knowledge of science over someone steeped in it? Just want to be clear here.

Didn't say "over", I said "fuck them both for being clowns, I will get my information elsewhere".

What hasn't gone away? Which concerns? I know there are some engineering issues as well as the socio-economic problem of funding, etc. But they also just did a successful (but not full speed) test run, and many projects are moving forward. Have any been canceled due to overwhelming engineering issues?

For the last time Cubby, no one gives a fuck about the engineering challenges or the hurdles overcome in the Fruitloop design procees besides people that are avid fans of that sort of thing.

And that's entirely the point. It's novel, it's glamorous, pay no attention to the fact that it is and continues to be a program geared and marketed primarily towards upper middle class white people in tech hubs as a way to enjoy the benefits of public transport without having to sit next to the poors, and that the money wasted on Fruitloop could be spent on other methods of transportation that the poorest citizens will be able to use as the default, not just people who are insufficiently senior at their startups to telecommute.

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Americans will literally waste billions of dollars trying to prove that hating poor people and having functional public transportation aren't mutually exclusive than go to therapy. /s