I think wow would be better without a weekly chest.

[unfilteredJW]

Your trying to be witty but you don't really have a strong enough grasp of the topic for it. Please stop.

This coming from you is fucking amazing.

[Nynax]

I never understood why it rewarded M+ trash with item levels way above normal raid gear. I mean I just did a +6 and now I'm getting a 210 ilvl piece of gear this Tuesday? Like, why? That +6 was ridiculously easy.

it's a way for casual raid guilds to very slowly over gear normal/heroic raids so that they can eventually clear it, without M+ ever overtaking Mythic Raids as the best loot. Ever since M+ and weekly chests inception in Legion, its had a sub purpose of serving as a raid tier nerf in place of the literal nerfs Blizz used to do. As long as you've been around and playing endgame stuff anyone can eventually gear up enough to get Cutting Edge easily enough before new content drops.

[Zig Zug]

If you can’t find a good guild it is because you are bad.

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Maybe, if that's the limit of your perception.

What's a good guild?

[keldarepewpew]

Vault “configured” this way came at the “no loot in regular M+” price.

From my pov it’s worse. It does not mean that it has to be worse for everyone, but for my playstyle it is indeed: I get less loot doing more things than before.

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As I said the problem is that this “more control” came at the “in exchange you’ll be doomed to run dungeons without rewards” price.

That, AGAIN FROM MY POV, is worse than BfA where the more dungeon I ran the quicker I geared up.

It’s ok anyways because I run them for the sake of having fun but looking only at the gear side, it’s not an improvement by any meaning.

The nerf to mythic plus gearing was coming either way the vaulth isn't the reason for it.

[Relapses]

This system is better but without a more deterministic way for people to get loot it can feel unjustly punitive if you have poor luck (or simply do not have the time to fill out all of the options). Personally, I think loot is perfect the way it is currently but I feel like Blizzard is likely to add some type of slightly more deterministic loot acquisition in the coming patches. The most likely option is a system similar to how PvP gear currently works, just with a PvE currency instead (ie, Titan Residuum from 8.1+).

[TrollHunter3000]

I understand the point of the chest is to act as a weekly nerf by letting players recieve rewards past their current difficulty level. I just think this knee jerk reaction blizzard has to soft nerfing content isn't really as sustainable as letting people simply progress.

It just seems the complete "x" a week isn't really a positive direction to take the game in.

What? That's not even true. You can't get 226 gear without killing bosses that drop 226 gear or being at a pvp rating that allows you to upgrade gear to 226. The only exception is mythic+ but that's just because the gear is capped so people can't grind the fuck out of it but you're going to have a hard time doing 14+ if you aren't capable of doing mythic raids anyway. (in the sense of ability some people don't like committing to a raid guild though). Either way, if they're not doing that content then it isn't a "soft nerf" to that content for them and if they are then they're getting 226 gear anyway.

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Great Vault brought me more frustation with it than without it. Rather having no loot than fish loot

Then just don't do it. Problem solved.

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Yes, how dare someone want their loot that they received for their time and effort. What an unreasonable way to think!

What's next, people wanting the paycheck from their work week? Just think of how much that money could do for the company you work for!

Except they didn't receive it just for their time and effort. You get 4 pieces of loot in mythic and there's 20 players. You got it with all 20 of those people's time and effort. Comparing that to a literal job is fucking retarded. Or would you be okay with every pay period they just pick 20% of the workers at random to pay each time? Be kinda fucked up.

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To be fair its much closer to a cafe that splits the tips evenly at the end of the day for the better of everyone (in theory) vs keeping your own tips, however, i agree with what you are saying. I dont mind trading the odd piece of loot to a guildy who is falling behind, or if i have managed to aquire some really strong loot and dont really "need" an item - sometimes it is better for me to give another player an item, as it will increase the raids overall performance by more, and allow us to kill more bosses. Sure, one item doesnt make a huge difference, but over a few weeks it adds up.

Only time i wont trade loot is if some raid logger falls behind on loot then starts begging for drops. Thankfuly not an issue with my guild, but have seen it before.

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The discussion is about the vault, not reward from raids/dungeons.

For example, a +2 awards a 187ilvl at end of dungeon. However, the great vault will reward a 200ilvl. 200ilvl loot comes from a +7. Hope that clears it up for you.

They'll likely eventually raise the cap on the dungeons anyway. Not sure if it'll be during the current tier but I wouldn't be surprised. They just didn't want people being able to completely outgear raids by doing dungeons.

[schwarzkopf]

Great Vault brought me more frustation with it than without it. Rather having no loot than fish loot

I'm not sure how it can be rational to find NOT having it is better than having it and choosing not to use it.

Having the end of week box is by definition better than not having it - because the former is a superset of the latter.

[Merlunie]

Maybe, if that's the limit of your perception.

What's a good guild?

By your own standards, one that spreads loot out instead of selecting their buddies to get all the loot.

[exsanguinate]

Then just don't do it. Problem solved.

I don't think you understand the psychological aspect of it. It is still a chance to get something you might need, but most likely not realize it, which only leads to disappointment and wishing you hadn't done it. Gambling works in a similar way, just by the way.

But mmo champion swears by "just don't do it". It is the easiest argument when you are not the brightest

[TrollHunter3000]

I don't think you understand the psychological aspect of it. It is still a chance to get something you might need, but most likely not realize it, which only leads to disappointment and wishing you hadn't done it. Gambling works in a similar way, just by the way.

But mmo champion swears by "just don't do it". It is the easiest argument when you are not the brightest

Sounds like a self created problem. I don't even do a mythic 14+ every week for the extra 226 option since I started getting 2 226 options from raiding alone. Sometimes I do but I don't go out of my way for it and when I do and it gives me a shitty option I don't think "I shouldn't have wasted 30 minutes doing that!!!11!!" People like you act like the game isn't enjoyable and it's a chore to do all this shit for get gear. Maybe you should just play a different fucking game if you don't like it so much. Taking away optional things that a lot of people like is fucking dumb. Just don't do it. It's the easiest argument because it's the only logical argument.

[A Blue Smurf]

Personally I think it's a step in the right direction and it should be expanded to all types of content with varying degrees of quantity required to unlock the reward.

Expand it to WQs, Torghast etc etc, but keep the system the same.
Ie Complete 20/50/100 WQs
Complete 1/3/8 Layers of Twisting Corridors

However I believe there still needs to be a accumulative "Bad Luck" protection in the form of currency / badges.
Badges worked well imho because as people were able to gather more of them and there were more tiers released you can expand upon options by increasing item cost in relation to ilvl.
This way it's a choice, progress quickly but with smaller jumps or slowly with large jumps in ilvl.

[dadoodoo]

Personally I think it's a step in the right direction and it should be expanded to all types of content with varying degrees of quantity required to unlock the reward.

Expand it to WQs, Torghast etc etc, but keep the system the same.
Ie Complete 20/50/100 WQs
Complete 1/3/8 Layers of Twisting Corridors

However I believe there still needs to be a accumulative "Bad Luck" protection in the form of currency / badges.
Badges worked well imho because as people were able to gather more of them and there were more tiers released you can expand upon options by increasing item cost in relation to ilvl.
This way it's a choice, progress quickly but with smaller jumps or slowly with large jumps in ilvl.

Problem is you miss the point of the catchup systems making the entire game null, void and pointless.

Why work towards all them weekly vaults when in a couple of months if your not putting effort into the game once more the new players that are just logging in for the first time are getting handouts of items above what you worked so hard for and then you have to do it again, what for?

It is just an endless recycling excuse loop to meet up with your online friends with no reason in the actual playing of the game to really care or try in the content you are doing, its just all one big excuse to mask the reason you log in, to socialise.

ofc free handouts of the very top possible gear are going to go down fantastic with everyone. just adds to the illusion that your playing the game for a reason other than the reason your actually playing the game for, social reasons.

the game isnt played to be good anymore. its played so you can flex with your buddies "look what i got" to which they reply "omg i hate you" or "wow congrats"

I remember when the game had depth, take resto druid:

Then:
8% haste 4th rejuv
9.5% extra lifebloom tick
11.4% haste 5 regrowth tick
15% haste 5 rejuv ticks
17% extra lifebloom tick
21% 6 regrowth tick
27% 6 rejuv
31% extra lifebloom tick
while balancing spirt intellect and other stats you would have to decide which breakpoint to get inline with.

now:
equip highest ilvl.

[chiddie]

What you're saying makes no sense at all. Even if I try to guess what you're trying to say, all I can gather is that you're complaining about the amount of loot?

You said that in BfA upgrades were so many because they were meaningless. This is only partially true. When you were in the process of progressing, at least till 10-11+, almost every piece you got from every key was un upgrade. Probably not the best and not with optimal sub statistics but if it was 5 or + ilvl above the one you had currently equipped, it was a good upgrade anyways.

Now you don’t have these pieces anymore, all you can do is rely on the weekly vault.

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The nerf to mythic plus gearing was coming either way the vaulth isn't the reason for it.

Whatever the real reason, for me they nerfed it too much.

[Lolites]

Vault “configured” this way came at the “no loot in regular M+” price.

eh... no? that is simply incorrect...
as i (and blizzard "lead" employees, repeatedly) said the lower loot chance is bcs of TF removal...
loot drops would remain the same (or at best would be SLIGHTLY higher) even if the weekly chest remained the same, or if it would be completely removed, whole change to loot drop rates was to slow down gearing, without vault/weekly chest they wouldnt increase it, that would fight against their very own design...

why people keep saying vault is reason why loot drops are scarece, even though it makes no sense and literaly the guys behind decisions explained it is beyond me...

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Until you reach a certain level, every +5+ ilvl piece is a HUGE upgrade regardless the secondary stats or it being a BiS.

We passed from being submerged by loot, even not optimal but sorta of upgrades, to 1 piece per week, without even have the 100% chance that it’s a BiS.

thats disingenuous, even with current system until you reach certain level reward from vault is certain upgrade as it was before (except perhaps trinkets nad rings, AS IT WAS BEFORE)... sure loot from M+ itself is more rare, but so is from all other endgame, as said before thats separate issue...
and basicaly, if you only do single M+ a week and nothing else the weekly "chest" didnt change for you at all from BFA... and if you play more you are rewarded with more oprions, as it SHOULD BE...

[A Blue Smurf]

Problem is you miss the point of the catchup systems making the entire game null, void and pointless.

Why work towards all them weekly vaults when in a couple of months if your not putting effort into the game once more the new players that are just logging in for the first time are getting handouts of items above what you worked so hard for and then you have to do it again, what for?

It is just an endless recycling excuse loop to meet up with your online friends with no reason in the actual playing of the game to really care or try in the content you are doing, its just all one big excuse to mask the reason you log in, to socialise.

ofc free handouts of the very top possible gear are going to go down fantastic with everyone. just adds to the illusion that your playing the game for a reason other than the reason your actually playing the game for, social reasons.

the game isnt played to be good anymore. its played so you can flex with your buddies "look what i got" to which they reply "omg i hate you" or "wow congrats"

I remember when the game had depth, take resto druid:

Then:
8% haste 4th rejuv
9.5% extra lifebloom tick
11.4% haste 5 regrowth tick
15% haste 5 rejuv ticks
17% extra lifebloom tick
21% 6 regrowth tick
27% 6 rejuv
31% extra lifebloom tick
while balancing spirt intellect and other stats you would have to decide which breakpoint to get inline with.

now:
equip highest ilvl.

It's my belief all of that is more or less the result of the loss of progressive tiers and 'play the patch' mentalities.

If you had a comprehensive system for gearing and bad luck protection in the vein of what I said in combination with a progressive tier system there is no need for dramatic catch up systems as the tier progression introduces options for it within the base model.
Your efforts are not null and voided with each patch and new players are assisted with progression with extra, better options with the trade off of a higher cost. Existing players are rewarded with currency they can use to flesh out off-specs or fill-in gear gaps as a result of crappy RNG or stockpile it to get an early start on the next tier.

Nothing is ever irrelevant, nor out of reach (until you hit your skill-cap).

However I do 100% agree on your stats comment, there is no stat depth anymore. The argument used to be that people would just sim the best stats and gear... Well that's still the case and we've gone from an assortment of primary stats that were all relevant and had their own benefits and trade offs with a dozen accompanying secondary stats.

Now we have no primary stats, 4 secondary stats and an handful of arguably irrelevant tertiary stats yet the sims are still king.

[Lolites]

I never understood why it rewarded M+ trash with item levels way above normal raid gear. I mean I just did a +6 and now I'm getting a 210 ilvl piece of gear this Tuesday? Like, why? That +6 was ridiculously easy.

unlike normal raid which is soooo difficult... for people after lobotomy
jeez even HC raid is easily pugable pretty early on, not usualy week 1, but not bcs it would be difficult but you actualy need som gear to pass dps check
dont even try to pretend that any raiding except mythic is actualy difficult, it just shows you have no idea

[Devilyaki]

Since when has it gave items better than what you do. I do the three lfr bosses and it gives me an lfr item??

[gutnbrg]

where is the weekly chest located?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Since when has it gave items better than what you do. I do the three lfr bosses and it gives me an lfr item??

It's the usual bitching about m+, ignoring that works like this because Blizzard has (decided) to hard cap the maximum iLvl below other sources of similar difficulty so that you rely on getting actual upgrades from the chest.

[Xires]

How do you acquire rewards past your difficulty level?

I kill bosses in HC, I get loot from HC. I kill bosses in Mythic, and I get loot from Mythic.

I complete a +2 dungeon, and I get loot for that, or i complete a +10 and get loot for a +10.

How do you get stuff past your difficulty?

I think he means how the loot in the weekly vault is higher then what you did. Example...the loot that drops from a 10 vs what you get in your weekly for the effort.

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The target Reward for a +2 dungeon is still set to Ilvl 200, its not "Above the Difficulty".

+15 and above dungeons are meant as 5man Equivalent to Mythic raids, and they reward the same Gear in the Weekly Chest.

Mythic+ Dungeons drop in the End of Dungeon Chest loot below their Difficulty Level, because you can get Items every run you do.

+15's are not meant as an equivalent to mythic raids in terms of difficulty by any means. But the choice you get from the weekly vault is 226 ilvl. But the two ate not equivalent in difficulty at all.